Need to low prices on purple sets
By
AgentMountaineer,
Posted on: 2009-06-17 10:56 in The Market and Inventions
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Expect this around here. Remember your failure at the cave. 
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Well at the very least, a response THAT far out of left field helps identify the tr...err....people with unreasonably strong opinions without factual basis.
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you can't come to the market forums and say "cheaper". too many greedy people here for that and you'll just get flamed. trust me. (i agree wityh you though) everything is too high. i'll never spend those prices.
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Great, then you'll never get the purples, and your toon will never be as good as mine. I really don't care, because someone else will pay those prices. Neener neener neener!
Now that's an ebil response.
I'll let you in on a little secret, more of teh nefarious farmers doing their thing would drive that price down. With more farmers producing more supply, us ebil marketeers would be competing with one another, stabilizing the markets and driving the prices down. I do trade in purples, and I'll tell you, there's nothing I CAN do to bring prices down. The prices get driven up by BUYERS that are competing to make sure that they have the highest bid in on a rare item. I could put a Panacea proc up for 1 inf, and it would still probably sell for hundreds of millions.
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I've done that and got 300m.
blah. same ol same. whoever wants to spend that inf can. i'm not and know plenty more that wont. i dont care if my toon isnt as good as anyone elses. not like i'm gonna pvp anyway and i can last just as long in pve as any io'd toon. i have more fun than sitting in WW. if thats how someone wants to spend their 15 bux, cool.
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Just remimber if they Cap prices like a white salvage at 250, I will Vender it over losing the 10% in WW fees. People will stop posting items and making side markets a place to make X times more money as ppl look for a way toget it.
as soon as you pay the buy it noa price, your setting that up for someone else.
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If they cap prices real black markets will spring up not using the consignment house/black market.
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This. Please, devs - give us market caps.
I want to be richer.
RagManX
"if the market were religion Fulmens would be Moses and you'd be L. Ron Hubbard. " --Nethergoat to eryq2
The economy is not broken. The players are
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blah. same ol same. whoever wants to spend that inf can. i'm not and know plenty more that wont. i dont care if my toon isnt as good as anyone elses. not like i'm gonna pvp anyway and i can last just as long in pve as any io'd toon. i have more fun than sitting in WW. if thats how someone wants to spend their 15 bux, cool.
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As long as you understand that you are just venting and there are no market solutions go ahead and keep whining. As long as you understand that if you think items aren't available enough you blame developers and not marketeers then keep whining.
I don't mind complaining about things like that. I think some items should drop more often and it sucks that they don't. I do mind when you blame the wrong people.
i sure dont envy you poor people..
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you can't come to the market forums and say "cheaper". too many greedy people here for that and you'll just get flamed. trust me. (i agree with you though) everything is too high. i'll never spend those prices.
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I've been hinting at it for a while, but it's time for me to apologize to the marketers. After reading a LOT of responses, and thinking about what is said here, I have to agree with smurphy. The marketeers don't drive prices up, the dev-determined drop rates are simply too low. There's nothing that any player can do to consistently raise prices. As one "experiment" showed, a group of players, acting in concert, CAN bring prices down, temporarily, but ultimately, demand far outstrips supply.
The only way the high-priced stuff will come down in price is if the developers decide to make things more common. There are a number of ways they can do that, from increasing drop rates straight up, decreasing recipe costs, or even adding in a store that actually WOULD create an effective price cap: always available at this price, players may sell for lower on the market.
Of course, increasing the supply would drive prices down and help to stabilize them eventually, meaning that playing the market would no longer be several times faster than playing "normally" at making INF to earn those goodies. As it is now, though, you would be well served to read every guide on marketing that you can, follow that advice, and use the deliberately broken market system to your advantage.
I don't like the market. It's boring, not at all fun for me, and it happens to be the single most rewarding way, by far, to spent time in-game. Rewards FAR in excess of the usual ratio of rewards over time.
One thing I did want to ask: why is it that people who want to make systematic progress towards rewards are entitlement whiners, unless they happen to use the market to do it? And people who want the market to be the ONLY way to earn rewards in a linear fashion, eliminating all other ways of doing so, for all other players, aren't called on their sense of entitlement? Merits and tickets were put in by the same devs that gave us a market instead of a store. Not everyone will enjoy everything, but that doesn't make those who disargee with you wrong. 
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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I don't like the market. It's boring, not at all fun for me, and it happens to be the single most rewarding way, by far, to spent time in-game. Rewards FAR in excess of the usual ratio of rewards over time.
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That is ENTIRELY dependent on your definition of "rewards". Many people don't use inf as the yardstick for a rewarding gaming experience. They look at how challenging it was, how many friend they met, what kinds of cool concepts they created, how many baddies they killed, etc. Sure it's the fastest way to earn inf, especially if you don't have a lot of time to play. But as has been stated before, that's mostly because the people that CREATE the inf (i.e. the people who don't play the market) create so much that the amounts trading on the market are trivial.
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One thing I did want to ask: why is it that people who want to make systematic progress towards rewards are entitlement whiners, unless they happen to use the market to do it? And people who want the market to be the ONLY way to earn rewards in a linear fashion, eliminating all other ways of doing so, for all other players, aren't called on their sense of entitlement? Merits and tickets were put in by the same devs that gave us a market instead of a store. Not everyone will enjoy everything, but that doesn't make those who disargee with you wrong.
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Most people who come in here to complain about the market aren't complaining because they want to do it their way, they're complaining that they want everyone else to do it their way too. Also, I'm not a long-timer here so please correct me if I'm wrong, but at least since I've been here, most of the marketeers have been saying Merits and Tickets are good additions to the game since they allow the "whiners" other avenues to reward...the hoped-for result would be the elimination of their "whining" by giving them what they want.
I thought your post was pretty good up until this last paragraph...sounds like you're holding on to some outdated notions from before I was around at least.
True enough. I tend to spend a lot of time on my 50 brute, and the goal I have for him is to finish his IO slotting, including purples. My own experience is coloring what I consider to be "rewards." I've had a lot of fun on him, playing with a good regular group, playing with PUGs, earning a few badges along the way.
The entitlement thing? if you haven't seen posts about it, feel free to ignore it.
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
I have always said the drop rate is too low. The devs rates suck, imo. But it dont help that there ARE people out there that hurt the market prices by taking advantage of it. It wouldn't be so bad if people bought the stuff to use. Buying to jack the price up is stupid. It's hurting the people that actually want the stuffs game because some people,myself included, don't want to "play the market" game to build inf. Don't pity the poor people, but realize not everyone wants to be a marketeer. I'd rather farm so i can at least play my toon and not look for "niches". Flame on...
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I have always said the drop rate is too low. The devs rates suck, imo. But it dont help that there ARE people out there that hurt the market prices by taking advantage of it. It wouldn't be so bad if people bought the stuff to use. Buying to jack the price up is stupid. It's hurting the people that actually want the stuffs game because some people,myself included, don't want to "play the market" game to build inf. Don't pity the poor people, but realize not everyone wants to be a marketeer. I'd rather farm so i can at least play my toon and not look for "niches". Flame on...
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No it is not hurting those people. That's why people flame you. People flame you because you are ignorant. People flame you because you say things that are blatantly false.
Think of prices like goldilocks and the three bears...
Some prices are too low. When prices are too low a "shortage" exists. In a shortage some people are willing to pay the price but unable to obtain the item. Some items in CoH have been and are in a shortage. The most famous example is low level Luck of the Gamblers from long ago. The last 5 for all of these used to say 10 to 20 million. None were ever for sale on the market but fairly often they would appear and be sold instantly. This situation is a shortage. People were willing and able to pay 10 to 20 million. Lots and lots of people in fact. However, none could buy it. Eventually, prices rose. Prices rose because they were too low. Players suffered because they were willing and able to pay the last 5 prices but could not do so.
Some prices are too high. When prices are too high there is a surplus. In a surplus players are willing and able to sell their item at the current price but unable to do so. When you see an item with lots and lots for sale, zero bidders, and a 6 or 7 digit last 5 price you see an item in a surplus. Eventually, prices lower on these items because sellers come along who post their items for less and buyers come along who pay less. Sellers that do not list for less do not sell their item and thus get no money.
Some prices are just right. At these prices there are an equal number of people who are willing to buy as willing and able to sell. These prices are just right.
Marketeers can only survive and profit on items with high volatility where the price fluctuates between too high and too low. These marketeers ride the waves of player impatience. They buy at the low and sell at the high. Other marketeers profit on identifying shortages. These marketeers buy lots and lots of an item that is priced "too low." Then they list them higher and profit. Another type of marketeer creates misleading information on the market and attempts to profit. These marketeers may make temporary profits by buying lots of an item then trying to make the last 5 look bigger or buy buying all of one item then trying to sell a few at huge prices. However, this strategy is unsustainable. The marketeer MUST exit or lose profits because at those high prices there are more sellers than buyers. Eventually, other sellers will appear and the plan will collapse.
Anyway you slice it, marketeers cannot force players to pay higher prices. Every transaction has a willing and able buyer. Yet, you complain regardless. That is why you are ignorant and why you are flamed. You ignore facts, reason, logic, intelligence, mathematics and economics and blame the wrong people. Stop blaming marketeers for high prices and either blame the people who pay them willingly or the developers who don't create a drop rate to your satisfaction.
Just to comment on redside scarcity:
I just bought a full set of purples for an upcomming toon in the last month.
TRY HARDER PEOPLE.
I am not even a good marketer, and I can afford things when I put my mind to it.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
The drops rates are absolutely fine. Purple sets are suppose to be the rarest of the rare (along with PvP sets). People are not suppose to have them. No one ever "needs" them whatsoever.
People just need to deal with the fact that they may not be able to have what others have. That's just the way life is.
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Anyway you slice it, marketeers cannot force players to pay higher prices.
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I think this single statement is the most disbelieved by anti-market types. They think that somehow there is a natural price of items that would be low and affordable, but the darn evil marketeers drive the price up and force the po' folks to pay through the nose.
Anyway, Smurph, I appreciate your 500th attempt to explain supply and demand curves. I hope this time it sinks in, although honestly I wonder at Eryq2's power of abstract reasoning. He is apparently impervious to logic. 
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
I think they could fix the problem by making purples available for buying with architect tickets.. that would probably vastly increase the supply and lower the price.. then again they would probably have to increase the ticket cap too. I don't even know why they made it so low. Probably technical reasons.
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I think they could fix the problem by making purples available for buying with architect tickets.. that would probably vastly increase the supply and lower the price.. then again they would probably have to increase the ticket cap too. I don't even know why they made it so low. Probably technical reasons.
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It's been stated a few times in this thread that the devs don't consider teh scarcity of purples to be a problem in the first place. It's WAI.
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I think they could fix the problem by making purples available for buying with architect tickets.. that would probably vastly increase the supply and lower the price.. then again they would probably have to increase the ticket cap too. I don't even know why they made it so low. Probably technical reasons.
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It's been stated a few times in this thread that the devs don't consider teh scarcity of purples to be a problem in the first place. It's WAI.
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Exactly. When the merit system was released, the devs explicitly mentioned the absence of purples was intentional. Players need to come to terms with the fact that the devs simply don't share a vision that every player is entitled to purples.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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I hope this time it sinks in, although honestly I wonder at Eryq2's power of abstract reasoning. He is apparently impervious to logic.
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Ha ha! One enhancement that certain people seem to have in abundance is the Logic Impervium. Grants +95% boost to logic defense. I love it!
They made the Merit cap stupidly high (40 recipes high or so, I think) and people didn't spend their merits until level 50. So you ended up with nothing but level 50 recipes. I was PAYING people to generate level 33 recipes. One hundred created, compared to probably 100 a day at level 50.
So the fact that you can only hold "3 gold recipes" of tickets is very much intentional, romantoast. Stop hoarding and do something interesting with them.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Sticks and stones. LMAO. You calling someone ignorant must make you feel good. I guess you need to do that to make you feel special in your life. God bless you, you need it.
Anyways, i'm not sure about the drop rates but i know after 30+ hours of farming this week alone (BP and demon), i've gotten crap drops. Not 1 recipe crafted to sell over a mil inf. And that's a regular thing for me. I have 2 accounts and my sk was getting about 7 recipe drops to my 1. Guess i just have bad luck.
I can name several recipes that i've never even seen drop on my accounts over 4 years. Any numinas, respecs, miracle (big one), ToD, any purp in over 3 months, just to name a few. That's alot of playing on your "ok" drop rates not to get any of those several types at all.
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I can name several recipes that i've never even seen drop on my accounts over 4 years.
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Heck, I've only seen one on my one account for 44 years...
President of the Arbiter Sands fan club. We will never forget.
An Etruscan Snood will nevermore be free
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I can name several recipes that i've never even seen drop on my accounts over 4 years. Any numinas, respecs, miracle (big one), ToD, any purp in over 3 months, just to name a few. That's alot of playing on your "ok" drop rates not to get any of those several types at all.
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I said it in another thread, but, ill repeat it.
The game hates joo
i ran 9 farm runs (7 freakshows and 2 BMs, i beleive) set at 6 on vicious, i got 3 purples. Thats not counting other misc drops i got, i beleive i got a LotG D/E? somewhere in there aswell. I tink you should get better luck
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Sticks and stones. LMAO. You calling someone ignorant must make you feel good. I guess you need to do that to make you feel special in your life. God bless you, you need it.
Anyways, i'm not sure about the drop rates but i know after 30+ hours of farming this week alone (BP and demon), i've gotten crap drops. Not 1 recipe crafted to sell over a mil inf. And that's a regular thing for me. I have 2 accounts and my sk was getting about 7 recipe drops to my 1. Guess i just have bad luck.
I can name several recipes that i've never even seen drop on my accounts over 4 years. Any numinas, respecs, miracle (big one), ToD, any purp in over 3 months, just to name a few. That's alot of playing on your "ok" drop rates not to get any of those several types at all.
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I keep looking in the cowfields for horses. No matter how many times I look all I ever find are cows. Cows are worth half the value of a horse. HOW CAN I POSSIBLY GET A HORSE?
My friend Bob helps me search the cow fields sometimes. He once bought two cows and sold them. With the money he made he bought a horse.
I think Bob is an evil market manipulator. I am going to continue searching the cow fields for a horse. Bob has lots of horses now.
For the record, I never mentioned you specifically. If you want to get personal though, that's fine by me. And if anything was to be inferred from what I last wrote, it would be that you are illogical, not ignorant. They are different.
Your whole position of, "I won't buy it because the price is too high" is rather silly; but if such a stance tickles your belly button, then so be it.
Smurphy has pointed out that the reason prices are so high is because the devs have made the drop rate of the ultra-rares...well, ultra low. Simple supply and demand manifests itself, yet there are those who complain about the high prices being the scheme of some evil, greedy marketeers, rather than on the devs who have created the current supply and demand with the established drop rates and merit/ticket costs of salvage and recipes.
The simplest case study was the 'market crash' that came with the release of the MA and the 'meow' farm. I personally didn't jump on that bandwagon, but I was generating more than enough tickets on my own to get several of the recipes I needed, including ToDs, to fill out my build. The drop rates are crap when fighting critters for drops, but the chance of getting a decent recipe increases significantly when you start using tickets to roll recipes because you have some element of control over the reward you receive.
Now prices have gone back up with the MA nerf. I'm sorry you think it such an inconvenience to have to spend a little time in WW or the BM; but just because you refuse to do the work, you are not entitled to the same rewards as anybody else. And if you don't care to earn them, then what cause do you have to complain about high prices or low drop rates? This stance, to me, is what makes no sense and thus leads to my position that you are not ignorant, but illogical.
No warm fuzzies or deific blessings needed here.
I'd like to see multiple changes to the market and the various drop systems.
Scaling market fees starting at 10 million sale price and going up to 50 million, where the fee would start at 10% like now but scale up to 30%. This would hit the higher than 50 million influence sales alot and help reduce influence in the system.
Merits for TFs need to be nerfed by 20 each ( if they are 20 or higher currently) and a random drop be added back to TFs. Incidental supply is what fuels the market and merits + tickets removed a large portion of incidental supply. This change helps fix that to some degree.
Tickets (IE MA not generating purples) have cut down the purple supply, so I'm not 100% sure what a good fix is for that. Realistically speaking, farmers are the ones that supply many things to the market, purples being one of them. With farmers attention shifted to tickets in the MA we can see a more "natural" result on how rare purples would be without farming.
Whether or not that is really a good thing for players in general I don't know, but what I do know is that purples are only truly obtainable via farming, the drop in supply being evidence in how much farming supported purples. I know the devs don't like farming and they have recently changed their badges in issue 15 to reflect that attitude. Purples are in a similar situation.
Finally, as a drastic method of tinkering with market supply, I suggest a script be made that generates sales for items at the markets. Every week the script would randomly generate some % of items based on how many bids are currently out on legitimate items (IE now level 51+IOs), perhaps having it be weighted the same way pool C currently is and also weighted to only generate items over some threshold of bids. Those items would be sold for 1 influence and the influence would be removed from the game by going to the generator script instead of a player. This would remove plenty of influence from the system and generate new supply.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.