Going Rogue and Epic ATs
By
BrandX,
Posted on: 2009-05-19 20:52 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I think it's a little to early to stEt speculating, and yes the better forum for this would be player questions.
But since this is the Internet and news is always disected regardless of actual details, then I figure it's probably going to happen the way you stated it.
I'm suspecting (and I think I'm reading this in your OP) that the ATs are still going to have their "original side" flags, and unlock the appropriate EAT.
(For instance, a Stalker going heroside at 10 and running to 50 would still unlock an SOA, not a Kheld.)
Purely speculation, though. They may decide to remove that all together.
Actually, it would make a lot of sense if taking a hero or villain and switching sides with it, and then getting it to 50 would unlock a third, neutral Epic AT.
Just speculation, of course... 
How we'll unlock the epics is really a small issue when compared to what will happen to the Epic mission contacts.
Will we get a whole new set of contacts for the other side for our AT's? It would make sense, especially for a side switching VEAT. That would be something...
I also think we'll be getting a new Neutral epic, probably from a TF or something though as opposed to getting a lvl 50. Unless getting a lvl 50 neutral character is possible.
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How we'll unlock the epics is really a small issue when compared to what will happen to the Epic mission contacts.
Will we get a whole new set of contacts for the other side for our AT's? It would make sense, especially for a side switching VEAT. That would be something...
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Personally, I think this is the best idea. Add some arcs you can do for some of the known heroes on the hero side. Then, once you do an arc for one of them on either side, you unlock your Epic Pools -- no change needed for anyone who's already 41 (unless they just want to run them for the XP) but any new player will need to run them. Then, you have access to whatever Pools are available to your AT, whether hero or villain side. It won't be tied as tightly to Patrons like they are on the villain side, but the devs have been moving away from that with opening up all the Patron Pools instead of just allowing one of them.
Or, create a set of Epic-type Pools for the villain side, and Patrons for the hero side, and then if you switch sides you will have to respec out of the Patrons and into an Epic. That would actually add more choices, but give those who stay on their "side" a little extra bonus. But it would obviously mean adding a while lot of new Power Sets. (Even if only with 4-5 powers)
No epic powers should stay unique to the side you came from. You start as hero you get Hero epics and vice versa. Thats how it should be.
I was talking about Epic Archtypes and the epic archtype mission arcs. Did you read my post?
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I was talking about Epic Archtypes and the epic archtype mission arcs. Did you read my post?
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Actually, I completely misunderstood your post. I thought you were talking about Patron arcs.
I am guessing that if a Kheldian or SoA side switches, they will lose access to those contacts and arcs. There's no telling for sure, but it seems like the simplest solution. Actually, if you stay Neutral you will probably be able to retain access to your Epic arcs while still being able to go over to the "other side". It will only be if you go full Villain as Kheldian or Hero as SoA that you will lose those arcs.
But you will still be able to level on the same content all other ATs get. It's not like you will be unable to level a Kheldian on the Villain side. If side switching is even allowed for the Epic ATs, which it may not be.
IMO I dont think Side Switching is the most accurate terminology. It could be more like Dual Alignment, where you have a primary alignment (hero or villain from the real universe) that can not be changed. And a secondary alignment (valid only in the alternate universe) which can be switched and switched back again.
Think about, if you are a hero and you follow Statesman. Just because Statesman goes rogue doesnt mean I want my character to become Villain. Therefore the devs are giving us the option to choose our sides in the expansion / alternate universe otherwise there would be no reason for me to purchase the expansion if my hero couldnt remain a hero.
Other items to think about:
Contacts: This would be difficult for a real world side switch
SG/VG: May not function in the alternate universe, you may still earn prestige
WW/BM: May not be available in the alternate universe to keep things separated like they are today. Although Im guessing trades will still function in the alternate universe allowing 2 characters to switch items from hero-villain.
Neutral Alignment: Could be a 3rd option, how and when do you choose your alignment and what if I decide not to choose. You may not get contacts until you choose thou.
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IMO I dont think Side Switching is the most accurate terminology. It could be more like Dual Alignment, where you have a primary alignment (hero or villain from the real universe) that can not be changed. And a secondary alignment (valid only in the alternate universe) which can be switched and switched back again.
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Well, I suppose it's still possible that Heroes could only have access to Paragon City and Preatorian Earth, and Villains could only have access to the Rogue Isles and Preatorian Earth. But honestly, I think even though this is from promotional material and perhaps a bit soon to say for sure, this quote is clear enough:
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For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles and Villains to experience Paragon City.
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It really sounds like we will have Hero ATs in the Rogue Isles and Villain ATs in Paragon City. And not just in the sense of Mayhem missions where you have an instanced zone which is a copy of Paragon City.
We are assuming that if you make the side switch over to Paragon City that you will no longer be welcome in the Rogue Isles. But that may not be the case. It could be that being of your "true" alignment (good for heroes and evil for villains) limits you to your "home" zones, while achieving the Neutral alignment (or starting as it) will give you access to Preatorian Earth. Then only those who "side switch" have access to all three.
That would solve the question of the Patron contacts, but would bring up the question of how you can betray Lord Recluse and not end up dead the moment you step foot in Spider City. Personally, I think it's the Neutral alignments that will be welcome in all three areas, and the Villains turned good and Heroes turned evil will be unable to return "home". Possibly sacrificing some options, but maybe gaining new ones.
Too bad the Devs pretty much will give us a new zone to play in instead of actual side switching......much easier coding wise.
Captain Freak don't take offense but you're wrong. Theres no way they'd do that, that would mean they outright lied to us about what they're doing. It wouldn't make sense.
Here's how I envision it.
Preatoria will indeed be a whole new city like the Rogue Isles and Paragon. Not sure if it'll be a starting area but if it is, yay.
On each side, villain and hero there will be a new bunch of contacts as well as changing the existing ones to give us side swapping missions to alter our "Morality slider". Then another
set of contacts that would let you know where you stand, and give you missions designed to get you into the other city and swap sides properly.
Yes i'm suggesting side switching may actually take mroe then jsut a flip of a switch.
I'm guessing Preatoria will have a lot more of these missions and will be a new zone accessible fairly early on from both sides. If not a potential starting zone for neutral characters. It will of course be the primary zone of side switching because it'll be an entire city for both sides to find their feet.
You really think they'd make a new zone and then label it as an expansion? You're way off CF.
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Too bad the Devs pretty much will give us a new zone to play in instead of actual side switching......much easier coding wise.
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No offense but it sounds like you didn't read the press release. It clearly states that heroes will get to experience Rogue Isles when they cross over to villains and vice versa. Source..
"City of Heroes Going Rogue will introduce a new alignment system that helps players explore the shades of gray that lie between good and evil. For the first time, hero characters can become villains and vice versa, enabling hero archetypes to cross over to the Rogue Isles and villain archetypes to experience Paragon City. Clearly marked missions, in addition to behaviors and decisions made by the player, will move a hero's or villain's moral compass, which could eventually change the hero's or villain's alignment."
Link.. http://us.ncsoft.com/en/news/press-r...ing-rogue.html
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You really think they'd make a new zone and then label it as an expansion? You're way off CF.
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Well, they might if it was a large number of new zones, and a couple of new Archetypes. However, they have already explicitly stated that Heroes will be able to cross over to the Rogue Isles and Villains will be able to get into Paragon City.
And I agree, it won't be as easy as flipping a switch. It will take time to move your "reputation" over to the other side.
i1-i-14 has been an expansion as far as the devs are concerned
Did you guys miss the part where the Devs have resisted merging the markets?
Do you people realize you still cant trade inspirations?
Anything that kept the Heros and anti-heros (hardly villians in any sense of the word, gotta keep that G rating) seperate has been brutally and ruthlessly enforced.
We have 2 zones that let Red n Blue co-operate in a combat fashion and 1 zone of non-combat plus x-mas stuff. Wow.
I read the post......in pretoria......sounds exactly like a zone to me. Itll be neat, itll be fun......ultimately its gonna be another seperation like RWZ. Hopefully itll have a fun Tf or two like Cim, maybe even a low lvl one!!!
I was wrong once before when Statesman left to make a crappier even more nerfed version of Coh when I thought this game was going into maintenance mode and no more expansions but I was glad to be wrong then and I will more than happy to be wrong now.
I would love a hero mm....not a lvl 49 villian mm and then at lvl 50 i can magically hang out on the heroside.....ooo ahhhh. I mean lvl 1 create a freakin MM blueside. Sadly i have more cash villian side than hero........but I can roam TV and beat up freaks or Perez and take down hellions.
Look dude you're wrong ok.
Issues 1-14 were expansions yes. But Rogue is a paid expansion, it's totally different. The last time they did this we got a whole new game in it's own right.
Market Merging and inspiration trading have little to do with any of this. The Devs have said we'll be getting side switching. Yes there will be restrictions on it but thy wouldn't say that and then just throw us another co-op zone. It would be a PR nightmare.
being on-topic,
the arctypes will be unlocked by the original sides as the players may easily switch sides of a level 50, to another side and get both epics with only 1 lvl 50 toon
or to make things easier siwthced toons may not get epics at all :I
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being on-topic,
the arctypes will be unlocked by the original sides as the players may easily switch sides of a level 50, to another side and get both epics with only 1 lvl 50 toon
or to make things easier siwthced toons may not get epics at all :I
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I would think they could link it to AT...
Scrappers/Tankers/Blasters/Defenders/Trollers hit 50, you unlock Kheldians
Brutes/Dominators/Stalkers/Masterminds/Corrupters hit 50, you unlock SoAs.
I don't see why they would change that. I wouldn't make it as easy as sideswitching your lvl 50 hero to redside to unlock the SoAs. I hope the devs don't allow that. 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
It might be easiest to keep the flags the way they are, having a 50 hero/villain unlock Khelds/SoA regardless of what side they're on when they hit 50.
As for patrons... y'know, I love it if Going Rogue gaves villains ancillaries and heroes Patrons.
Aww, here I was hoping this would be a speculation thread about possible new Epic ATs in Going Rogue...
Something I've been curious about, how do you all think City of Heroes: Going Rogue will affect the unlocking of Epic Archetypes? I think unlocking Kheldians will involve a level 50 Blaster, Scrapper, Tanker, Controller or Defender. Conversely, the Soldiers of Arachnos will be unlocked by getting a Stalker, Brute, Corruptor, Dominator or Mastermind to 50. However, it makes little sense that a Villain gone Hero (then hitting 50) would unlock an Arachnos Soldier...
So, thoughts?
(I apologize if this is in the wrong forum. I couldn't decide between here and player questions)