The problem I have with that is that... well, I wouldn't buy it. Literally, I wouldn't pay for it.
I already have characters I'm heavily invested in that I'd love to be able to explore the other side with. But effectively recreating them? Hell no, no thanks. I already played them to 50 once. Leveling them to 50 again, and having to re-slot them with expensive enhancers (some of which are now vastly more expensive)? I'll pass bigtime.
And if it's a matter of rolling new characters, that's a lot less interesting to me. Rolling something I've never played before is fine, I do that in new issues. Rolling something I've already played just to play it on the other side? Eh. That's way less attractive to me.
I really want this to be about the ability to move existing characters around, and for that to be viable, it needs to not strip them of the majority of their achievements.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I don't think the time-sink will be starting your character over- they have to realize very few people would go for it, certainly not enough to justify it as the main feature of a paid expansion.
I think we'll get some kind of 'karma' bar you fill up with blue or red 'moral exp' that will unlock a side-switching story arc.
as for a merger, the opportunity to change sides undermines Positron's (stupid) rationale for seperate markets. If that big pile of hero inf can physically migrate to red-side, the money situation will balance out sooner rather than later.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so.
I'm still from the school that "influence is from doing heroic things and infamy is from doing bad things."
I think when you take a character across the line, you should loose all the inf you have.
You are no longer INFLUENTIAL as a hero, once you become a villain. it's time to prove that you are truly a villain and start from scratch.
Same goes for a villain becoming a hero. No one is going to trust you, it's time to build up your rep (influence) from square one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Influence isnt the same as trust. Moreso, as a villain you aren't to be trusted period, and still you gain infamy.
Anyway to counter argument: If doctor Doom suddenly decides to go good, then people wont trust him, but his opinion will still weigh heavily, knowing that he knows what he knows.
Infamy/influence is just renown, people knowing you.
The metafor (rp-wise) never worked because Inf acts like money, it's a trading good. RP-wise it's always been flawed.
But regardless of looking at it from an RP stance or not, I think you should be able to take your stuff with you.
Maybe even your base, if you are in a solo VG/SG.
The bases are in some unexplained location anyway.
(Dr Doom wouldn't give up his castle, would he?)
Creating three different types of currency and market would divide the game more and more, while combining the economies will make the game 'one' again.
Personally I hope the alignments will have grey areas ( like villains having friendly ties with single heroes or SG's, which happens in the comics too).
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I hope the alignments will have grey areas ( like villains having friendly ties with single heroes or SG's, which happens in the comics too).
[/ QUOTE ]
Depending on whether everything "going rogue related" in the survey last year makes it into this product, that seems likely. What they described was a system where you could go solid good, solid bad, or some grey area in between.
I have to say almost all my characters would probably live in the grey area, if it were an option. Most of them are rather dark heroes or mildly principled mercenaries (for the villains).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
I would be willing to place money on them working it so that if you have a character switch sides, you start from square one; at level one, with no enhancements or inf. But in order to make it your character you keep the same powersets, AT, costume slots and character name. It makes sense from a business standpoint; leveling up your character takes time, and in an MMO time=money. It makes sense in a play standpoint; just because you have a lot of reputation and security clearance with Recluse doesn't mean Hero Corps automatically recognizes your authority, you have to earn it.
In a perfect world in order to accomplish this the devs would add another step to the login process; enter name and password -> choose server -> choose character -> choose faction. It wouldn't be that different a mechanic than dual builds currently is, just more involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again power isnt the same as trust. herocorps may not trust you yet, but that's no reason for you to forget what powers you have.
I believe that the price for switcching will be some kind of TF, any other 'price' is just plain illogical.
(granted the return to level 1 sounds like a good business proposition, but I don't think players will happily do that no less spend money on that)
[ QUOTE ]
I would be willing to place money on them working it so that if you have a character switch sides, you start from square one; at level one, with no enhancements or inf. But in order to make it your character you keep the same powersets, AT, costume slots and character name. It makes sense from a business standpoint; leveling up your character takes time, and in an MMO time=money. It makes sense in a play standpoint; just because you have a lot of reputation and security clearance with Recluse doesn't mean Hero Corps automatically recognizes your authority, you have to earn it.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would be a deal breaker for an awful lot of people. I seriously doubt I'd move more than 1 character under that rule.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
thinking about it, you know what makes sense is the lower level you are, the easier it is to switch.
since your 'reputation' isn't secure yet.
The higher level, the harder and the longer it would take.
maybe you have to earn 'reputation' equal to your career exp to switch sides?
that would certainly be a time sink, heh.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I am thinking of the comic book when Manticore switched by what was essentially one story arc (granted he was faking) so they could do it so many different ways but the more annoying they make it, the more people they will deter from doing it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Wild thought - maybe with the purchase of the expansion - like the dual build - you'll get a third build, only usuable for the opposite faction. That way you wouldn't lose your original setup.
[ QUOTE ]
thinking about it, you know what makes sense is the lower level you are, the easier it is to switch.
since your 'reputation' isn't secure yet.
The higher level, the harder and the longer it would take.
maybe you have to earn 'reputation' equal to your career exp to switch sides?
that would certainly be a time sink, heh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this Nethergoat applying Role Playing reasons to game functionality?
*EDIT* Welcome to the Praetorian Market forum.
[ QUOTE ]
I would be willing to place money on them working it so that if you have a character switch sides, you start from square one; at level one, with no enhancements or inf. But in order to make it your character you keep the same powersets, AT, costume slots and character name. It makes sense from a business standpoint; leveling up your character takes time, and in an MMO time=money. It makes sense in a play standpoint; just because you have a lot of reputation and security clearance with Recluse doesn't mean Hero Corps automatically recognizes your authority, you have to earn it.
In a perfect world in order to accomplish this the devs would add another step to the login process; enter name and password -> choose server -> choose character -> choose faction. It wouldn't be that different a mechanic than dual builds currently is, just more involved.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uberguy is right. If this is the way it works very few people will pay to do it......
Unless of course they put Incarnates in the game and the way to unlock the Incarnate AT is to level up as one side then crunch all the way back down to level 1 on the other, grind your way back up to 50, and tada you have unlocked the Incarnate Power set for that character only.
I'd be inclined to do something like that if the incarnate AT could combine AT classes.
Say like my level 50 Blaster could choose to keep the blaster primary but take a controller primary as a secondary power set. My archer would be in there as a Archery Blaster/Trick Arrow Defender in a heart beat.
Yeah I know wishful thinking but it would take something as over powered as that to make me grind twice to get there. This might also be "the way" that you expand past 50 that was being hinted at.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
[ QUOTE ]
Is this Nethergoat applying Role Playing reasons to game functionality?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a fan of good game design that dovetails nicely with the RP setting, I'm just against using RP to justify bad mechanics.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
I am trying mightily to not get too excited about Going Rogue.
I think MA was a bigger success in general for the game but it held little interest for me. But Going Rogue has the potential of amusing me an insane amount. Or making me go meh if it is something like starting over at level 1.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
The thing is if you bounce down to level 1, what will happen is it will be a 1 side game.
As everyone switches to hero for access to the better market at as low a level as they can.
And if this does happen, if you think powerleveling is annoying now.... OOOOOH BOY you aint seen nothing yet.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
[ QUOTE ]
Wild thought - maybe with the purchase of the expansion - like the dual build - you'll get a third build, only usuable for the opposite faction. That way you wouldn't lose your original setup.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still wouldn't do it. I want to transfer existing characters, not have to level them again in a new environment, even if I could go back to the old environment and have all their good stuff there.
Why would I want to level the same character again?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
The thing is if you bounce down to level 1, what will happen is it will be a 1 side game.
As everyone switches to hero for access to the better market at as low a level as they can.
And if this does happen, if you think powerleveling is annoying now.... OOOOOH BOY you aint seen nothing yet.
[/ QUOTE ]
Would these happen before or after...
"1, The merit system is going to encourage most teams to build for speed. We've seen this before with people being left out or unwanted.
2, Stupidly low rewards on many TF, namely Katie, LRSF, and Eden.
3 Speedfarmers finding new and interesting ways to speed TF's resulting in most if not all TF's getting their rewards heavily cut and joining #2 above.
4 with all the above, Story arcs and Oreo becoming the way the way to get merits, bringing about the death of pug teaming as everyone decides soloing their own merits is more important than teaming."
[ QUOTE ]
I still wouldn't do it. I want to transfer existing characters, not have to level them again in a new environment, even if I could go back to the old environment and have all their good stuff there.
Why would I want to level the same character again?
[/ QUOTE ]
what I'm anticipating, based on public statements and what most forumgoers have seemed to want over the years, is a way to take existing characters from one side to the other.
Nothing else will satisfy the playerbase.
There could certainly be alternative pathways to take if people wanted, but I don't think anybody really wants to 'start over' with a character they've played for X number of hours.
I think the 'balance' will be before you switch, with whatever sort of 'karma' system they come up with to track morality.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Yep. I'm game for content you have to play through or other things you have to do with an existing character in order to be eligable to move. My whole deal is I enjoy playing the existing characters anyway, so I'm on board with that idea. And I might not want to do it with everyone I have, since I do have some goody-two-shoes character concepts. (I don't have much in the wat of died-in-the-wool villains. One, maybe.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
thinking about it, you know what makes sense is the lower level you are, the easier it is to switch.
since your 'reputation' isn't secure yet.
The higher level, the harder and the longer it would take.
maybe you have to earn 'reputation' equal to your career exp to switch sides?
that would certainly be a time sink, heh.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is this Nethergoat applying Role Playing reasons to game functionality?
[/ QUOTE ]
There's at least one similar in-game example; higher level characters have to pay *considerably* more inf for a costume change at the tailor / facemaker. Note particularly that in-game this is frequently posed as an "image makeover", something more than just a change of pants.
Given that from a public perception standpoint, changing sides is a serious image makeover, it's not out of the question that the "cost" involved will be higher for higher-level characters.
The underlying question is probably whether the "moral compass" is a simple meter (and therefore influenced more strongly by recent actions), or has weighting and possibly level scaling underneath it. There are implications of both, not all of them obvious.
Miuramir, Windchime, Sariel the Golden, Scarlet Antinomist...
Casino Extortion #4031: Neutral, Council+Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/CFMA]
Bad Candy #87938: Neutral, Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/HFMA]
CoH Helper * HijackThis
I'm also kind of excited about Positron's comment that it will have "LOTS" of new story arcs and missions.
I'm hoping the MA tools they created have streamlined things on their end enough that we get more mission content than CoV delivered... 0.0
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
ooops here is what I was refering to the press release Press release
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
[ QUOTE ]
Well based on the posi interview it does seem you wont loose inf/inf or level and can switch back and forth as much as you like, so this whole discussion is moot.
[/ QUOTE ]
Interview? [Edit: Ah, nevermind]
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
As for the gray area, my stance is that place should have it's own currency, sg, and vaults.
But it's probably pretty clear that I'm not for all this switch over stuff. I'm also against players taking stuff with them when they go - including sg/vg's.
A thing that many people haven't brought up is the fact that characters may be starting over at level 1 if they change sides. The devs haven't said either way. I know that may come as a big shock to people, but it would definitely extend game play. [u]Become a villain and end up level 1 in Break Out with nothing, now that would really be the kick in the pants, eh?[u]
Doctor Doom had diplomatic immunity too, so you can't really use him as a point for anything. He definitely can't be trusted.
But to put this into your perspective view point if a character from the JLA suddenly went villain, they would not be allowed into the JLA headquarters any more.
From a villain point of view, what villain would be allowed back into a villain base if they had turned hero?
I'm not for all this sneaking into bases in the middle of the night and raiding all the gear and taking it to the other side business.
I feel the same way about the Markets and the Vaults.
Keep everything separate.
[ QUOTE ]
A thing that many people haven't brought up is the fact that characters may be starting over at level 1 if they change sides.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not to be mean, but have you actually read the thread?
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I would be willing to place money on them working it so that if you have a character switch sides, you start from square one; at level one, with no enhancements or inf. But in order to make it your character you keep the same powersets, AT, costume slots and character name. It makes sense from a business standpoint; leveling up your character takes time, and in an MMO time=money. It makes sense in a play standpoint; just because you have a lot of reputation and security clearance with Recluse doesn't mean Hero Corps automatically recognizes your authority, you have to earn it.
In a perfect world in order to accomplish this the devs would add another step to the login process; enter name and password -> choose server -> choose character -> choose faction. It wouldn't be that different a mechanic than dual builds currently is, just more involved.