But is it worth it?


Chilling_Temper

 

Posted

Ok I've been in this game for a LONG time, but I kinda dibbled and dabbled in WW and the whole invention thing. Wasnt a big fan AT FIRST, but very slowly as I learned everything I got into it.

Now, I only have ONE set out of all my blasters and thats some Knockback set on my energy blaster I did just for kicks. All the stuff I really want was too expensive at the time. But it just seems that all people talk about in-game is "gotta set this guy out to make him ultra-mega-super" or "Nice sets such-and-such" after clicking on that hero I guess and seeing their info.

Now me? First off I"m a blaster, cant do too much about defense but my main concern is damage. So it would seem to me that I need my powers to be effective vs. having I dont know...3%regen increase from buying a superexpensive set and losing the ACTUAL effectiveness of my power.

Now, this is all my perspective and as it has in the past, it CAN change with the right people helping to give me a DIFFERENT perspective, I'm very open-minded.

So I gotta understand...I lose the overall effectiveness of my power, lets say PowerBurst, because I used an IO set to help increase very small percentages of OTHER stuff?

Guys....Is it worth it? Help me understand. Not at all a flame or complaint. I'm a nice dude. lol


 

Posted

If you look at IO bonuses in isolation, they will seem unimpressive. The key to IOs is that you can stack bonuses to an absurd degree. For example, you might have 60% recharge in your attack now, and a set that gives +5% recharge only has, say, 40% recharge enhancement. That looks like a loss, but you can stack that bonus up to 5 times (+25% rech to everything) and come out ahead in the powers using those sets (+5% more than current slotting) and come out ahead in powers you didn't even slot the IOs in.

It's not just recharge, but +accuracy (better than you can get w/o sets, not to mention it does boost vet reward attacks), +recov/max end (allowing you to fight longer and harder), and +def for survivability. (Some Blasters have managed to hit 45% ranged defense. Saying that's a massive boost is an understatement.)

For actual performance, you simply cannot beat an IO build... unless you're a dev. Now designing a build takes a lot of finesse - it's an art almost. You have to pick focuses (like +rech) and stack for it while at the same time getting as many supplementary bonuses are you can. A random mishmash of bonuses is not the way to go.

Now, is it worth it? That depends, if you alt a lot and don't focus on any character, it would be of less value to you. After all, IOing a character is a significant investment, and not using it would be wasteful.


 

Posted

QR

I must say you should try it at least once.Pick your favorite blaster.Download Mids Hero Designer.Got to the blaster forums and start a thread.When you have a build all figured out start buying and building.

Don't rush it,take your time.Play other toons while you wait on bids,etc to come threw.The markeet is all about patience.


Now once your build is complete,go play that toon.Do TFs or what ever it is you like to do.

Then you will know,once and for all,what an IOed out toon is like.You will not be disappointed.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
So it would seem to me that I need my powers to be effective vs. having I dont know...3%regen increase from buying a superexpensive set and losing the ACTUAL effectiveness of my power.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, there's no need to ever lose effectiveness from a power. In fact, in general, it's common to gain overall effectiveness in powers, especially in terms of "secondary" slotting for things like recharge, endurance, and even accuracy.

IMO, good IO builds end up with the ED "cap" for a power's primary function (such as 95%+ damage on an attack), as well as 45-66% enhancement in each of accuracy, endurance and recharge.

Typically, the only slotting where you might lose out somewhere in the same number of slots is if you happen to have a power fully slotted with well-suited HOs, because HOs have bigger enhancement values per slot.

However, even in the tailored HO case, you usually come out better overall if you also choose set bonuses wisely. It helps very much to decide on something you want and then build for it by seeking out complimentary set bonuses. It also helps to pick something you can build on with your powers - set bonuses are individually small, but a handful of the same type plus a few powers with the same benefit can become highly effective when all used together.

If you're looking at a build that actually sacrifices the effectiveness of slotting in something, you need to ask whether you really need whatever those IOs are giving you for slotting in that power. Can you get it by slotting another set in a different power? Are you netting enough of that benefit to make pursuing it worth degrading a power's effectiveness? How important is that power, or that the power be fully slotted?

If nothing else, IOs are a great way to get levels of simple enhancement that you can't get other ways. Ignoring set bonuses, you can mix and match sets in a power to get really impressive levels of overall enhancement. You can get quite inventive with this - you can really go to town for a long time with 80% endurance reduction in otherwise well-slotted attacks, for example.

If you can find a build that does this and gives you useful set bonuses, then yes, it really can be worth it. IOs can absolutely transform your character's level of performance. The important question is whether that's important enough to you to strive for the build. Poring over a builder isn't for everyone, nor is sifting the market looking for good deals on popular IOs (or alternatively, gathering up enough Reward Merits or MA Tickets to obtain the goods that way). However, if you do attain the build, I think it's very likely you'll enjoy it if you enjoy your character now.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

In addition to what the others said, remember that IO set bonuses can let you enhance your character in aspects that are normally difficult to do so (e.g. +Defense for a Blaster) and they're not bound by the ED cap, so even small values can be significant.


 

Posted

AHHH! I think I'm gettin what you guys are saying now!

So if I try and focus on maybe ONE type of bonus it makes life a lot easier in terms of maximizing IO's and rebuilding my hero! You know what I kinda figured that!

Ok so you guys have convinced me and I'm gonna do it. I got a lvl 50 energy blaster just waiting to be tested and I"m currently runnin AE missions, selling, etc. to gain inf. to buy stuff. Now the only question is as a blaster, do I go for maximum offense and whatever bonuses that come along are icing on the cake, or go for defense because I'm made of wet tissue paper?

Either way I'm lookin forward to it and I'll keep yall updated. Thanks again to everyone, that was a BIG help.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Now the only question is as a blaster, do I go for maximum offense and whatever bonuses that come along are icing on the cake, or go for defense because I'm made of wet tissue paper?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some blasters opt for +Damage, so all of their attacks hit harder.

Some blasters opt for +Recharge, so they can use their most powerful attacks more frequently.

Some blasters opt for +Defense (usually Ranged), or +Resistance, or +Regen, or +HP, or any combination of two or three of those, or even all of them, to improve their survivability.

And some don't pursue a specific set bonus, they use set IOs to slot their powers as well as possible with the fewest number of slots, which allows them to use those extra slots in other powers or for other benefits (like Range or Knockback enhancements).

Look at your build and your play style and see what looks fun, effective and most compatible with you. Download and use Mids' planner to try out different things without burning up respecs or inf*. Check the prices on IOs and recipes (in the game) before you solidify your plans, so you can be certain you're not respecing into a build you can't afford or play at its full potential. Keep track of your merits and/or tickets and use those to acquire some recipes.


 

Posted

i can say much more then whats said in this thread already, but i set out all my toons. Sets help get what a toon doesnt have and make what they do have better. it is a skill though and takes time. i think it took me a good 3 months of playing with mids and different builds to finnaly get it right.

What kind of energy blaster. i have several energy blaster builds for my energy/mm that focus on different things. +rech, +def, +dam and all with capp'd health. i think i already posted one in the blasters forum for somebody, but if you tell me what kind i can pm you these builds so you can kinda take a look at how you could set it out and see the numbers that makes a difference.


 

Posted

I like to pick 3-4 bonus types to go for. On my Claws/SR, here was my priority list:

1. Defense (to get soft capped)
2. Recharge (for a good attack chain with minimal attacks)
3. Recovery (because even though claws is cheap, spamming attacks is not)
4. Regeneration (so I don't have to kill my dps using Aid self all the time)

I also picked up +23% acc and +11% damage incidentally.

So pick a few different bonuses and go for them! IOs will *not* make you weaker unless you really want them to...and I think that'd be hard to do.


 

Posted

Oh it is worth it.
It's also a game in itself if you are the 'tweaker' type. I actually love staring at Mids for hours at time planning builds for chars not even out of the creator yet!

One thing I like to do as a starter, is to find what power I could emulate using IOs on the character.
Can i fit easily a -KB IO somewhere instead of Acrobatic? Can I fit a stealth IO instead of the power Stealth? Kismet +ToHit is 1% short of an unslotted Focused Accuracy, but without an actual endurance cost but for the power its slotted in.

Later in the process (Later in design and affordability) I found it sometime viable to see if you can gather enough easily obtainable (for a blaster) +recovery. Paired with an end support power like Conserve Power and the +Recovery Uniques IOs and forgot about Stamina completely.

That is the way I work IOs into my chars. I keep a global view of the character instead of focusing on a specific top rated bonus like Recharge or Defense.

Many very powerful build are crafted this way of course, but at the expense of powers effctiveness alot of time, having to use 'mule' powers and slots to achieve the desired stats.

I perfer using IOs to have the maximum amount of different powers at my disposal and have all those powers effectively slotted.

Same IOs, different strategy, lots of fun!


 

Posted

Nethershock, your idea is what first popped into my mind. LOL Almost all 4 of those bonuses I thought about honing in on,and I figured, why not go for defense. And Illicity you DO have a good point. Seems I should have a good overall view of what I'm trying to get the most of out of my guy.

Hey Galactic, he's an Energy/Energy blaster, lvl 50, and I may have just under 100 million influence out of all my heroes. And although it almost goes against my "anti-number crunching, heroes just wanna have fun" philosophy lol, I'm at the point now where its getting interesting to see what my guy could become.

Also, I DO have a respecc, on either builds for this guy, I'm lookin to just start from scratch.


 

Posted

Recharge and Positional Defence are the two types of set bonuses that seem to give consistently good returns for me.

Thunderstrike (Ranged Damage set) gives you +2% Recovery, +7% Accuracy and +3.75% Defence vs Ranged and Energy/Negative attacks per full set. And some movement boost to boot.

It's base statistics (ie the bonuses to that power from the actual enahncements) are around +95% Damage, +55% End reduction, +55% Recharge and +55% Accuracy. Much better than 3 Damage, 1 Acc, 1 END Redux and 1 Rech SO.

Its not a rare set, so recipes typically sell for 1/4 to 1/2 million, and no rare salvage is involved.

Start getting 3 (or 4 if you include Power push) sets of that in your single target blasts and you'll really notice the difference.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I like to pick 3-4 bonus types to go for. On my Claws/SR, here was my priority list:

1. Defense (to get soft capped)
2. Recharge (for a good attack chain with minimal attacks)
3. Recovery (because even though claws is cheap, spamming attacks is not)
4. Regeneration (so I don't have to kill my dps using Aid self all the time)

I also picked up +23% acc and +11% damage incidentally.

So pick a few different bonuses and go for them! IOs will *not* make you weaker unless you really want them to...and I think that'd be hard to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nether plays Scrappers. Don't listen to him.

Anyways, defense on a blaster is nice. I'm up over 33% S/L on my 50 blaster.


Adversity
@Chilling Temper - L50 B
Candela - L50 PB
Caustic - L50 C
Crystallizing - L50 T
Crippling - L43 D
Animosity
Caex - L50 B
Psilencer - L37 F
Cooldown - L35 C
Q.Q - L19 S

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Nethershock, your idea is what first popped into my mind. LOL Almost all 4 of those bonuses I thought about honing in on,and I figured, why not go for defense. And Illicity you DO have a good point. Seems I should have a good overall view of what I'm trying to get the most of out of my guy.

Hey Galactic, he's an Energy/Energy blaster, lvl 50, and I may have just under 100 million influence out of all my heroes. And although it almost goes against my "anti-number crunching, heroes just wanna have fun" philosophy lol, I'm at the point now where its getting interesting to see what my guy could become.

Also, I DO have a respecc, on either builds for this guy, I'm lookin to just start from scratch.

[/ QUOTE ]


If you decide to solo more than team at level 47+ then consider +Rech bonuses for Energy/Energy. Besides DPS, you will also have a greater stun magnitude and chance to KB per fight.

Both, in effect, also function as +DEF(all).


Repeat Offenders

 

Posted

What I would recommend to "convince" yourself that its worth it is to do a little frankenslotting. Slot a bunch of relatively inexpensive triple aspect IO's into your main attack powers. If you put in a bunch of Acc/Dam/End, Acc/Dam/Rech, and Dam/End/Rech, you'll end up with ED capped damage, and lots more Acc/End/Rech than you could ever get without inventions.

After grooving to that for a while, I would probably recommend designing towards enough recharge so that you can use only your biggest guns all the time (PowerBurst, PowerBlast, BoneSmash, TotalFocus), and as much Ranged Defense as you can possible muster. Knock 'em down, then melee while they're getting up, then run back to ranged and have them miss you a bunch. If you make use of many long recharge clicks, like powerboost, conserve power, etc. then you might go even heavier +recharge. But, if you can get your ranged def to around 40%, that's like having 4x the hitpoints on a blaster.


 

Posted

obviously enough, no one answers the OP in true words.
IO recipes givin' + bonuses are related to what kind of playing you look for.

And any serious hardcore toon need Bonus IO's.

But, at what LVL?

I m not into builds, aka, i dont read build forums, but 1 thing i know for sure: IO bonuses should be picked up at lvl 30, then completed with HO's.(thats why lvl 33 recipes are expensive, meannig, at 30 you can use 33's.)
exemple 1: you are 47/50, u want to play /replay all TFS from citadel(30) to stf: with a 33 IO bonus build, you are exactly bonused the same way on a lvl 30 citadel that on a STF.(from your available powers)

exemple 2: you want to PvP? all your bonuses (from the actual available powers you can use) will still give you the same bonuses.

and so forth.

The extra slots , depending on your needs, will be provided by HO s and or other recipes to reach all your caps.


 

Posted

Level 33's are mostly popular because level 30 is the cap for one of the PVP zones (Siren's Call.) And, having paid people to produce a few dozen level 33 IO's, level 50s (or max level for the set) are both more valuable and move faster.

To the OP: If you choose to frankenslot, as per Miraj's advice, here's something from my guide that turned out to be worth keeping. (The guide is old, and nobody really knew what they were doing yet. Not everything in there really works.)
[ QUOTE ]

Acc/dam/Rech (Thunderstrike)
Acc/Dam/Rech(Ruin)
Dam/Rech/End (Thunderstrike)
Dam/Rec/End (Maelstrom's Fury)
Damage (generic)

[/ QUOTE ]

You can slot this from about level 32 on, picking level [say] 34-37 IOs by cost and availability, and get "one acc, three dam, two recharge reduction, one end reduction" worth of bonus. Last time I priced it out it was about a million and a half for all five IO's.

If you want to "start cheap" you can do that. I recommend, even on a cheap build, about 15% Acc bonus (so, for instance, two sets of four or more Thunderstrikes) and an anti-knockback IO in something like Hover or Combat Jumping. The anti-knockback IO (for Defense, the set name is Karma) will cost in the "Five to thirty million inf" range- haven't bought one lately- and the rest of the build will be about the same.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

Fulmens, u seems to forget that one of the best issue gave a player 's abbility to play the content FROM a 50 point of view, aka Ouro.

So i ll stand up my ground and add a few remarks: do not put the purp lines into big powers, but in the early ones, as they are uniques; and therefore will be 'bonusing' ur alt from the very begenning.
2/ i hardly pvp, but i can solo a AE hard mish, or a citadel SOLO with these builts.
(ok, its only 40 merits).
my point here is: having + 40 acc + 40 rech + 40 recov at lvl 30 in all active powers is key.

well, i mean, that how i do, i got significant results.

I dont trust the non bonus-maxer 'per power' build any relevant. but once again, this is just me.


 

Posted

Ok thanks guys I just went back and read all the new posts.

To City_Life, I had NO idea the IO's worked like that. You just schooled me to something I didnt know about lvl 30 and IO's. I've always just waited til at LEAST after 40 to do it.

And then Miraj and Fulmens just put me on to something ELSE I had never considered...frakenslotting.

I've done it SORTA, with just generic IO's that do one particular thing like DAMAGE. But you guys I never realized you could reach capped ED for damage if you put in IO's that do more than one thing. And stupid me for not actually paying attention to the numbers and doin a little math lol.

I usually skip over those triple or double aspect IO's and go for generic ones unless I'm goin for the full SET. So THATS what yall mean by frakenslotting! I'm writing what I want down as we speak lol. Thanks again CoH forum community.


 

Posted

Sets are great. There are several different thoughts on how and when to use them. To give you an idea lets take a set.

Decimation. This set caps at lvl 40 and if you slot everything but the proc you will get this.

Acc- 62.73, Dam- 89.17, End Reduc- 43.43, Rech- 62.72
with the following set bonus.
Hp. +13.6, End +2.25, Mes Resist (Immob) 2.75%, Rech +6.25%

Now slotting that set at lvl 25
Acc- 52%, Dam- 75%, End Reduc- 36%, Rech- 52%
with the same set bonuses.

Now why slot 25s when you can slot 40s? Depends on your desire. The instant you hit 22 you can put in 5 SOs to get.
2 ACC= 66.6% 3 DAM= 94.93

So for sacrificing 14.6% Acc & 20% Dam you get better end consumption and better rech (which increases DPS) plus the global bonuses.

Now you can keep the 25 Sets or upgrade when you wish.

This come to view with 3 powers 5 slotted with this set.
That gives- 6.75% Max End, 18.75% Global Rech, 40.8 Max HP

Keep in mind what you do with your toon. I know a guy who slotted lvl 18 sets in power becuase he ran the posi TF a lot.

So its a matter of what you do. But set bonuses can def make a difference. Keep in mind with 2 builds you can make a low level set toon and a high end set toon.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Sets are great. There are several different thoughts on how and when to use them. To give you an idea lets take a set.

Decimation. This set caps at lvl 40 and if you slot everything but the proc you will get this.

Acc- 62.73, Dam- 89.17, End Reduc- 43.43, Rech- 62.72
with the following set bonus.
Hp. +13.6, End +2.25, Mes Resist (Immob) 2.75%, Rech +6.25%

Now slotting that set at lvl 25
Acc- 52%, Dam- 75%, End Reduc- 36%, Rech- 52%
with the same set bonuses.

Now why slot 25s when you can slot 40s? Depends on your desire. The instant you hit 22 you can put in 5 SOs to get.
2 ACC= 66.6% 3 DAM= 94.93

So for sacrificing 14.6% Acc & 20% Dam you get better end consumption and better rech (which increases DPS) plus the global bonuses.

Now you can keep the 25 Sets or upgrade when you wish.

This come to view with 3 powers 5 slotted with this set.
That gives- 6.75% Max End, 18.75% Global Rech, 40.8 Max HP

Keep in mind what you do with your toon. I know a guy who slotted lvl 18 sets in power becuase he ran the posi TF a lot.

So its a matter of what you do. But set bonuses can def make a difference. Keep in mind with 2 builds you can make a low level set toon and a high end set toon.

[/ QUOTE ]
i actually sell deciamations to the random shop.
Though, u got it right: better have something from anything.

i recall behing the first 50 fire kin cor on cov. we had nothin to play with, but the game we had.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
So i ll stand up my ground and add a few remarks: do not put the purp lines into big powers, but in the early ones, as they are uniques; and therefore will be 'bonusing' ur alt from the very begenning.

[/ QUOTE ]

You never lose set bonuses from purples, no matter what level you exemplar to. Even level 1.

You don't lose set bonuses from other IOs unless you exemplar more then 3 levels below the level of the (actual slotted) IOs in question. If you slot level 33 set IOs in, say Inferno, and then exemplar down to a level 30 TF/arc, you will retain your set bonuses even though you lose access to Inferno.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Man I'm so glad you dont lose those set bonuses when you exemp back down. I just had somebody in game last night askin about that.

Sagamemnon I've now learned that maybe the low end/high end toon is an option as well. It helps to know that I can maximize my hero earlier on. And yeah I wouldnt mind sacrificing a little bit of dam or acc for the end and rech, that example you gave would definately be something that I would do, at least until I reached maybe lvl 40 then I'd probably switch it up a lil bit.

oh and man I been doin a little more pvp'in lately and wow! I'm not that good at it. But I feel like if I could simply last longer I'd be in good shape. gonna go look up what I can do for defense.


 

Posted

I'm glad the advice given by people here has helped open your eyes a bit STL.

Personally I slot sets at lvl 22 (Slotting Lvl 25 sets) It helps a lot on the road to 50. Which for me is the best part. Again not everyone's play style is the same. I also do a lot of TFs in the low range and like the set bonuses. I don't really lose much in the way of powers compared to slotting lvl 50 sets and when I malfactor I have no worries about losing valuable set bonuses. Having 70% global rech on a lvl 25 toon is fantastic.

I should also re point out that you get the set bonuses even if you don't have that power. So you could put lvl 25 sets in an epic power and still get the bonuses when you mal down to 22.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your new found bad [censored]-ness!!


 

Posted

Sagamemnon said, earlier:
[ QUOTE ]
So for sacrificing 14.6% Acc & 20% Dam you get better end consumption and better rech (which increases DPS) plus the global bonuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

At some point your DPS is limited by power activation times, which never go down. So when you cut 20% damage bonus out of a power, you pretty much never get it back.

... of course, you could 6-slot with five Decimations and one, I don't know, Acc/Dam/Rech from Ruin.

STL: Welcome to the cheap-but-effective side of the force.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.