Discussion on the concept of "grinding"
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2009-05-28 08:09 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Grinding isn't necessarily related to rewards. Back during the AE farming craze, I found meow farms to be much, much more of a grind than soloing my Kin/Rad defender today, even though one got me levelled up far quicker.
When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.
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When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.
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I agree. And this game is a grind for me up until at least around level 25 on any given character.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.
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I agree. And this game is a grind for me up until at least around level 25 on any given character.
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Depends on the way you look at it. I don't see it as a grind, I see it as a hilarious challenge to try desperately not to die.
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every MMO is about grinding.
the trick to if its fun or not is sugar coating.
if the grind is sugar coated just right, you dont really notice you are grinding.
the secret to a good MMO is making your grind with just the right amount of sugar coating.
when i first started COX the game was just so much fun and so neat to play i had a sweet time playing and never really noticed the grind at all.
but now that ive played COX for many years ive gotten used to the sugar flavor and the im very aware of the repetitive grind of this game.
i can only play COX in small doses these days, like an hour or two a day and I am constantly switching which characters I play to try to keep variety. Ill do one mission with one character, then switch to another character and do a different level/zone mission.
the problem with COH is that its all about your super powers and nothing really else. and you only get super powers through grinding levels.
there is the grind to 20 until you get stamina and your travel powers set up. i hate this grind, not having stamina is horrible.
then there is the 20-32 grind until you get your lvl 32 power. (this grind takes so long you can prob divide up into two grinds by the time you get to lvl 32 its like OMG finally)
then there is the 32-38 grind when you get your highest secondary power. the level 30's are some of the longest grinds in the game.
then there very very long grind to lvl 50.
so i find the grind is more apparent because I always have some set goal/level that I want to reach that keeps my mind on the XP bar all the time like watching a pot waiting for the water to boil.
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This is an interesting post, and it brings up something that I was thinking about. From your post, the entire game feels like a grind, and you admit that you've become accustomed to the taste of sugar. From everything you've posted, it sounds like you're finally tired of the game and burned out as you see the entire game as a grind.
Why do you play it that way then? I'm really interested in someone actually sitting back, asking themselves "why am I still playing?", and honestly answer that question.
I'll answer it for myself, as I've reached the point several times in several games where I felt it was all a grind. I was doing it out of habit. At some point almost every day, I'd log onto the game to have fun and socialize. At one traumatic period in my life when I became widowed, I logged in because the repetitive nature of grinding occupied my mind for a few hours and let me forget my grief. Those sessions turned into habits. It was something I was used to doing. When I did decide that I wasn't actually having fun anymore, and was instead just killing time, I still logged on and grinded because I didn't know what else to fill my time with. I'm curious why other people who are exhibiting burnout and are obviously tired of the game still play. For the same reason as me? (out of habit). Or for some other reason?
Is there any intention to resolve that? Obviously, continuing to play and grind isn't going to make the game gradually more fun again, so what are your long-term plans? Play until even getting quick 50's or purples isn't fun anymore and then quit? Take a break and come back?
Like I said, I'm curious as to why someone who finally admits that they've lost enjoyment of the game and just grind through it... still play. I'm not being negative or condescending when I say this, as I've done it too, and still do it at times. I just think it makes for an interesting discussion that has the potential of changing perceptions and possibly even restoring fun again.
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I got two reasons for you. Yours was good. Habit.
But the second is the REAL clincher. Friends. I got friends in CoX. Long time friends now. I log on to hang with them mostly. If they aren't on i might just log off. If i do stay on... i might solo a few missions with one of my 50s before grumbling and logging off.
Oh. And to me all of CoX is a grind now. I have been here a long while. I don't even read stuff anymore. I just blow through story arcs like they are paper/scanner missions. I have seen them all before.
AE changed that a little bit. Having made missions i am more respectful of the effort. So i tend to read a bit more. Darn near everything if i am in an AE mission.
I still haven't done half of the canon content in this game and they keep releasing more, maybe that's why it doesn't feel like a grind.
Yay for being behind!
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When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.
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I agree. And this game is a grind for me up until at least around level 25 on any given character.
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Generally I agree with this which is why I try to focus on enjoying the story arcs until then and distract myself from working my way to 25.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.
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I agree. And this game is a grind for me up until at least around level 25 on any given character.
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Generally I agree with this which is why I try to focus on enjoying the story arcs until then and distract myself from working my way to 25.
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Oh, so true... for me the game doesn't even start until about level 22. Up to that point it's all about "getting the character to a level where he's fun to play" and that's about it.
I don't "play" low-level and new characters, I invest time in them in the hopes that they'll be fun to play later. Often they are... but sometimes they're not and then they just feel like a colossal waste of time.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
This incessant "grinding" is evil...... EVIL I SAY! We must stop all of the grinding, it is an affront to THE LORD!
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I only think something is a grind if I don't enjoy doing it.
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I so agree with this statement. Many here complain that they hate the lower levels because its the same thing over and over and it takes so long to get to the "GOOD" stuff. Frankly I don't see that at all. There are far too many ways to level these days and anyone that does the exact same content repeatedly with every alt they create is doing so by their own choice. Come out of Outbreak at level 2 and you can..
Hit your assigned contact and do door missions
Find a sewer teams and level quickly that way
Head to the AE building and do nothing but brand new player created mission
Okay now you levl 5, 6 whatever..
Head to the Hollows and run arc there
Do missions from the contacts assigned to you
Do nothing BUT radio missions and get your raptor pack
Now you have hit around level 10...
Again do missions from normal contacts
Again do radios and gain your jump pack
Do the Midnighter club arc and get it out of the way
Do the Positron TF followed by the Synapse and avoid all of that other stuff since you have now hit around 20 level.
At this point you now have numerous options..
Contact mission again
Radio missions again
Sister Psyche TF
Head to Striga and avoid Talos and IP for quite a while by doing contact mission there
newly adde head to the midnighter club and do missions from there
At 25 add in Croatoa and don't forget as you continue up in levels you now have the Moonfire TF, Hess TF and the Citadel TF to help get you to 30
Oh I almost forgot.. At 20 add in your cape and costume missions so you can take a little time and enhance your character;s apearance.
Now let's add in the events... which can be played at any level. Halloween ToTing and battling Eochia and Jack in Iron (when you can actually find the latter). Valentine [Spring Event} and you can run missions out of Pocket D facing Snaptooth and the Redcaps. Winter event again in the Chalet portion of Pocket D and you face Tautha, Redcaps and Snaptooth once again. How many have gained considerable levels doing these? Now let's throw in Rikti Invasions and Zombie Invasions with offer up added badges (and one pretty good accolade)
We have only gotten as high as level 30 but already we've seem quite a bit of diverse playing we CAN do if we want it. And I haven't even mentioned the first respec trial yet (opps just did LOL)
Between 30 and 40 we have added TFs in Manticore and Numina along with the Eden Trial. at 35 we can now get into both the RWZ and Cimerora for even more content and eventually an additional 2 Task Forces. Oh and now we also have Ouroborus so we can go back and pick up any content we missed, badges we missed, and run even more new content including short TFs out of there.
All of this has occurred before level 40 and arriving on Peregrin Island where supposedly the game gets "INTERESTING". And yet until the whole MEOW Farm fiasco occurred with the addition of the AE buildings this is also where most of the farming and PLing occurred.
There are far too many ways to play this game for it to ever be truly a grind and it always struck me as funny that older players complained about not wanting to do the GRIND of lower levels so they farmed or PLed to get to the higher ones but as soon as some arrived there .. their idea of FUN {?} was to do the same mission over and over on an 8 man team to see how fast they could get to 50.. and then complain.. "I'm a 50 level now there is nothing left for me to do." lol Its only a grind if you let it become one...its a game HAVE FUN
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
Who cares? Just play the way you want to.
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I so agree with this statement. Many here complain that they hate the lower levels because its the same thing over and over and it takes so long to get to the "GOOD" stuff.
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I find the entire game to be largely the same thing activity-wise. The "Good Stuff" would be powers and enhancements that make doing those activities less irritating and tedious.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
The grind...
I've experienced it while on some Shard Task Forces (Dr. Q, I'm looking at you!), occasionally the Positron Task Force, and farming Master Illusionist Pets for the Arch-Mage accolade.
Repetitive activity for an ingame reward, which makes me bored and irritated. In other circumstances, without that carrot, I'd call it a day, and do something else. But that damn carrot...
Or, I've gone this far, so let's just finish it....
However, most of my time in City is grind-free, as I find something interesting to do. That activity may be repetitive, but as long as it entertains me, I don't mind.
If it's entertaining, the reward can be inconsequential.
www.paragonwiki.com is a great source of information for this game.
New or returning to the game? Want advice from experienced players who want to help YOU?
The Mentor Project: Part of the New Player Council.