Do the Devs think that slower lvls = longer play?
By
Alex_Mars,
Posted on: 2009-05-06 01:51 in Mission Architect
To all:
What would be the perfect levelling speed in gameplay hours to the cap, in your opinion?
200-250 hours for a first 50, dropping down to about 100 for those with many. Judging from my coalition mates 'about' 100 is where experienced teams end up
Slow enough that you feel accomplishment, fast enough that it doesn't feel like forever?
I am a 60 month vet with one level 50 (and over 100 alts), so the speed doesn't matter to me, but I'm curious.
For bonus points, how many purple IOs should you acquire in that same amount of time from drops?
Dropped or bought ? I frequently run non-50 content with my 50s then use the inf earned to buy them from the market. A purple per 45 hours seems like a nice figure. 20-25 hours to 'purple out' a power. About as much time at 50 as played to 50 to be a 'fully purpled' build
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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<QR> To all:
What would be the perfect levelling speed in gameplay hours to the cap, in your opinion?
Slow enough that you feel accomplishment, fast enough that it doesn't feel like forever?
I am a 60 month vet with one level 50 (and over 100 alts), so the speed doesn't matter to me, but I'm curious.
For bonus points, how many purple IOs should you acquire in that same amount of time from drops?
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The perfect game in my opinion and would forgo level based advancement. Players commonly only feel a sense a growth in level base games by acquiring new abilities or gear. In a system that only has skills with caps and no levels the toon will grow as the player learns about their abilities.
Since CoH doesn't have gear persay that leaves abilities. Here is the problem, the most potent of the abilities aren't accessible till you achieve a higher level. So players wanting to play a full scale Super hero feel the need to level just to be what the game promises on a box. City of falls into a crevice between Super Hero setting and MMO Mechanics.
Players who access Super Hero content want it to resemble comic book progression. But the problem is that rarely in comic books do the heroes powers change. Unless the comic is built around a development premise, the stories focus on the characters changing and the world around them, not their powers. In the first comic featuring Wolverine you see him stand toe to toe with the Incredible Hulk. A brand new character is fighting one of the most destructive characters in that universe and holding his own. In City of Heroes you can pick the powers you want, take the powers you want, then log in and realize that you can't reproduce feats from comic books because you are level 1. This to me has always been City of's biggest issue. You play the game subdue some minions and realize you have a long and repetitive road ahead of you to get that shiny new power.
If you are going to keep levels in a Super Hero themed game then levels should simply be used for new costumes, power increases, swapping, or content access.
As a side note in the perfect game, you would start by making the character maximum strength and choosing which type of setting you would like to play. Like if you wanted simple short time paced content you good choose development which would be like COH level 1 - 10. If you wanted longer time paced content you choose a different setting and voila higher level.
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Meh.... on a side thought... The core of this game in my opinion is what creates Altitus which makes me think that the shiny level 50 also means Jack by unconcious design.
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QFT - I've been playing MMOs since Meridian 59 - and leveled to max and went hard core into the end-game raiding content of both Everquest and World of Warcraft Pre-Expansions); for two years in WoW I raided Onixya, Molten Core, and Blackwing Lair. After I spent ALL that time just to get my one Main Tier 2ed out; I burnt out.
In all the MMOs I've played, this is the only one where I have serious alts that I am working up (I have one 50, and currently two serious alts in their 40ies; and two villian alts, one 40, the other 24). Friends who know me CAN'T BELIEVE I found an MMO where I like alts because in both EQ and WoW (where I tried alts here and there); I never could really get into any character besides my main.
Also, started in CoH in early closed beta back in 2003 - quit after ED went ive; but came back and have stayed and played since the Invention System went live. Also, I honestly don't know WHY I enjoy alts in CoH but not in other MMOs, but I do.
Also, why I do wish the Devs would honestly try to put in some real end-game content for 50ies; it took me a while to realize that the content they have is different in that the majority of MMOs out the BIG rewards in their end-game content; and for some folks that's where the game begins (ie you don't feel a real 'part' of the world until you go raiding and kill the 'big stuff').
In CoX, the content is spread out (via the TF/SF systems) across the entire level range of your characters. At level 10 you can defeat a named AV that would have done something really nasty to the city/world, etc; so even at that level you can feel like your character did acomplish something (more than say gathering 10 clams, picking 10 flowers, etc; which it what WoW quests present you with at low levels); and that IS a major shift from the majority of the other major MMOs out there. They are more endgame/raid oriented; whereas CoH is 'character's journey' oriented.
So there would be x amount of content for "street level' heroes, 'cosmic' heroes, and every level in between.
Interesting idea.
I'm not sure it would work without something to provide regular improvements in combat effectiveness, It's a game, not a comic, so it has to have some game elements. You have to get more hp, more damage, etc IMHO, not just a more complex backstory and some optional costumes.
I think in an MMO, you want an MMO that works and feels a lot like a comic, not just an interactive online comic.
Of course, YMMV.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Well, the pace of "normal" levellling in CoH is a very slow grind
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I am going to laugh at you now. It's nothing personal.
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Someone above hit the point, which one would hope NCsoft will see as well:
Rapid advancement (be it Farming, or Double XP or whatever) increases subscriptions, which increases revenue. ED and other experience-decreasing measures shrink subscriptions, and therefor revenues.
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Not really. I'd much rather play a game where I reach level 20 in two months of great fun than one wher I'm level 1000 by the end of the week but there's nothing to do.
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I don't consider running Hollows missions for the 57th time "great fun."
Flashbacks now fix the problem of "if I take this contact, I will outlevel this other contact before I'm finished with this arc", and so gives us more content that was previously locked out due to mandatory choices. AE will give us more content on an almost daily basis, so there is never "nothing to do."
for me, slower leveling times = frustration = unsubscription. I started this game in early beta, and have unsubscribed at least a half dozen times since then for varying lengths of time. I will say that twice, I resubbed for a double XP weekend, but then unsubbed a month or two later from the boredom of grinding an alt through the same missions I've run for the last 5 years.
I also get very frustrated spending months (because I don't play every day) getting a character to the late teens-to- 20 only to find that I really don't like it after all. For example, I've leveled 3 or 4 BS scrappers to the high teens/low 20s with different secondaries, trying to find one that had a playstyle I liked. I've deleted each one, after them languishing for months.
I took this opportunity to dust off and level a BS/shield scrapper that I mothballed two weeks after shields came out. I didn't level him all the way up, but I *did* level him up to where I'd quit previous times, then stopped.
There are so many power combinations and concepts one can try in this game, that there is always something new to try out. Doing the "lowbie grind" for the 100th time is NOT entertaining. I think the devs realize this, else they would have killed the AP sewer teams. IMO, the AE farms were nothing more than an extended sewer team.
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They are more endgame/raid oriented; whereas CoH is 'character's journey' oriented.
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Yea dude, but the journey gets old. The first time I played coh, yea the journey was fun, I have even done it again since then, but getting a character to 50 means pretty much starting over unless you want to pvp. 54 boss farms were about as close to fun end game content as I saw it. getting on a good team and steamrolling some of the hardest foes(hardest foes possible to steamroll lol). If coh had some type of raiding, as I never did it in wow, I can image it would get very good results. Because liek myself, others dont enjoy the "journey" to 50 as much as you, and others do. Some of us want to actually have several lvl 50's and DO thing with them. It seems the main point of the game it to get to lvl 50? Then reroll and repeat? For someone who doesnt like a slow grind, the game just doesnt have a lot to offer, especially since i13 pvp :/ and really I guess the devs do just want to keep us in the journey, because they want to keep the leveling slow, which I assume they think keeps us here, but I presume that only works for the ones who are enjoying the content. If someoen didnt find the content fun before AE, they are definatly not gonna find it fun after AE, especially after they got a taste of the "easy button" AE offered.
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So there would be x amount of content for "street level' heroes, 'cosmic' heroes, and every level in between.
Interesting idea.
I'm not sure it would work without something to provide regular improvements in combat effectiveness, It's a game, not a comic, so it has to have some game elements. You have to get more hp, more damage, etc IMHO, not just a more complex backstory and some optional costumes.
I think in an MMO, you want an MMO that works and feels a lot like a comic, not just an interactive online comic.
Of course, YMMV.
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Well thats simple enough, as you complete the content in each branch you gain the ability to alter your character. Each alteration while making your character play slightly different at lower end content could drastically change how he ends up in later content. So you get your options to tweak your hero and preview what will happen to him later. Adding body armor in early content could make your character Iron Man in later content. Advancement would also be controllable in this method. Players doing street level stuff don't ever have to leave. They can stop muggers, kidnappers, and thugs without a cosmic level hero swooping in and taking them all down without breaking a sweet. The middle ground would be area of the game were Heroes of all settings can meet mingle and tackle challenges together in dynamic fashion. Cosmic level hero battles the baddies while the steet level guy disables the computer controlling the doomsday device. Tie in a AE style builder that is setting specific and you got yourself a limitless content style game.
I'm sorry, and admittedly I have more time to play than most since I retired, but even back when I was working 8 hours a day 5 days a week and raising my daughter I managed to take my first 50 from 1 level to 50 in 6 weeks and that was with out PLing and not even a lot of the TFs etc.
All this {censored} about how long and how boring it is to level at a normal rate just makes me think of one question... "Just how whimpy a character have you managed to create and do you realy think getting it to 50 in a day or so makes it any less whimpy against 50 level villains?" Face the facts if you suck and can't solo at level 10 chances are you will suck and not be able to solo at 50 either .. so what the heck is the rush? Granted their are exceptions to that as some characters get a lot more powerful in the later levels when their "GOOOOD" powers become available but for the most part if you can't solo and need a team to survive at lower levels for the most part you need that same team to survive at level 50.
I don't object to farming a level or two here or there to obtain some self imposed goal but level 1 - 50 in one day and never left the AE buiilding in Altas Park? I was there recently and over broadcast a 35 level asked how do I get to Steel Canyon? Let's examin that .. That tells me 1) He is a new player not someone with multiple vet rewards and a pile of 50 levels. 2) He has obviously never left the AE building once in those 35 levels because if he had even visited one other zone on the Yellow Line he'd have probably noticed that Steel Canyon was one of the stops. 3) He's probably headed to Steel to complete the midnighter club arc and get into Cimerora cause someone told him you could make a fortune on the ITF 4) He's in for a real SHOCK when he faces enemies who's main attack isn't flicking a switch on their wrist and calling for help. Cimeroran traitors hit like a ton of bricks amd have those blasted surgeons healing them as fast as you hit them.
That guy was headed off into the COH real world with about as much of a clue as a 1 level in Outbreak... heaven help the team he joins,
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
More importantly.... Do the Devs think that GoSabres should be bought an Aston Martin of his choice?
Oh, so your Batman character could stay in Gotham, or he could advance into bigger 'leagues' and eventually compete toe to toe with Martian Manhunter and the like?
Interesting.
That means there would be 50 'levels' of content for each 'league', which is daunting, but with an AE-like system might be doable. Of course, it wouldn't actually be levels per se, per your preference.
And you speak of choices 'altering' the character. So if you pick up Body Armor, would you have to give something else up? Or would there be some kind of preference, such as normal<tough<body armor at the Gotham level? Would aquiring Acrobatics lock you out of Quick McRunfast, or would you be able to aquire both during play?
You probably haven't thought it out to this extent, but just curious.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
Even worse is a story I heard about a newguy that was bored from levelling in the AE because it was so easy.
A friend of his took him to the 'real world' so he could fight some challenging foes.
The newguy was unhappy because the levelling was so slow.
So now I'm thinking this guy is just out of here a month from now: challenging content is too slow, and easy content is no fun.
So in answer to the OP, the Devs are trying to find a balance.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Do they really think that slowing down our play by taking away farming makes us want to stay?
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No, but they think that leveling really, really fast makes people leave.
One does not imply the other.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Oh, so your Batman character could stay in Gotham, or he could advance into bigger 'leagues' and eventually compete toe to toe with Martian Manhunter and the like?
Interesting.
That means there would be 50 'levels' of content for each 'league', which is daunting, but with an AE-like system might be doable. Of course, it wouldn't actually be levels per se, per your preference.
And you speak of choices 'altering' the character. So if you pick up Body Armor, would you have to give something else up? Or would there be some kind of preference, such as normal<tough<body armor at the Gotham level? Would aquiring Acrobatics lock you out of Quick McRunfast, or would you be able to aquire both during play?
You probably haven't thought it out to this extent, but just curious.
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Think of it like aspects of preferences. You can complete stories that give you access to new aspects which would overwrite old ones. In a system like this though no choice is permanent so given the right time frame like a cool-down you can go into "training" and change them out. This would be represented of choices that are made in developmental comics. A good example was Spider-Man. There was a mini arc about him building body armor. The original Iron spider. Wearing it made him slower but he was near invincible to anything his normal cadre of bad guys could dish out. He quickly discarded it when he realized, that while making him more powerful, sacrificing the agility the effectiveness of his Spider-Sense was too much. Plus while wearing it he tended to be meaner. But that's all character development.
In this type of system swapping out Agility based defense for Armor would alter your characters later stages. He would never have a chance to develop his agility to its finer points. This causes him to rely on the Armor more automatically advancing it upward.
Now this doesn't change what you can do in later levels as far as swapping. But it does causes your choices to be a bit more limited. You can swap out of Body armor at a higher tier but only by replacing it with technology or gadgets. If you stuck with Agility you may have super agility or acrobatic style options.
@Son_Of_Liberty: That's a prety novel concept. Technically, they could tie it into the character origins so that the Science guy could hack the computer and the Mutant fights off an enemy raid, etc
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They are more endgame/raid oriented; whereas CoH is 'character's journey' oriented.
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Yea dude, but the journey gets old.
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Then try altering the journey I can, I HAVE, taken a brand new character fresh out of Outbreak into the sewers below Atlas and emerged in King's Row a 10 level in less than an hour. Ran a few quick radios and got my Raptor Pack, making level 11 along the way, and then headed to Steel Canyon.
Now on a completely different character I logged on on a saturday morning at 11 level and got an invite to do POSI. Good team and within a few hours had the badge and was a level 16. Took a break for lunch and logged back on just to see and sell when a Synaspe TF was forming. I joined and once again in a few hours I was a level 21. After the TF broke I heaed to Talos and while I was at Wentworths finishing up a Sister Psyche TF was starting... You guessed I joined and in 2 hours and 30 minutes I was a level 26.
Someone explain to me what the same old GRIND is because I have ONLY been here 3 and a half year but before when you left Outbreak you had a couple of options.. the sewers to level 7 , contacts to level 5 or 6 in Atlas/Galaxy and some street fighting and then CONTACTs in Kings Row or the Holllows. Back then you RAN everywhere until you reached level 14 and got a permanent travel power oh and a LOT of players were still buying Training Origin Enhancements in the 30s because they couldn't afford anything else.
Personally aside from stopping by to say HI to Dave I haven't run a single mission in the Hollows with any character in a LONG time. Heck prior to the current farming trend I had characters that didn't leave KR until level 14 and ran nothing but radio missions. Let's see added content... well in case you didn't realize it you CAN run the Midnighter's club arc as a 10 level... which usually gets you a couple of levels after facing all those Lost Bosses and the Rikti EB in both missions 2 and 3. Hit level 20, and if you have access to the midnighter's club, and Mercedes Shelton has three different arcs you can tackle. Between 20 an 30 OPTIONS have always been there. Don't want to run contact missions in Talos and IP .. head to Striga and pick up a few temp powers like the wedding band, Holy Shot Gun Shells, and Warwolf whistle. At 25 head to Croatoa and add in a Bow and Arrow and the Iron Blade. [then even if you drop all the way back to a 9 level during Time Travel you still have a lot of added attacks and defenses].
Oh your a badger? We'll thanks to Ouroborus and Time Travel the grind of doing countless missions from a contact TRYING to coax the badge out of them is no longer necessary ... OUTLEVEL the contact and go do the badge mission solo through the Pillar of Ice and Flame (BTW in addition to the badge this also awards a minimum of 2 merits upon completion).
Since absolutely NONE of what I just mentioned existed 3.5 years ago much less 5 I want to know what the same OLD grind is. I haven't even Added the new RWZ or Cimeroroa which gave players 35 and up new content and 2 new TFS.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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CoX is the only MMO I couldn't ever stick it out to reach 50. Everquest, DAoC, LoTRO, WoW all capped out toons.
CoH I peeter out at about 43. Thats pretty wierd.
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oddly CoH is the only game I've reached the level cap on - or even come close.
AC, AO, WoW, LotRO - never came close
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CoH is the only MMO to have kept my interest past Open Beta.
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They are more endgame/raid oriented; whereas CoH is 'character's journey' oriented.
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Yea dude, but the journey gets old.
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Then try altering the journey I can, I HAVE, taken a brand new character fresh out of Outbreak into the sewers below Atlas and emerged in King's Row a 10 level in less than an hour. Ran a few quick radios and got my Raptor Pack, making level 11 along the way, and then headed to Steel Canyon.
Now on a completely different character I logged on on a saturday morning at 11 level and got an invite to do POSI. Good team and within a few hours had the badge and was a level 16. Took a break for lunch and logged back on just to see and sell when a Synaspe TF was forming. I joined and once again in a few hours I was a level 21. After the TF broke I heaed to Talos and while I was at Wentworths finishing up a Sister Psyche TF was starting... You guessed I joined and in 2 hours and 30 minutes I was a level 26.
Someone explain to me what the same old GRIND is because I have ONLY been here 3 and a half year but before when you left Outbreak you had a couple of options.. the sewers to level 7 , contacts to level 5 or 6 in Atlas/Galaxy and some street fighting and then CONTACTs in Kings Row or the Holllows. Back then you RAN everywhere until you reached level 14 and got a permanent travel power oh and a LOT of players were still buying Training Origin Enhancements in the 30s because they couldn't afford anything else.
Personally aside from stopping by to say HI to Dave I haven't run a single mission in the Hollows with any character in a LONG time. Heck prior to the current farming trend I had characters that didn't leave KR until level 14 and ran nothing but radio missions. Let's see added content... well in case you didn't realize it you CAN run the Midnighter's club arc as a 10 level... which usually gets you a couple of levels after facing all those Lost Bosses and the Rikti EB in both missions 2 and 3. Hit level 20, and if you have access to the midnighter's club, and Mercedes Shelton has three different arcs you can tackle. Between 20 an 30 OPTIONS have always been there. Don't want to run contact missions in Talos and IP .. head to Striga and pick up a few temp powers like the wedding band, Holy Shot Gun Shells, and Warwolf whistle. At 25 head to Croatoa and add in a Bow and Arrow and the Iron Blade. [then even if you drop all the way back to a 9 level during Time Travel you still have a lot of added attacks and defenses].
Oh your a badger? We'll thanks to Ouroborus and Time Travel the grind of doing countless missions from a contact TRYING to coax the badge out of them is no longer necessary ... OUTLEVEL the contact and go do the badge mission solo through the Pillar of Ice and Flame (BTW in addition to the badge this also awards a minimum of 2 merits upon completion).
Since absolutely NONE of what I just mentioned existed 3.5 years ago much less 5 I want to know what the same OLD grind is. I haven't even Added the new RWZ or Cimeroroa which gave players 35 and up new content and 2 new TFS.
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I really find it kind of funny, that you joined each TF at the minimum level, therefore gaining much better xp than you would had you of been closer to the cap, but anywayz, There is no enjoyment of playing the low lvls for me. I have done 1-39 in less than a week with straight up newspaper mission. I know it can be "not that slow" but its still "not that fun" to me. You may enjoy your team fighting a group of +2's and doing pretty good, I on the other hand would rather USE my lvl 50, and the IOs that are there.. Sure your team can steamroll a grp pretty quick, my brute at 50 can fight 16 boses at a time. Being the lead brute for a team fighting 54 bosses, and i'm herding 16 of them at a time, makes me feel pretty powerful, not fighting 1 grp and running out of endurance/almost dieing.
And you say I could mix it up? Please explain to me the difference of going into a warehouse filled with npcs in striga on a TF, as opposed to running newspaper missions in Talos? And remember, I could care less about the story line...
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Do they really think that slowing down our play by taking away farming makes us want to stay? I really doubt people farming is gonna make the farm haterz /unsub, but do the devs think.. hmm, If they level slower, they will have to play longer? Boss farming was actually really fun for me. Extremly nerfed pvp, boring/slow leveling, and literally no end game content doesnt make me want to play.
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Comm Officers were broken, and that fix was expected. That said, you can still PL using MA. Just use normal LT's or Bosses that aren't custom. Full XP is still there. With a good team, you can still plow through them. Just because comm officers are gone isn't the end of massive xp gains.
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I didnt mean from the launch of the game. I mean from where we are right now. Removing all the boss/comm farms and what other types of farms were out there, to go back to regular leveling, do they think that makes us want to play longer? I guess its kind of like if you semi HAD an "I Win" button, and you enjoyed, but then it is removed and you go back same ole grind.
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The reason is that the "same old grind" is all there is. If you make three level 50 characters in three days of play, what's really the point? You're spending all your time on the same MA map killing comm officers. You don't learn how to play the game, you don't learn any of the game's back story, you aren't participating in any of the seasonal events, you aren't participating in the wider community.
Nothing special happens when you reach level 50 (the epic ATs are just more of the same). You're just done with that character and time to start another one. If you don't like playing the game, then why play the game? What good does having yet another level 50 on the mantel do?
Players who instafifty on the same tedious maps are either selling PLing services to other people, in one form or another, or have no long-term commitment to the game and will leave when the novelty wears off.
If the devs were dead-set against PLing, they would have shut it down long ago. They're not stopping anyone from PLing or farming. They're just stopping obscene exploits.
You can find "boss farms" just standing around in the RWZ (spawns with two and three Rikti bosses abound by the saucer), Peregrine Island (pairs of Nemesis and CoT bosses are easy to find), and there's an infinite number of bosses in FBZ. You are free to farm those bosses to your heart's content and no one will complain.
The reason? They provide a challenge. They're not exploits. They have been tested and provide reasonable returns for the risk involved. The MA boss farms that give tons of XP but no real challenge? Those are exploits.
People say they like the feeling of wading into a mob and taking out tons of enemies at once. When these mobs are totally gimped, what does that prove? It's like being proud of being able to beat up first-graders.
The MA is a fabulous new addition to the game. If people are so bored with the standard content, why do they choose to play the same MA mission over and over that provides no challenge, instead of playing the hundreds of new MA missions that they've never seen before?
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I didnt mean from the launch of the game. I mean from where we are right now. Removing all the boss/comm farms and what other types of farms were out there, to go back to regular leveling, do they think that makes us want to play longer? I guess its kind of like if you semi HAD an "I Win" button, and you enjoyed, but then it is removed and you go back same ole grind.
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The reason is that the "same old grind" is all there is. If you make three level 50 characters in three days of play, what's really the point? You're spending all your time on the same MA map killing comm officers. You don't learn how to play the game, you don't learn any of the game's back story, you aren't participating in any of the seasonal events, you aren't participating in the wider community.
Nothing special happens when you reach level 50 (the epic ATs are just more of the same). You're just done with that character and time to start another one. If you don't like playing the game, then why play the game? What good does having yet another level 50 on the mantel do?
Players who instafifty on the same tedious maps are either selling PLing services to other people, in one form or another, or have no long-term commitment to the game and will leave when the novelty wears off.
If the devs were dead-set against PLing, they would have shut it down long ago. They're not stopping anyone from PLing or farming. They're just stopping obscene exploits.
You can find "boss farms" just standing around in the RWZ (spawns with two and three Rikti bosses abound by the saucer), Peregrine Island (pairs of Nemesis and CoT bosses are easy to find), and there's an infinite number of bosses in FBZ. You are free to farm those bosses to your heart's content and no one will complain.
The reason? They provide a challenge. They're not exploits. They have been tested and provide reasonable returns for the risk involved. The MA boss farms that give tons of XP but no real challenge? Those are exploits.
People say they like the feeling of wading into a mob and taking out tons of enemies at once. When these mobs are totally gimped, what does that prove? It's like being proud of being able to beat up first-graders.
The MA is a fabulous new addition to the game. If people are so bored with the standard content, why do they choose to play the same MA mission over and over that provides no challenge, instead of playing the hundreds of new MA missions that they've never seen before?
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Why even make lvls if all you are gonna do is play content and give us nothing to do with the lvls. And I was there begging for PLs when Fire tanks farmed on dreck map, and I was there when fire/kins were first getting popular, and I farm with my brute. Some people ENJOY farming, making money to IO out characters to pvp with.
And its funny you say that you shouldnt feel powerful wading into a boss group or w/e. Its so great being on a team with other unIO'd brutes, who try to take even half a group of aggro, and drop pretty fast, when my brute could survive the limit. But I guess theres no "powerful" feeling about that huh? I did tons of 54 boss farms, and we did plenty with no deaths, but NEVER one without any risk at all.
One point that I haven't seen much discussion about is the collaborative aspect of MMOs. I run with a regular crew of 10 or so friends, all of whom I met while playing CoX. We have fun with lowbies or with our IOd out 50s. While the gameplay is obviously an important component, most of our fun comes from playing with each other. The variety of powers available and how we choose to slot them provides an interesting mechanic in our team building that still keeps us coming back for more.
IMO, PLing entirely misses the point.
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Well, the pace of "normal" levellling in CoH is a very slow grind, that is why I quit years ago. I came back to check out the mission editor and found that if I wanted to I could level really fast, or I could play cool story missions. I had a choice.
If I have to go back to slow grinding as my only levelling pace I'll take my money elsewhere and Cryptic loses a bit of revenue.
The most common comment I have seen in various forums when people talk about CoH is that the game is fun but the level grind is too steep. It would appear that the pace of levelling is one thing that has driven off a lot of customers.
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Yes, you hit it right on the head. i had a choice. And like you, i was a week or so away from getting grinded out of my sub. the MA almost saved me, but now i dont know
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Since absolutely NONE of what I just mentioned existed 3.5 years ago much less 5 I want to know what the same OLD grind is. I haven't even Added the new RWZ or Cimeroroa which gave players 35 and up new content and 2 new TFS.
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Based on the player commentary so far, anything beyond auto-50 at character creation is a "grind" that will make them cancel their accounts.
Most of the complaints are regarding the sub-20 game, so the majority of that post is irrelevant to most of the discussion. In fact, the POINT is to skip the tedious low level stuff that anyone who had been here a decent amount of time has seen so often that they can quote the contact dialog, and GET to the point where things start branching out.
I only see a few people here wanting "insta-50s", and those are veteran players who already know how to play a toon. The Paragon Westboro Church crowd here are flipping out that they might possibly, one day, group with a PLed noob, which will of course destroy the game FOREVER for them.
When you people start paying for everyone's subscriptions, THEN you can dictate how others play. That, or go build your own game like Emmert originally did, so he could dictate how everyone plays while taking their money.
A view of the subscription history of this game shows how well THAT worked out. Even EVE has double the subscribers as this game. That's shocking, and should be a cause for concern at NCsoft that something considered a niche game, with arguably less operating and development expense, is kicking their butt.
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Well, the pace of "normal" levellling in CoH is a very slow grind
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I am going to laugh at you now. It's nothing personal.
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Someone above hit the point, which one would hope NCsoft will see as well:
Rapid advancement (be it Farming, or Double XP or whatever) increases subscriptions, which increases revenue. ED and other experience-decreasing measures shrink subscriptions, and therefor revenues.
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Not really. I'd much rather play a game where I reach level 20 in two months of great fun than one wher I'm level 1000 by the end of the week but there's nothing to do.
What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes