KB's burden on melee toons
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-07 13:30 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Or just do what I suggested a couple pages ago. Make 2 powers mutually exclusive in the same set at the same level. Handclap A for KB and Handclap B for KD.
Um....well I dunno bout everyone else but I use HC. I put some extra disorient IOs in it and so even if they do get knocked back their disoriented and just drunk staggering around.
Whats your problem with it? You dont know how to use it? Oh thats different.
[ QUOTE ]
Um....well I dunno bout everyone else but I use HC. I put some extra disorient IOs in it and so even if they do get knocked back their disoriented and just drunk staggering around.
Whats your problem with it? You dont know how to use it? Oh thats different.
[/ QUOTE ]
... and with HelinCarnate's suggestion, you could do the exact same thing by not switchinig to the no-KB version. People who wanted to use it for the disorient without having to worry about scattering issues could take the knockdown version, and everybody would be happy. He's suggesting the addition of more options, not taking away existing ones.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
[ QUOTE ]
Or just do what I suggested a couple pages ago. Make 2 powers mutually exclusive in the same set at the same level. Handclap A for KB and Handclap B for KD.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, are you suggesting this be done with every power that offers KB now? How about powers that only offer KD now?
I like the idea but it probably isn't as easy as people might think.
QR
Why not just make an inherent toggle that costs .1 end/s that reduces the mag of KB to KD?
Ages and Ages ago.. they went and changed Axe from KB to KD in most attacks, which made my life much easier. However that was a set wide issue.
The thing about Handclap..or Tremor..or Shockwave is there are enough other powers in the set that you don't have to take it if you dont' want to. Granted, in the case of Shockwave it's the T9 and probably shouldn't be optional, in which case make it the T8 and give claws something even more wonderous 
The multiple options suggested above is also good.
However, my Claw scrappers will keep their shockwave as I can do really fun things with it...and if you start at the right distance you can knock outlier mobs to the tank or anchor with it.
Now, about those @#$@ energy blasters 8p
the only real burden on melee is when y ou're playing a tanker or tanky brute and someone in your group constinues to spread the spawns way the hell out with knockbacks.
it's annoying, and i usually ask them to stop. if they dont stop, i dont taunt things knocked away. usually after they've died a few times they quit - or i replace them.
of course having a high amount of dmg on said knockbacks makes it hard for them to not use said powers. just use yer brains - pop said powers if you have a controller/dom/some other -kb immob on the mobs, not before.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, about those @#$@ energy blasters 8p
[/ QUOTE ]
"Good" Energy Blasters will kill whatever they've knocked away from you. As an Energy Blaster, with the exception of Energy Torrent, I can't help it if stuff gets knocked away when I start attacking. Realize that most of the time, the target that's getting knocked away from you is A: not attacking a damn thing, and B: is going to die because I'm shooting it, and you'll be a happier player.
Honestly, all this "knockback hate" gets on my nerves. There are bad players who use secondary effects in a detrimental way all the time and it's not just limited to knockback. Knockback just happens to be the most visually obvious, much like how heals are praised because of the floaty green number spam.
Main Hero : Annilixxion -- Lv50 Blaster
Main Villain : Menkaura -- Lv41 Mastermind
@Laxx
"You will bend to my will, with or without your precious sanity." --Dragon Mage
I like to find the most annoying person on the team and Power Thrust their target all over the map.
>_>
<_<
Personally, I like the existence of powers that can actually modify playstyles. I hate when the game feels like I'm going through an attack chain mindlessly, and could probably easily be played by a bash script.
Knockback powers tend to require some thought to use, and it's a powerful form of mitigation that has a self balancing downside. Just think of how overpowered Storm Summoning would be there was a way to change all the kb into kd. It kinda sucks that when you have a bad teammate with lots of KB they're very notable, but that's what learning curves are for. Tutor them or kick them.
As far as knockback powers within melee sets, I don't think they warrant change. Single target kb is again a form of mitigation that's not troublesome. The only AOE kb powers I can think of are Thunder Clap and Hand Clap, which both have situational use. It would be an outright buff to make either of those powers KD, and neither of them is in a set that remotely needs a buff.
Thunder Clap is Diso only, no KB or KD at all on that one.
Maybe you're thinking of Lightning Clap?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Personally, I like the KB on storm summoning, and can't think of any advantage to changing it.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Or just do what I suggested a couple pages ago. Make 2 powers mutually exclusive in the same set at the same level. Handclap A for KB and Handclap B for KD.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, are you suggesting this be done with every power that offers KB now? How about powers that only offer KD now?
I like the idea but it probably isn't as easy as people might think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably not every power, just the once that people tend to skip because it has KB. There are those that skip AoE attacks because of the scatter.
Explosive arrow comes to mind. Crane kick is another. Some love the KB but others would rather see KU like KO Blow instead. I skpped shockwave on my Claws/WP because it is counter productive to RttC. If I could use KD instead of KB I would respec in a heartbeat.
Those powers that have just KD currently would not change. I would also suggest not changing anything to KD that has a massive KB already built in. The option for Crane Kick to KU makes sence (at least in my little world it does) but most other high KB attacks like TKblast or Power Thrust would stay the same.
[ QUOTE ]
...The only AOE kb powers I can think of are Thunder Clap and Hand Clap, which both have situational use. It would be an outright buff to make either of those powers KD, and neither of them is in a set that remotely needs a buff.
[/ QUOTE ]
My PB's Solar Flare power has irritated a tanker or two. Basically a Footstomp clone with cooler visuals, but does KB instead of KD. It's a power that most PBs use...alot. Yes, I can position myself on the edge of a mob, preferably on the opposite side of a wall, or wait for 'Lockdown'. Another tactic I do alot is wait for another teammate or two to do their AoEs before doing mine - people don't mind KB as much when the flying foes are dead.
It would be sorta cool if there was a way to 'change at will' KB into KD, though...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...The only AOE kb powers I can think of are Thunder Clap and Hand Clap, which both have situational use. It would be an outright buff to make either of those powers KD, and neither of them is in a set that remotely needs a buff.
[/ QUOTE ]
My PB's Solar Flare power has irritated a tanker or two. Basically a Footstomp clone with cooler visuals, but does KB instead of KD. It's a power that most PBs use...alot. Yes, I can position myself on the edge of a mob, preferably on the opposite side of a wall, or wait for 'Lockdown'. Another tactic I do alot is wait for another teammate or two to do their AoEs before doing mine - people don't mind KB as much when the flying foes are dead.
It would be sorta cool if there was a way to 'change at will' KB into KD, though...
[/ QUOTE ]
Playing as my kin, I find grouping with some PBs maddening. One I tend to group with often runs human only and has no option for the knockbacks. Often, they'll wait until I fulcrum shift to start laying in, but if my FS is on cooldown or quite a bit of damage is coming in, knockback happens and there goes any chance to drop an immediate shift or even heal/transference myself.
That being said, I rather like knockback, but hate sets with a near uncontrollable amount of knockback (like the PB footstomp for example).
Fulcrum shift is supposed to speed the party up, not slow it down. If it's on cooldown, go on without it. If it comes up in middle of a fight, judgement call -- throw it now, or save it for the beginning of the next fight? It's a nice buff, but certainly not worth having the team stop and wait.
[ QUOTE ]
Knockback is a very useful tool in many situations. It can be used to situate mobs, mitigate damage, and as an oh [censored]! power to help with a retreat. However, on a melee toon you want your targets in melee range, and knocking a whole mob all around you is terribly counterproductive.
Thats why I feel powers like handclap should be given the same treatment the MM thug bruiser's handclap received. Change the kb component to kd, allowing it to be a kb power if slotted with kb enhancements.
It seemed to me the reason for the change on the bruiser was because it was like having a two year old on your team. He would use it, it would be counterproductive by knocking mobs out of debuffs. It was not a good power for an AI toon.
That was a good idea, and it would be a great change to bring to all like powers. It seems to me the players resolution to getting around this less desirable effect is to skip/ not use the power at all, condemning it as a widely skipped and ignored power.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR
I wouldn't mind if they changed all powers that did knockback to knockdown, except for Nova. That power only makes sense to have it.
[/ QUOTE ] I would. There is no reason to make a major change like that. Especially since it would alter so many peoples established characters, significantly.
[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
Leave my KB alone, especially on all my squishy blasters & defenders.
There may be some merit in changing a mechanic for Tankers (I don't play any Tankers with KB), but for all the other 15-20 characters with it in at least one power, it would change my playstyle a bunch, just for the convenience of others who can't be bothered to move the character forward a few feet (that's even assuming that my KB is what has caused the need to move BTW).
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."