Arc 212069/212073 - The Consequences of War

OK, this is a weird question, especially for this forum, but I'm just weird that way. The question is...

If you have characters that are members of supergroups, were those groups active during the first Rikti War in 2002, and where were they based? Also, do you have characters that were there during the first war? (OK, so it was more than one question...)

I'm considering some dialogue changes/additions to my arcs (especially if Going Rogue gives me more space), that will reference battles taking place elsewhere in Paragon City. In particular, I plan on having the Moores (Empathy and Energy Blastion) engage in dialogue about the fate of their son--which is being left in the hands of the group or groups based in the area of their home.

If this comes to pass, rather than make up a group name, I thought I'd use actual SG names from groups used by co-forumites.

Sister Twelve posted reviews of CoW on her thread, beginning here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...51&postcount=2

This is a very interesting thread as far as CoW's concerned, and really gets into the heart of what the story's all about. There's some really great reading and insight, if you're interested.

I guess it's kind of old news, seeing as how it's been two days (not to mention the eleventy-bazillion "Consequences of War" banners you scrolled past to get here), but CoW won the first annual Player Awards for "Best Multi-Part Story!" Yowza!

Thanks go to:

MRCaptainMan, who nominated me... it... them... and who graciously took second place with his wonderfull arcs "The Audition,"

Bubbawheat for putting the whole show together,

Airhead, just because,

All the other creators, both in the Multi-part category as well as all the rest, for putting me in such incredible company,

Everyone who voted for me... it... them..., and most especially...

My wife, who's put up with me from the beginning, helping me playtest, revise, and generally make a jerk of myself at times. I know she prays they don't increase the memory with GR.

Thanks, Airhead... and for the record, I voted for Captain Dynamic the Great... as the best one.

Sorry for the delay in posting. I'm getting ready to leave town for a couple weeks. Fair warning to anyone that's watching -- my Internet access will be sporadic at best, but I will have a laptop with me.

I'm baaaaaack...

After having read the comments on the various runs that were made while I was gone, I have a new question for those of you that have played both arcs:

Does the similarity between the 4/5 missions in Part 1 (the two stories of the SOLUS HQ) and the 3/4 missions of Part 2 (the two stories of the hospital) cause you heartburn? I've had a couple people comment that the two arcs were two similar, but that's the only real similarity I see. I may look at making some changes, but only if people that have played it that I trust to give me accurate feedback think it might be helpful.

Thanks to Policewoman's most recent review (or re-review, rather), I've made a few minor changes to Pt. 1. More significantly, however, I've completely changed the map in the final mission and upped the ante a bit in regard to the ferocity of the battle. Gone is the Hellions burning map and in is the burning tech map I didn't even know existed until PW mentioned it.

Since I'm still strapped for time, I really haven't gotten to play test it much, so if anyone does, please let me know what you think.

I'm still nickeling and diming away on the big change for mission 3 (and some before and after text in the two missions on either side of it) in Pt. 2. I have no clue when I'll get the changes published, though.

In the mean time, it's Christmas Eve and I'm about to start putting together the baby's toys. Everyone have a wonderful Christmas!

I'm through making the technical changes to a local copy of CoW II, Mission #3, and am working on dialogue and text changes in that mission and the two on either side of it. I'm still not certain I'll actually *make* the change, though. If it really stands a chance of improving the ratings for the second arc (which generally run about 50/50 4 to 5 stars), and people think the story becomes stronger, I will. Otherwise, why bother?

The revision removes the first "floors" from the hosptital as they're depicted in Mission #3. Instead, I've created a mission where Captain Superior realizes that the Rikti are too thick in and around the hospital. There's no way the group can either get to him or get inside the hospital in time to help given the number of Rikti and Rikti armaments they'd have to fight through.

So, he incorporates the help of a Midnight Squad mage who will be meeting the player character and Commissioner G, Billy Bad Boy, and Energy Blastion in a small section of a recently uncovered part of Oranbega (unearthed by the Rikti). Once the player character is there, he has to find the other heroes, locate the mage, keep the CoT at bay, and protect the mage while he converts one of the CoT portals for his use -- sending the three SOLUS members to Cap's location and the player character to the upper floors of the hospital to finish out Missions 4 and 5.

It all fits continuity well, from the Midnight Squad to the fact that the Rikti accidentally uncovered parts of Oranbega (which had pretty much become rumor or urban legend to that point) while they tunnelled their lairs, and adds another twist, plus some enemies besides the Rikti. It also eliminates the semi-duplication of the two-missions for multiple stories of the same building which I also used in the first arc.

Thoughts? Is this better than the current Mission #3, or should I just leave it alone? The arc is currently resting on the 4th page of the MA, so I can't complain, but if it can get better, I'd like to do it.

[Note: Purely opinion]

I agree that it feels redundant to have two hospital missions (I think you had two hospital missions? It's been awhile since I played this arc). So I like the initial idea of getting rid of one of them and maybe replacing it with something else.

Rather than inserting a different mission, have you considered simply cutting the target mission and merging the best elements to the other hospital mission? It might make the story a bit tighter and give you more arc space to play with for the remaining missions.

Another alternate suggestion I'd offer: a downtime mission where you spend some quality time with some of the heroes, building up some personal connections, before everyone gets thrown into the meat grinder in the final act. Perhaps a small celebration of a minor victory, or carousing in the Vanguard cantina that gets rowdy, or something like that; then move some of the character moments (like Empathy showing her family photos) to there. Just a thought.

Focusing on the specific change that you're proposing, I have the following concerns:

* Involving magic is a little dissonant with the science fiction theme of the Rikti invasion. Granted, Omega team was all about magic -- nevertheless, I still think it is awkward to mix wizards with aliens. In my opinion, having the player wander Oranbega fighting CoT will be disruptive to the gritty space war ambience that you are trying to convey in this arc.

* If the hospital is surrounded so that you have to infiltrate the hospital by magical means, just how are you supposed to evacuate the casualties that are currently in the hospital? It's still surrounded, isn't it? I guess you could drag them through Oranbega? Not sure I'd buy that.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Police Woman, thanks very much for the input. You raise some very good points. While I was about 3/4 of the way finished with my proposed revision, I think I'll think on what you said. I'm not so much worried about your final point. I can get around that with the proper dialogue. The point about the dissonance between the magic and tech makes a lot of sense, though.

In that vein, however, wouldn't stopping the action in mid-stream for a down time mission, be just as dissonant? You've just come from two battles (not including the five from the previous arc) and you know there are pitched battles waiting. I like the thought, but... Hmm, something to ponder.

I owe you one, PW. Your suggestions gave me a great idea. I'm going to combine all your ideas and mine. I'm pretty stoked about my idea for the new mission. If I can pull of the logistics, I think it'll be a significant improvement.

...and that's all I have to say about that (for now ).

OK, I just published version 9 of the second arc - Now referred to as "The Casualties of War." The third mission (originally the "lower stories" of the hospital) is now set back in the ruins of the SOLUS Collective's base as shown in the first arc. The player character, Captain Superior, Billy, Commissioner G and Energy Blastion are supposed to meet Alistair McKnight (Ashley's father) there so he can teleport them directly the hospital (inside in the case of the player character and outside in the case of the four SOLUS members.)

It's been through a couple of play tests, but still probably needs some tweaking. If you play it, please let me know what you think, and where I need fixes (if any.)

Thanks.

Okay, after finishing up a few houskeeping changes... re-highlighting the titles and subtitles in yellow, cleaning up the text a bit here and there and so forth, I'm putting my arcs in holding patterns pending a couple things.

1) I have pending reviews on both arcs from LaserJesus and Mychyl, and on "Casualties..." from PoliceWoman. LJ is the one that got me started with some great suggestions, so I'm anxiously waiting to see what new advice he may have. Mychyl's new to the reviewing game, but he provides a fresh set of eyes with thorough, well-spoken reviews. PW always has a wonderful perspective that leaves you feeling good regardless of the rating. Sometimes it's just good to stop and let someone else have a look, you know.

2) I'm not holding out hope for huge changes to the MA in I17, but even doubling the memory (like we know is planned) will allow me to add some things and tweak some text so that it's a little more solid. I'm quite certain I won't be using all the new memory, but it will be nice to make some changes that memory kept me from making before.

If you've reviewed it before and have time to take another look, I'd appreciate all the eyes I can get. Both arcs have undergone significant changes since all the reviews listed. I'd love to know if they made a difference to those people that thought they still needed work, and if they improved the story even more for people who 5-starred them from the start.

Thanks...

Check out Mychyl's flattering review in "Yet Another MA Review Thread?" at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...3&postcount=46.

You know, I was going to address this point by point, but... you know... it's four in the morning and it'd just be a whipping. Thanks for the points you made about Tro'Naht. I should have addressed them before. Consider it done. As for everything else, yet again, it's a matter of not being able to please everyone. The things you complain about (such as the smaller maps), are points other people have had issues with in reverse. Sometimes you can't win.

For the record, in war sometimes it just isn't pretty and it doesn't make sense. Sometimes, people die for no good reason. The attacks on the hero bases are documented CoH history as a means for the Rikti to end a virtual stalemate they had with Earth's heroes -- a stalemate that had taken place despite the Rikti numbers. Hundreds of heroes died for no reason save the Rikti wanted them dead. Regardless of sheer numbers, the heroes DID present an obstacle the Rikti hadn't prepared for, and the war WAS grinding on slowly for the Rikti. Diversions and feigns are part of every war effort, and -- as you point out -- the Rikti had plenty of troops to create these types of maneuvers. It makes sense that they'd do this kind of stuff since they WEREN'T getting the job done through shear numbers.

You came down harder on me for things that were basically the same the first time you ran the arc, and you criticized things you didn't mention before. Maybe it was a mistake asking for a re-review.

In any case, thanks for your time and for not gigging me with three stars in-game. Maybe my perspective will change if I can get some more sleep.

Nope, even wide awake, my perspective's the same...

...despite improvements made based on tons of well qualified reviewers and yourself, you still rated me an overall star lower than before, even though the things you most complain about are virtually the same.

For the record, I have tried to find the original map I used for the first mission since I liked it better anyway -- to no avail. If anyone remembers it and can tell me what I'm looking for, I'll be forever in his or her debt.

I also changed the second map, switching it from an office/Rikti bunker to just a small Rikti bunker. I got tired of trying to work around the computers appearing in the office, which was just a dumb place for them to appear. I kept it small (much to Glazius' probably chagrin) because I'm thinking a larger complex would have created more discovery issues and would likely have been found sooner.

Glazius, you're dobbing me not one but two stars simply because you don't like that I've accomplished my goal. The translator issue aside (and, just because you argue in a civil manner, I'll double check my notes and even consider some story modifications to clarify my thoughts on that) I'm telling a realistic tale of the Rikti War. At the risk of patting myself too hard across the back, I do a very good job of it -- not perfect (or I wouldn't still be soliciting feedback), but pretty darn good.

Unfortunately, it's established that the war was a tragedy, but that's the story I'm trying to tell. The player character saves a lot of lives (something that has to be symbolized by just a few due to the limits of the MA and by most play preference -- can you imaging running a mission with several dozen rescues and escorts?) and plays a part in other things that ultimately translate to helping the war effort, so he/she does make as much difference as he/she would in most of the in-game arcs, but he/she simply can't save the world because we know that's not what happens.

I've had reviewers tell me the story is very emotional, and that's my aim. I don't like the end result, either, but, in my opinion, to gig that much me primarily because it's not your cup of tea is -- dare I say it -- poor form. Yeah, there's not much "down" to go, unless you failed to save anyone at all or do anything positive in the slightest, but... sorry... that's the way this story ends.

::insert shrug here:: You're the reviewer, and I asked for the review. Guess I'll just smile, nod, and move on. You won't like part two any better, so, as I've said elsewhere, please don't waste your time..

Review as part of the CoHMR Aggregator project.

@GlaziusF

Rereview as there have apparently been significant changes.

Playing this on my level 50 spine/regen scrapper, +1 x2 with bosses on.

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Huh. Okay, so it turns out I did do something worthwhile in the last arc after all. Good to know.

So now we're trying to turn the tables and feed the Rikti false information.

On the one hand, I like the idea of less awesome recolored Longbow standing in for the Vanguard. On the other... poor Longbow. Then again, if this was the best tech on offer at the time maybe their current incarnations actually are an upgrade.

"How'd that hero get in here? Get her, before he ruins everything!" I think you missed something there.

Interesting wrapup.

Things I didn't know before but found out accidentally: it seems like the mission complete popup will actually show up in the mission description you get by clicking the "exploding i" button when the mission's complete.

(I was looking for what those coordinates meant.)

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I enter the next mission and... damn. Total chaos. The boss gets taken out by the base turrets while I'm still pinned down dealing with the approximately four Rikti bosses that have showed up inside the bunker from one source or another.

The destructibles are too far out from the bunker to complete without any involvement on my part, so that's a bit of good news at least. But the heroes can get a bit close, and I had the devil of a time freeing Captain Superior before I hopped back into the bunker and found the last element of his escort tangled up with another two bosses.

The hell did they all come from?

My accomplishments from last time continue to be treated like they were breakthroughs. Captain Superior's also mentioning the alpha/omega plan, which I don't remember from last time. Makes me wonder.

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Now this I don't remember at all.

So McKnight has been making all these bodybags, huh? Dude must have a serious hate on; then again the Midnight Squad got freakin' wrecked during the same action the last arc put me in for.

There's a stone altar on the second level, long before I find McKnight. It's not active, either, Hoo boy. Odd.

Man, some of these bodies show up in the weirdest places. Found a couple actually in burning parts of the base. Makes me wonder if Alistair is actually the one who put all the flames here.

Ah, I see. It's an emergency backup if you fail this destructo. ...man, how does that work? I admit I like the idea, but I didn't see it pop up in the navbar and the mission completes when I successfully defend it.

Well, anyway, time to try and save the day.

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"Sarah Lexis is an expert in meta-human physiology and head of the research staff at Paragon University. Because of her expertise, and latent meta-human skills, she became your contact by default."

My... contact? Is there a part three to this series that's eluding me?

The elite boss fight is a little harrowing because I don't know what's an AoE and what's not and keep getting her caught in the blasts, but afterwards it's pretty smooth.

The debrief should probably be in a different font or italicized or both, since it's internal monologue.

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Wait. Statesman's aid? Suicide assignment?

Okay, so this is part of the alpha team action. But I don't remember anything like that in the briefing for mission three. Cap's clues seem to hint at it, very obliquely, but that's about the extent of it.

Or... maybe it isn't? It's an action to buy time so Alpha Team can put their plan into motion, which is to... engage the Rikti to keep them occupied?

Which is what's just happened?

Or is the Alpha/Omega maneuver still a long way off?

Hmm. And the souvenir says it was Cap's clasp that did the recording, though for some reason I thought it was Blastion's ring. That was a communicator, right?

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Storyline - ****. You've done a much better job of putting my actions in the context of SOLUS. Few things I'm less sure about though. First, as far as I knew, Lazon wasn't actually killed directly by the Rikti so much as contained until he had no choice but INFERNOVA. I think it was the opening popup to the last mission that mentioned this.

Second, how exactly did the giant laser-spewing dropship crash? I can't see it go down through Cap's recorder unless it's what hits the building. I realize I can't exactly be one-shot by a giant laser (unless you decide to make this a defense task on an impossible timer with the laser going off when time runs out) but it just feels like luck to have the ship gone.

Third, Cap only hinted at it roundabout, but what role exactly does this play in the who Alpha/Omega plan? I thought going into this I'd actually get to play a bit of a role in the struggle of poor doomed Alpha Team but this seems to have gone on a bit before that.

Design - ****. Things have gotten a bit more manageable since the last go 'round. The large tent map is gone and all the hunting with it, replaced (?) with a burning lab with much more active rescuees. Or did it go from large tent to bunker?

The bunker map's a bit of a problem still, in that the turrets can complete several objectives without hero intervention, and with all the fights going on there's potential to have a big clump of bosses crowded around the entrance. Why not use an actual Rikti bunker? They'd been building those things for a while before the invasion kicked off.

Gameplay - ****. Pretty solid. The only hiccup was trying to find the necessary mobs to complete objectives in the bunker map when they'd been scattered about by turret fire.

Detail - *****. Aside from a couple of typos as noted and the somewhat inexplicable description on Dr. Lexis, not much wrong here. My worry with the story is more where it fits into the larger picture; the detail does a good job of fixing it where it is.

Overall - ****. Much improved from its initial incarnation, with the problematic maps gone and a little more active role in the overall action for my hero. I still have misgivings about that bunker map and the way the turrets can scatter and/or complete objectives.

"The Consequences of War" Volume 10, "Director's Cut," has been published!

I changed a couple of maps, adjusted the character interaction and "feel of war" in the first mission and used the extra memory to add patrols, flesh out individual battles, add some rookies to Mission #4, and individualize dead bodies. I'll probably continue tweaking it a bit as I work on "Casualties..."

If you run it, please let me know what you think.

Fixed. Thanks for the catch.