Does /kin Need a Buff?
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I really don't think it's that hard to do SB every two minutes. You can set up a cycling bind that will let you hit one button over and over to SB your whole team. If you can't tap one key sixteen times (I tend to separate my targeting and casting binds) every two minutes, you should not be playing a buff set.
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The point is that while you are hitting that key 16 times, there's other stuff you are not doing. If I were a kin defender, it would be no sweat. But I posted this in the troller forums. I'm an ice troller. I can shut down gobs of mobs....if I am not hitting speedboost all the time
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If you're more useful shutting down gobs of mobs instead of speed boosting the team, then shut down gobs of mobs instead of speed boosting the team. Controllers have two support powersets, and it's up to you and not your teammates how to best use your powers.
And keep in mind one important difference between ally shield powers and speed boost. Cold, FF, Thermal, and Sonic shields are each two powers that recharge almost instantly and last for 4 minutes. Kin has 1 ally targetted buff that lasts for half as long. So if you're keeping the team speed boosted you're not actually spending propotionally more time buffing the team (disregarding any differences an activation time).
But really, people asking for SB in general should be told to [censored]. I'm assuming you can play your build and make your own decisions. Do it.
Since I'm a SB spammer the only answer with my kins is: Beggars don't get SB. This mostly works.
It's true, if you roll a Kin you have to live with the fact other players will see you as a SB-generating-machine.
Use the bind (what I never tried yet), or move the team window next to your power tray (that's what I do), put Transfusion on auto and use your target for the heal and SBing. So you're almost the perfect heal and SB bot for your team and it's pretty easy playing. IMO, of course.
On my Trollers I only buff SB if it's between pulls and I don't have anything more pressing concerning me, like locking down mobs, staying alive or whotnot. On my fenders I SB constantly and feel personal failure if anyone has to ask for it. My corruptors can go either way. Depends on how short the team is on damage. If the answer is "a lot" then I'll be doing more blasting than individual buffing.
Ahhh, the kin controller's burden! You've got to love clicking constantly to play a kin controller. Besides all the SB'ing, FS'ing, transference, targeted healing, buffing, ect. there's the mezzing, holds, etc. But when played correctly, you will earn the praise of your teammates (if they're not [censored]).
I've had more global friend invites while on my fire/kin than all my other toons combined (and that's a lot of toons).
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@TFury
@T.Fury
The point isn't that SBing the team is hard, the point is it's not fun.
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Virtue reds: Block Party (SS/SD), Goldcrush (earth/fire), Deadwire (claws/elec), Snowcrush (ice/kin)
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The point isn't that SBing the team is hard, the point is it's not fun.
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Exactly. I like shield buffs. I like the aoe buffs. I like long recharge buffs. These are all low maintenance and make me feel like I'm doing something useful for the team beyond the obvious. Everyone appreciates them. They're easy to deal with. Last for a decent amount of time and don't interupt your fun too much. SB doesn't last a decent amount of time. SB does interrupt your fun too much. SB is the only buff in the game that I don't like.
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The point isn't that SBing the team is hard, the point is it's not fun.
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Precisely. But there will always be a subset of the playerbase who mistake "tedium" for "challenge" because they've never been properly challenged. I once read a lovely quote on point, something about how counting grains of sand is "challenging" too, but it certainly isn't fun.
Just nerf the darn thing and make it an AoE already. Aren't we all sick to death of hearing about SB?
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On my Trollers I only buff SB if it's between pulls and I don't have anything more pressing concerning me, like locking down mobs, staying alive or whotnot. On my fenders I SB constantly and feel personal failure if anyone has to ask for it. My corruptors can go either way. Depends on how short the team is on damage. If the answer is "a lot" then I'll be doing more blasting than individual buffing.
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That's the thing, SB has aspects to its buff people seem to forget. Like keeping it on the whole team, increasing its damage by their powers recharging faster.
So many threads on this!
When I play one of my 4 kins, yes I love them that much, I play them to turn my team into a speeding steamroller of DOOM! I can still blast, heal, buff and debuff damage, and keep everyone boosted. Cause when I play a kin that is what i'm there to do.
PS...the only people I don't SB are other kins who never SB me(or teammates). I usually don't get 'sb plz' cause i'm playing my kin correctly.
Some people don't mind tapping the key. Some of us enjoy it as much as we enjoy tapping other keys to make other powers go off. Seriously, what the heck is it with these forums lately and declaring one type of fun less valid than another? If you don't have fun playing a power set...
DON'T PLAY THE POWERSET.
Do not come to the troller forums and scream for dumbing down of controllers - who are supposed to be an AT for OCD people who like paying attention to all the little details. If you can't handle hitting buffs (or just don't have fun doing it) don't play a buffer. Don't take Speed Boost. Whatever. Just don't scream for a nerf to a power that lots of people enjoy using just as much as they like tapping another key for attacks.
Just to chime in late, I don't at all think /kin needs a buff. I grant that buffing cycles are laborious on teams of 8. OTOH, I do them routinely through TFs, with my controllers, without any special binds or even hitting the sequential teammate select buttons. I manage.
/kin 'trollers are a tradeoff of sorts, and a well-balanced one. It's understandable if you don't want to spend your time SBing. It's less understandable if you have a power but don't use it, but it's all a series of choices you face.
Personally, I've always thought an Ice/Kin would be a good combo just because AA's a toggle and Ice Slick's a fight opener, leaving you plenty of time to buff at your leisure. I've not played one past 5 or 6, though.
Choosing a Controller V2 | Splattrollers | Plant/Rad | Fire/Storm | Mind/Emp & Mind/Rad
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If anything I think /kin needs a nerf. Though I think the set is fine now. It is kinda sad to see people on broadcast channel look for a kin. Not that they're looking for a defender or a controller, no, they're specifically looking for a kin. For one simple reason: SB.
SB is a powerful buff. Especially on teams with granite tankers. However I think it is overrated. Yes, recharge is good. At higher levels I've got more than enough attacks to fill my attack chain, even without a recharge boost. Extra speed is situationally good, though most often I hate it, it makes maneuvering in caves very hard. Honestly I'd rather prefer having some good shielding.
However I do expect to see SB being used by someone playing a kin/ or /kin. Just like I expect to see shields being used by sonic or force fielders. Or Fortitude being used by Empathy. You get my point? It is a buff and you should be using it on your team. However I do ignore people that directly asks for it.
I think people should go by some simple rules when it comes to buffs:
Yes, I will buff when necessary/possible. A team with buffs are a stronger team than one without. 7 people getting better will in 99% of the cases be more beneficial than you firing off a power.
Or you could do as I do in most cases. Buff player 1 - fire off power on enemy - buff player 2 - fire off power on enemy - buff player 3, etc, etc. Speedboost has a small cooldown and in that time you'll be able to use one of your other powers. In some cases you'll be using Increase Density, but in most cases Increase Density is just too little benefit compared to the casting time (unlike Speedboost in my opinion).
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The point is that while you are hitting that key 16 times, there's other stuff you are not doing. If I were a kin defender, it would be no sweat. But I posted this in the troller forums. I'm an ice troller. I can shut down gobs of mobs....if I am not hitting speedboost all the time
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Very true. And even as a Kin/ Defender, sometimes SB is far from being your top priority. If there are a decent number of enemies left standing, Fulcrum Shift is usually the single most effective thing you can do to win the fight for your team. Sometimes you really need to come to the rescue of a teammate with Transfusion or Transference...and if that happens as someone's SB is running out, too bad. And if you've gotten a full-effect FS off, your own damage-capped Nova is as effective (and then some) as that of the Blaster who's been hanging back out of FS range.
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
I will have to come back to this thread later bud some advice for the OP and anyone who plays a kin...tell them you will try to SB as much as you can but you have othe responsibilities you owe to the team to keep them alive. My AR/Kin has some redraw issues so I tell them chill out and wait...yes you might get kicked but you will ALWAYS find another team within seconds.
Simple solution - - don't take SB. Most of my /kins don't have SB. It's one power and not a MUST HAVE in my book for /kin trollers.
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Why do I have to press the Howl and Scream buttons over and over? They're on this frequent, every-few-seconds recharge, as if the game wouldn't know I want to shoot my opponents as frequently as possible. Why can't I just hit the "shoot stuff" button? It seems like this combat is written more for a computer than a human being.
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I agree with this. The game is basically pressing a few buttons over and over, whether it's pressing the hold power on mobs, or pressing SB on teammates. It basically boils down to what kind of button you don't mind pressing over and over.
If you're not in the mood to press the SB button, just play something else that presses another button, until you're in the mood to press the SB button again.
That said, I can understand feeling frustrated when you feel you have other things to do to contribute to the team, but your teammates are spamming you for SB. Perhaps you could send them a firm reminder that you try to keep SB up, but it wears off quickly so please be patient and wait a bit for reapplication?
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Does kin need buf? "NO".
/Kin doesn't need a buff and although SB is a good power; the combination of each teammates' individual builds plus:
SP + Fulcrum Shift (and possibly Assault) for huge damage buffs and a light to moderate resistance buff (damage debuff)
A small team heal that doubles as a spammable sapping tool
and a nice team endurance replenisher that also acts as a sapping tool is an offering that's hard to match by the average set...
when combined with a Controllers ability to lock things down and otherwise cause major hinderences to a mobs ability to attack in the first place; SB shouldn't really be a power to be getting bent out of shape over.
There will be exceptions, but for the most part... a person should be building their toon to the point where a little extra +recovery or +recharge shouldn't be a make it or break it point for their gaming experience (ie. it's nice when they get it... but they really shouldn't need it).
SB, from a Controller, should just be considered icing on a nicely stacked cake.
(IMO, If you're part of a large team whose combined individual build components; self and team buffs are so ineffective that it's survival or functionality hinges on a single power from a single player, chances are that either that team sucks or that power is overpowered and needs to be nerfed.)
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SB needs a huge nerf. If it weren't so awesome sauce then people wouldn't whine about having it all the time. It's the Clarity of CoH.
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Some people don't mind tapping the key. Some of us enjoy it as much as we enjoy tapping other keys to make other powers go off. Seriously, what the heck is it with these forums lately and declaring one type of fun less valid than another? If you don't have fun playing a power set... DON'T PLAY THE POWERSET. Do not come to the troller forums and scream for dumbing down of controllers . . .
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Who's doing that? All I see is people recommending balance, for fun for everyone, not just fun for OCD people - fun for the buffers, not just the buffees. I don't see any screaming either. The quoted post feels like the equivalent of saying "I like draconian laws, so if you don't like the draconian laws in my country, then GIT OUT!"
Like make Siphon Speed an AoE recharge buff, and then leave Speed Boost as a pure movement buff?