PFF, elude or SR , which is overpowered the most?
By
300_below,
Posted on: 2009-03-10 13:35 in Everything about PvP
PFF, SR, Elude.
Doesn't really make sense, since elude is part of SR. I'll take elude to mean "any defense tier 9". In that case...
PFF -> tier 9 -> SR
PFF is just laughably bad. Tier 9 is basically the same thing...pretty much invincibility. But at least it's not perma. SR without elude is very strong, but not insane. It CAN actually be hit.
Sharks.
IMO in terms of defense yes...pff wins by a long shot...but the question you have to ask yourself is..which is more of a threat?
Someone who has insainly high def and CAN NOT attack or someone with still pretty high def and CAN still attack
I choose the latter
^^ FYI this is the guy I started my other thread about. Promised him all my inf if PFF doesn't get nerfed in I14.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
and if it does get nerfed? 
Nothing, unfortunately. He claims that it won't be nerfed because PFF is balanced.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Nothing, unfortunately. He claims that it won't be nerfed because PFF is balanced.
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Bahahahahahaahahahahahaha....Wait...what? Hold on a sec...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Yeah okay bud.
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Nothing, unfortunately. He claims that it won't be nerfed [u] becuase PFF is balanced[u]
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My head hurts....
Zero contact on both sides of the fence seems pretty balanced to me.
I can't hit you, you can't hit me...I fail to see the inherent imbalance. Frustration? Sure. Nuisance? Absolutely. Noobism? Arguably.
Imbalanced? Get a dictionary.
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Zero contact on both sides of the fence seems pretty balanced to me.
I can't hit you, you can't hit me...I fail to see the inherent imbalance. Frustration? Sure. Nuisance? Absolutely. Noobism? Arguably.
Imbalanced? Get a dictionary.
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It'd be balanced if every AT had access to it.
Just like if only blasters had access to stamina and no one else did. That'd be unbalanced.
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Zero contact on both sides of the fence seems pretty balanced to me.
I can't hit you, you can't hit me...I fail to see the inherent imbalance. Frustration? Sure. Nuisance? Absolutely. Noobism? Arguably.
Imbalanced? Get a dictionary.
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Except you can hit me through my elusivity and I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of killing you through PFF unless I get lucky and land a -end/-recovery power in hopes of dropping your toggles. When my health starts to drop, I have to phase, hibernate, or hit my tier 9. Phase/hibernate last 30 seconds and have a 120 second suppression timer. Tier 9's last 3 minutes and have a crash. PFF has neither of those and can be used as often as you want with zero consequences.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Zero contact on both sides of the fence seems pretty balanced to me.
I can't hit you, you can't hit me...I fail to see the inherent imbalance. Frustration? Sure. Nuisance? Absolutely. Noobism? Arguably.
Imbalanced? Get a dictionary.
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Except you can hit me through my elusivity and I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of killing you through PFF unless I get lucky and land a -end/-recovery power in hopes of dropping your toggles. When my health starts to drop, I have to phase, hibernate, or hit my tier 9. Phase/hibernate last 30 seconds and have a 120 second suppression timer. Tier 9's last 3 minutes and have a crash. PFF has neither of those and can be used as often as you want with zero consequences.
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yeah I forgot to mention, all what mac said basically.
PFF is a better get out of jail free card than phase shift.
Well like I said in terms of def. yes...pff takes the win...but as far as threat level goes elude is by far higher for the simple fact you can still attack with it on...not to mention you nerf pff, the squishy has no real way of protecting themselves...atleast if you take elude or SR away, you're still having to chip away at hp that of a scrap or widow which is considerably higher than that of any squishy...
First off, elude is sr. They are the same thing. Second, the key diffrences. Elude (or any tier nine defense set) has a very long recharge and comes with an end crash. Sure if you are a zoner the cheap ones don't come out unless the tier 9 is up. Cheesy people will be cheesy, nothing can be done about it. The only real way around this is arena pvp. If you play in zones you will get poeple who want the simplest win/hardest defeat.
Now for pff. Its basically a phase power. No you can not attack but that isn't whats out of balance with other powers. Where as phase and hibernate are set to longer recharges then pff they also get a forced cool down with the no phase period.
If you think a reusable phase like power with a 10 second ish recharge and no no phase period is not op, you are simply fooling yourself.
It was brought up when this issue hit beta that pff was to good and needed something done. In particular combined with aid self it makes a target unkillable unless the player running it goes full retard.
And while most of knew a change was coming I doubt you will get any real details until open beta hits because of the nda.
Oh and one last thing Gravix, in case you forgot, the toon name you pay the 50 million influence to is DPS Machine.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
not to mention when you have an organized spike team that stays in pfff untill their target is in range and then they all spike their target the instant any of them take any damage poof up comes the bubble while they firgure out who was targeting them and the process starts all over.
Neither are overpowered in PvE. In PvP Elude is much better than PFF.
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Doesn't really make sense, since elude is part of SR
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Well Night widow have elude too I don't know if anyone said that yet but that might what the OP mean by Elude.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Doesn't really make sense, since elude is part of SR
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Well Night widow have elude too I don't know if anyone said that yet but that might what the OP mean by Elude.
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Thats what i did mean...sorry for the confusion all...
The reason why I think pff does not have a forced cool down and phase and hibernate do, is because whenever you phase or hibernate...it's a GUARANTEED "I cannot be hurt power" as with pff you can still be hurt and in some instances against certain builds pff can be cut trhough like a hot knife through butter i.e. rad and most well built MM's...and if anyone pops 2 to 3 yellows(which anyone can easily do)...pff is pretty much screwed....so thats why imo pff doesn't share forced cool down and recharges fast.
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pff can be cut trhough like a hot knife through butter i.e. rad and most well built MM's...and if anyone pops 2 to 3 yellows(which anyone can easily do)...pff is pretty much screwed....so thats why imo pff doesn't share forced cool down and recharges fast.
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What a load of bull. Rad debuffs defense, not elusivity, and it's the elusivity that makes PFF broken. Even with rad debuffs on you'll still be looking at a very low chance to hit, after which you still have PFF's built-in resistances to chew through. Popping yellows is subject to DR, which hits most damage-based ATs pretty hard. In short, there's no way to reliably hit through PFF aside from builds that are specifically designed to do it, and even for those builds "reliably" might mean 30-40%.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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The reason why I think pff does not have a forced cool down and phase and hibernate do, is because whenever you phase or hibernate...it's a GUARANTEED "I cannot be hurt power" as with pff you can still be hurt and in some instances against certain builds pff can be cut trhough like a hot knife through butter i.e. rad and most well built MM's...and if anyone pops 2 to 3 yellows(which anyone can easily do)...pff is pretty much screwed....so thats why imo pff doesn't share forced cool down and recharges fast.
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Unfortunately that is not true in the I13 world.
Yellows: You can pop as many as you like, but DR will hit you long before you start getting into the range of hitting through PFF.
Debuffs: I don't know the reasoning behind this one, most likely just because of the amount of Defense and Elusitivity gives you, but even debuffed PFF will not be reliably hit through. I have been debuffed by multiple Rads on my Dominator and can still laugh off their 5-10% chance to hit me.
I'm afraid that my opinion is PFF is the most overpowered one. I wish it wasn't that way because I love having powers that let me watch PvP instead of actually PvPing (ala Pre-Nerfs Phase, Pre-I13 Granite Armor, PFF, etc.).
I still get creamed when my seemingly high defense Night Widow running Elude goes into RV (However he is only 44 at the moment but that shouldn't matter). I don't have an SR, but I would probably put it right in the middle since it can maintain high defense with IOs, even if it isn't Elude levels, for an indefinite period of time.
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Doesn't really make sense, since elude is part of SR
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Well Night widow have elude too I don't know if anyone said that yet but that might what the OP mean by Elude.
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Thats what i did mean...sorry for the confusion all...
The reason why I think pff does not have a forced cool down and phase and hibernate do, is because whenever you phase or hibernate...it's a GUARANTEED "I cannot be hurt power" as with pff you can still be hurt and in some instances against certain builds pff can be cut trhough like a hot knife through butter i.e. rad and most well built MM's...and if anyone pops 2 to 3 yellows(which anyone can easily do)...pff is pretty much screwed....so thats why imo pff doesn't share forced cool down and recharges fast.
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You can pop a tray of yellows + aim + bu + fa + tactics + kismet + forge + fort and guess what, you will still have only about +30 tohit. DR guarantees that. I have had many rads tell me they can own me while I have pff up only to be proved wrong time and time again. When they got rid of unresistable debuffs and added dr it really makes pff way better than it was. The only real way to die in pff is hit it really really late and have a really really bad streak catch up to you.
Your lack of comprehension of game mechanics is appalling so all that probably won't help you much. But trust all the people saying pff is way op, because it is.
Duel me.
I will work on my sig pic more when I have time.
All i know is that since I13 came out it seems everyone has been hitting through the PFF alot easier. Is it just me?...Could be...However I think we all got a little off topic here...I'm not denying PFF's superior protection. All I'm saying is that in terms of PVP...Anyone who pops pff isn't going to dominate the battle field...In terms of "PVP" Elude is by far a greater PVP threat,
In my opinion It would be SR followed by elude and then PFF...
Just wanted to see what everyone's take was on it in terms of PVP