gaunlet = worse inherit in game..half the time it doesnt work and the other time its broke.
best thing to do is forget that gaunlet exsist
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gaunlet = worse inherit in game..half the time it doesnt work and the other time its broke.
best thing to do is forget that gaunlet exsist
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but other ATs have inherents that are noticeable, like Containment and Fury. shouldn't all the ATs have inherents that benefit you in some way?
and you say that is works sometime? what does it do?
Can of worms... opened.
Gauntlet has a splash taunt effect (of the radius shown in real numbers or CoD) that can hit up to 5 targets. It can help (despite aggro auras) because it may hit targets not currently covered by your auras, and for targets already taunted the splash taunt will add a bit of threat as well.
That said...
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gaunlet = worse inherit in game.
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Yeah, it's not impressive at all. Some radii are prohibitively small, it has a tohit check, and is generally a wash compared to aggro auras, AoEs, and Taunt (the power). It's just a minor perk you'll likely never notice.
Gauntlet, the power, is just a placeholder. The Taunt effect in all Tanker attacks IS Gauntlet.
Gauntlet isn't really useful to the Tanker himself, but it is useful to the team. While solo, Gauntlet isn't really an advantage, and can actually attract unintended attention unless you take into consideration its effect.
Honestly, though, I like this. I like the feeling that I'm a loud, boisterous superhero who goes stomping through the mission yelling, "Hey, bad guys! Come and get your beat down!"
I'll add that when Gauntlet was introduced, Tankers also got a 10% damage boost. This was not tied to Gauntlet, but it was definately part of the revamp of the AT that Gauntlet was meant to address. The concept of Fury also originated with Tankers, but it would found to be too overpowered unless the character had reduced defenses, as Brutes do.
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Gauntlet, the power, is just a placeholder. The Taunt effect in all Tanker attacks IS Gauntlet.
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that is why i mentioned Brutes who have taunt in all their attacks but do not have Gauntlet.
edit: I suppose this is a popular topic 
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shouldn't all the ATs have inherents that benefit you in some way?
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Should is a very subjective term that is only answered by the developers, who have spoken very loudly with their actions (and inaction).
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and you say that is works sometime? what does it do?
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There was a running streak of patches where it'd get fixed then broken a few times. Due to the lack of precise information concerning taunt mechanics, and the complete lack of any visual que of the range or targets affected by gauntlet, determining what, or if something, is wrong with gauntlet is difficult.
Gauntlet isn't really a power; it's really the area-effect taunt that's built into every tanker single-target attack from their secondary. Arguably, gauntlet includes the taunting effects on all the remaining tanker powers, like "agro auras" and pool powers. Brutes get that too, so the only real difference there is the AE taunt on the single-target attacks.
Oh, and it doesn't start at level 1, but level 6, and the duration increases with level in such a way that at low levels the duration is completely irrelevant to actual play.
I.E., it's best to just consider that the inherent doesn't actually exist.
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Gauntlet, the power, is just a placeholder. The Taunt effect in all Tanker attacks IS Gauntlet.
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that is why i mentioned Brutes who have taunt in all their attacks but do not have Gauntlet.
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For Brutes, Gauntlet is single target, the target hit. For Tankers, Gauntlet is an AoE.
Yes, Brutes have the equivalent of Gauntlet, and most people call it Gauntlet. Whether or not Brutes having a version of Gauntlet that is "not quite as good as" Tanker Gauntlet is good or bad is up to you.
In general, though, villains have much more effective Inherents than heroes do. Heroes have higher base abilities, though. If a Tanker were to get some sort of big damage bonus from Gauntlet, it would probably be at the cost of his base damage. (Like how the damage may be removed from Domination on Dominators, and put into the base damage, but in reverse)
Don't forget Gauntlet:
The only inherent that doesn't do anything in PvP. (not that we'd want gauntlet to do anything in PvP since we'd just get demolished faster)
The only inherent that doesn't in some way buff the AT's primary powersets.
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I made my first tank the other day (blasphemy? hehe) and rolled through the first 10 levels with a few friends. I have to say, I was utterly underwhelmed by Gauntlet! I expected I'd be able to easily pull aggro off my teammates, but I found myself struggling for dear life to get so much as a glance after my spines/ scrapper friend let loose. The AE splash taunt must miss a lot, because I was rarely able to draw the attention of more enemies than my current target. Even when switching targets a lot, it was pretty disappointing 
Is the splash accuracy the same as the accuracy of your attack (and therefore affected by enhancements)? If not, I imagine it'd be pretty useless against relatively high level foes.
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Can of worms... opened.
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made me lol 
Defenders aren't doing much better.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Tankers historically never "taunted" as much as the DEVs intended.
As you may have learned by now, many Tanks don't think that they need to take Taunt and that it is a useless power because it doesn't benefit them.
Tankers were meant to be "bricks" and "defenders" of the other members of a team. It was intended for them to "hog the agro" so AT's that did more damage, healed-buffed-debuffed, and/or controlled could do so without worrying about being attacked ---> because they tend to be squishy.
Since tanks weren't taking Taunt, the provoke-punch in their attacks were added.
When the inherent powers were added, the Tanks were still not "hogging" the agro enough so they were stuck with an inherent that made them do their "job" better.
As it is, Taunt is a far superior agro controlling tool than gauntlet or provoke-punch.
Enemies that are agroed by TAUNT can not be pulled away by someone that can generate more damage than the tank. The other agro/taunt that a tank can generate can be dismissed by superior fire power.
If all tankers thought that Taunt was useful, then the AT would not have been stuck with that inherent.
The Tanker AT gets what it deserves based on player usage of the AT.
That is to say DEV data-mining determined how Tanks were operating. They weren't acting as designed, so steps had to be taken to make them operate more closely to the intended specs.
I think Gauntlet is the cornerstone of all Tankers.
Wut?
One of the above posters said that gauntlet scales by level and I suspect they are right. By time I've hit mid/high level both my tanks (stone/stone and ice/db) have had no problems holding aggro and both of them very rarely use taunt. Taunt it the "I want that guy way over there to hit me" button, anything in melee is kept on me by attacks. This is without slotting for taunt, and while I run the auras only icicles is heavily slotted (as a damage power.) Other tankers using taunt can of course pull targets off me, but if they are firing taunt chances are they don't care about taking hits, so I'm not worried about them.
Also, I believe I remember it being said that the radius is different depending on the attack. The basic attacks are pretty much "taunt the guy and anyone touching him" while the heavier hitters go out a bit further. Regardless, holding aggro gets much easier when you get your aggro aura, which I suspect does more than gauntlet ever will for you. Although looking at the numbers it seems to use the same mechanic as gauntlet, it just happens much faster and with less effort.
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Tankers historically never "taunted" as much as the DEVs intended.
As you may have learned by now, many Tanks don't think that they need to take Taunt and that it is a useless power because it doesn't benefit them.
Tankers were meant to be "bricks" and "defenders" of the other members of a team. It was intended for them to "hog the agro" so AT's that did more damage, healed-buffed-debuffed, and/or controlled could do so without worrying about being attacked ---> because they tend to be squishy.
Since tanks weren't taking Taunt, the provoke-punch in their attacks were added.
When the inherent powers were added, the Tanks were still not "hogging" the agro enough so they were stuck with an inherent that made them do their "job" better.
As it is, Taunt is a far superior agro controlling tool than gauntlet or provoke-punch.
Enemies that are agroed by TAUNT can not be pulled away by someone that can generate more damage than the tank. The other agro/taunt that a tank can generate can be dismissed by superior fire power.
If all tankers thought that Taunt was useful, then the AT would not have been stuck with that inherent.
The Tanker AT gets what it deserves based on player usage of the AT.
That is to say DEV data-mining determined how Tanks were operating. They weren't acting as designed, so steps had to be taken to make them operate more closely to the intended specs.
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Fail. If the devs wanted Taunt to be the default mode of tanks holding aggro, they would have made it the Inherent power all tanks get. Dominators (and to an extent, stalkers) have a click power as an inherent, why not tankers?
From an RP standpoint, the idea of taunt is somewhat silly. "Hey you, hit me" is not a justifiable reason for people to come hit the impervious maniac who bleeds fire and swings a giant hammer, as opposed to the limp-wristed fellow chucking energy blasts.
Whereas having a hammer-swinging maniac in your face is a little harder to get away from.
Damn it Krunch 
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I think Gauntlet is the cornerstone of all Tankers.
Wut?
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Nice.
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Gauntlet, the power, is just a placeholder. The Taunt effect in all Tanker attacks IS Gauntlet.
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that is why i mentioned Brutes who have taunt in all their attacks but do not have Gauntlet.
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Criticals for scrappers is such a placeholder. Stalkers also get to do criticals, way more often than scrappers actually.
But Tankers do have a few other "inherents" if you want to call them such. Tankers have the unique inherent ability of having a bucketload of HP. Tankers have also an "inherent" that allows them to get 33.3% more resistance and defense from the same powers scrappers, brutes and stalkers have.
The inherent nature of an AT is much more than just that tiny icon with a description on it.
Disclaimer: I am not saying I would not change anything to tanks, anyone seen me post know otherwise. But arguments about "inherents" are a bit silly and commit the obvious: the tanker has much more inherent abilities than that icon notes.
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but other ATs have inherents that are noticeable, like Containment and Fury. shouldn't all the ATs have inherents that benefit you in some way?
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Inherent powers are more important to the Villain ATs because they were created around them. The Hero ATs originally had no inherents, which is why they have less use for them.
Criticals and Gauntlet were added to fill a need, Containment was important to the Controller revamp, but Defiance and Vigilance were added simply because "everyone else has an inherent" (Defiance was later changed to become more important, though.)
Basically, there's no equality to the inherent powers because the ATs weren't created equally.
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Tankers historically never "taunted" as much as the DEVs intended.
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Tanks used to take provoke instead of taunt, because it was an AE, and taunt was single target. Geko was actually surprised at people wanting provoke, since it caused the user to be attacked more. The developers didn't expect players to sit still with their immobilizing status protection spamming provoke just to hold agro, and I'm honestly surprised you're under the impression that kind of behavoir somehow wasn't taunt-centric enough.
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Since tanks weren't taking Taunt, the provoke-punch in their attacks were added.
When the inherent powers were added, the Tanks were still not "hogging" the agro enough so they were stuck with an inherent that made them do their "job" better.
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I can't find it here anymore, so here's a link to Badge-Hunter that archived a quote by Statesman: "Some people don't mind the traditional role of a Tanker as a meat shield, other do. Most importantly, however, is that people seemed not to like to be a "provoke bot". It appeared that a Tanker's role was to sit there, take damage, and occasionally hit Provoke. A Tanker's attacks were nice, but pretty much an afterthought in the grand scheme of things. Well, that's not much fun after all. Provoke is fine; but the Tanker's attacks should be MORE important when combat gets started in holding aggro than shouting at various mobs."
Tankers have always been hogging plenty of agro. The player-driven ideal of how a tanker should perform required dependence upon a pool power that didn't promote activity, and that is why tanker attacks were changed from only taunting what they hit (which they always did) to having AE taunt effects, as well has having Taunt the power itself changed from single-target to an AE.
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[Tankers] weren't acting as designed
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Correct. They weren't designed to be taunt-bots, but some players made built them that way regardless of their intended design.
Statesman explained that one "very valid concern" with tankers was that players felt: "1. Without Provoke, they are not a real Tanker. Those people who enjoy the MMP role of "meat shield" have trouble holding aggro properly." This was a player concern.
Yes, they expected tankers to take damage instead of teammates. The original availablility of taunting effects strongly suggests tankers weren't originally designed to take all the damage (and certainly not from an entire map all at once). To state that the players weren't living up to the developers' expectations of taunting tanks is nothing short of revionist history.
We didn't get gauntlet because we weren't taunty enough. We got gauntlet because we were too taunty, and that was unintended.
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Since tanks weren't taking Taunt, the provoke-punch in their attacks were added.
When the inherent powers were added, the Tanks were still not "hogging" the agro enough so they were stuck with an inherent that made them do their "job" better.
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Says who? What's enough aggro? If there's a defender buffing/debuffing (or a Controller), then the teams less squishy already. Throw in minor aggro management from aggro auras, and you don't need to be a Taunt Spam-bot. Suddenly your tank isn't one dimensional. Like your playstyle regime.
If there's blasters and scrappers handing out high damage with said buffing/debuffing going on, then there's even less need to have to control all the aggro. Your idea of team play seems very inefficient compared to what I see in a lot of the game.
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Enemies that are agroed by TAUNT can not be pulled away by someone that can generate more damage than the tank. The other agro/taunt that a tank can generate can be dismissed by superior fire power.
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I thought the devs stated that Taunt is NOT an "I Win" button on aggro. It's not a yes/no factor for grabbing aggro. It's only a strong multiplier. Someone can correct me here if they can pull up the quote, but I have a destinct memory of a red name stating that this was the case, after a long history of thinking otherwise. It can, in fact, be over ridden by enough damage output.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
My fire/fire blaster, if I'm going all out with no regard for my own safety (is there any other way?) can and does pull agro off of anything but an Ice tank running both auras and taunting. If a tank doesn't have Taunt while my blaster is on the team, he is basically a really tough scrapper for all the agro he keeps off me. A stoner running Mud Pots can hold agro from me as well, mostly because they run so slowly they forget about me before they leave the aura.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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My fire/fire blaster, if I'm going all out with no regard for my own safety (is there any other way?) can and does pull agro off of anything but an Ice tank running both auras and taunting. If a tank doesn't have Taunt while my blaster is on the team, he is basically a really tough scrapper for all the agro he keeps off me. A stoner running Mud Pots can hold agro from me as well, mostly because they run so slowly they forget about me before they leave the aura.
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This always get me. So what you're saying is that a player playing a tank has to adjust his/her playstyle to suit your blaster's needs. And your blaster should not have to adjust playstyle to what the tanker does?
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My fire/fire blaster, if I'm going all out with no regard for my own safety (is there any other way?) can and does pull agro off of anything but an Ice tank running both auras and taunting.
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I'm sure your experiences with overcoming taunt auras have nothing to do with the size of a fire/fire blasters AEs compared to a tankers taunt aura radius.
Gauntlet says that it makes your attacks taunt enemies, but all of the attacks seem to have taunt built into them already.
Just as all the Brute attacks have taunt built in and a few of the defensive powers like Invincibility (Invuln), Against all Odds (Shield), and Rise to the Challenge (Will) also have taunts and can be taken by Scrappers.
So i guess i am confused at what Gauntlet actually does if these other AT have taunt built in to their powers as well? Does Gauntlet proc a stronger taunt effect? and if so, is that useful?