Stone [major] tank is something that changes abruptly at level 32.
I'd make both, honestly. One or the other will end up getting cast aside, most likely.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Your tank will be self-sufficient. Your defender will be harder to solo.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
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Generally speaking, Tanks and Defenders are typically the poorest solo ATs in the game. Certainly they can solo successfully, but they tend to have greater value in team situations.
For the two you mention, the tank is probably the safer bet. It may take you a long time to kill stuff on your own, but you'll rarely have to worry about dying in the meantime.
But as others have already said -- roll both. It probably won't take you long to figure out which you're enjoying more.
Actually, I think TA/Arch is one of the better solo Defenders, since most of your primary attacks are debuffs and mezzes that are handy against enemies teamed or solo.
The Stone/Stone tank will be ridiculously slow to solo, even by Tanker standards.
Stone/Ice tanks ftw solo.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
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Stone/Ice tanks ftw solo.
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You sir, are a masochist.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
(QR) I don't have either type of character, but I have friends who do. TA/Archery takes a bit to hit its stride, but once you've got enough stuff, it really is one of the better solo Defs. You'll be safe, and you'll kill things quite fast.
On a team, a good TA/Archery is pretty awesome. But it suffers a bit from lots of folks not really understanding the wide range of debuffs a TA brings to the table. Most people know what Emps, Rads, and Kins do, even Forcefields. TA is less understood.
Note that while TA does a bit of -regen, it can't really consistently lock down the regen rate of an AV. TA is strongest against large groups of enemies. 'course, large groups of enemies are what you'll be fighting most of the time, but you're slightly less useful when it comes to AV fights...compared to, say, the other debuff sets like Dark and Rad.
The benefits of Stone tanking are obvious - everyone knows how tough Granite is. On the other hand, it's a long road to 32 without it. And once you get it...not everyone can play with Granite. The slowdown and debuffs really are quite bad. Sure, a kin can speedboost you, and yes, you can slot enough runspeed and recharge IO bonuses to mitigate Granite's worst effects. But can you count on having that? The first assumes a particular team composition. The second assumes lots of influence. Otherwise you need to suffer.
And you're not that awesome outside of Granite. 'course in Granite, you are the God of Tankers, so it's all relative.
Solo? Well, a Stone/Stone tank will be very safe solo - I mean, you're not gonna get hurt, here...but you won't be killing things fast. Things will take a while - longer than for the TA/Archery. The TA/Archery has debuffs - including resistance debuffs. It will kill things faster than the tank.
So it comes down to what your priorities are.
@Acyl
VIRTUE
Blue: Realpolitik, Leading Lady, Glass Lass, Superball, Alec Kazam
Red: Battery Acid, Obsolete, Bugfix
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And you're not that awesome outside of Granite. 'course in Granite, you are the God of Tankers, so it's all relative.
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I'd say "in Granite, you're the God of not dying." Not dying is the sine qua non of tanking, but it's not everything. I've found my own Stone Tanker sometimes has trouble doing enough to keep the team safe unless they wait around for him. I wound up taking Provoke for the times Taunt is slowly recharging and it would take too long to maneuver over minor obstacles, for example. The team has to slow down so much to work with a Tanker in Granite that I don't entirely blame the team for not always deferring to the Tanker, and thus occasionally getting into trouble.
It's not uncommon for team wipes to occur with only the Granite Tanker left standing -- in those cases, I'm not sure I'd call the surviving Tanker the God of Tanking.
Disclaimer: yes, I know teams need to work with the Granite guys when the danger level peaks, even if they have to adjust their habits. Yes, I do like Stone Tankers and there are some fights for which I really like to have them. Results may vary. This post not applicable where banned by law.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I liked playing my TA Def up to lvl 30. Likewise I've had some fun, off and on, with an Arch Blaster, and a Bots/ TA Mastermind.
In all cases the challenge of TA is the lack of heals and the need to really be on your game as an offender more than a defender. Know when to use a mez, when to debuff and be aggressive on both. And if your plan is to solo you will have to get over the urge to open with your damaging attacks when you need to open with some debuffs.
TA's really shine in a group though. Because solo you tend to have less mobs in a group, your AOE debuffs will either need to wait for them to recycle, rotate who and how you debuff, or slot recharges. I thnk I overslotted my Oil Slick Arrow b/c as soon as it burns out (I ignite it nearly always), I can lay down another.
Mr. O
I am a team heroine, and do not use Archery, but i have a Stone Tank (AOW Cheerleader) and can solo very well. I recommend you try both as well, this will let you get a feel for what your playstyle is.
Rooted, Earth's Embrace, Taunt, Stone Fist, and all 3 Stone Hammer attacks are what i use most. Superspeed also helps. Drop embrace, hit ss and run into the next crowd hit embrace and rooted and voila- speed and effectiveness. Get Stamina (Fitness) as soon as possible (lvl 15-30) Stone tanks are endurance hogs.
You will have to practice recognizing your opponents as well, taunt wont bring in ranged attackers into melee range and since you wont have ranged attacks dont be afraid to drop rooted and embrace to charge right at them.
I always recommend a person try all of the primary and secondary powers, then when you recognize which powers you use and those you see are ineffective to your playstyle, then do your first respec and switch your powers. Adding Epic Powers after you respec will let you choose powers that are obviously going to add to your character - example - if you have tons of defence adding another defence power is pointless, but getting a ranged power and some offence would help.
There is a players guide section and a section for Tank Builds in the Forums, you might want to do a little research.
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Not dying is the sine qua non of tanking, but it's not everything.
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I tend to use the phrase "necessary, but not sufficient."
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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Stone/Ice tanks ftw solo.
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You sir, are a masochist.
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It's like playing a controller that just.won't.die.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
An Archery/Trick Arrow Defender is surprisingly easy to solo. Since you've already tried the tank before, go with the Defender (or should I say Offender?). You will most assuredly be pleasantly surprised at the survivability of the build.
Edit: Glue Arrow > Acid Arrow > Oil Slick Arrow > Blazing Arrow = Win!
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And you're not that awesome outside of Granite. 'course in Granite, you are the God of Tankers, so it's all relative.
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I'd say "in Granite, you're the God of not dying." Not dying is the sine qua non of tanking, but it's not everything. I've found my own Stone Tanker sometimes has trouble doing enough to keep the team safe unless they wait around for him. I wound up taking Provoke for the times Taunt is slowly recharging and it would take too long to maneuver over minor obstacles, for example. The team has to slow down so much to work with a Tanker in Granite that I don't entirely blame the team for not always deferring to the Tanker, and thus occasionally getting into trouble.
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That's a very good point, and I concede the argument - you're quite correct. The recharge and movement debuffs of Granite do seriously affect ability to hold aggro.
It's probably worth mentioning that while a Stone tank in Granite is the toughest thing around, there's few situations in-game where you really need to be that tough. And with the right build and IOs, there's quite a few other tanker types that can approach Granite levels of survivability without the downsides.
@Acyl
VIRTUE
Blue: Realpolitik, Leading Lady, Glass Lass, Superball, Alec Kazam
Red: Battery Acid, Obsolete, Bugfix
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And you're not that awesome outside of Granite. 'course in Granite, you are the God of Tankers, so it's all relative.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd say "in Granite, you're the God of not dying." Not dying is the sine qua non of tanking, but it's not everything. I've found my own Stone Tanker sometimes has trouble doing enough to keep the team safe unless they wait around for him. I wound up taking Provoke for the times Taunt is slowly recharging and it would take too long to maneuver over minor obstacles, for example. The team has to slow down so much to work with a Tanker in Granite that I don't entirely blame the team for not always deferring to the Tanker, and thus occasionally getting into trouble.
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That's a very good point, and I concede the argument - you're quite correct. The recharge and movement debuffs of Granite do seriously affect ability to hold aggro.
It's probably worth mentioning that while a Stone tank in Granite is the toughest thing around, there's few situations in-game where you really need to be that tough. And with the right build and IOs, there's quite a few other tanker types that can approach Granite levels of survivability without the downsides.
[/ QUOTE ]Also, Granite is nowhere near top dog vs. psionic damage.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I am planning on rolling a new toon and I can't decide on either an arch/trick defender or stone/stone tank. I am aiming for a good solo and team player, but also for survivability. That sounds like a stone tank but I have had experience with that before(only to level 21). I can't decide so I am asking for your opinion. Thanks for any replies.