Arc 212069/212073 - The Consequences of War
By
airhead,
Posted on: 2009-06-08 11:19 in Mission Architect
After a couple of very insightfull critiques, I've completely revamped the first arc. It is now published under arc #227331.
Also, the following links provide much more detail about the story narrated in "Consequences of War":
Paragon City: Alien Invasion (Official CoH Website)
"The Fall" (SOLUS Foundation Website)
"A Brief History of the SOLUS Foundation" (SOLUS Foundation Website)
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Arc Name: The Consequences of War - Parts 1 and 2
Arc ID: 212069 and 212073
Faction: Primarily Rikti
Creator Global/Forum Name: @dalghryn
Summary: this one is about something called SOLUS, a group of people that treat you like the coffee boy. It does tie in nicely to historical events, where, historically, you were a coffee boy in a fancy costume. Needs work to center it on the player. My frazzled attitude grew throughout this arc, details below.
This one has been overlooked a little while, so I gave it a shot. I'm not too excited by a dour war story. Perhaps you could highlight that some good comes of this. A strength that shone through during the darkest hour, that sort of thing. Yes, it was a sacrifice (sounds like a massacre at this point) but, I assume, it helped? That, and some kind of mechanism for involving the player, may get it more attention. Your introduction makes it sound like a history lesson.
Actually, the Description in the MA is better, a little more personal, and doesn't mention "SOLUS" about which I have no clue yet. That's all good. Strange to see your Part 2 has more plays, but I presume that's because Part 1 got republished from scratch.
8:17pm: Start arc
The SOLUS Collective is mentioned. I better go check out the reference mentioned. Hmm. No mention there of SOLUS Collective. It could be the mages that were incinerated, but no, that happened at the beginning, not 6 months later. I guess I have to pretend I know that SOLUS are some subset of the good guys. Perhaps its an author supergroup insert.
Nice that the Rikti don't speak in Engish (yet). Good use of patrols and bosses to provide atmosphere ("squiggly dialog").
I save Billy. His description suggests he's useful, but he's not. Better just let him be "worth saving simply because he's human". He's now just wandering around.
At least there's Captain Superior. A higher-ranking person from SOLUS, there's someone I can count on. Uh, what? He ran off to "report directly to Lazon what he'd found". He says I can handle this mission with Billy. Billy the truant? Billy, the wandering around not following me guy? Okay, I accept that must be a bug then. Or I have to wonder if these humans are worth saving.
For the Rikti bomb, the Singular form could be "Defeat the last Rikti Plasma Bomb", since singular form will only appear when one is left. Likewise, Plural form could be "Rikti Plasma Bombs to destroy" (and the number will be placed in front).
And then I defeated Tro'Naht. Strange that I knew his name, perhaps call him "Rikti operation leader" or somesuch, since at this stage of the war we're not on personal terms. And I let one of his subordinates live, perhaps set it to kill boss only required for completion. After beating him I was ambushed, but the ambush text was gibberish, so I wasn't very prepared for it. I guess that's fair. When I finally beat the leader's last henchman, I'm told I beat Tro'Naht - perhaps "..and his henchmen/inner circle/command team".
8:54pm: Return to contact.
The popup on exit is a bit of a downer. Be nice if I could feel just a teensy bit proud.
I like the psuedo-tech behind my second mission. Makes me feel like the good guys know what they're doing.
8:57pm: Enter second mission.
I'm finding it messier than usual to clear these guys. Seems to be a good mix of patrols.
Another potential ally figures she's "done enough" and goes wandering. What is WITH these SOLUS people?? They do know this isn't a day at the office, right? Hope she meets a patrol.
Cute to see Rikti computers in the offices. Oh oh, ambush. Double-ambush. Should have brought more green inspirations, that was messy, but cool, running battle caused by the tight spaces.
More computers underground! But the one I found indoors got me what I needed. At least no more ambushes. And there's my last "ally" - he and Nicole will cover my back. While he wanders around aimlessly. Surely not this many bugs - perhaps something just broke in AE? If they're meant to wander, let them acknowledge they're exhausted, and they should leave it to someone like $name to save the day. Unless they're intentionally annoying.
9:15pm: Return to contact.
"Rendezvous at the SOLUS HQ (the what?) and we'll come up with a more advanced strategy..." *mumbleteamworkmumblemumble*
Okay, so the big guns (who wander a lot) are off to fight Rikti, while I do the equally-important job of running an errand. Two errands, messenger both ways. Doing this will help if my colleagues doing the grunt work fail! *mumblewhydontIjusthelpthosedarnSOLUSwanderersmumb le*
M3 sendoff: rime -> time
At least the send-off message makes it all sound more important. I'm still the messenger boy. I don't think SOLUS really needs me at all, I think I'll go bake a cake.
9:22pm: Enter mission 3.
Wow, that was short, and sweet. Found the data quickly, then did the rescue, involving Vanguard patrols regularly. Felt like a proper assault. I wonder if I could get a transfer from SOLUS to Vanguard?
9:29pm: Return to contact.
Return pop-up - "The bad part... the Rikti attacked the SOLUS base". Woo. My transfer is looking up.
So I'm to rendezvous with Penthouse and Commissioner G - I presume at the SOLUS base? With names like that for their minor heroes, I wonder if there's a Hugh Hefner character in this somewhere.
For consistency in Mission 4 intro, I'd put "Lazon out" also in orange, to complete his text spoken to me.
Ahh! So this now ties to canon - this is where supergroup bases were attacked all at once. The history doesn't tell me how this one goes, good, I get to make some history. And save these sorry SOLUS sausages in the process.
9:34pm: Enter mission 4.
Pop-up says I can hear Penthouse somewhere in here. But the first person I meet is Lazon, not sure if you have any control over that.
Okay, I saved Lazon. At least he's moving with more urgency, and flees off into the battle zone. From my nav, I see the folks he's gone to save are "bodies", I wonder if one of them will be his.
The Clues are solid though, plenty to read. I seem to have overlooked some, so taking a pause in the middle of a hectic battle to browse...
Clue Lazon's Orders: no sign Flash whoever -> no sign of Flash whatsoever
On the first body I find the Clue (as it happens with collections) but the clue says I've found 5 bodies. Perhaps need to make it more vague.
I find Penthouse. She asks me to help her take these guys down (but like any hostage, doesn't get involved). Then she runs off to help the corpses. "No time for a mutual admiration society"?? Where's my Vanguard card.
It said earlier that the 'kids' (corpses) were in the residential section, but I found most of the body bags in an area of laboratories.
And on to the top floor! There's my last hostage, and there, right inside the door, is... oh dear RUN. Nice little surprise that. I guess I will have a worthy battle at the end, awesome.
Just on the off chance, a long shot, on a prayer, I rescue Commissioner "Hugh" G, and he runs off to save the corpses too. Given what I knew from my nav at the very beginning, I'd imagine someone might listen to me. Just once. Perhaps. So the big bad's all mine.
And there's an ambush. I guess every EB/AV in every arc ever has to have an ambush. So I get to start all over again. I'm nearly done, so I guess I will. Some of the Rikti come through the elevators, speeding up my trip back to the inspiration vendor (and the hospital).
I'm all equipped again, although I've used up some accolades, so this time around is going to be even more tedious. The saving grace of all this - the big bad heals very slowly when not in combat. I defeat him, then I have to hunt down the Infantry that is also considered part of the boss.
10:14pm: Return to contact.
And after all that, it wasn't the last mission, there's one more to clear the upper floors of the same building (so more than the several floors I just cleared). Must be something like the Baxter Building.
So I'll have an AV in this. I struggled with the EB, so this isn't looking good. It's a Hro-something, so probably another Hro'Dtoz, who I barely beat in Venture's arc when I had the benefit of a wide-open space. This is going to be tedious I'm sure.
10:20pm: Enter last mission.
And now I have 9 bodies to collect, 4 support staff, a rescue (another lazy SOLUS), an AV, "plus anything else of value" (that would be the partridge in a pear tree). Can't the bodies, at least, wait? They could be non-required (side) objectives.
There's a popup full of atmosphere, but I'm already in a battle, so its hard to read.
Oh. The support staff are newscasters, and they're going to follow me throughout. I sense my frustration is intentional! They're captives too, not minions, so they're invulnerable.
There's the third newsreader. I'm going to hope she's not a required rescue. It's already a crowd here.
Actually, I'm going to give up at this point. I doubt my graphics is going to last through all that is yet to come (it does crash regularly), and I'd hate to be 70% through the AV when I crash. It's getting late too. I don't feel very heroic, I'm beset by silent newsreaders, and I still have a Christmas list from hell to go. Sorry for my attitude on this one, I hope I might get to feel a bit more valuable next time through this.
Cheers, airhead
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
You know, I've never chuckled so much while being eviscerated...
This goes to show one thing. You can't win. You have no clue how many people griped when the SOLUS characters *did* help... "They take away my tickets..." "They make me feel less heroic" (Sound familiar)...
There *is* no happy medium, but I'll look at scaling them up or something, depending on whether or not I'm eviscerated by another reviewer or two.
I had a bit of exposition about exactly who the SOLUS Collective are, and another reviewer shot me down for it. I remove it... Bring on the evisceration...
"It doesn't make me feel heroic enough." ::insert heavy sigh here:: You should see it when the NPCs help. Unfortunately, this story doesn't have a happy ending - at least not if I keep it historically accurate. According to the people that count (read: NCSoft and Cryptic) over 200 heroes dies that day. It just doesn't make for a touchy-feely story. Boy, am I looking forward to logging in and seeing *this* star rating...
I'll take suggestions... or maybe I should start reading up on self-evisceration. The Japanese call it sepuku, right?
Edit: For the record, I went ahead and addressed some of this. Rather than bore people silly with some forced exposition about what the SOLUS Collective is, I added info in the first mission brief about not only where to find the CoH story about the Rikti Invasion, but where to find the SOLUS information. I also ramped up one NPC per mission. If I get griped at, I'm pointing them to you. For those that didn't get that Hro'Dath would present a problem, I added a little text to make damned sure everyone understands he is a bad A/V with lots of help.
Oh, and I added text where Lazon tells the player character that the third mission may seem like it's a "'coffee boy' mission," (and I quote) but it's really important, as well as shoring up some other text that may help players feel like they're heroes.
It's a war story, there just isn't a happy ending.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Hi Dalghryn,
Actually, I didn't vote, I needed to think on this. What you've got so far is a 4, for sheer scale of adventure, and could be a 5 if I could get some joy from it. The combats are actually all fair, the only issue I really have is with the attitude of everyone. You could simply say SOLUS is one of Paragon's larger hero groups, that's all I needed to know.
Remember that your player is a non-SOLUS, and perhaps each of these SOLUS people could recognize how the player is trying to help. And if the SOLUS people aren't going to help, they should acknowledge the player is perhaps better able for the task at hand. There could always be an occasional grump - like Deitrich in the Longbow arcs, heroside. But I kinda felt nobody appreciated me, and while even Spiderman gets some of that, there's always the little scene where the "everyman" shows his appreciation for Spiderman's heroic ideal.
It'll still be a miserable plot (I mean 'sad') involving massacre and all, but these poor peoples' last words should be something heroic and memorable, just not petty.
And of course, this is just opinion. I'm not asking you to change whether anyone is an actual ally, but if they're not, they should apologize, that's all 
Cheers, airhead
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
Wow. I was away just a weekend, and this arc has done well! My review above might still be cute, but now bears little resemblance to the arc. Parkin (whose reviews I enjoy) reviewed this part 1 arc today, and loved it. I have little to add, since I agree with parkin. Well done.
Some minor comments as I played through again:
The second web reference is very well done. It also gives away much of what happens in this arc, perhaps it would make a better souvenir. But then people might not get to the end of the arc simply because it's long, and they'd be missing out. Not sure what's best here.
M1 Send-off: The SOLUS Collective and... -> Our supergroup, the SOLUS Collective, and... [since Lazon hadn't mentioned SOLUS mentioned yet, this just puts it into context].
Mission one reads very well. The SOLUS folks have unique, heroic, personalities. So much has changed. The atmosphere of war is still there. Great.
Mission 2 - I see I have a few allies now. Just lieutenants, so doesn't worry me. I know you turned off some allies as you got feedback there was too many - if that happens again, you might consider one of these guys being "exhausted" or having "solar recharge problems" or something.
Mission 3 - I'm a very proud coffee boy this time! Soon to graduate to chaiwallah.
Mission sendoff still has typo: rime -> time
Even the things I didn't comment on seem to have improved, such as the entry popup. This is great! It's like you had a close relative helping edit! And woah. Rebecca sure is happy to see me!
Back for mission 4. My whole attitude to SOLUS is utterly different this time around. It's amazing what a little dialog can do. I sincerely hope I can help the SOLUS, as bases everywhere are under attack.
The lobby is crazy. Lazon's yelling orders, patrols everywhere, mez and blast, mez and blast... woo! Lazon runs off as before, but I know this time he's doing the right thing.
Nav: 5 Hero's Bodies -> 5 Hero Bodies (or) 5 Heroes' Bodies [I'm not sure of this one]
Unfortunately Lazon runs on a bit, then stalls, but gets going again when I catch up. Perhaps that's what is called a waypoint, if that provides an option to add some dialog (I don't know).
Could New York Gentry look a bit beat up? Tattered sleeves, blood on face, worn cape, perhaps? He's described as being a bit beat up, but looks... spiffy.
And on to mission 5 - hopefully to complete this for the first time! Popups clarify the tall-building factor, that's great.
Oh dear. I still have the support staff following me en masse - oh, they're escorts! That's a lot of escorts, at least they're all near the entrance. The nav should indicate escort, rather than rescue. I only figured it out from the red dot at the entrance.
Ahh. Found most of everything, but then the AV is just too tough for me to solo in this tiny little space. Still, good arc. Needs an AV warning. Or perhaps put a time-limit, so I can at least wait out the time and complete the arc with a fail message. Or perhaps make Hro'Dath optional, with focus on retrieving the bodies - that's hard enough, considering 4 of them showed up in Hro'Dath's little set of rooms. The time to pick-up the bodies would need to be shorter for that scenario to work...
Great rework on this. Thanks! //airhead
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
Thanks very much for the review, and the praise for the first arc. Unfortunately, both of them were posted simultaneously when I originally did them, so the second has had to langish with it's flaws while I worked on the first. Now that the first is all but done, I'll be turning my attention to the second.
I've already removed all the villain collaborators. Originally they were fighting against the Rikti as well, in their own special way - which cause problems the heroes had to clean up. I changed that at the suggestion of someone that has otherwise been a *huge* contributor to the improvement of the first arc. I should have done my homework - My bad.
Anyway, stay tuned for a better part two, too.
As for your comments about the first arc. Actually, the typos (rime instead of time, compass text issues, etc.) had been caught and corrected, but for some reason they didn't stick. In truth, I spent two hours making changes yesterday that were lost when the MA decided not to accept an update for some reason. I think I was all but brain dead by the time I finished going back through it again.
As far as the website reference, I'll see about changing the wording a bit, but I'm up to 99.78 percent memory use, which equates to about three short words of text left. Trying to give the player enough information about the SOLUS Collective (which became the SOLUS Foundation after the war) was a fine balance that ended up getting cut.
Regarding Lazon (and other heroes) stalling when they're supposed to be leaving. I can't do anything about that. It's a crappy MA problem. One of those things you just have to ignore, because he's vital to the story, and CoH still has some bugs even they just live with.
Same goes for New York Gentry's outfit (as well as the other SOLUS heroes). There's a tattered cape option, but no real option for dirtying uniforms or making heroes look war-torn without catering to very limited resources. I'll take another look at uniform options because I'm not satisfied either, but I really think it'll end up being a "live with it" kind of problem.
There is an AV warning. It's in bright red unless I messed it up somehow. I'll double check that, but it should be there. You were probably just burned out on information overload. 
I'll double check the escort problem. You may have caught the mission between corrections since I ran it last night with no such issue. In any case, thank you again - very much - for the kind words, and stay tuned for arc 2.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Ok, I unpublished the second arc until it's been re-vamped. Good things to come.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
OK, both arcs are published under numbers 227331 and 241496. You'll find that Part 1 has been tweaked to make it even stronger, and Part 2 has been completely overhauled. In my opinion it's now as good, if not better, than Part 1 -- but I'll leave that to everyone out there to decide.
Fair warning, these aren't easy arcs, even on Heroic. It was called "The Rikti War," as opposed to "The Rikti Fist Fight," for a reason. Think "Saving Private Ryan" for the CoH crowd.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
A big thanks to Rockslider on Infinity for helping me out with the big bad at the end!
I had to give Part 2 a go, completing the tale I'd started twice before. It was definitely grimmer than Part 1, and got progressively more bleak. The challenges mirrored Part 1, perhaps a little too closely, hopefully you can change one of them a bit.
I do recommend this arc, it's not fun-haha, but it's challenging and heroic, and very well written. It should suit pick-up groups too, assuming they can side-kick to a common level. Or supergroups. For soloers, you'll need to be pretty good against an AV.
The two arcs do stand alone quite well (part 1 more than part 2). Any empathy a player might have for the non-player heroes (and their fates) would come from the first arc.
It's a great way to get your history lesson. I look forward to your version of the Alpha team's efforts next - 80% casualties from 1000 heroes! Clickie... clickie... clickie...
Arc: 379017: Outbroken See all your old friends in the Outbreak Tutorial sequel!
Arc: Coming Soon: The Incarnate Shadow Shard of Fire and Ice Mender Rednem needs you!
Massively.com opinion poll: Please Help Save CoH!
Quoting from my PM reply to Airhead:
"Actually, I've made quite a few notes based on your suggestions and will be making the changes soon.
I'll be using the new "Mission Entry Clues" to flesh out what's going on in both of the #1 missions, and will definitely use the new contact descriptions to fill in some blanks on the contacts and on the SOLUS Collective.
I already have modified dialogue and text written to explain the dead heroes at city hall versus the dead heroes beneath the hospital debris that I think will work once I put it in.
I'll definitely be changing the look of the three recurring bad guys -- who will stay recurring. They die after the second arc, but having them all escape the first time makes the whole Rikti thing more sinister, and helps players build a sense of, "I really want to kill these S.O.B.s!"
I also have text written to play up the sense of hope in "the big plan" at the end.
In short, as before, your review was very helpful and much appreciated."
Since I didn't have time to test I15's MA changes out on test, and their patch notes were vague at best, I'm still figuring out what they've added and changed. Thanks to Airhead and a couple others, I'm getting there and will update for I15 ASAP.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
I have upgraded both arcs for I15 and have made changes based on Airhead's comments and others. Among the changes...
I dropped the defeat all in Part 2, Mission #3, though I still think it made sense for the story. I changed the first mission's location so that I could actually have a desk with a computer. I also changed the overall technical aspects of that mission as well as modified the text and dialogue to compensate. I added beginning clues to the first missions of each arc in order to provide background, and added contact descriptions. Three of the four baddies have been customized. Let's see... I'm sure there's more, but senility runs rampant.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Very, very good story - I love tales of sacrifice and hopeless last stands, so for me this is exactly what being a hero is all about.
Good use of unique maps that ensure your surroundings never feel repetative, and the numerous patrols, ambushes, resuces and escorts make each mission feel very alive, rather than a bunch of enemies lining up to be hit.
It is let down by a few bugs with critter AI, but generally these don't interfere with the mission completion. A lot of detail is given via clues, so if you don't stop to read them, or the rest of the team don't know to read them, they'll miss out on most of what makes this arc so good.
A few times I admit groaned at the increasingly long lists of people to find and/or rescue, but the maps chosen mean everything is usually easy to find, so I only had to hunt for a stray hero once or twice.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Psychoti
"....so I headbutted the blind chick."
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[ cruise / casual-tempest.net / transference.org / xenogamous.com / wytedragon.net / quantam sufficit ]
Having just been involved in your typical negative critique "conversation" (as it were), I think maybe it's time I try to put "The Consequences of War" in perspective.
CoW is written for players/characters who want to feel "heroic," as opposed to those who want to feel "self-important." If I remain true to the canon established regarding the Rikti War (which I have as much as the restrictions of the MA will allow), and if I remain true to the realities of war, then none of our heroes can "save the world" in these arcs.
In fact, Statesman didn't save the world as far as Paragon City's canon is concerned.
According to established City of Heroes history, 4/5 of the heroes alive at the time of the Rikti War were killed. That's 8 out of ten. This war was just like any other war, and that is what I'm trying to convey in CoW.
Not everyone can be a General, and CoW is not about Generals. It is about the heroes in the trenches. It is the "Saving Private Ryan" of CoH, as my wife has said. Because that is the story I'm trying to tell, I had to use heroes I could kill. I also had to create characters for this story that were not so much larger than life, while still making them top rung -- as best as I could.
It was a difficult balance, and one that I had a lot of input on from a variety of sources, including several reviewers who were not always kind, but who did understand what I was trying to accomplish and provided excellent ideas toward accomplishing that.
I am still trying to find that balance, or at least tweak it, because in order for CoW to be a success -- to work -- the player has to care enough about "my" heroes to make their sacrifice one they feel, as people did when watching "Saving Private Ryan."
As I've said, these aren't arcs for people that want their characters to save the world. They aren't arcs for anti-heroes or villains (which is why I've set the morality to "Heroic.") They aren't arcs for farmers or for people that play AE missions solely for the challenge (though they are challenging). They are Story Formatted Mission Arcs (SFMA), with a goal in mind.
As such, there are things that I can't change, as one reviewer and his supporters have suggested. I have scaled back the NPCs as much as I can, but I still have to give them enough face time, and heroic credibility, to make the player believe their sacrifice is worthy. If a player wants his character to save the world, to be the General, I can never "fix" the arc to satisfy that player because it would no longer be what I want it to be.
Because of this, I've been accused of "ignoring" feedback simply because I don't like it. That is just not the case. It's simply a matter of, you really *can't* please everyone all the time, so you have to choose who you are trying to please.
In short, play "Consequences of War" with an understanding that it's about war in the trenches. It's about sacrifice and cost. It is NOT about saving the world. Hero 1 and his crew do that. These heroes only died trying their hardest to let Hero 1 do that.
Some heroes are just that way.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
For the record: I may be Dalghryns wife, but he will be the first to tell you that I am also his most stringent (and persistent) critic.
I state my role because I want it understood that marriage or not, Im anything but his sycophant. (Hell be the first to tell you that, too, if I havent beaten him to the punch. I didnt lose my own mind and opinions when I got married, thankyouverymuch, and I also have no trouble asserting them, also thankyouverymuch.)
That said, I did read the comments by the player review by Infantum which Dalghryn referenced in his previous post and which Ill link to here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....art=34&vc=1
Before I say anything else, Ill say that I, as a player, always appreciate reviews which give me good reasons for why arcs were liked or were not liked, and I sincerely appreciated the time taken to play and comment upon the arc. Beats the heck out of no feedback at all. A review does not help me if I cant understand *why* a reviewer arrives at his or her conclusions. I dont have to agree with a reviewer and I dont expect to (after all, if we all liked the same stuff, thered be two books in the world and one play written by Aristophanes) but I do need to know if we look for the same things.
Frankly, I dont think we do look for the same things, Infantum; I get the feeling you probably prefer villainous arcs to heroic and possibly go for anti-heroes, which I dont. Unconventional heroes, fine; anti-heroes, no. Again, nothing wrong with that preference, but not my cuppa.
One other thing I wondered was whether you were aware of the historical incident which is intended to be illustrated, which is the Rikti attack upon superheroes and bases in which so many heroes died. I get the feeling you may not be aware of that incident, and that may be part of the problem as well. Not something that a writer can do anything about, however, so well set that aside, too. Sometimes, youre damned if you do stick with history and damned if you dont.
Im just going to pull the issues section out of that review and take the points out of order, just for ease of handling, not to try to take anything out of context or misconstrue it.
[ QUOTE ]
The player isn't that important. This might be mitigated just by cutting down the plethora of cameos, but even some of the mission objectives feel weak by themselves. In particular the milk run (which the contact tries to assure you is more than milk run) feels very weak both from its initial presentation and from the fact you could probably just sit at the entrance and wait for the vanguard to kill everything. A less bad [censored] group would help here, or perhaps just lots of optional body bags and very few survivors.
[/ QUOTE ]
SPOILER:
Er, I have to ask: Did you guys run the last mission? If there were any more body bags, Dow Chemical couldnt keep up with the plastics demand.
END SPOILER
Actually, Im only guessing what you mean by milk run, as you dont reference the specific mission, but if its the one with Brinell in it, Ive asked about cutting back the number of Vanguard, too. I think its down to the bare minims as it is, but I could be wrong. This may simply be a case where you run into MA limitations.
The reason for the milk run, by the way, becomes very important in the second arc. For one, it was pointed out to you in the entry popup that its kind of strange that such a secret and supposedly well-guarded facility was attacked. (Read: red flag, and you need it for the second arc, which you didnt run.) Its also needed as a way to work around canon. According to canon and history, the first official translator for the Rikti wasnt available until *after* the first war. Therefore, its important to note (and believe me, when you write an arc, youll find people *will* hold you to it) that what youve got is a prototype translator and how you got it.
Again, it's another 'damned if' situation.
Ill get to the why the player isnt important issue later on, but in essence, this wasnt meant to be an arc where your character is grand, glorious and saves the day. Its intended as an illustrative piece to put a history incident in perspective.
[ QUOTE ]
Far too many meaningless named characters. The amount of cameos in this arc both left precious little spotlight for the player as well as making none of them memorable in the process. I'd cut it down to just the contact, Captain Superior and one reoccuring named helper who dies in the second to last mission.
Why is the player working for Solus? Since this apparently isn't an SG initiation arc despite all appearances to the contrary, I'd highly advise coming up with better hooks and possibly pulling Solus out of the limelight a bit. Maybe make a Vanguard contact instead that has you work with Solus more and more culminating in the same climax.
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This is going to be long, and probably meander a bit, but it covers everything youre asking about here.
In writing, there is a technique called association. The idea is to use a situation or a comparison which gives the reader a schema, or a frame of reference, which allows him or her to relate to (and hopefully sympathize with) a character or a situation in a story.
In this instance, what was chosen to build the schema was for the player character to work with a supergroup. Obviously, supergroup membership could not be assumed without trampling all over the player characters commitments and backstory; thus, why one is assumed to be a freelance hero (or a hero at loose ends belonging to another organization) who is willing to help out this small group.
But why a supergroup, and a no-name supergroup at that? Why not give your player character a chance to be a member of the Phalanx, rub shoulders with Statesman, save the world?
Answer: Because lets face it, the only thing any of our characters would have been doing for the Phalanx at that time or any other is carrying coffee. To me, its not only *not* believable to expect my character to be a member of the Phalanx or other big-name group, it infringes upon canon and game history.
We also cannot change canon or history. The Titanics dead didnt get rescued at the last minute, and 200+ heroes who were victims of that Rikti attack have to stay dead. Period. Therefore, your character cannot save the world in this particular arc. But that wasnt the point of it, anyway.
So, why make the character work with this no-name bunch of superheroes? And why *this* group? Is it just a freebie plug? (You dont say this, per se, but Im assuming youre suspecting it, and hey, I can't blame you.)
To the question of why this group: The Collective was always a fictional group. The *Foundation* is not, but the *Collective* never existed. The reason the Collective was used was because we owned the characters and concept. As such, Dalghryn felt justified (and safe) in using those characters as superhero redshirts.
The same could not be said for any other established canon-lore groups or characters. Besides, for professional reasons, Im hyperallergic to copyright issues, and I would have griped at him ceaselessly about that.
As far as the plug accusation frankly, we dont need it and wouldnt want it. Were pretty picky about membership and we dont, as a rule, recruit.
(Okay, to clarify before I get peppered with buckshot for that comment. Were not snobs; were always happy to play with other RP-friendly people. But everyone seems pretty happy with the current nice, medium-sized stable group. Weve both already run huge groups in other games, and neither of us can afford the time drain or headache of running a massive SG, much less one on two servers, nor do we want to have to deal with the personnel issues which arise from a bunch of unknowns. But I digress.)
I personally think the link should be removed entirely to eliminate this confusion, but it aint my arc, and I leave that up to his discretion. However, the worst hes guilty of here is providing an overload of information.
So, why make the player character work with a supergroup at all?
Because that is what gives us the schema for the events which occurred. Many of us have been in supergroups. Even if we have not, we all have an understanding of the dynamics within such a group. Moreover, many of us have mentored other beginning characters or have been mentored ourselves. Most of us have also been in a situation where weve gotten over our heads and asked for assistance from other members in our supergroup or from members in coalition supergroups. Therefore, a normal supergroup is a structure we all understand. It becomes our schema for the events which then transpire.
It isnt necessary, in this instance, for the character to feel as if they are a member of SOLUS. It is, however, expected that through association, the character can make the leap and think, Wow, how might this have affected *my* group back in those times?
Its also hoped that, through the attrition of those NPCs, that the player can actually get a frame of reference as to how that event could have impacted supergroups at the time. Thus, the number of NPCs listed.
For example, if you tell me that the bubonic plague killed ¼ of the population of Europe, I get the idea that, okay, yeah, a lot of people died. However, if you tell me that its like every fourth person I know dropping dead, I get a much better idea of what the emotional impact of that event probably was.
Again, association and schema. If you didn't have a number of people to start with, the illustration wouldn't work.
The final reason *not* to choose a big group like Vanguard or the Phalanx as the illustrative working group is to add the element of risk.
Lets face it, the Vanguard, no matter how poorly equipped, still had UN backing. It still had more resources and funds than the average SG out there. And the Phalanx? Come on, these are the biggest of the big shots. Could we really feel any uncertainty if we knew we were running with these guys? Besides, we *know* a good chunk of the Phalanx, including States, survived. How worked up can we get over the safety of these people? Answer: we cant.
However, the NPCs in this arc, while clearly of sufficient level to do some good, are also not anybody we recognize as having survived. Clearly, theyre hanging on teeth and toenails, and theyre not too proud to ask for your help. Can you really believe that States is in such poor shape that hes going to go begging your character for help? I really cant believe that either a) my character would be on that kind of professional terms with States or the Phalanx and b) that the egos of some of the Phalanx members would permit it. After all, States may ask you to do his task force, but hes not going to go help you with it. (Heck, he doesnt even help you with ambushes!)
The point is, the survival of none of these characters is assured, especially once the body count starts rolling. To put it back in Titanic terms, most of the big-name NPC groups consist of first-class passengers we know were on the list of survivors. The SOLUS people, on the other hand, are the third-class passengers who were never found or identified. Not only can we believe they can die, we can realize uneasily that, in some respects, there are those among the first-class passengers who may have regarded this bunch as throwaways.
Anyway, as usual, Ive knocked out a book I really didnt have time to write in the first place. Time to set it aside and get back to the baby gift thank you notes Ive been putting off for waaaaay too long.
~Elizabeth
Leave the saving of the world to the men? I don't think so! -Elastigirl
The SOLUS Foundation - http://www.solusfoundation.com
A Liberty-based bastion, seven years strong.
Now you can see why marriage is bliss.
Seriously, though, Elizabeth shored up several other things I'd meant to say in the pevious post, but left out because I was late to work. Rather than re-address the points she made so eloquently, I'll just say a couple things in regard to a couple of specific critiques/suggestions.
First, as a result of E's repeated suggestion and comments made in Talen_Lee's thread, I *have* removed the reference to the SOLUS Foundation's web site. I did *not* include it as a plug, any more than I included the reference to to Paragon City: Alen Invasion as a plug for CoH's site. They were both included as reference for people that wanted more background on the events and characters involved -- that's all.
Second, as a result of a bit of critical feedback on the part of FredrikSvanberg (again in Talen_Lee's thread) and a constructive suggestion by Airhead, I've created an "Original Vanguard" group using another CoH hero organization as its base. The premise is simply that, in its original incarnation, Vanguard had yet to avail itself of the Impervium armor or high tech/magical weaponry. They were simply doing good to recruit people to fill their more primitive uniforms and throw them into the fight. As a result, the organizational structure was different as well.
True, it's playing with canon a little, but the original Vanguard is never really addressed in specifics, and my group adheres to both known canon as well as established history regarding most such groups during war time.
I haven't had time to see if I can come up with the memory to actually *use* them, yet, but I hope to do so tonight.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
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I get the feeling you probably prefer villainous arcs to heroic and possibly go for anti-heroes, which I dont. Unconventional heroes, fine; anti-heroes, no. Again, nothing wrong with that preference, but not my cuppa.
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Not at all, but given you came to that conclusion I'm guessing I wasn't as clear as I could have been with some of my other comments. The problem here wasn't the theme of sacrifice, or the fact that it was Solus making that sacrifice, but rather the presentation of it (which I'll try to cover the specifics of better below)
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One other thing I wondered was whether you were aware of the historical incident which is intended to be illustrated, which is the Rikti attack upon superheroes and bases in which so many heroes died. I get the feeling you may not be aware of that incident, and that may be part of the problem as well. Not something that a writer can do anything about, however, so well set that aside, too. Sometimes, youre damned if you do stick with history and damned if you dont.
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The reason I said this felt more like a history of Solus rather than the history of the war had nothing to do with you getting the events wrong or making events up. It had to do again with presentation. The entire arc revolves around Solus. There is very little (possibly none, I don't have the text in front of me) mention of other super groups, and the rest of the war feels relegated to the sidelines rather than playing an active part in the story. I am not suggesting by any means that you add five other SGs or even one (that would make things worse), but rather as I suggested in my initial review, involve vanguard more, mention the greater war effort more and basically pull Solus a bit out of the spotlight and use them more as an example of what is going on in the greater war (which sounds to be your intent, but isn't how it came across to myself or my roommate who got to listen to me narrate the entire thing for them... well let's leave their opinion out since I'm probably not a great narrator )
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Actually, Im only guessing what you mean by milk run, as you dont reference the specific mission, but if its the one with Brinell in it, Ive asked about cutting back the number of Vanguard, too. I think its down to the bare minims as it is, but I could be wrong. This may simply be a case where you run into MA limitations.
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Given only one mission has vanguard I figured I didn't need to provide any additional details here as to which mission I was referencing. The body bags suggestion was specifically for that mission, obviously you have plenty elsewhere. I wouldn't say you're hitting technical limitations though, a bunch of body bags, a captured vanguard or two and you've got the same effect without the vanguard running around making players feel even more like glorified package runners.
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The reason for the milk run, by the way, becomes very important in the second arc. For one, it was pointed out to you in the entry popup that its kind of strange that such a secret and supposedly well-guarded facility was attacked. (Read: red flag, and you need it for the second arc, which you didnt run.) Its also needed as a way to work around canon. According to canon and history, the first official translator for the Rikti wasnt available until *after* the first war. Therefore, its important to note (and believe me, when you write an arc, youll find people *will* hold you to it) that what youve got is a prototype translator and how you got it.
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I wasn't necessarily suggesting scrapping the mission, hence why I bothered to suggest ways of improving it. The mission offer dialogue could also use work though to better frame the importance of it. As is the contact feels like they're patting you on the head and trying assure you you really are doing something mildly important. Instead, emphasize the heavy fighting in the area, or how this thing is so bloody important that it can only be trusted in your hands. I'd have to replay it to offer anything more specific than that.
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Ill get to the why the player isnt important issue later on, but in essence, this wasnt meant to be an arc where your character is grand, glorious and saves the day. Its intended as an illustrative piece to put a history incident in perspective.
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That's fine, better than fine actually, but again it currently feels like the arc revolves around Solus not the general history. It's good to hear your intent behind this arc, because as I mentioned in my initial review, that's not how it came across at all. It really felt like a dogpile of Solus cameos and Solus related lore that pushed out the general historical theme it was supposed to be a part of.
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In writing, there is a technique called association. The idea is to use a situation or a comparison which gives the reader a schema, or a frame of reference, which allows him or her to relate to (and hopefully sympathize with) a character or a situation in a story.
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You can achieve this with three characters as I suggested. Captain Superior (because of the events at the end), the contact (although he doesn't have to stay the contact) and poor Tommy mauve-shirt who we grow attached to right before he gets waxed. As is you have far far too many characters for me to get attached to any of them. They spend half the arc jockeying for screen time, and thus botch the very writing technique you're trying to employ as none of them end up at all well developed. I would suggest asking yourself this. Other than the three I mentioned, what story purpose do the others serve, or are they just window dressing? Because as window dressing I think they're seriously hurting the story currently.
As an author I can understand why you wouldn't see this. These characters are already developed in your mind, and many of them probably exist as fellow players or your own characters, but to a third party they're all random heroes spouting catch phrases, and after the third or fourth they just start to become little more than distractions from any characters that actually are important to the story.
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But why a supergroup, and a no-name supergroup at that? Why not give your player character a chance to be a member of the Phalanx, rub shoulders with Statesman, save the world?
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I never suggested you not use Solus, or to use the Phalanx for that matter. I think using Solus as the example victim is fine, I think making Solus "the story" rather than "part of the story" is not.
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So, why make the player character work with a supergroup at all?
Because that is what gives us the schema for the events which occurred. Many of us have been in supergroups. Even if we have not, we all have an understanding of the dynamics within such a group. Moreover, many of us have mentored other beginning characters or have been mentored ourselves. Most of us have also been in a situation where weve gotten over our heads and asked for assistance from other members in our supergroup or from members in coalition supergroups. Therefore, a normal supergroup is a structure we all understand. It becomes our schema for the events which then transpire.
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The problem here is that you make the leap of treating the player like a member without much real explanation or justification. The player ends up being a bit of an observer no matter how you cut this, so I don't see how this sort of treatment is necessary to create that atmosphere, if anything it seems to damage it by muddying what the player's actual role is (since you don't actually say they're a member). Vanguard is a good device for explaining why the player is working with Solus, but it would have to be something that was frequently referenced at the very least to have a convincing effect (rather than Vanguard basically dumping the player in the contact's lap).
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It isnt necessary, in this instance, for the character to feel as if they are a member of SOLUS. It is, however, expected that through association, the character can make the leap and think, Wow, how might this have affected *my* group back in those times?
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This will occur naturally, *if* attachment is created to some of the characters, but again right now there are far too many.
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Its also hoped that, through the attrition of those NPCs, that the player can actually get a frame of reference as to how that event could have impacted supergroups at the time. Thus, the number of NPCs listed.
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This can be provided with body bags, textual references and the one mauve shirt who you really get to know just before his brutal death at rikti hands (and of course the events in the finale). Having the plethora of cameos isn't necessary, and drowns out the story currently.
Let me know if I missed anything. A lot of your response revolved around defending the use of Solus, which as I've said I don't think is a problem in and of itself.
Infatum on Virtueverse
@GlaziusF
Playing Part I on a high 40s spine/regen scrapper, diff 2 for ~goodfights~.
Given all the warnings about EXTREME I may have to go grab a Shivan. We'll see.
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Sup Pyron. Slummin'? That's cool, that's cool.
Okay, time for some historiffical fundutainment.
Interesting effect on the Rikti. I guess they haven't bothered fitting their troops with translators yet. But it plays hell with how the engine tries to work linebreaks.
I am continually amazed by how freakin' far a plasma bomb explosion can push you.
Something about the mission complete clue seems a little weird - aren't the Rikti winning BECAUSE they can do things like plant bombs under targets of opportunity? It's also odd to hear about how bad something will be after I've already stopped it.
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Ah well, next crazy war mission.
...you know, I get the point just fine that we can't understand the Rikti language yet without being hammered by twelve bubbles of extended character set. If the patrols have to vocalize, can it just be one of them?
So the intro text seems to indicate that these people are working together, but of course they're contained and separated by the time I actually get to them.
Gnnn. They have a kid. Well, both these guys just signed on to the redshirt brigade.
Weirdly enough the computer that takes the key is surface-side in the office. The mission completes after I free the second ally. Is there some way to force it to the back of the mission?
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a simple courier run. what could go wrong?
Man, how many people keep doing this? Battles Can Start While Heroes Aren't There. Pretending they are just doesn't fly.
Ah, that's why the Vanguard are getting their butts handed to them by the Rikti. They're customs. Nice look, plausibly retro.
You should be aware that the "jeering" animation loop has a part in it where the character jumps up and down like a monkey. I'm seeing the doc's guards doing it.
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Lazon's briefing in the final mission needs some damn paragraph breaks. I realize he's in a bit of a hurry but I still need to understand him.
More jeering from the Rikti in the base.
So the navbar goes "5 Heroes to Find, find Heroname, find Heroname, find Heroname, 1 Hero to Find". I think you want to consolidate 'em a little more.
Escort dude should probably have a different group name than "Cimeroran". He ain't, is he?
The mind controller's find clue seems to indicate she's going off on her own, like Mr. Shine did, but she follows me around.
Kinda ruins the impact of the multi-click clue here when you get it after the first objective you interact with.
Ggh. Experimental laboratory. I hate this room enough as it is without having an ally aggro the other side.
Huh. Okay, judging from the ally clues the mind controller and Gordon are supposed to run off and Mr. Shine is supposed to stick with me. But this isn't what's actually happening.
EB takes out the minder with splash damage. Oh well, this is what insps are for. Fight gets nice and crazy with the ambush.
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Ah. Looks like I just hit a save point.
Hmm. Nice work on the ice hero, really looks like just a pile of see-through polygons.
But, uh, this office has Hellion trappings all over the place. Yeah, I know, there's a terrible dearth of buildings on fire that don't have a bunch of Hellion stuff or low-level gang graffiti laying around.
Godspeed, Mr. Shine. Hope you got to a warship before you went nova.
The boss is something I've fought before, pretty much just a big chief soldier, and the fight is easier than it might be since his help can't actually get past him in the tiny doorway.
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Storyline - ****. The only thing I really take issue here with is the whole "translator" plotline. Rather than them being a Paragon product, the Rikti seem to have developed them on their own, to communicate with the Lost in the years after the war if nothing else. Just having it kind of activate when I hit the right panel on a battlesuit seems a bit weird. Maybe the subplot that gets me distracted can be about some other side-effect of the psionic communications?
Design - ***. The fourth mission was rather a confusing mess as I've documented. The clues looked to be at odds with who was actually following me and who was running for the nearest exit-like substance. Completing the second mission without even going "inside the Rikti base" as it were also seems off.
Gameplay - *****. No real frustrations here.
Detail - ****. Solid all-round, a couple little minor glitches like enemy group assignment and briefing text running together.
Overall - ****. I'm not sure what to do about mission 4, source of my animosity. Obviously there are upper floors that I can't get into for... some reason, but just listening to the hostages and reading the clues gives me the impression that entirely the wrong people are staying behind to help me.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
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Something about the mission complete clue seems a little weird - aren't the Rikti winning BECAUSE they can do things like plant bombs under targets of opportunity? It's also odd to hear about how bad something will be after I've already stopped it.
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I'll take another look at the clue, but it *is* a war, after all. One win doesn't mean things suddenly become all sunshine and springtime. That's the point of the arc.
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...you know, I get the point just fine that we can't understand the Rikti language yet without being hammered by twelve bubbles of extended character set. If the patrols have to vocalize, can it just be one of them?
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This, folks, shows the difference between a *good* review and something else. Feedback that's constructive and actually makes sense. I've had a couple of them already, and they've made huge differences in the quality of my arcs. Good point, Glazius. Consider the Rikti dialogue halved.
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Weirdly enough the computer that takes the key is surface-side in the office. The mission completes after I free the second ally. Is there some way to force it to the back of the mission?
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There are times where the limitations of the MA drive me batshi-. I've debated about forcing this to the back, but since the firewall-blocked computers fall randomly, I really hate making it so predictable. I'll double check the settings on the fake-outs and see if it's optional. If so, then the character can choose to ignore the rest of the computers once he/she finds the file.
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A simple courier run. what could go wrong? ... Man, how many people keep doing this? Battles Can Start While Heroes Aren't There. Preten ding they are just doesn't fly.
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I've completely re-worked this mission since you ran it. We know in advance that the Rikti are attacking, which is why the player's character is being sent instead of a less experienced hero. We also know the battles are already ongoing. I also dumped the Rikti patrols entirely.
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Ah, that's why the Vanguard are getting their butts handed to them by the Rikti. They're customs. Nice look, plausibly retro.
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For this comment alone, you've won my undying adoration. I *just* introduced my "Original Vanguard" group after a rather nasty chat involving a couple of more scathing reviews that did point out that the modern Vanguard would have been anachronistic. You're the first to see them.
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You should be aware that the "jeering" animation loop has a part in it where the character jumps up and down like a monkey. I'm seeing the doc's guards doing it.
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Yeah... I need to find a different animation. I wish there was more variety.
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Lazon's briefing in the final mission needs some damn paragraph breaks. I realize he's in a bit of a hurry but I still need to understand him... So the navbar goes "5 Heroes to Find, find Heroname, find Heroname, find Heroname, 1 Hero to Find". I think you want to consolidate 'em a little more...The mind controller's find clue seems to indicate she's going off on her own, like Mr. Shine did, but she follows me around... Kinda ruins t he impact of the multi-click clue here when you get it after the first objective you interact with... Huh. Okay, judging from the ally clues the mind controller and Gordon are supposed to run off and Mr. Shine is supposed to stick with me. But this isn't what's actually happening.
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I'll take a look at these.
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Escort dude should probably have a different group name than "Cimeroran". He ain't, is he?
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One of the great things about I15 was the addition of a little customizability to standard NPCs, giving us another tool to "create" our own NPCs without having to make another memory-eating custom. In order to free enough energy for the "Original Vanguard" group, I had to dump a custom NPC in each arc and replace him and her with a modified standard. Unfortunately, you're stuck with the original group designation. Prince Nigel IV came from the Cimeroran NPC set - thus, I'm stuck with him being "Cimeroran." It's one of those MA limitations I'll live with.
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Hmm. Nice work on the ice hero, really looks like just a pile of see-through polygons.
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Thanks, I think. On the chance that was meant as a compliment, I can't take credit for this one. My wife designed her and a couple others, but Translucent Girl was the only one I had enough memory to be able to use. The design is really nice, as are all of my better half's costume designs.
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But, uh, this office has Hellion trappings all over the place. Yeah, I know, there's a terrible dearth of buildings on fire that don't have a bunch of Hellion stuff or low-level gang graffiti laying around.
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Best I could do within the limits of the MA.
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Storyline - ****. The only thing I really take issue here with is the whole "translator" plotline. Rather than them being a Paragon product, the Rikti seem to have developed them on their own, to communicate with the Lost in the years after the war if nothing else. Just having it kind of activate when I hit the right panel on a battlesuit seems a bit weird. Maybe the subplot that gets me distracted can be about some other side-effect of the psionic communications?
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I missed where the translators were a Paragon product. Do you recall where you saw that so I can look it up? If so, <insert muted cursing here> I'll look into making changes. Was this the only reason it dropped from 4 to five stars?
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Design - ***. The fourth mission was rather a confusing mess as I've documented. The clues looked to be at odds with who was actually following me and who was running for the nearest exit-like substance. Completing the second mission without even going "inside the Rikti base" as it were also seems off.
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Like I said, I'll look at map placement and see if I can at least force it (and the decoys) back into the Rikti tunnels. I'm also going to clean up the confusing dialogue. Was that all that dropped this to 3 stars?
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Overall - ****. I'm not sure what to do about mission 4, source of my animosity. Obviously there are upper floors that I can't get into for... some reason, but just listening to the hostages and reading the clues gives me the impression that entirely the wrong people are staying behind to help me.
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Part of my goal is to introduce six particular heroes. You'll see why in the second arc. Early versions of the arc had them all introduced in the first two missions, and then recurring later. Unfortunately, that was way to many NPC heroes and way too much firepower. The player character became almost redundant, and boy did I hear about *that*.
So I powered them down and spread them out with just one appearance each in order to redirect the focus more on the player character. While having Captain Superior and Energy Blastion helping in the attack on the base would have been more tactically sound, part of the problem with war is that you don't always have the option of having the best tools at your disposal. That's why the player character's there to help -- a better tool, perhaps?
In any case, thank you VERY much for the constructive and friendly critique. I'll be adding you to my list of people that could teach the Simon Cowell wannabes how to do a review.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
By the way, I've changed both arcs' status from "Asking for Feedback" to "Work in Progress." Several of the potential problems that Glazius pointed out are the result of my having acted on suggestions and missed ramifications of those actions. They'll stay "Works in Progress" until I find all the hiding glitches.
That doesn't invalidate my desire for feedback and reviews, though. Keep 'em coming.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
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I'll be adding you to my list of people that could teach the Simon Cowell wannabes how to do a review.
[/ QUOTE ]
You might also want to figure out how to grow a thicker skin.
You asked for reviews of your story but when the responses came in contrary to your expectations you went on the defensive. And instead of moving on from a "bad" review, this comment makes you look like you're holding a grudge.
Not everyone is going to have the same reaction to your story. Bask in the glow of the praise, accept any suggestions you think will help and ignore the rest. Life's too short.
I have now replayed the first arc and played the second arc for the first time. The retro Vanguard look great and don't outshine my character and walk all over the Rikti anymore, so that's great.
The second arc is much more fun because it seems to be more about what my character does. Even if I'm still helping the Solus collective at least it feels like I'm making a difference - even in the cases where I fail. The first mission felt like it would be impossible for my character to prevent failure, in the third mission I don't even know what caused the failure - possibly the death of an ally.
I don't mind failable missions though.
The real gem in this arc is the second mission: a huge map filled with huge spawns of Rikti, all for me! The people I rescue don't even want to follow me since they have important business to do elsewhere, which suits me fine. I can deal with a few hundred or thousand Rikti on my very angry own. Only one thing would make this mission better; Carnies fighting the Rikti, as canon tells us they were doing during the war. It would also help explain the carnie tents in the far end of the map. It would be cool to have carnie allies for once.
Now I'm going to start the last mission and I hope it's even half as awesome as the second mission. This is approaching five stars.
Ok, the last mission was probably the best use of the demolished Atlas map I've seen so far. I flew around looking for enemies and allies, beating up the few Rikti patrols I could find. I was starting to get irritated about the lack of enemies to slaughter, and the hidden allies, until I saw the glowies. Then I realized what was going on. A few ambushes later it was all over, and the Solus collective had played out its role with unexpected professionalism. Just one thing didn't sit right with me: the end of mission clue which detailed what had actually happened. I would have been perfectly happy to imagine the ends of these npcs myself.
I don't care if there are some flaws in the writing or that the massive number of objectives in each mission initially made me stagger. This was high quality fun in my book. Five stars and I'm prepared to play it again with many of my characters.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
[ QUOTE ]
You might also want to figure out how to grow a thicker skin.
You asked for reviews of your story but when the responses came in contrary to your expectations you went on the defensive. And instead of moving on from a "bad" review, this comment makes you look like you're holding a grudge.
Not everyone is going to have the same reaction to your story. Bask in the glow of the praise, accept any suggestions you think will help and ignore the rest. Life's too short.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're absolutely correct. I did ask for almost every review I've received (or am about to receive). And, yes, one of them incited me to make comments that were defensive. I later retracted that post because it *was* poorly conceived. That doesn't, however, invalidate the comment I wrote that you quoted.
Good reviews don't necessarilly have to be *positive* reviews. They should, however, include not only the criticism, but also constructive suggestions for fixing it. They should also refrain from snarkiness and personal attacks. LaserJesus' review of my earlier version of "Consequences of War" is a perfect example of a fairly negative review that was still *good*. While it had plenty of constructive criticism, it also had its share of suggestions and information that gave me plenty to run with that made my arc far stronger. It was also fairly personable.
Since then, I've had several other reviews that -- positive or negative -- all contributed something new to my arc that made it better.
Unfortunately, not everyone that reviews arcs understands that. They see the fact that they've established their little corner of the CoH world as license to make fun of things they don't like or agree with, to ridicule them and treat the creator with condescension and disdain. They *are* the Simon Cowell's of these boards, and they *can* learn a lesson from people like Glazius, Airhead, Police Woman, Venture (on most occasions ) and others like them. They could be just as constructive, just as personable. They simply have no desire to do so because they like to bask in their Internet anonymity and stroke their egos by playing like they're superior.
The thickness of my skin has nothing to do with it. I don't hold any grudges. Bad reviews by bad reviewers are all part of the game. But, I won't simply shut up and pretend they don't exist just to make them, their fans, or anyone else happy.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
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I have now replayed the first arc and played the second arc for the first time...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you *very* much for the praise. As it has been suggested, I'll just "bask" for a while.
I'll also take another look at a couple things. First, your suggestion about the Carnies. Originally, the Carnies *were* involved in that mission, but as bad guys. Then it was pointed out to me that they weren't bad guys until after the war. Wow, talk about a whopper of an error (the second mission was filled with them at first). I did my homework and read that Vanessa Devore wasn't actually involved in fighting the Rikti until the very end of the war - with the understanding that the Carnival of Shadows wasn't formed until later. I'll look into it again, 'cause if you're right, that'd be a neat tweak.
As far as the ending goes, I've established in personal canon outside of these arcs that these six characters met the end detailed in that mission. That canon has been used by several of my characters as well as quite a few of those I don't own. I suppose I could fudge for the arc, but I'm not certain I'm crazy about the idea. I'll take a look at the text and see if I can come up with something I like.
In any case, thank you very much. Considering the thread we first made contact -- as it were -- I almost feel like I've made a convert. I'm very flattered you like it.
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496
Ok, if they weren't in the beginning of the war I suppose you should keep them out of that mission, but then I suggest you switch the map to something with not so many circus tents 
It's ok if that's the way you want the mission to be, with the clue giving us the death of these characters in detail. Personally I just think it worked fine without that clue to spell it all out for us. Just the keepsakes found on or near their bodies were enough to provoke thoughts of their deaths which will in most cases be better than anything anyone can write. The reader's imagination is often better than anything a writer can come up with. It just needs a nudge in the right direction.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
THE CONSEQUENCES OF WAR
"Played the CoW and I must say I liked it. Especially the fact that I, a common hero try to do my utmost in those dark horrible days. No glory, no songs will be written, no parades, no speeches, just me and my sorrow, me and my duty, me and that tiny part of the war I fought in." - GrinningSpade 2009
"I loved CoW. Most immersed I've been in an arc in years... Also, why the hell isnt CoW a DC arc by now?" - MrCaptainMan 2009
"Very, very good story - I love tales of sacrifice and hopeless last stands, so for me this is exactly what being a hero is all about." - Ebon Angel 2009
"I've never played through a story that made me feel quite so emotional towards the events and eventual outcome than I did with this one." - Mychyl 2010
Arc IDS: 227331 and 241496
Faction: Primarily Rikti
Creator Global/Forum Name: @dalghryn
Difficulty Level: Depends on your difficulty setting, the number of players, etc. With an EB and a scalable AV per arc, it's moderately difficult on lower difficuty levels. Harder on upper difficulty levels. If you ramp things up, it's just wall-to-wall war.
Synopsis: On May 23, 2002, the Rikti invaded Earth. During the war that followed, tens of thousands of civilians, soldiers and heroes sacrificed their lives to save Earth. One group of heroes that made the ultimate sacrifice was The SOLUS Collective. This is the story of the sacrifice made by everyone during times of war, hero and civilian alike. This dual arc was based on the official CoH narrative of the Rikti War and adds greater depth to the time surrounding the Rikti offensive against the heroes that took place about six months after the first war began.
Estimated Time to Play: Again, it varies depending on your difficulty level and the time you spend delving into the story versus simply running through the mechanics.
Since I originally started this thread, both arcs have undergone significant revision and improvement based in large part to a number of reviews by established reviewers in this forum. In fact, these are both actually republications of earlier versions, both of which saw about 40 runs each before they were taken down.
For the benefit of people who might be interested in seeing what others have said about both parts of "The Consequences of War," I'm editing this first post to include basic information about reviews and ratings. For the most part, all criticisms and suggestions for correction or improvement have been addressed, sometimes resulting in minor changes and other times resulting in significant revisions. Those that weren't addressed typically weren't because they conflicted with other suggestions or critiques, leaving me to make a choice between which was best for the arcs.
It goes without saying that the arcs have improved vastly, technically and storywise, both from the days of the first reviews and in some cases from one review to the next.
The Consequences of War
3 Stars - 6/15/2009 LaserJesus ("LaserJesus' Crucible of Unforgiving Criticism")
5 Stars - 6/20/2009 Parkin ("In Your Thread - Stealing Your Reviews")
5 Stars - 6/21/2009 Airhead ("Airheaded Editorials")
2 Stars - 7/7/2009 Talen_Lee ("Arc Reviews 2: The Knockoff")
5 Stars - 7/7/2009 Ebon_Angel (Independent Review)
4 Stars - 7/10/2009 GlaziusF ("CoHMRAggregator")
5 Stars - 7/10/2009 FredrickSvanberg (Independent Reviewer)
4 Stars - 7/20/2009 and 12/12/09 - PoliceWoman ("I'll Play Yours if You'll Play Mine")
5 Stars - 7/25/2009 Lazarus ("Honest Lazarus' Discount Reviews")
5 Stars - 7/25/2009 Citizen_Razor ("Citizen Razor's Attempt at a Review Thread")
5 Stars - 7/26/2009 MrCaptainMan ("MCM's 5-Star Reviews")
5 Stars - 9/17/2009 M_I_Abrahms ("Aentertainment Tonight)
5 Stars - 9/17/2009 Rastafariman ("Aentertainment Tonight")
4 Stars - 10/7/2009 Venture ("Venture's Reviews IV: The Search for Part III")
4 Stars - 10/11/2009 Tangler ("Tangler's Review Thread")
5 Stars - 10/26/2009 Lithrei ("Looking for Arcs to Review")
5 Stars - 03/26/2010 Mychyl ("Yet Another MA Review Thread?")
5 Stars - 10/16/2010 Current MA Rating with 266 runs
The Casualties of War
3 Stars - 6/20/2009 Parkin
5 Stars - 6/30/2009 Airhead
5 Stars - 7/20/2009 FredrickSvanberg
4 Stars - 7/22/2009 re-reviewed 4/29/10 from 3 stars - GlaziusF
4 Stars - 7/26/2009 MrCaptainMan
5 Stars - 8/12/2009 Bubbawheat ("Bubbawheat's Weekly Reviews")
5 Stars - 9/8/2009 re-reviewed 3/31/10 from 4 stars - PoliceWoman
5 Stars - 9/24/2009 M_I_Abrahms
5 Stars - 9/24/2009 Rastafariman
5 Stars - 9/24/2009 WRider ("Aentertainment Tonight")
4 Stars - 10/11/2009 Tangler
5 Stars - 03/31/2010 Mychyl
5 Stars - 10/16/2010 Current MA Rating with 114 Runs
The SOLUS Foundation - a Liberty and Pinnacle SG
"The Consequences of War" - Arcs # 227331 and 241496