Can't "get" Kehldians


CosmicThunderer

 

Posted

I've always wanted to try a Kheldian, but was never able to get a Hero up to 50. Not sure why, considering I have several 50 Villains, including a Fortunata and a Huntsman, but I could never get into a Hero enough to quite get to 50.

So I cheated a bit. Before the "Abusing Mission Architect" letter, I was, in fact, abusing the Mission Architect. I wasn't fullblown power-levelling, but I did get a Mind/Empathy Controller to 50 much faster than the Devs likely intended. My goal was singular: Get to 50 and make a Warshade.

I'm really into astro-physics, and have a concept idea for a Warshade that doesn't work for a Peacebringer. It's all about black holes, gravity, etc. So I finally make my Warshade... and it just isn't fun.

I feel like the squishiest of squishy blasters, only with lower damage. He's only at 12, so I don't have Dwarf or many of the secondary powers, so that could play a large part. In Human form, I've got the first 2 blasts, which don't seem to kill fast enough. Without Veteran attacks (I have all 3), I honestly don't know how I would finish anything off. When I use Nova form, I seem to burn through Endurance and Health even faster.

Basically, I need some Kheldian encouragement. What powers should I have and focus on using in the pre-20 game? What should I be looking forward to as my defining power? What should I not waste my time on? Thanks for the help.


 

Posted

Pre-20, get Nova.

Seriously.

Between 6 and 20, Kheldians in Nova form are like the perma-flying artillery blueside. Your AoE attacks can get spammed fast and furious, and the damage really adds up.

In fact, pre-20, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find a blaster that outdamages you in the AoE setting. I'm sure there are some out there, but given your inherent damage bonus while in Nova, plus the extra goodness of some good Cosmic Balancing, you're flying Purple Death.

Post-20, blasters catch up fast, and I believe they end up having a higher damage cap than Kheldians do, but you're easily able to near that cap yourself without having to rely on anyone else, AND you'll be able to cap your resists. So right around 32 or so you're flying, near-invincible, Purple Death.

I'm not saying that Warshades that are Human-only are "gimp". I'm saying instead that, to get the very most out of your Warshade, play it tri-form for the double mire (human and dwarf) AoE goodness (nova) with great resists (human to use it, the resists carry over to all forms).


 

Posted

With most AT's, the early levels are a bit of a chore, but I believe it is even more pronounced for Kheldians. Honestly, all I can tell you about the pre-20 game is to grin and bear it. The pain you experience can be off-set quite a bit by getting on large teams to take advantage of the team-link bonuses that will work on both your human and Nova forms.

You can play however you'd like, but in those early levels I considered myself a blaster (in Nova form) with a few ancillary powers that could be useful...immobilize, teleport etc.

Particularly for WS's, the early-20s are when you start to come into your own. By that time, you will have the ability to use 2 mires (upping your damage tremendously), and at 22 when you get Stygian Circle, you will be able to refill your HP and End bar. This will revolutionize the way you see your character. Sure, there will still be struggles, but, particularly in large teams, you will be able to refill after every fight off of several defeated enemies.

Be patient - the early levels go pretty quickly. The pre-20 game on Kheldians is not a good indicator of how things will be for you.


 

Posted

In my experience, the pre-20 life for a PB/WS is actually better than most other AT's. You get a travel power straight away, as well as some other really good ones that give you a leg up on other AT's. The caveat? Both sides of the Kheldian coin are best played on teams.

As I stated previously, pre-20 on a full team, you're a floating artillery platform should you choose Nova. The AoE's in that form aren't quite as endurance intensive, and are more damaging than you'll witness blasters being able to put out. Not to mention the inherent accuracy bonus and recovery that you get from being in the form. Let the tanker dive in, and then watch their jaws drop by 2-shotting the majority of the spawns.

Something to think about is what you want your Kheld to do. It's tempting to just go hog wild on your powers, but slots really limit your effectiveness. I'd caution you to pick 1-2 things that you want your Kheld to do REALLY well over the course of its career, and focus on those things. As an example, my PB is focused on two things: Melee damage/survivability in Human form, and massive AoE damage from Nova. I'm not worried about picking up or slotting my human-form AoE attacks, as Nova covers that nicely and will deal substantially more damage. Similarly, I'm not worried about my Nova single target attacks, as Human-form covers that, and does a better job with it.

Does my PB care about control? No. Taunt? No. Additional travel powers? No. He's focused on a specific couple of things, and really...really excells in those areas.

Try figuring out something similar with your Warshade, and I think you'll like the results.


 

Posted

To really "get" your keld powers Plasma has the best guide I have read. I seriously never cared at all for Kelds unitl I read that guide... I now have 4 WS's and 3 PBers... I'm hooked! But seriously it is a great read and really helps you speed up the learning curve needed on these guys.


 

Posted

Teaming helps the most. Using that inherent of yours get that amaizing damage buff and resistance buff from each of your teammates and now works in forms. I wouldn't know about that since both my PB and WS are all hum from 1 - whatever level they are now. They are not my cup of tea, but they are nice, I kinda wanted a Jack of All but they were just a bit off I wanted a bit more control and a better pet along with some melee and ranged attacks, so you could guess what I rolled when CoV came out.


"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill

"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."

-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp

 

Posted

As a Lv12 Warshade, contemplate the following:

  1. Nova form improves your ToHit (9.0% unslotted according to Mid's).
  2. Most (if not all) of your attacks does -speed;-recharge.
  3. Gravimetric Snare is an Immobilize!
  4. Hasten can speed up your Nova attacks if you clicked it before going Nova.
  5. Know what team-buffs you get from each team-member.
  6. Teaming with a tank means you can usually blast things around the Tank without fear.
The following partly-built Warshade is essentially a Nova-centric Blaster, although the build itself intentionally does not use the respec trick to slot Nova powers earlier than they are available.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Squid: Level 12 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ebon Eye -- Acc(A), EndRdx(5)
Level 1: Absorption -- ResDam(A)
Level 2: Gravimetric Snare -- Acc(A), EndRdx(3), EndRdx(3)
Level 4: Shadow Bolt -- Acc(A), EndRdx(5)
Level 6: Dark Nova -- EndMod(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(9)
Level 10: Starless Step -- Acc(A)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- Acc(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 6: Dark Nova Bolt -- EndRdx(A)
Level 6: Dark Nova Blast -- Acc(A), Acc(11), EndRdx(11)
Level 6: Dark Nova Emanation -- Acc(A), Acc(7)
Level 6: Dark Nova Detonation -- Acc(A), Acc(7)

If you play with the build above, team with a Tank, you can let the Tank jump in, gather some aggro, then hit Hasten, jump in with the Tank, hit Sunless Mire, use Gravimetric Snare to immobilize any runners, then jump back (and into the air), while shifting to Nova so you can blast the heck out of what's left.

Also remember that the first two Nova attacks are single-target and recharge pretty fast on their own. They can continuously slow down an enemy that is chasing you (kiting) so you can use that to your advantage against strong enemies that are melee-oriented because more often than not, their ranged attacks, if they have any, will fall behind your range as a Nova.

I also recommend learning about binds and using them. Take for example a bind that will shift you to Human-form and fire off a Gravimetric Snare attack... this bind can used as you're dive-bombing an enemy and once the enemy is immobilized, you can switch to Nova again and blast it while Gravimetric Snare is recharging!

Being a TriFormShade™ isn't easy, but it sure is fun with the right strategies.


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) Augmenting Peacebringers The Umbra Illuminati

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
...I kinda wanted a Jack of All but they were just a bit off I wanted a bit more control and a better pet along with some melee and ranged attacks, so you could guess what I rolled when CoV came out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow... you just described my Lv50 TriFormShade™, she stuns, holds, suck endurance self-buffs and has more than 2 (sometimes 3) pets that DPS and debuff the enemies.

Yes, it wasn't an easy journey to Lv50, but by her late 20's and early 30's she already blossomed nicely as my strategies for her matured (not surprisingly coinciding with me discovering how to rebind my NUMPAD keys for her).

Oddly enough, I also rolled SoA's... but they've basically been sitting and gathering dust as I find their gameplay rather boring.


I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) Augmenting Peacebringers The Umbra Illuminati

 

Posted

Hang in there. I have a level 22 Peacebringer, and am working on a Warshade too. Shifting forms based on your situation does help fill holes in groups, as you rapidly become a "Jack/jane of all trades", being a great blaster in Nova form, and Dwarf lets you tank nicely at level 20. I have had players comment on how I constantly seem to adapt to the battle, and fill in gaps as needed. Play it, and experiment... You'll be glad you did.


 

Posted

First of all, if you're having Endurance problems in Nova form, slot an EndMod in the power instead of whatever you've got there. (Likely Fly) If you can, add a second slot. If you're at least to DO level, you should be able to run Nova for a while without running out of End. By SO level, you should be able to get by with only one slot. Do slot your AoE and Cone for End, though, that way you can use them as often as your single target attacks without draining End.

Since you only have four attacks to choose from, though, and no toggles but Nova itself, you should not be running low on End, unless you're switching back to Human form a lot, to "fill in" your attack chain.

In Human form, Warshades mature slowly, so you really want to rely on it for utility and control until you get to 22. Don't worry about blasts, that's what Nova form is for. You might want to go with Shadow Cloak and Starless Step so you can sneak around and single out foes until you get to higher levels. Gravimetric Snare and Essense Drain are going to be your big powers, not for the damage, but for things Nova can't do.

Finally, there is Sunless Mire. I advise getting it, but there are plusses and minuses to it. You can fire it off and then shift to Nova for a damage boost, which is good, but in order to get a good bonus you need a large group, and firing it off in a large group can be fatal to anything but Dwarf form. So I actually advise using it against smaller numbers. Get the End cost down so you can use it carelessly, and just get 11% damage boosts from using it on single targets. You can use it as you're about to take on two or three if you want.

PBs aren't quite as bad, but really, you're waiting for 22. At 22 you'll get Stygian Circle, and that changes everything. Of course, you'll probably get Dwarf form, too, but just hold out until you get there. Stay in Nova form most of the time to recover End, and use your Human form to support it. With my own Tri-Form Kheldian he has no blasts at all (outside of the eye beams) he's totally melee. That provides the least amount of overlap between Nova and Human form. That may or may not work for you, but the main thing is to try and use your forms together instead of trying to do everything in either one separately.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Shifting forms based on your situation does help fill holes in groups, as you rapidly become a "Jack/jane of all trades"

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking my cue from some of the Tri-Form strategies on this board, my Tri-Form never stays in one form. He's constantly shifting, but then, that's his concept, he's a shape changer, he uses his shapeshifting as another weapon. I've had teammates tell me, "You're crazy, but you're really good with that Kheldian."

Obviously, if I'm taking more of a Tanker role I'll be in Dwarf form more often, while if I'm trying to deal damage I'll be in Nova or Human form. But I'll wheel around while in the middle of an aggroed group, shift to Nova, AoE a group of foes on the other side of the room, shift back to Human with a Essense Drain or Stygian Circle to recover the HP I lost by dropping my defenses, then go right back to Dwarf and Taunt. I don't know how effective it is, but it's fun.

I have a Human Form Kheld for staying in one form all the time. And really, if I slotted Dwarf or Nova for staying in it all the time I'd do that, too. But except when I get bored and just want to clear a whole map in Nova form I like shifting around.


 

Posted

After 20 I respecced out of nova. Dwarf was just what I needed. now in my late 40s, I'm almost glad I don't have Nova. The extra slots have helped.

I have a few macros on my Dwarf bar specifically to drop form and hit a human-form power. The one I use the most is Stygian Circle. But that's not the point of the post.

I'm sick of blasting. I needed to melee. I got both out of my WS. My human-form powers were too awesome to ignore, and my Dwarf (With recent changes) Is better than most scrankers I've played.

So the best thing I can tell you must come in four separate lines:

Just.
Give.
It.
Time.

~PPP


 

Posted

I have issues with warshades. My peacebringer i leveled to fifty the quickest out of my three fifties. Warshade i dont like that i have to take a form for flight. That stygrian circle is a must have for warshades. I didnt get the grav snare cause it really dosent do too much. Other than that i went blasty with my warshade with two inital sheilds and intangible form with superjump. Finally got him to 26ish and still havent felt the love from a warshade yet.


 

Posted

Do you have Gravitic and Well?

Because for me it was those two powers that made all the difference.


 

Posted

Warshades don't have attacks that are pure dynamite by themselves, really, and you don't really get any controllery powers until the higher levels. Sunless Mire gives you a much-needed damage boost at lv 12, though it may need some ACC slotting. When you get your Black Dwarf, you can stack it's Mire with Sunless Mire for the REALLY nasty damage.

Personally, I grabbed Niva form for my Warshade and pretty-much stayed in Nova form until level 20 unless I was clicking Hasten or stealthing through missions with SS and Shadow Cloak. Once I hit lv 20, though, the Dwarf form made my WS into a monster. Right now, I've respecc'd into a mostly Bi-Form WS who repeatedly spams Mires and attacks while using Stygian Circle to maintain endurance and health. When needed, it can also act as a tanker. Win-Win. I still have the Nova form, but it's only there to serve as a flight travel power.


Too many alts to list.

 

Posted

WS are really fun in the later portion of the game (30ish). I cannot find a funner build to play.






" I don't let me kids play on the Freedom Server" -Oya

 

Posted

I had a lvl 16 WS collecting dust for a few months...I worked so hard to get one and then plllttt! I couldn't bare it! Well I read this Topic due to the fact that I feel ALOT like the OP...well I took everyone's word for it and Stuck it out. WOW

I enjoyed playing him so much! I normally play Red Side so I NEED damage and my Kheld greatly obliged! It was so hardcore that when I'm on team and I start my combo of Mire -> Nova -> Blast to oblivion the other team mates would switch baddies b/c they know the ones I am blasting will not last for more than 30 seconds. He is now 21 and I am having a blast! I still have more awesome powers to experience!

The damage I put out right now from stacking the Two Mires with my Dwarf unslotted amazes me...I can't imagine what he'll be like with SO's....



 

Posted

Simply put, they are late bloomers with unique abilities in the early stages. Warshades with their double mires and holds become great dps later on. And Peacebringers with their high smashing power become heavy hitters out the gate. Both come with forms that are easy to grasp and easier to get lost in. But yes, you will feel like a squishie early on. Once you get dwarf it becomes something hard to let go. I see where your coming from though, I had my gripes with them when I first created one, then I got passed the 20's and everything synergized.


"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"

"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."

 

Posted

One suggestion early on to deal with End woes in Nova form, do some frankenslotting (mixing cheap set IOs) to get some End Reduction in the single target and AoE attacks. Stygian solves it later, for the most part, though fighting AVs can still be tough when you don't have bodies to drain for awhile.


 

Posted

Stick it out until level 32... thank us later

Nevermind what's waiting for you at 38. It just doesn't get any better than that.