Arc 212069/212073 - The Consequences of War

Check Out Police Woman's review of Part 2. My reply's right below it. Time for some revamps.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=414

She's the best reviewer on the boards IMO. One thing, however: when i played CoW, i took it as read tgat the 'hospital' was a building origibally used for another purpose that had been turned into a field hospital - in fact the map itself is just a dressed up office map isnt it?

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

Also, why the hell isnt CoW a DC arc by now?

Eco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

Woo, I can read this thread now without fear of spoilers.

Quote:

She's the best reviewer on the boards IMO.

Thanks for the kind words! You're absolutely right that you don't have to do everything I say, though. The "MASH" comment was just because I'm used to seeing MASH units archetypically appearing in tents and is admittedly super-nitpicky, so you can take it with a grain of salt. (If you could only recolor the tents on the circus map to be olive drab, that would be perfect.) And I hadn't realized that "early" Vanguard was (canonically) so much lower tech than current Vanguard; representing that is actually kind of neat.

Regarding splitting the hospital evacuation into two missions, it's not really a "rating" affecting issue for me, but it did strike me as unusual. In most game content, something like "Evacuate Building" would be a single mission, so I was wondering if the two missions could logically be combined into one. I don't think any of the characters in the "lower floor" mission reappear in the "upper floor" mission, so I'm not sure they actually got any more "face" time as a result of this split, but from what you're saying, it does sound like you might be near the limit on spawn points on the hospital map.

Hope this all helps!

As I've said, you have been an incredible help. You make finding story detail issues a priority, which is an incredible help to people that are really intent on creating the best story possible.

What I mean by creating "more face time" is a little more complicated than just giving a chracter an opportunity to appear. It also means making certain they're spread out. While I like the idea of having four NPC heroes in a mission, the biggest source of complaint I received early on was in regard to the number of NPC heroes and their level of interaction. It eventually led me to the conclusion that two per mission was about the limit as far as satisfying both my story needs and the game-play desires of those players that want their player character to be the center of attention (both for RP-sake as well as reward sake).

One other point... isn't "unusual" a good thing if done well? One of the chief complaints of a lot of the regular game content, as well as many of the current Dev Choices, is the arc's cookie cutter-ness, so to speak. The better arcs (yours and MCM's included) try new things and throw ideas at the players that they probably haven't seen before. Dual mission evacuations just happen to play into my needs.

In any case, thanks again... again... again... I've already made several of the changes you suggested, including a couople I hadn't originally planned to make. I hope someday you'll have the chance to see how your input played into a better version of my arcs.

Based on PW's feedback... or in some cases on a variety of feedback with PW being the straw that broke the camel's back, I made several text changes to Part 2 that'll fix problems or thoughts she brought up.

The biggest involved mission #4. I changed the Hellions burning map to the Skulls burning map so it wouldn't seem repetitious from Part 1. I was able to add one civilian rescue, too.

I'm still considering giving Empathy more face time, but for now I softened her dialogue so there wasn't quite the disconnect between it and her demeanor in the clue. I fixed the various six-that-should-be-five issues. Addressed most of the rest of PW's dialogue and text suggestions, and changed both Dro'Vidt and Hro'Dath's encounters to "Just the boss needs to die."

All that said, someone still must have dinged the arc pretty badly, because it dropped from a 5 star overall rating to a 4 star... I wish people would at least have the courtesy to leave feedback if they do that. ::insert heavy sigh here::

Son. Of. A. Biscuit!

It's amazing what running an arc with a different character can do for your perspective. It's no wonder people were giving Part 2 fours. Running it with a Kheldian, who isn't as kick asp as my usual characters, had me cussing at myself. As a result, I've made two more changes.

1 - The Vanguard Traitor is no longer a Balista. Since they didn't have any other suitable EBs, and since I don't want to waste precious memory on a fully customized character, he's just a boss now. He does get some more help, though.

2 - Escorting a soldier three stories through that hospital map is harder than heck. Someone should have slapped me. He's now just a rescue.

3 - Dro'vidt was frakkin' nuts! Since I had the memory to spare, I re-replaced Dr. Lexis with the original custom hero version. A litttle help from a Lieutenant-level empath will come in quite handy for characters that aren't Captain Superior-like.

Just more missions to run with him, so we'll see if I make any other changes. Heck, I'd have rated myself a four.

Note to self: Test *both* arcs with someone other than Cap or Dalghryn from now on, doofus!

Sweet review on Aentertainment Tonight tonight. They gave CoW - Part 1 five stars and commented about "the sad moment." Awe, they got it. They also said Hro'Dath was "bloody huge!" It was a fun few minutes.

Check out their thread at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=185931 .

After receiving a couple of complaints about the difficulty of finding the "jammers" in the second mission of Part II, a couple of whom claimed it was hidden or not generated, I decided to re-run it myself. I also had problems finding one of them, though I eventually did. I decided to change it from the smaller, black Rikti pod thingie (a technical term) to the much larger and far easier to find Rikti big triangular electrical doohickie (another technical term).

I also added some new dialogue to the allies that stick around to help based on the new I16 changes to the MA.

With all the changes, I decided that we really were into the 7th version of the arcs, so (though it really doesn't matter a lick to anyone but me) I'm now officially calling each arc "Version 7.0." Aren't you thrilled?

Finally, I got a tell from M I Abrahms of Aentertainment Tonight fame, telling me they voluntarilly ran Part II and will be reviewing it on the 24th. He had some nice things to say, but I won't spoil the review. If you're into heavier 70's and 80's rock and some enjoyable banter about CoH, tune it.

I've edited the first post of this thread to include information about reviewer ratings and the current MA rating for both arcs. I'll be keeping this up as new information comes in, though I'm pratty sure the frequncey of new reviewer ratings will decrease now that the arcs have been reviewed by most everyone doing the job.

Okay, the Aentertainment Tonight review was the last straw for poor Mission #2 of Part 2. Their only complaint was the Carnival of Shadows tent map. In this case, however, they specifically said the map seemed out-of-place in the war scenario. Taken in context with other comments about ths particular map, I've decided to throw in the towel.

As soon as time permits, I'll be replacing this map with the RWZ Vanguard compound map with the fallen Rikti mothership in the background and changing all the related text dealing with that mission to match. So, it will still be an outdoor map of about the same size, but the setting will be far more Rikti War-like.

If those of you that have been so generous in providing input into my other changes would care to comment, I'm all ears... er... eyes.

I'm one of those people who commented on the use of the Carnie map. Those circus tents are just out of place in any mission that doesn't specifically reference 1) Carnies or 2) the circus, as part of the mission; the explanation you used for it felt tacked-on. The map doesn't feel like part of the city, it feels like a Carnie map.

Any city map would work, as then the Rikti would just be setting up shop in "some part of the city." The Kings Row maps especially have that dingy feel suitable to the tone of the arc. An RWZ map would also work, as long as you explain the Vanguard bunkers.

The Vanguard bunkers were my biggest hang up with using the RWZ map. But, the war *is* six months in by that point, so having established a bunker as close to the fallen mothership as possible would certainly be plausible.

I'd also have to make it seem understandable why the jammers have been placed there but have gone unidentified as such. Doable with the proper text, but a little problematic. I really haven't found another outdoors map I like - most are just too big - and a mission of the scale I'm wanting has to be outdoors.

It's done, and with remarkably little problem. I looked at every outdoor map and the only one that kept jumping out at me was Little Round Top in the RWZ. I simply changed the mission intro to read that the bunker had been taken by the Rikti several weeks earlier. I think the mission's incredible - probably the most war-like mission of the ten. Definitely a change from the carnie tents, that's for sure.

I ran Part 1 through another play with the wife in order to make certain it was set for submission in the First Annual Architect Awards. I ran Captain Superior (Level 50 SS/Inv Tanker), and she ran Azure Noir (Level 50 Rifle/Devices Blaster). We ran with both heroes at +1 difficulty as 4 heroes each.

Now *that's* a war!

I made several small corrections - new typoes, some clarifications, etc., but I think it's good to go.

We started Part 2. The changes to the first mission worked wonderfully. The new boss is quite doable, and the ambushes amp up the action well. The second mission makes the entire arc into a new animal, definitely a war scenario. I wish I'd done this sooner. Very fast paced action in a distinct wartime setting. No tents here.

Once were' done with this run-through, I think it'll be good to go, too. If anyone has the time to re-run either of them and give me your thoughts before I submit them, I'd be very appreciative.

Part 1 finally got reviewed by Venture. I'll take 4 Stars given his rep.

Read the review here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=215

As for my thoughts... here you go:

1) I've wondered whether the Heavy Assault Suits were anachronistic, however, I haven't found anything concrete saying they were. Although they were not featured in the actual game play in 2004, I've found nothing specifically stating they were created by the Rikti after that time. Rather like the upgraded suits, I've just assumed NCSoft took advantage of superior graphics and designer skills in bringing more of the Rikti to life, as it were. If there *is* a reference, I'd really appreciate someone telling me where it is. As you can tell from the Rikti language and the "Original Vanguard" suits, as well as the text, I'm trying to eliminate anachronism where I find it.

Edit - From the "Reading Between the Lines" Department... I pinpointed why I thought they might be anachronistic, and why you're probably right, Venture. In the official history of the Rikti War it states that the Rikti sent their entire invasion force through the portals at once and that the portals went down without any more additional forces dispatched. The Rikti had underestimated the hero impact and had not taken heroes into serious account prior to the invasion - which resulted in the stalemate and the offensive against the heroes narrated in the Official History and detailed in "Consequences of War."

Heavy Assault suits were developed by the Rikti specifically as a counter to the meta-human problem (as detailed by various developers in interviews and in various Wikis). Unless they were developed and built on Earth after the invasion yet during the war (and, for the sake of CoW, in the first six months), the only time they *could* have been developed and built was in the interim between the 1st and 2nd invasion... ergo, they're anachronistic, dang it all. I'll plan on making corrections as soon as I get a reply from a PM to Avatea regarding how such changes might affect the status of the First Annual Architect Awards submissions.

2) Since it is an original Rikti war simulation, I've been of the opinion that it needs to be, well... warlike. That means all but overwhelming odds as discussed in the Paragon City History. Besides battles and patrols, which have their limits, ambushes are one of the only means of guaranteeing that atmosphere regardless of what setting the players use for their character - thus, I've programmed a lot of ambushes.

3) Commissioner G... Yes, his name a darling - one of the last I've left in the arcs. Since all of the character names hearken back to simpler times (Just try getting the name "Empathy" on any server, I dare you. ) and are in many ways stereotypical, I've left it. If I get an indicator that the devs have an issue with it for Dev's Choice or other reasons, I'll probably break. Otherwise... it's just one of those things.

4) Incomplete? Ok, it's Part 1 of a two part arc. However, I've been reading everything you've said about incomplete arcs. Not that I've built CoW to meet your specifications per se, but I was very cognisant of your specs during revisions and was very careful to make certain that both arcs could be seen as independent in their own right. I've even asked other reviewers to run the arcs with that in mind. If I removed the "Part 1" from the title, and never wrote "Part 2" perhaps you'd want to know more about the survivors, but how true is that of many of the better arcs that actually build Empathy. I'll simply smile and nod after this, because I really do appreciate your input, and I really have looked forward to it, but...

5) In regard to it being unclear in the browser info which war this was, the first sentence reads, "On May 23, 2002, the Rikti invaded." I guess I could have tried to squeeze in something about "The First Rikti War," but I thought it was fairly easy to figure out. I originally had a date reference in the briefing, but received several comments about it's having sounded contrived since, as far as the heroes of the day were concerned, it was the *only* Rikti war.

In any case, I'll definitely address the anachronistic heavies and I'll probably change Commissioner G's *given* name to something a little less obviously homagey. Thanks, Venture, for the review.

For the time being, both arcs are locked. While there are a couple of changes I have in mind to make, they'll remain on the back burner until after the First Annual Architect Awards are history.

Let's pretend there is no anachronism because Dro'Vidt's heavy suit is a prototype. The homage name is just a nice nod. They won't even be noticed... much... by people besides Venture... will they?

Here's the link to Tangler's review of both parts. My comments follow his review. Happy reading.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...6&postcount=43

In case you aren't already aware, CoW is one of several arcs nominated for "Best Multi-Arc" in the first annual Players Awards (located here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=195353).

Check out that thread and, if you're a fan of CoW and think it deserves some kudos, feel free to vote for it... but please be fair and check out its competition if you can. They're all excellent arcs.

Welp, now that we're officially out of the running for the First Annual MA awards, and things aren't looking much swoofer for the Players' Choice awards, I figure it's safe to go ahead and make what will probably be the last significant changes to the arcs I'll be making. Those being:

1) Changing the titles to "Consequences of War," and "Consequences of War II." I'm simplifying them to deemphasize the up front push to show they're a two parter. I think that may be part of what's getting me beat up for awards and such.

2) Change the chapter titles to real chapter titles instead of just "Chapter 1," etc.

3) Add some color to the titles if space permits.

4) Change Commissioner G's given name to something not quite as derivative of certain DC characters.

5) Add text that suggests the Heavy Battle Suit worn by Dro'Vidt is a prototype. I was originally going to remove it since they technically didn't exist in the first war, but there's nothing to fall back on that provides the challenge and suspense I need. Hopefully it'll placate the anti-anachronists out there.

If you have any other thoughts, please let me know.

Check out Lithrei's review here:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=11

You'll find my reply just a little further down the page.

Played the CoW and I must say I liked it. Especially the fact that I, a common hero try to do my utmost in those dark horrible days. No glory, no songs will be written, no parades, no speeches, just me and my sorrow, me and my duty, me and that tiny part of the war I fought in.

If you were standing here, GrinningSpade, I'd give you a deep, manly... um... well...

Seriously, you have no idea how much your short post contributed to making my day. At the risk of sounding like Sally Fields (if you don't get the reference, you're just too young ), you really get it. That's exactly the effect I'm shooting for with CoW.

Thank you, VERY much.