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The market does not get 'better' because of Farming. It gets new items, yes, but it also gets millions more influence and infamy, which cause further inflation even though the supply of the pieces in demand are higher.
-Rachel-
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Getting new items is getting better. or is the shortage caused by the merit system something to look forward to?
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Getting new items WOULD be getting better! Except for the constant rise of inflation from Farmers making, literally, millions of in-game currency on a single run.
Printing more money so that you can afford higher priced items just makes the value of the money itself lessen. And that's what farmers are doing when they farm for hours on end, days on end, grabbing up purples and rares and millions of influence/infamy. They're printing more money into an already bloated economy that will, inevitably, fail. At some point you'll be required to farm for a week to buy the purple you want on the market.
Or you can turn to the merit system, which requires no farming, and purchase what you need as you level up.
Sure, you can't BUY Purples, but they're -meant- to be a rare commodity. Flooding the market with influence in order to put an extra 12 purple recipes on sale is not sound economic ideology.
Read This then think of the monetary scale entering the market compared to the amount of purples entering the market.
-Rachel-
What I really find amusing is that many anti-farming people constantly repost exact same reasons why farming is EBIL even though they are strawman arguments, or they have been countered.
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This was a bad idea the first time it was posted
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Not bad, just not high priority at the time.
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This was a bad idea the last time it was posted
This is still a bad idea.
It will continue to be a bad idea.
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No it's not. With the introduction of so many more missions, people, not just farmers but a large population of people, want to adjust difficulty refecting size of groups, for solo play and group play.
When I farmed, I generally farmed radio missions. I'd pick a radio mission, something other than arachnos and rikti, invite 5 random people, spawn the map using stealth on my fire/kin, and then wipe the map clean, and complete the mission. Repeat as needed.
According to some definitions which people make up about farming, that is not farming. Call it what you want.
Now, I can accomplish the same thing with MA Arcs, which I do. I either publish my farm arc, run it, then unpublish when I'm done, or start someone elses arc, and do the same thing I did with radio missions.
With ticket drops, it really doesn't matter who's arc you run, all you need to do is invite fillers, and you'll end up with 6 times as many tickets as you would get if you were solo. If it wasn't meant to be, that should have been changed, so filling/padding is not an exploit. What's your Arc ID rachel? I'll farm your mission!
With over 2bil in IO's on my fire/kin, I can farm any group simply because of the speed of my recharge to flashfire, and cinders and you can relax over this because the dev's said they won't make things more difficult because of IO's. The only issue I have is spawning inside maps against groups that can see stealth, which is why I avoid certain groups on inside maps.
There are practical reason why to have this second dimension of difficulty for both casual mission/story arc content play, and for farming, which have all been listed in this thread, and all you can do is repeatly scream DOOOOOM over and over. That's a pretty weak argument seeing as CoH is still here, and this would address a QoL issue, not an actual change.
With MA now implemented, if a second dimension isn't added, I personally will want to challange myself on missions with larger spawns instead of 3 minions, or 1 lt and 1 minion. I honestly don't like to bother people to ask for fill, which is why I do it as politely as possible, and if they fill, and ask if they can stay, I will never tell them no. If they can find a mentor, they are welcome to stay.
I know there aren't many farmers out there like that, but if this ever gets implemented, you won't have to worry about those particular farmers anymore either.
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Farming throws off the market
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No it doesn't. Study economics, and come back with a new argument.
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It exploits a very small amount of content with low risk/high reward
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Small amount of content? I wouldn't call running radio missions a small amount of content, and I certainly wouldn't call all the new MA missions a small amount of content. I intend of running other peoples arc, filling every mission.
I find it ironic that I will be farming anti-farmers missions.
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It annoys people who don't farm or dislike the idea of it when they get tells asking to farm or pad or bridge.
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This has been covered nicly by people who like the idea. A second dimension of dificulty would eliminate this for you.
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reason, the Devs have consistently altered the way things are handled to -avoid- farming.
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There is no way to avoid people from filling and spawning a map, and the only thing I can think of would having the spawn engine despawn spawns when someone goes out of range. Don't know how much effort that would take, but doubt it will be done, because it can lead to many other problems. IE. boss fights when you go back the entire mob will be present again if a team wipes, defend objects would be messed up, etc.
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Asking the Devs to put something in the game solely for the purpose of farming ...
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And you are wrong again. This is not solely for the purpose of farming. In regards to farming, it does help reduce the amount of casual player spam asking for fill and padding, but it also allows people who play story arcs for content to up the difficulty. Part of the reason I farm is because if I want to do story content, I have to deal with 3 minions or 1 lt and a minion. That's why I look for fillers even when I'm playing story content while I'm solo.
I would not be opposed to being able to set spawn sizes.
...in Test Mode.
After all, if I'm designing a mission, I'm constantly going into the AE, quitting out, breaking up my one-man Task Force, editing, trying again... makes it hard to test team-sized spawn rates. I want to be able to "ghost" through a mission and observe the spawn sizes and distributions.
[ QUOTE ]
This was a bad idea the first time it was posted.
This was a bad idea the last time it was posted.
This is still a bad idea.
It will continue to be a bad idea.
Farming throws off the market. It exploits a very small amount of content with low risk/high reward ratio. It annoys people who don't farm or dislike the idea of it when they get tells asking to farm or pad or bridge.
Farming is not suggested by the Devs. Farming is not a well liked practice and, for that reason, the Devs have consistently altered the way things are handled to -avoid- farming.
Asking the Devs to put something in the game solely for the purpose of farming when they have time and again shown that they don't condone the act is a waste of time. I'll be bookmarking this response to copy-paste to all further farming threads.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ] I understand your reasoning, but there is no reason to copy-paste it to other threads like this that pop up. The response isn't that good.
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I would not be opposed to being able to set spawn sizes.
...in Test Mode.
After all, if I'm designing a mission, I'm constantly going into the AE, quitting out, breaking up my one-man Task Force, editing, trying again... makes it hard to test team-sized spawn rates. I want to be able to "ghost" through a mission and observe the spawn sizes and distributions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could actually deal with something like that despite getting no rewards. Maybe allow drops, but the reward rate would be reduced by 100% for each difficulty level over one person. I could go for that.
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The addition of MA is great! It now allows the farming toon to create a map that can be ran over and over again, and not worrying if it gets completed or not.
Not only that, but it's not subject to normal TF rules in that you can't invite people once it's started, so it allows me to look for padding/filling at the start of every mission, which brings me to my suggestion . . .
With the addition of the new issue, it seems right to bring this up again, and makes even more sense than before to delve into the spawn system, and allow a second dimension of difficulty rating.
The current challange rating goes from 1 to 5, increasing the levels of the spawns. Add another bar that goes from 1 to 8 which basically will set the size of the spawns. 1 will be equal to a spawn size of a 1 man team, 2 will be equal to a spawn size of a 2 man team, etc . . . up to 8.
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Even though there have been numerous responses in this thread about how this change would affect non-farming dynamics of the game, your original post, quoted above, does not mention any of those options. Your original post was for the idea of doing this for farming only.
Had you worded your post to say the positive things that could come of this that didn't affect farming, such as difficulty for teams less than 4, the suggestion of testing MA arcs for spawn size and how they look and react in missions, etc., this topic would not have turned into an anti-farming topic. You probably would have received one or two responses from some that would have suggested the idea could be used for farming, but I think the overall feeling on the idea would have been more accepted.
Instead, there are more responses defending this idea for the sake of farming than there are for the other positives that could come from this idea. And seeing as this topic has been more pointed to farming is why the devs will pass it over and more than likely not have a second look, as I've read multiple threads where people have quoted the devs, in one form or another, having said that they do not agree with the players who prefer farming.
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I would not be opposed to being able to set spawn sizes.
...in Test Mode.
After all, if I'm designing a mission, I'm constantly going into the AE, quitting out, breaking up my one-man Task Force, editing, trying again... makes it hard to test team-sized spawn rates. I want to be able to "ghost" through a mission and observe the spawn sizes and distributions.
[/ QUOTE ]
I could actually deal with something like that despite getting no rewards. Maybe allow drops, but the reward rate would be reduced by 100% for each difficulty level over one person. I could go for that.
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It's test mode, there'd be no drops regardless.
Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
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I love the idea. Unfortunately it will never happen. I hope you are ready for the amount of negative responses your about to get too
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Hurray for persistance!
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Hurray for persistance!
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Persistence pays off! {scroll to the bottom}
{also, the thread where I suggested the same thing got purged, so I can't jump and claim credit. Anyone know if there's a way to dredge up ancient posts?}
The question is though, will this affect AE story-arc missions, or just the normal content?
I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati
Honestly? Great idea on multiple levels.
I was originally opposed to it. But after the whole Rikti Farms/Bubble Farms fiasco...
A Single player finds an exploit. He knows that if he spreads word of it, the Devs will shut it down. So instead of filling teams with noobs to farm the exploit, he instead solos it on an "8-man" team.
Noone else finds out about it. It doesn't hit broadcast, and the Exploit doesn't spill out into the general populace for the super-leveling BS we'd been seeing before.
Then the Devs datamine the people that use the feature almost exclusively and solo, play through their MA missions looking for exploits, and if they find them CLICK! Locked mission and nerfed character.
Awesome.
-Rachel-
Yep, the way they're doing it is a double-edged sword.
You can have 8-man spawns in your missions, but it gives the devs another datamining tool to use to find the exploiters.
If you're doing this in normal content or extremely difficult AE content they won't care, because that's why they did it, to give players a way to make stuff harder.
If you use it to exploit AE content they can find you and punish you for it easier.
It's called "giving them just enough rope to hang themselves with". And it's a stroke of genius disguised as giving in to the farmers.
I love it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Does that mean we just gave the exploiters a warning on just how far they can hang themselves? Or are we just pointing out that it's not all it's cracked up to be?
Personally I like the part where the Exploits don't get ridiculously well known, since people don't need to pad a team with 7 people who learn how to do it and each makes a new team with seven more on into an exploitation exponential increase.
Either way, it's nice to see that you and I, for once, agree on something.
-Rachel-
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Does that mean we just gave the exploiters a warning on just how far they can hang themselves? Or are we just pointing out that it's not all it's cracked up to be?
Personally I like the part where the Exploits don't get ridiculously well known, since people don't need to pad a team with 7 people who learn how to do it and each makes a new team with seven more on into an exploitation exponential increase.
Either way, it's nice to see that you and I, for once, agree on something.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually more excited that those of us who suggested this for legitimate challenge reasons are actually getting it.
Couldn't care less about anything else, as the devs already have adequate tools to shut down exploits. As shown by what they just recently did to a certain exploit.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly? Great idea on multiple levels.
I was originally opposed to it. But after the whole Rikti Farms/Bubble Farms fiasco...
A Single player finds an exploit. He knows that if he spreads word of it, the Devs will shut it down. So instead of filling teams with noobs to farm the exploit, he instead solos it on an "8-man" team.
Noone else finds out about it. It doesn't hit broadcast, and the Exploit doesn't spill out into the general populace for the super-leveling BS we'd been seeing before.
Then the Devs datamine the people that use the feature almost exclusively and solo, play through their MA missions looking for exploits, and if they find them CLICK! Locked mission and nerfed character.
Awesome.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ] Rachel, we are starting to agree on stuff too much. It's weird.
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[ QUOTE ]
Honestly? Great idea on multiple levels.
I was originally opposed to it. But after the whole Rikti Farms/Bubble Farms fiasco...
A Single player finds an exploit. He knows that if he spreads word of it, the Devs will shut it down. So instead of filling teams with noobs to farm the exploit, he instead solos it on an "8-man" team.
Noone else finds out about it. It doesn't hit broadcast, and the Exploit doesn't spill out into the general populace for the super-leveling BS we'd been seeing before.
Then the Devs datamine the people that use the feature almost exclusively and solo, play through their MA missions looking for exploits, and if they find them CLICK! Locked mission and nerfed character.
Awesome.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ] Rachel, we are starting to agree on stuff too much. It's weird.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still want to know what an exploit is, other than the obvious bubbles. Are Nemesis LT's exploits?
[ QUOTE ]
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Honestly? Great idea on multiple levels.
I was originally opposed to it. But after the whole Rikti Farms/Bubble Farms fiasco...
A Single player finds an exploit. He knows that if he spreads word of it, the Devs will shut it down. So instead of filling teams with noobs to farm the exploit, he instead solos it on an "8-man" team.
Noone else finds out about it. It doesn't hit broadcast, and the Exploit doesn't spill out into the general populace for the super-leveling BS we'd been seeing before.
Then the Devs datamine the people that use the feature almost exclusively and solo, play through their MA missions looking for exploits, and if they find them CLICK! Locked mission and nerfed character.
Awesome.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ] Rachel, we are starting to agree on stuff too much. It's weird.
[/ QUOTE ]
I still want to know what an exploit is, other than the obvious bubbles. Are Nemesis LT's exploits?
[/ QUOTE ] I think without dev comment what is and isn't an exploit is often very subjective. The bubbles are obvious. I also felt that the Comm officers were obvious too. But not everybody agrees on that point.
Don't start with the Obtuse thing again, Folonious.
Rikti Comm Officers, Hami Mito (Green), Cimeroran Surgeons, probably others... When exploits are found they're usually used by only a handful of people. We haven't seen a massive WAVE of exploits like this last batch since before ED.
Think of it as scales of 1 to 10. Is the risk you're taking a 1? Then the rewards shouldn't be more than 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
But if you've got a 0 risk and you're getting a reward of 10, then you're an idiot if you don't realize it's an exploit.
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly? Great idea on multiple levels.
I was originally opposed to it. But after the whole Rikti Farms/Bubble Farms fiasco...
A Single player finds an exploit. He knows that if he spreads word of it, the Devs will shut it down. So instead of filling teams with noobs to farm the exploit, he instead solos it on an "8-man" team.
Noone else finds out about it. It doesn't hit broadcast, and the Exploit doesn't spill out into the general populace for the super-leveling BS we'd been seeing before.
Then the Devs datamine the people that use the feature almost exclusively and solo, play through their MA missions looking for exploits, and if they find them CLICK! Locked mission and nerfed character.
Awesome.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ] Rachel, we are starting to agree on stuff too much. It's weird.
[/ QUOTE ]
Umm... Ummm.... >.>
Monkeys wearing human clothing is -not- funny!
-Rachel-
[ QUOTE ]
Don't start with the Obtuse thing again, Folonious.
Rikti Comm Officers, Hami Mito (Green), Cimeroran Surgeons, probably others... When exploits are found they're usually used by only a handful of people. We haven't seen a massive WAVE of exploits like this last batch since before ED.
Think of it as scales of 1 to 10. Is the risk you're taking a 1? Then the rewards shouldn't be more than 2 or 3. Maybe 4.
But if you've got a 0 risk and you're getting a reward of 10, then you're an idiot if you don't realize it's an exploit.
-Rachel-
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not being obtuse, I'm giving you the mitos and maybe even the comm officers as obvious. What I'm talking about are the not so obvious such as Nemesis LT's or civilians who have mass hypnosis and tranq darts used as allies. There's other small things like that that can be added. At least a dozen.
On a side note, you can also have Will of the Earth as a rescue ally. It doesn't do anything, but it's funny to watch a crystal follow you around.
Edit: never saw the surgeons, but I can imagine how it worked.
What was this about Nemesis LTs? I wouldn't have bothered with them regardless of the massive rewards, their vegeance stacked annoys me.
LOL @ naysayers.
This is why I rarely post any ideas here.
A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
The market does not get 'better' because of Farming. It gets new items, yes, but it also gets millions more influence and infamy, which cause further inflation even though the supply of the pieces in demand are higher.
-Rachel-