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And talen, I tried addressing you in good faith once; if you're not actually interested in a conversation, take your dumb trolling somewhere else.
[/ QUOTE ]No, you didn't. You said, in essence, 'I am not addressing X, but did I mention X X X X X X X X X X?'
I am pointing out that you simply saying that something is a design failure doesn't actually make it a design failure, especially since you don't seem to understand what, exactly a design failure is. This is one of the vices of terminology, when people who don't understand it use it, it puts a veneer of intellectualism on the same old tired nonsense.
To dismantle your posts point by point and indicate every place you are wrong would take a great deal of time and effort, time and effort you would disregard because you have stepped into this discussion with the prior assumption that you are right and that people who know better than you are 'dumb trolls.' So I make do by pointing out large and obvious ways in which you are wrong and find to my surprise and delight that you can't even answer those, instead choosing to throw out accusations.
You have proven everything I thought of you when I read your opening post.
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You wanted a definition of fun, so I provided one. I also asked why people thought ST buffing was fun, which you also didn't respond to. If you'd like to respond to anything in a substantive way at all, that'd be nice.
The design failure I'm talking about is the power incentivizing behavior no one likes. Even if you're one of the people that's comfortable ignoring players who spam chat with things you don't like, you can't really make the argument that needing to do that is a good thing.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
I have a few kins. (One level to 50 on one of them.) I rarely have people going "SB PLZ."
That said, I far prefer not having it as an AOE or PBAOE, no matter where you put it. Since as a single target buff (that doesn't take all that long to apply, even to a full team,) I can make sure to apply it where needed, skip the people who don't want it, and don't have to worry about someone who wanted/needed it not getting it - such as someone just coming out from an Awaken, or who has just nuked or crashed from a Tier9.
I like the flexibility of it as a ST buff, and would far prefer not having my "pseudo-travel power" (Siphon speed) end up affecting folks who would rather not have it as I pass by on the street.
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You'd have to ask the devs why they gave it two, I suppose.
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You're the one suggesting they do it, so therefore you seem the more logical one to ask in this matter. What's your reasoning?
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No, it already has two. Three, I guess, if you were to count SB, siphon speed, and IR. All I suggested doing was rearranging the effects the set already has a little bit WRT siphon speed/speed boost.
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Now you're just being silly. We've acknowledged that the only things separating Siphon Speed and Speed Boost from being travel powers are the other buffs that they provide (namely, Recharge for Speed Boost, and Recharge/Recovery in Speed Boost). Perhaps not in so many words, but I'm taking a moment here and now to state it clearly so that there is no room for further error in this matter. By removing these benefits from one of the powers, we're essentially leaving ourselves with just a Group Runspeed buff, which is redundant given the presence of Inertial Reduction in the set already providing travel benefits.
That, specifically, is the point of argument I am making. Your current suggestions would leave two powers in the set who's only benefit is the facilitation of travel, and nothing else. That's the height of redundancy. As it is now, Speed Boost and Siphon Speed provide other benefits that make them more attractive.
Do you have anything to address this redundancy at all, or are you just going to continue on your ridiculous circular claim that they're already pseudo-group-travel powers and thus the matter isn't worth discussing? If the latter, please do inform me so I can stop wasting my time with someone who isn't really interested in having an actual, thoughtful discussion on something they suggested.
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If you don't enjoying buffing players then why are you picking buffing powers?
[/ QUOTE ] Makes sense to me. I don't have speed boost on my fire/kin controller.
Well, I didn't think it was that worth discussing because like you say, the functionality is already in the set. I do think it's somewhat redundant and maybe that should change, I just didn't see it as that relevant to my point.
If you did make the change I suggested, the +speed portion would still have utility as a supplemental travel power (if you want teleport or fly, it could give you some horizontal movement.)
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
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Well, I didn't think it was that worth discussing because like you say, the functionality is already in the set. I do think it's somewhat redundant and maybe that should change, I just didn't see it as that relevant to my point.
If you did make the change I suggested, the +speed portion would still have utility as a supplemental travel power (if you want teleport or fly, it could give you some horizontal movement.)
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Ah. So you're still not even going to address the point that having two powers whose sole function is increasing travel speed and nothing else is redundant and silly, and instead ignore the fact that the powers you're seeking to change have other uses that reduces that redundancy.
Ah well. :/ And here I was hoping for something far more interesting.
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However, I'm fairly certain that the main reason that it doesn't currently work in an AoE is because then it would actually affect the caster (single target buffs don't for the simple fact you can't target yourself), and it may be felt that coupled with the rest of the +Damage and +Recharge buffs in Kinetics (and the End Recovery tools), that may be far too much for one set. And I can't say that I would exactly disagree with this sentiment.
It would be nice, but in consideration for greater game balance, it may just be a pipe dream.
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I'm not sure if this was brought up, but doesn't the fact that Grant Cover does not affect self say that it's possible to make this exclude yourself as an AoE?
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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However, I'm fairly certain that the main reason that it doesn't currently work in an AoE is because then it would actually affect the caster (single target buffs don't for the simple fact you can't target yourself), and it may be felt that coupled with the rest of the +Damage and +Recharge buffs in Kinetics (and the End Recovery tools), that may be far too much for one set. And I can't say that I would exactly disagree with this sentiment.
It would be nice, but in consideration for greater game balance, it may just be a pipe dream.
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I'm not sure if this was brought up, but doesn't the fact that Grant Cover does not affect self say that it's possible to make this exclude yourself as an AoE?
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Hm. That's a fairly good point, but I'm sure that would get a lot of people foaming at the mouth, as well. Still, that's not exactly a bad suggestion... and makes me wonder what other kinds of powers they could apply it to, should they feel it's necessary.
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Well, I didn't think it was that worth discussing because like you say, the functionality is already in the set. I do think it's somewhat redundant and maybe that should change, I just didn't see it as that relevant to my point.
If you did make the change I suggested, the +speed portion would still have utility as a supplemental travel power (if you want teleport or fly, it could give you some horizontal movement.)
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Ah. So you're still not even going to address the point that having two powers whose sole function is increasing travel speed and nothing else is redundant and silly, and instead ignore the fact that the powers you're seeking to change have other uses that reduces that redundancy.
Ah well. :/ And here I was hoping for something far more interesting.
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Man, I'm happy to discuss it. I don't see what the problem is. It's functionality that's in the set right now. It's not like I'm saying the good stuff in /kin should be replaced by a bunch of redundant ghettotravel powers.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
Personally, my solution to this problem is a +duration enhancement. Make it on the same track as def. So like 20% for so's.
Though if they truly did this, i would need to reslot my /ff and /sonic controllers.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
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If you don't enjoying buffing players then why are you picking buffing powers?
[/ QUOTE ] Makes sense to me. I don't have speed boost on my fire/kin controller.
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just watch for the icon to start blinking. That means you have 30 seconds remaining on the buff. That's when I reapply buffs. On all my characters that do that.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Personally, my solution to this problem is a +duration enhancement. Make it on the same track as def. So like 20% for so's.
Though if they truly did this, i would need to reslot my /ff and /sonic controllers.
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The problem with this is that it can generate significantly higher up time ratios than are actually intended with many powers. I'd only find it balanced if it were restricted to the "instant" recharge powers like shields, SB, ID, etc at which point it's exclusively done to decrease the percentage of time required for reapplication.
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just watch for the icon to start blinking. That means you have 30 seconds remaining on the buff. That's when I reapply buffs. On all my characters that do that.
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Not quite that easy on a level 50 team, with multiple melee characters. THe buff icons literally stretch across the screen.
Jay Doherty: Yes, there was this one night that I was ready to go home but had to drop the browns off at the super bowl before I left for home. While on the throne it hit me. I stayed for a few more hours and that why we have the pain pads in the game.
So what we need is a new icon filter that hides icons not from your set.
This would also allow two of the same type of buffers to not overlap as often if they didn't want to.
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just watch for the icon to start blinking. That means you have 30 seconds remaining on the buff. That's when I reapply buffs. On all my characters that do that.
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Not quite that easy on a level 50 team, with multiple melee characters. THe buff icons literally stretch across the screen.
[/ QUOTE ]"Hide Autopowers". I play on a 15-inch laptop and they don't even get halfway across the screen when I do that.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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The design failure I'm talking about is the power incentivizing behavior no one likes. Even if you're one of the people that's comfortable ignoring players who spam chat with things you don't like, you can't really make the argument that needing to do that is a good thing.
[/ QUOTE ]That's not a design failure, that is, even if it is a problem, an unintended consequence. And it's a byproduct of bad players, and teaming with bad players, or being a bad player. Fortunately, difficulty curves generally stop those problems from persisting.
Become a better player and you shouldn't wind up with the problem.
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If you don't enjoying buffing players then why are you picking buffing powers?
[/ QUOTE ] Makes sense to me. I don't have speed boost on my fire/kin controller.
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I'm actually considering respecing out of it. Now that I can't put it on my pets for the +rechg it's kind of pointless for me to have it.
If you are going to "fix" sb to make it easier to apply, could you do the same thing for density increase, clear mind, any kind of force fields, etc. (list every power in the game that needs to be applied to one teammate a time - sb is only one of them!).
I think a command that would cycle numerically through team mates (and not just ones in your vision range)(and only team mates - not pets, etc.) would go a long way to help in this sort of situation.
Generally, when I play a kin, I'm sb-ing every mob or two and density increasing every mob if I have the chance.
If you think a kin is bad, play an empath on an 8-man team and see how concentration intensive it is!
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If you are going to "fix" sb to make it easier to apply, could you do the same thing for density increase, clear mind, any kind of force fields, etc. (list every power in the game that needs to be applied to one teammate a time - sb is only one of them!).
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FF is 4 min while SB is only 2 mins and one of his suggestions was to make it 4 min just like FF
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3) Increase speed boost's duration. Speed boost's duration is short because it's a powerful buff, but I don't see any real reason it couldn't be longer. It's trivially easy to keep SB "perma" on a team anyway; the only issue is how much time the /kin has to spend doing it, and I don't see why we couldn't shorten that time.
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I don't like the AoE ones but I do like this one just make it 4 min would be fine with me
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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If you are going to "fix" sb to make it easier to apply, could you do the same thing for density increase, clear mind, any kind of force fields, etc. (list every power in the game that needs to be applied to one teammate a time - sb is only one of them!).
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FF is 4 min while SB is only 2 mins and one of his suggestions was to make it 4 min just like FF
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3) Increase speed boost's duration. Speed boost's duration is short because it's a powerful buff, but I don't see any real reason it couldn't be longer. It's trivially easy to keep SB "perma" on a team anyway; the only issue is how much time the /kin has to spend doing it, and I don't see why we couldn't shorten that time.
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I don't like the AoE ones but I do like this one just make it 4 min would be fine with me
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That would be great. Problem is there has to be a trade off. Make it last twice as long = it will be half as effective.
The devs have explained this before. Powers are balanced based on end cost, duration, recharge, level of buff/debuff. In order to increase one, you have to decrease one of the others proportionally.
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At some point it's a design failure, though. I mean, when I play a /kin I ignore those people too, but it's not like that's a good situation. I'm irritated, I'm sure they're irritated, and the team is less effective than it could be, cause SB is a really effective buff.
Which is why I think SB should be changed something other than a single target ability.
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Not all of us agree with you, unfortunately.
They can do whatever you want 'em to with SB, the instant we get right-click-off.
If it was possible, adjusting SB like they did to the MM upgrade powers could be interesting. Basically, increase SB's endurance cost and whenever you cast it on one teammate it is applied to every other teammate within a certain range.
But for that to happen I think the +Run Speed buff might have to be cut down, a lot. As far as I know most people only refuse SB because they don't like the SS. If it was only around a swift level of boost I don't think anyone would complain. Might have to call it something different then to, heh, like Energy Boost. Yeah, Energy Boost.
I don't know if that would be worth the tradeoff. But they already have another grantable +movement power in Inertial Reduction, so losing the SS in SB sounds reasonable. Just don't tell the Granite dudes..>_>
/shrug
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If you are going to "fix" sb to make it easier to apply, could you do the same thing for density increase, clear mind, any kind of force fields, etc. (list every power in the game that needs to be applied to one teammate a time - sb is only one of them!).
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FF is 4 min while SB is only 2 mins and one of his suggestions was to make it 4 min just like FF
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3) Increase speed boost's duration. Speed boost's duration is short because it's a powerful buff, but I don't see any real reason it couldn't be longer. It's trivially easy to keep SB "perma" on a team anyway; the only issue is how much time the /kin has to spend doing it, and I don't see why we couldn't shorten that time.
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I don't like the AoE ones but I do like this one just make it 4 min would be fine with me
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That would be great. Problem is there has to be a trade off. Make it last twice as long = it will be half as effective.
The devs have explained this before. Powers are balanced based on end cost, duration, recharge, level of buff/debuff. In order to increase one, you have to decrease one of the others proportionally.
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They doubled the duration once before without halving it's effectiveness, so I don't see what that would be a requirement.
I mean, we're talking about a spammable buff, not one with an appreciable cooldown, so all it would do is slightly reduce the amount of time spent buffing. I don't see how that would upset balance.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
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You'd have to ask the devs why they gave it two, I suppose.
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You're the one suggesting they do it, so therefore you seem the more logical one to ask in this matter. What's your reasoning?
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No, it already has two. Three, I guess, if you were to count SB, siphon speed, and IR. All I suggested doing was rearranging the effects the set already has a little bit WRT siphon speed/speed boost.
@Dysc, on virtue:
Virtue blues: Overnight (DP/MM), Kid Ridiculous (FC/rad), Panorama (Ill/time)
Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)