Should I take dual weild and Empty Clip for Thugs?
By
Ang_Rui_Shen,
Posted on: 2009-05-23 14:31 in Masterminds
I assume you are in the process of leveling up. Try em out and see if you like it, you can always respec out later. I got dual wield on my MM. It's just plain fun pulling em out and firing. 
On the other hand my undead and ninja MMs don't have the attack powers and rely on their pets.
I really like the Empty Clips animation, but I can't justify taking it, because post-20 or so MM's personal attacks drop drastically in effectiveness (unless you slot them, which is a waste of slots) and the End cost is disproportionate.
I did take Dual Wield though, and still keep it in my build for those occassions when I do a low level arc in Oro or if I mal down, because...
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It's just plain fun pulling em out and firing.
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...and it looks really cool 
Thugs/Pain is pretty hard on your end bar. I'd suggest skipping your blasts, unless you want the pistols for cool factors. They kind of suck.
Avoid the personal attacks, and make a dual pistols character who can do something useful with them when Going Rogue comes out.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
You can make good use of the dual build feature and have it both ways.
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You can make good use of the dual build feature and have it both ways.
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This.
On my second build for my Thugs/Storm, I chose all the personal attacks, most of the /Storm powers, Maneuvers, Tactics, Assault, Tough, Weave, and the only pet I got was the Bruiser.
It was pretty epic. And freaking fun, in a kinda weak, lol type way.
It depends. I took Slug and eventually Burst on my Merc/FF so I actually had something to do in between applying bubbles.
Here's a sort of 'rule of thumb' I use when playing Masterminds:
I always take the second tier single target attack. I rarely bother putting many slots into it, but I take it. It makes the early part of the game go so much faster when I can add just a little more damage. Eventually I stop using it, as I usually have other things I could be using that would be more effective over all, then my weak attacks. I rarely respec out of it, though... I generally find I have nothing I want that freeing up one power is going to alow me to get.
If I'm playing /Force Fields, I try to work in at least one of the other attacks, and actually slot them as attacks. Otherwise, I would fall asleep at my Keyboard.
If I'm playing Necromancy/, and my secondary ISN'T /Dark Miasma or /Pain Domination, I try to work in Life Drain, and treat it more like a self heal than an attack.
If I'm playing Robotics/, I try to have Photon Grenade by the time I can get Upgrade Robot. I slot the power more for Stun than damage. This is may just be a personal indulgence, though... I like to participate in my Robot's massive alpha barrage... and with so many stun powers being thrown about, targets are likely to end up dazed, rather than respond.
I can't think of any other circumstances where I'd recommend taking more than one of your personal attacks.
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I took the second tier blast on my robots mm, it has a decent chance to knockback so it can be useful at times. Dual wield and empty clips also have knockback but I don't think the chance for it happening is very high.
I may be in disagreement with every other post in this thread, but I say take Empty Clips. It's not the damage, although that's okay for an MM, but, the knockback is VERY useful for mitigating damage. It can also draw aggro, if you want to use Bodyguard and take the alpha strike. The end cost is easily countered with an End reduction.
Whether or not you want to take any other attacks is entirely up to you. They can help through the 20s, but after you get to 32 they are no longer needed. You can keep them for the cool factor, or for the ability to take out a foe that is almost dead.
Both Empty Clips and Dual Wield have the chance to do knockback, but with Empty Clips if you fire into a large enough group, you have a good chance that at least one of them will be knocked back every time. As a Mastermind, large groups shouldn't be a problem for you, even solo, so I say go for the Empty Clips.
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Thugs/Pain is pretty hard on your end bar. I'd suggest skipping your blasts, unless you want the pistols for cool factors. They kind of suck.
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I haven't really had any problems with end on my thug/pain. Course, I got lucky and picked up a performance shifter +end proc off a longbow nullifier on one mission, which was handy, so I dropped that into stamina. I've also slotted sovereign right's +resist and expedient reinforcement's +resist auras into gang war, so with world of pain going, my thugs all have around +36% resists, which makes them fairly durable (except against some serious heavy-hitters, like Positron or Valkyrie).
I've got both dual wield and pistols, mostly because I hate share pain as a mastermind; I use challenge to drag stuff onto me to keep my pets alive, so I need to be able to heal myself.
It all depends, really. The personal attacks don't do that much damage, but they're handy for picking off runners, and for tossing in a bit more damage.
The Mastermind Project
Leveling every primary/secondary to 50!
50: Bot/FF, Bot/Dark, Ninja/Trap, Merc/Pain, Necro/Dark, Thug/Dark
Works in Progress: Thug/TA, Merc/Poison, Thug/Pain, Ninja/Pain, Thug/Storm
I am new to masterminds and wondering if I should take dual weild and empty clips. I am thugs/pain and I dont know if you are supposed to take them since I thought you mainly rely on minions.
all I know is money $ $