[ QUOTE ]
~ Make Cobra Strike useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with this. cobra strike is useful. I can stun any lt that comes my way and when stacked with EC it'll put a boss out long enough for me to beat down something else that is bothering me.
I made a MA/WP last fall? i forget when, probably one of my fastest to 50. It's fun to play. It isn't an "easy mode" scrapper like kat/regen. You have to tweak your playstyle a little bit but the thinking is what makes it a fun character to play. It's also very unique, i hate it when i get on a team with another MA/* cause i have to share my awesome.
i remember back 2-3 months there was a ton of MA/* threads and for a week or so several MA/WP threads. It's not dead. they are certainly less rare than they were before the recent buffs. the jack of all trades is a bit of a draw back but it's still a lot of fun to play.
Roxy On DA...Finally!
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I have a problem with this. cobra strike is useful. I can stun any lt that comes my way and when stacked with EC it'll put a boss out long enough for me to beat down something else that is bothering me.
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The perspective that it's not useful originates in the fact that MA is one of the only melee powersets with a stun that basically does nothing else. See: Energy Melee.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
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I have a problem with this. cobra strike is useful. I can stun any lt that comes my way and when stacked with EC it'll put a boss out long enough for me to beat down something else that is bothering me.
[/ QUOTE ]
The perspective that it's not useful originates in the fact that MA is one of the only melee powersets with a stun that basically does nothing else. See: Energy Melee.
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Isn't Energy Melee's stun slower animating though ?
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
"MA Sucks" threads crop up about once a week on this forum, heh. To sum up:
1. MA could really use a cone, preferably by replacing Crippling Axe Kick - even with the recent animation changes, most folks (and I use most folks loosely) don't think the animation meshes well with the rest of MA. While CAK's -Fly and immob are nice, Air Superiority does the same job better and is a highly-recommended Pool Power for MA, which has no redraw.
2. All Scrapper Primaries have a specific secondary effect - Katana has -def, fire has +DoT, and DM has -tohit. Well, MA's secondary effect is +Awesome. Those stuns and knockbacks and knockdowns are just gravy. To quote an AR blaster when taunted that Full Auto was subpar: "I'm sorry...BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA....I can't hear you...BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA...over the sound...BUDDA BUDDA BUDDA....of how awesome I am!"
3. As Werner points out, being the worst scrapper primary is like being the weakest nuclear bomb. It's still pretty darn hardcore.
The MA set has always been my favorite scrapper primary for some reason, even before they buffed it. I guess it's because the theme for it is the most "natural" out of all the scrapper primaries- no weapons, no fire or nether effects, etc. So far I have 4 MA toons all taken to 50- 2 MA/SR scraps, an MA/WP scrap, and an MA/Nin stalker. I was tempted to make an MA/SD scrap, but I forced myself to try another set I haven't done yet and made BS/SD instead. I seem to enjoy going back to play any of my MA toons the most, so if you're wondering if there's anyone still playing MA, you know there's atleast one person out there who is! 
Mission Architect arc: The Hive Connection, Arc ID: 96660
Triumph: (@UltraBatz)
UltraBatz, lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper (1355 badges)
UberBatz, lvl 50 Peacebringer (769 badges)
SG: The Steel Paladins, Fusion Force
Far from dead run a lot with couple MAs even 3 and it funny to see 3 Dragon's Tail going off. Even better watching 3 Eagles Claw going simultaneously
My problem with the set is the lack of anything really special mechanics-wise and the boring animations. It performs fine, but the set puts me to sleep.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Isn't Energy Melee's stun slower animating though ?
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Yes, but it has two of them at very high damage scales, and every attack it has offers a chance to stun.
In other words, a straight port of EM to Scrappers (not something I consider likely) would have huge burst damage, extremely high single-target DPS, and free stuns on the side.
That's part of the perspective that leads to the observation that MA's stun-only power isn't worth having.
It's not a perspective without flaws. Tanker powersets, in general, are better at delivering mezzes or soft control than Scrappers are.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
~ Make Cobra Strike useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with this. cobra strike is useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough.
Instead, I'll say this:
~ Make Cobra Strike on par with other mitigation powers like Touch of Fear, Siphon Life, and Parry/Divine Avalanche.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
I have a MA/Shield scrapper on Victory. That scrapper is maturing nicely at 41, and probably will overtake my Shield/Mace tanker who's currently at 43.
Shields does a pretty good job shoring up MA's AoE weakness, and the combination both looks nice and performs adequately.
I now use that character preferentially over the Dark Melee/Super Reflex scrapper I rolled specifically for Mission Architect stuff. I made that scrapper to be a survival oriented scrapper, but now despair at ever making her tough enough against large spawns - she handles bosses easily, but large numbers of minions can't be debuffed enough in time. Her primary is also weak on AoE with nothing to compensate for it the way Shields does. And she seems much more of an endurance hog, and I don't now how Tough or Weave could ever be sustained on her. So the MA/SD scrapper gets the nod instead.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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I was playing my Martial Arts/Invulnerability Scrapper all day yesterday. 
The only problem I know about Martial Arts is that the attacks actually use more Endurance than they should for their damage. Maybe one of the number crunchers can tell me if that is still true?
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MA/Invuln.......I need to try that.
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It's pretty... Not the strongest scrapper I've ever played, but definitely pretty. I was waffling between a +Rech/Aid Self vs. a +Def/Weave build... and found myself MUCH happier with Weave. But, YMMV.
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
[ QUOTE ]
~ Fix the End cost of Storm Kick. It's still almost 1 end too high and since it's our best DPA attack builds that use it a lot might throw it 12-15 times a minutes. I would love to have somewhere between 10-15 endurance per minute thrown back into my build.
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Not true. Single target attacks are balanced at 5.2 endurance per 1.0 damage scale. Storm Kick is damage scale 1.32. It uses 7.0044 endurance. It should use 6.8640 endurance. So, its 0.14 too high, not 1.0 too high.
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Touch of Fear
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Touch of Fear is already on par with Cobra Strike. Touch of Fear has a -acc debuff (which is only really useful against enemies that resist most of it anyway) and no damage to go along with the fear. Cobra Strike does damage (however minor it may be) and does a stun, which is a better status effect than Fear for mitigation purposes.
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Siphon Life, and Parry/Divine Avalanche.
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Siphon Life is less a mitigation power and more of an attack with slight mitigation potential attacked to it. It's an attack that has a tad bit of a heal attached (it really isn't all that impressive, honestly). Parry/DA, on the other hand, are absurdly powerful. I don't think we'll be seeing anything quite like it again ever. Parry/DA are just... ugh...
And how are you trying to match Touch of Fear (re: pure mitigation) with the Parry/DA (mitigation attack)? Touch of Fear is pure mitigation whereas Parry and DA are inferior versions of existing attacks (re: worse DPA) that provide a large amount of buff to compensate. The only power that is really commensurate to it is ToF and ToF doesn't deal damage.
However, I think I can agree with your intent. Giving Cobra Strike a faster recharge, actual damage, and possibly either a lower mag stun or shorter duration to account for the improvement would work wonders for it.
However, this only really addresses Cobra Strikes woes. Siphon Life was fixed to account for DM's lack of real attack powers (Smite, Shadow Punch, and MG were pretty much it unless you wanted to saddle yourself with Shadow Maul). MA still has 5 other perfectly serviceable single target attacks, 3 of which have some form of mitigatory potential (knockdown and chance to stun). Maybe it would be better to instead add some additional utility to Cobra Strike to make it a viable attack. Tossing in some -def and -res would probably make it a bit more popular, especially since you'd be increasing the damage against the target by poking him silly. 10% -def and 20% -res for 10 secs probably wouldn't be entirely out of the question, especially considering how much damage you'd be losing out on by including it in an attack chain.
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Touch of Fear
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Touch of Fear is already on par with Cobra Strike. Touch of Fear has a -acc debuff (which is only really useful against enemies that resist most of it anyway) and no damage to go along with the fear. Cobra Strike does damage (however minor it may be) and does a stun, which is a better status effect than Fear for mitigation purposes.
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Siphon Life, and Parry/Divine Avalanche.
[/ QUOTE ]
Siphon Life is less a mitigation power and more of an attack with slight mitigation potential attacked to it. It's an attack that has a tad bit of a heal attached (it really isn't all that impressive, honestly). Parry/DA, on the other hand, are absurdly powerful. I don't think we'll be seeing anything quite like it again ever. Parry/DA are just... ugh...
And how are you trying to match Touch of Fear (re: pure mitigation) with the Parry/DA (mitigation attack)? Touch of Fear is pure mitigation whereas Parry and DA are inferior versions of existing attacks (re: worse DPA) that provide a large amount of buff to compensate. The only power that is really commensurate to it is ToF and ToF doesn't deal damage.
However, I think I can agree with your intent. Giving Cobra Strike a faster recharge, actual damage, and possibly either a lower mag stun or shorter duration to account for the improvement would work wonders for it.
However, this only really addresses Cobra Strikes woes. Siphon Life was fixed to account for DM's lack of real attack powers (Smite, Shadow Punch, and MG were pretty much it unless you wanted to saddle yourself with Shadow Maul). MA still has 5 other perfectly serviceable single target attacks, 3 of which have some form of mitigatory potential (knockdown and chance to stun). Maybe it would be better to instead add some additional utility to Cobra Strike to make it a viable attack. Tossing in some -def and -res would probably make it a bit more popular, especially since you'd be increasing the damage against the target by poking him silly. 10% -def and 20% -res for 10 secs probably wouldn't be entirely out of the question, especially considering how much damage you'd be losing out on by including it in an attack chain.
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Um I agree with you on everything except 1 thing I want to point out:
The others are mitigation attacks (except for ToF, of course), however they are all stackable, which makes them consistent and useful (or just consistently useful).
A breakdown of the numbers:
Touch of Fear puts a -11% tohit debuff for 20 seconds, with a 8 second base recharge. (Neglecting fear for its arguement of usefulness)
Parry/DA gives +15% defense for 10 seconds with a 3 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike gives a mag 3 stun for 12 seconds with a 20 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike is the only one of the three that gives you a longer recharge than duration of the effect. That means bosses can be taken out of comission with the power by itself in various cases. I agree that either giving it better damage or a shorter recharge would make it more useful.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
[ QUOTE ]
Um I agree with you on everything except 1 thing I want to point out:
The others are mitigation attacks (except for ToF, of course), however they are all stackable, which makes them consistent and useful (or just consistently useful).
A breakdown of the numbers:
Touch of Fear puts a -11% tohit debuff for 20 seconds, with a 8 second base recharge. (Neglecting fear for its arguement of usefulness)
Parry/DA gives +15% defense for 10 seconds with a 3 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike gives a mag 3 stun for 12 seconds with a 20 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike is the only one of the three that gives you a longer recharge than duration of the effect. That means bosses can be taken out of comission with the power by itself in various cases. I agree that either giving it better damage or a shorter recharge would make it more useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's also ignoring the fact that MA has other powers within it that it can use to stack up the stun with. None of the other power sets mentioned have a power with which they can stack the effect. You can also increase the duration of Cobra Strike but you can't increase the duration of either of the powers mentioned.
If you slot Cobra Strike for 95% recharge and 95% stun duration, you can stack 2 Cobra Strikes (10.3 sec recharge, 1.848 activation time, and 23.2 sec duration = 191% up time), which is gonna stun anything but an AV. Get some decent global +recharge and it gets better (200% +recharge = 6.67 sec recharge, 1.848 activation time, 23.2 sec duration = 272% up time).
Of course, that's assuming someone was slotting it to use it. It's got naturally bad numbers I'll admit. ToF and DA/Parry beat the crap out of it, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be.
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Siphon Life is less a mitigation power and more of an attack with slight mitigation potential attacked to it. It's an attack that has a tad bit of a heal attached (it really isn't all that impressive, honestly).
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with you here. Siphon Life's heal is incredibly powerful, on part with Reconstruction over time (or stronger depending on how much recharge you have). Firing Reconstruction every 30s is roughly 1.667 base hp%/sec. Siphon Life (slotted as a heal) equals that when being used every 12s (zero recharge). Reconstruction every 20 seconds is 2.5% base hp/sec, which SL equals being used every 8s (so 6s rech or roughly 66% enhancement).
That's not as impressive on, say a Regen, but on a set with a lot of proactive mitigation (Invuln)? That's huge.
Yeah, I know, that's when slotted as a heal rather than an attack, but I don't think it's minor at all. Besides, if you frankenslot just for raw enhancement, you can get a hefty amount of both.
[ QUOTE ]
unless you wanted to saddle yourself with Shadow Maul
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm... not going there... :P
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Siphon Life is less a mitigation power and more of an attack with slight mitigation potential attacked to it. It's an attack that has a tad bit of a heal attached (it really isn't all that impressive, honestly).
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to disagree with you here. Siphon Life's heal is incredibly powerful, on part with Reconstruction over time (or stronger depending on how much recharge you have). Firing Reconstruction every 30s is roughly 1.667 base hp%/sec. Siphon Life (slotted as a heal) equals that when being used every 12s (zero recharge). Reconstruction every 20 seconds is 2.5% base hp/sec, which SL equals being used every 8s (so 6s rech or roughly 66% enhancement).
That's not as impressive on, say a Regen, but on a set with a lot of proactive mitigation (Invuln)? That's huge.
Yeah, I know, that's when slotted as a heal rather than an attack, but I don't think it's minor at all. Besides, if you frankenslot just for raw enhancement, you can get a hefty amount of both.
[/ QUOTE ]
The point was that it's a small bit of healing over time, not a reactive type power like you would use with ToF and Cobra Strike. It's an attack that has the side effect of healing you a bit. It's not a support ability with a side effect of damage like the others listed.
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unless you wanted to saddle yourself with Shadow Maul
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I'm... not going there... :P
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When referencing single target dps, you are saddling yourself with Shadow Maul. I'm just as big a fan of Shadow Maul as you are Sarrate. :P
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The point was that it's a small bit of healing over time, not a reactive type power like you would use with ToF and Cobra Strike. It's an attack that has the side effect of healing you a bit. It's not a support ability with a side effect of damage like the others listed.
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Okay, now I understand where you're coming from. (I still think you're downplaying its potency, but that's also Invuln synergy talking.)
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When referencing single target dps, you are saddling yourself with Shadow Maul. I'm just as big a fan of Shadow Maul as you are Sarrate. :P
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Ahh, okay, fair enough. 
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The point was that it's a small bit of healing over time, not a reactive type power like you would use with ToF and Cobra Strike. It's an attack that has the side effect of healing you a bit. It's not a support ability with a side effect of damage like the others listed.
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Okay, now I understand where you're coming from. (I still think you're downplaying its potency, but that's also Invuln synergy talking.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course I downplay the potency of it. It's 21 hp/sec to my */regen that already manages 64 hp/sec without taking the heal from DP or Recon into consideration. It's gonna be a lot better to secondaries that don't have much in the way of additional hp/sec, like */Invuln, */SR, and */SD. It's the same reason why none of those sets particularly care about the -tohit of Dark Melee past their mid 30s.
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That's also ignoring the fact that MA has other powers within it that it can use to stack up the stun with. None of the other power sets mentioned have a power with which they can stack the effect. You can also increase the duration of Cobra Strike but you can't increase the duration of either of the powers mentioned.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well....ToF's -tohit stacks with the entire set. But besides that yeah, I was just pointing out that DA/Parry and ToF are better standalone powers that are potent out of the box.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
Hmm..so do you think if I hold out on my MA scrapper till the mid-20s or so I'll start to like him after I get stamina and dragon's tail and stuff like that?
[ QUOTE ]
The others are mitigation attacks (except for ToF, of course), however they are all stackable, which makes them consistent and useful (or just consistently useful).
A breakdown of the numbers:
Touch of Fear puts a -11% tohit debuff for 20 seconds, with a 8 second base recharge. (Neglecting fear for its arguement of usefulness)
Parry/DA gives +15% defense for 10 seconds with a 3 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike gives a mag 3 stun for 12 seconds with a 20 second base recharge.
Cobra Strike is the only one of the three that gives you a longer recharge than duration of the effect. That means bosses can be taken out of commission with the power by itself in various cases. I agree that either giving it better damage or a shorter recharge would make it more useful.
[/ QUOTE ]
The quoted post explains it fairly well.
Out of the box Touch of Fear can negate a Lt. indefinitely. It also has a hefty ToHit debuff for things immune to fear. Cobra fully slotted stacks for only a second or two, and it doesn't have any secondary effect against hard targets.
Siphon Life basically negated the need to take Aid Self in high defense builds at no loss of DPS. That's huge.
Of course there is no direct correlation that makes comparison easy. I can only tell you from experience that other than shutting down toggled ToHit debuffs off Lt mobs, Cobra Strike is pretty useless, and even then it's questionable since it also has to hit through the debuff.
I have three MAs, and my MA/Dark with Obsidian Shield was specifically designed to use Obsidian Shield + Cobra + Eagle's Claw + Thunder Kick to keep enemies stunned out. After working up and testing that strategy against hard bosses and trying to keep them stunned out I determined that Air Superiority was better mitigation than the combination of all those stuns.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
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And it's still fun to Crane Kick an enemy over the face of a cliff.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crane Kick alone is MAs sexyness, I seen someone Crane Kick a Freakshow stunner Freak down some stairs and it was just the funniest thing I have ever seen. OMG I was playing with one of the greatest MA scrappers I have ever seen last night (Azone) wow to see him play made MA a set worth having.
It does lack AoE but with enough recharge you can spam Dragon's tail, it sucks you get it so late in the game though...well I guess halfway isn't that late
Oh yeah Eagles Claw is one of the coolest looking moves in the game, I think that reason alone is why I made my MA/Reg
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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Crane Kick alone is MAs sexyness, I seen someone Crane Kick a Freakshow stunner Freak down some stairs and it was just the funniest thing I have ever seen. OMG I was playing with one of the greatest MA scrappers I have ever seen last night (Azone) wow to see him play made MA a set worth having.
It does lack AoE but with enough recharge you can spam Dragon's tail, it sucks you get it so late in the game though...well I guess halfway isn't that late
Oh yeah Eagles Claw is one of the coolest looking moves in the game, I think that reason alone is why I made my MA/Reg
[/ QUOTE ]
And this sums up MA... Just ooooo sooo sexy
[ QUOTE ]
What they *need* to fix:
~ Fix the End cost of Storm Kick. It's still almost 1 end too high and since it's our best DPA attack builds that use it a lot might throw it 12-15 times a minutes. I would love to have somewhere between 10-15 endurance per minute thrown back into my build.
What I'd like to see:
~ Since we lack AoE and do smashing damage I'd like a little to see some more beef in our single target damage. We need a 70-75 DPA attack to pair with Storm Kick.
~ Make Crippling Axe Kick do -Recharge like the description says. It would be a nice mitigation tool against foes that can't be stunned like AVs and EBs.
~ Make Cobra Strike useful. Since it's one of our few hand strikes it would be nice if it pumped out around 70-75 DPA to give us some single target beef. You could also bump the stun duration.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see those things.