Feedback: the backlash that inevitably occurs
By
Barata,
Posted on: 2009-04-13 07:01 in Mission Architect
If you're not worried about the stars, then just put the person on ignore and move on. Some people are just jerks, you can't do anything about that.
If you are worried about the stars, I'd report it. I don't think the powers that be are too keen on "I'm mad so I'm 1 starring your arc!" behavior.
Dec out.
I've gotten the feedback replay of doom myself in the real world.
More a matter of confusion. Silly Domino's website keeps trying to give me a free phone, it's annoying me. So I put a comment in the feedback box one time. Seems that feedback only goes to the store. So the store manager was like 'wtf, are our drivers trying to peddle phones?' and called me pretty confused. I felt bad, but oh well I got over it and presumably so did the store manager once they realized what happened.
Really though, it's easy to ignore. My response to someone arguing with me on it would be ~ "That's cool, you need to convey that better with the tools that are available." Of course, my initial assumption from reading is that it's someone perhaps sharing their paradigm [albiet defensively], but that's a great opportunity for colloboration to result in fixing the problem you found within their vision.
Really though, just ignore it, it's just text. Worst case you pop a spammer out of your global ignore list 
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One thing, I should note, I dont' really put what I voted in my comment. Sure, the author can find out if their arc doesn't have that much traffic, but frankly, I doubt many will care that heavily.
Let's Dance!
It's sad, and I feel your pain. Still, if someone gives me constructive insight on an arc of mine and wants to discuss it, I'd like to be able to. Although I suppose anonymous feedback could work, since you can choose to put your email address or global in the feedback itself.
On the other hand, maybe feedbacks include your global to deter people from sending anonymous malicious feedback as a form of greifing.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
If the internet has taught me anything, it's that anonymity is more likely to cause some people to act like jerks than the other way around.
Dec out.
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If the internet has taught me anything, it's that anonymity is more likely to cause some people to act like jerks than the other way around.
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Agreed.
important lessons learned from 4chan.
I think it would be good if the feedback was anonymous, but a pseudonym system was set up so that you could still respond to the person leaving the comment so that if you get a "Too hard!" comment, you can ask what about it was too hard.
I'm also concerned that fear of retaliation may be keeping people from leaving constructive feedback. I've gotten a couple 2 stars on my arc, and wish I knew what the people didn't like about it, but they didn't leave any comments. Now maybe they were just retaliating for things I'd said about their arcs....but the 2 stars leads me to believe that it wasn't just vengeance. But if i'm giving under 4 stars now, I often won't leave feedback for fear of retaliation.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
Avatar by Wassy full reference here
This is funny and sad at the same time. Some people did point this kind of thing out during test and the usual suspects said it would not happen. Well...
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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This is funny and sad at the same time. Some people did point this kind of thing out during test and the usual suspects said it would not happen. Well...
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Strange, I remember it being said that it wouldn't be a big deal. *shrug*
Let's Dance!
Good criticism is hard to give. Maybe this is a case of it?
I always leave feedback, and I try to be objective but truthful. If a guy can't spell or put a sentence together, I say so. If the story makes no sense, I say so. If the bad guys are too hard, I say so. Same goes for things I liked: map selection, dialogue, use of the costume designer, descriptive text, gameplay elements, etc.
I would rather have bad feedback than no feedback. No feedback tells you nothing.
As far as getting into arguments goes, I think pride of authorship will often result in hurt feelings. That's the price of publishing, baby, and if you can't take the heat stay away from 3K Kelvin.
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If the internet has taught me anything, it's that anonymity is more likely to cause some people to act like jerks than the other way around.
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I agree. I was playing last night and was in the consignment house in Talos. My main system had a hardware crash, so I'm forced to use my laptop, which takes FOREVER to zone. I dreaded going to my SG to make IOs because it would take me five minutes just to zone. So I casually ask in the cosignment house "would it be possible for someone who is able to cast an enhancement workstation?"
The reply from one guy was "I can, but I won't."
That served no purpose other than to just be a jerk. I'm always polite and respectful, regardless of anonymity, so I'm surprised when I see people who decide "I'm gonna be a jerk because I could." The whole concept is foreign to me.
I any case, some people do use their anonymity to be jerks. Thankfully, some people still act as respectful and polite as they do when face-to-face.
Arc ID#30821, A Clean Break
The only problem with defeating the Tsoo is that an hour later, you want to defeat them again!
"Life is just better boosted!" -- LadyMage
"I'm a big believer in Personal Force Field on a blaster. ... It's your happy place." -- Fulmens
Some said that too. I think it is too early to say its a large problem, but problem it is none the less.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Some said that too. I think it is too early to say its a large problem, but problem it is none the less.
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I will admit my opinion of the magnitude of the problem is changing. I was originally in the camp that thought it wouldn't be a big deal, but my opinion of my fellow players' maturity has unfortunately dropped since i14 landed.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
off topic: I understand your ire, KD, but CoH is still way better than WoW. If you want to get frustrated at your fellow players, go there for a week or so and you'll be begging for some CoH civility.
I'd would really like to see a flag option to leave feedback as anonymous if you want to, but still let you elect to attach your name. That way if you want the possibility to engage in conversation with the designer (to help refine the arc) you can, or if you suspect its going to turn out badly you can avoid it.
Want better looking NPCs Contacts? Check out this NPC Contact/Trainer/Etc Revision Thread and Index
-
Remember: Guns don't kill people; Meerkats kill people.
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And what happens? He starts a real massive argument with me trying to justify what he made.
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He did not start the argument, you did. You provided feedback. He responded. All you had to do to end it was respond to his response like this... "OK." Then go on with your life. You do not need to defend your feedback and they do not need to heed it.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I'll state this upfront.
I HATE THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM. 
Last night, I played an arc that was frankly terrible. The author did attempt to try and make something proper, so I left some feedback.
And what happens? He starts a real massive argument with me trying to justify what he made.
And after the argument, my own published story arc gets a couple of 1 star ratings right away.
Right now, I'm still sort of mad. The 1 stars, I don't care. The argument on the other hand, it's like this really. You go to a store, get poor service, then you fill up a customer service feedback form and give it to the store. Then 1 day later, a service manager from the store calls you to give you a verbal tongue lashing. This is just not right!
The feedback system just has to change. Make the feedback anonymous, please.
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[u]Consider this:[u]
Scenario 1: We all have to submit comments to justify our ratings.
Expected Outcome: Everyone chickens out of giving bad ratings, because they don't want their own missions to get ganked and/or your mailbox gets filled with hate spam and/or you get into a bunch of pointless arguments with ignorant players.
Scenario 2: You can submit comments anonymously.
Expected Outcome: There is now no check & balance in place to discourage players from being [censored]-bags, and so they go on a mission ganking spree with impudence every time a girl they like rejects them.
Conclusion: People are jerks...and we can't ever have nice things, because somebody ruins it.
Solution: Only the smart & talented people can give feedback. The rest of you GTFO my interwebs.
Why do I do do do things I do
Nobody was ever there for me to talk to
Once I was youngster, pure and true
Now I'm running with a sick, sick crew.
i agree with what he is saying about no feedback, i made a really fun arc that can be solo'd with more challenge, gotten 27 ratings on it but less than 8 feedback reports, ive improved it based on the feedeback i have gotten.
i also usually dont reply to feedback, i just take it and use it to try to improve the arc to make everyone happy.
if anyone wants to run my arcs, i have a lvl 26-30 arc (id 20101) and my more challenging arc (id 18578)
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Good criticism is hard to give. Maybe this is a case of it?
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And the space limitation for the comments don't allow you to give more than an abbreviated précis of your full critique of the arc; particularly with five-mission arcs, the space isn't big enough to more than gloss over highlights, much less attempt to give detailed constructive criticism.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
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off topic: I understand your ire, KD, but CoH is still way better than WoW. If you want to get frustrated at your fellow players, go there for a week or so and you'll be begging for some CoH civility.
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Continued OT: I'm actually not mad at anyone - what I realized though is that a good proportion of people playing the game are literally immature, i.e. young teens. Once I realized that and remembered what junior high was like, I realized my assumptions about how people would use this system were all wrong. It's a different world at that age.
And for a while things were cold,
They were scared down in their holes
The forest that once was green
Was colored black by those killing machines
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I'd would really like to see a flag option to leave feedback as anonymous if you want to, but still let you elect to attach your name. That way if you want the possibility to engage in conversation with the designer (to help refine the arc) you can, or if you suspect its going to turn out badly you can avoid it.
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I'd like to point out that since the global handle of the publisher is part of the information provided about a published arc, if the submit comment feedback were made annonymous, it would still be quite possible to leave feedback that your global was attached to. Simply send the author a regular global tell instead of using the submit comment mechanism. For this reason I am very much in favor of the built in feedback mechanism becoming annonymous. If it was made so, players would have the option of whether they wanted their feedback to be annonymous or not. More options in this case is the better path imo, because there are reasons and situations where both are desirable.
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Solution: Only the smart & talented people can give feedback. The rest of you GTFO my interwebs.
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I like this one.
When can we expect implementation? 
Dec out.
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Solution: Only the smart & talented people can give feedback. The rest of you GTFO my interwebs.
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I like this one.
When can we expect implementation?
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Soon
And Whataguy, your WoW reference doesn't fit. No one here cares what WoW's community is like. Should people ignore what they perceive to be the erosion of civility in this game just because WoW is worse? Should your kids be allowed to be unruly because they're not nearly as bad as Samantha's inmates-in-waiting? Your dog should be allowed to pee all over the house because "at least he's not like Fred's poopmachine".
I've seen this in literally every MMO on the market. Someone complains about the community and someone else pipes up, "At least it's not like WoW's!!!". Seriously, give it a rest. It's old and tired, even if it does have somewhat of a ring of truth to it. Much of the same behavior people complain about in WoW exists here. Think I'm wrong? How many people avoid pickup groups here? Same in WoW (more people for obvious reasons). People beg for PLs there just like they do here (it's just that each CoH server doesn't have seemingly half the population of Uzbekistan on it).
Seriously, turn the page. Find a new poem to recite.
Honestly, I've rated well over 130 arcs since Friday and I haven't gotten any backlash from it. The only ones I've really hated have been some arcs that were victims of the system's limitations, I learned later (that being, every custom group is level 1-54). I even spent a few hours helping someone with their farming arc that was originally made for one powerset (fiery aura tanker, brute, or scrapper). I basically explain what I liked and didn't like, and make suggestions on improving it. I'd agree that if an argument was brewing, I'd just drop it. These things are extremely personal to some folks, after all.
@Remianen / @Remianen Too
Sig by RPVisions
I'll state this upfront.
I HATE THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM.
Last night, I played an arc that was frankly terrible. The author did attempt to try and make something proper, so I left some feedback.
And what happens? He starts a real massive argument with me trying to justify what he made.
And after the argument, my own published story arc gets a couple of 1 star ratings right away.
Right now, I'm still sort of mad. The 1 stars, I don't care. The argument on the other hand, it's like this really. You go to a store, get poor service, then you fill up a customer service feedback form and give it to the store. Then 1 day later, a service manager from the store calls you to give you a verbal tongue lashing. This is just not right!
The feedback system just has to change. Make the feedback anonymous, please.