Dom Changes Testing


DarkCurrent

 

Posted

So dom changes will be on test soon. What kind of tests should be done to show whether or not the changes have improved the AT?

Farms?
PvP?
MA?
PToD?
Solo?
Team?
SF?

Just curious what will provide the best data that people on this forum will want to see before I commit myself (pun?) to doing any.

Oh, and all the 'my doms can't solo 2 mins and 1 lieutenant' people better be there, too. Just make sure you run some Live tests first to establish a baseline performance.


Please buff Ice Control.

 

Posted

Well, historically speaking, one of the trouble areas for Dominators is the 10-22 run. I'm thinking one good test would be to try a Dominator from 10 through as far as you can get towards 22, but staying away from the obvious crutches like really large teams or PL-like lackeying. It would be worthwhile seeing if there is both a qualitative and quantative difference from as it is currently.

I would also recommend a few arcs in the 40s. With the preponderance of mezzing foes, heavily damage resistant foes and AVs it's a good region to assess performance.

Personally speaking, one of my measures of a successful character is the ability to solo Silver Mantis as an EB in the "Expel Arachnos from the Circle base" mission from Crash Cage, usually at 22, 23 or 24. I can do it with most of my non-Psi Doms at Villainous difficulty, but I normally run a bit higher than that during my 20s, so I'd like to be able to do it at +1. As far as I remember I've only been able to do that with one of my Doms.


 

Posted

Play a dom and see if its fun?


Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

Posted

I personally plan to throw myself headlong under the proverbial bus.

Loading up Marshal Brass' arc on my Ice/Elec and seeing how bad it goes. She's my lowest-level Dominator, one of the only sets I'm unsure about the synergy/viability of, and that's one of the more annoying arcs for me just because of the presence of Shivans and Professor Echo. Also has a good mix of other annoying enemy types for me (Goldbrickers, Arachnos, Wyvern...).

If that passes with acceptable performance, then I should be fine with any other changes. Though any specific set changes, I'll bust out someone else.


 

Posted

It would be interesting to for people to test how Dom's do now in comparison to Fire/Rad and Fire/Kin controllers, in later game performance and solobility.

Since one of the goals is to decrease the perceived gap in Dom vs. Controller performance. I'm not yet seeing where these changes will do that.


My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi

 

Posted

Good thing too, since fire/rad and fire/kin are the only controllers out there. And they're both so overpowered when you extract them from farming situations.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and all the 'my doms can't solo 2 mins and 1 lieutenant' people better be there, too. Just make sure you run some Live tests first to establish a baseline performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is essencial. If they are mucking about with my favorite AT to drawn in more folk, then the folks they are trying to please must have a more "pleasant experience" playing it or all this drama will be for naught.


[ QUOTE ]
Well, historically speaking, one of the trouble areas for Dominators is the 10-22 run. I'm thinking one good test would be to try a Dominator from 10 through as far as you can get towards 22, but staying away from the obvious crutches like really large teams or PL-like lackeying. It would be worthwhile seeing if there is both a qualitative and quantative difference from as it is currently.

I would also recommend a few arcs in the 40s. With the preponderance of mezzing foes, heavily damage resistant foes and AVs it's a good region to assess performance.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are excellent suggestions, as is ususal from MInmin. I would also like to see how the Perma's do after this how effictive are they after the changes? Although I'm assuming that the farmers will be there to test this waaaay before I get out of outbreak.

I truely believe that the folks who couldn't stand the AT before and had trouble getting through the first levels will encounter the same troubles and still not play the AT. The idea of active defense is hard to explain. Also farming will go back to Brutes leaving Doms with a smaller population than before.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting to for people to test how Dom's do now in comparison to Fire/Rad and Fire/Kin controllers, in later game performance and solobility.

Since one of the goals is to decrease the perceived gap in Dom vs. Controller performance. I'm not yet seeing where these changes will do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot more than just fire/rads and fire/kins, but you are right it would be important to compare a "damage dom" vs a "damage troller".

That said, I believe such comparisons are pointless considering doms and trollers have about as much in common as tankers and stalkers. Comparing doms to blasters makes a lot more sense to me.

I sort of wish Castle would revise his list because dom vs troller viability is a pipedream unless doms start getting force multiplying sets in i15...


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It would be interesting to for people to test how Dom's do now in comparison to Fire/Rad and Fire/Kin controllers, in later game performance and solobility.

Since one of the goals is to decrease the perceived gap in Dom vs. Controller performance. I'm not yet seeing where these changes will do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are a lot more than just fire/rads and fire/kins, but you are right it would be important to compare a "damage dom" vs a "damage troller".

That said, I believe such comparisons are pointless considering doms and trollers have about as much in common as tankers and stalkers. Comparing doms to blasters makes a lot more sense to me.

I sort of wish Castle would revise his list because dom vs troller viability is a pipedream unless doms start getting force multiplying sets in i15...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, compare all three. Why not? It just means more time actually testing.

I also think it'd be important to test at a variety of level-brackets, as well, instead of just the level cap. Particularly at major cut-off ponts (15, 30, 50; This is just my opinion) to determine about where the curve sits and how big of a curve it is. Or if it's a ramp, instead of a curve.

Then again, I have this hugely massive complex in regards to testing things in an empirical fashion.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Good thing too, since fire/rad and fire/kin are the only controllers out there. And they're both so overpowered when you extract them from farming situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, you just said that. Fire/rads are probably the SECOND strongest hero build across all scenarios. And fire/kins are a top 10 build.

you can't make up stuff like what you said . I don't want to jump the gun, but I really hope you aren't on Castle's select panel of dom reviewers and I also hope you can come up with better feedback when the changes do hit.


 

Posted

Damage before and after for my perma plant/psi and my non-perma mind/em.


Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
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speak american godamnit

 

Posted

I think testing in the teens will be the biggest test to see if the whole thing will be a failure or not. Thats usually point where my doms get stuck. The few I do have above 20 got their due to double xp weekends or thru lvling with sgmates. Solo there was just no way I could do it.


Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator

Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I think testing in the teens will be the biggest test to see if the whole thing will be a failure or not. Thats usually point where my doms get stuck. The few I do have above 20 got their due to double xp weekends or thru lvling with sgmates. Solo there was just no way I could do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually why my primary stress test is going to be at 18, in an arc I know is going to give me fits to actually run through (having done it on a Thug/Poison and a Bot/Storm before and being thoroughly irritated).


 

Posted

Depending on the official changes, I have 3 high level /psi I'm going to test. Two are 50 (fire/psi and ice/psi) and the 3rd is 46 (mind/psi). I'd like to get that last one to 50 as well to standardize (anyone on Protector want to PL meh??? )

My plan for these tests are simple. I'll run identical missions for all 3 on Live and then on Test. I'll record the stats using Herostats Unstable, then post the raw numbers here. I won't alter the builds for either server, nor upgrade the characters during the tests (another reason to have all at 50).

Solo tests will be easy to control, but I'll see if I can get at least a duo set up as well.

I'm hoping others of you with /psi builds can step up as well. Would be cool to have an earth/ , plant/ and grav/ psi for comparison to see all combos. I'd also like to see some numbers for lower level /psi doms (teens, 20s and 30s). Any volunteers?

Thanks,

DC


Please buff Ice Control.

 

Posted

I ran my first dom comparison. A summary of the results can be found here in the I15 Test thread.

However, I'd like to keep any dom community discussion here if you don't mind.

These preliminary results have some interesting points, namely the side effects of the increased dmg, rch and endurance of the assault sets. Refer to my observations on filler controls, decreased melee attacks, and equality in AoE control usage.


Please buff Ice Control.

 

Posted

Just a fly-by commentary, if people are looking for places to stress-test dominators? The Fall Of The 5th Column can give both your survivability and your ST DPS a workout. Mender Lazarus offers it, it's level range 30-40, and it features Nosferatu (difficult to fight in many cases), Burkholder (KB heavy and a bit of a useless tard), and a room of about a hundred nazis in waves of ambushes.