Carrion Creepers: The Inside Scoop

This is the updated version of my guide. It takes into account the changes that Issue 14 and Issue 15 bring to Carrion Creepers. Also, since the Carrion Creeper pets are the same for Dominators and Controllers this guide is accurate for both archetypes. The old i13 and i14 guides are preserved in this thread for interests sake.

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This guide attempts to explain just about everything about the complicated series of pets and psuedopets that make up one of the most unique (and convoluted) powers in the game. It also explains some quirks with the power that have a large impact on the suggested slotting.

CC's mechanics can be a bit overwhelming, so if you just want the end result read the yellow bit about halfway down. If you have questions post them here and I'll do my best to answer them.



Carrion Creeper Patch, the original summon
The power that the player uses (called Carrion Creepers) summons an entity called Carrion Creeper Patch. This Patch has several powers of it's own. It is also mobile and will follow you around (though the 'bramble' graphic doesn't move). The Patch is invisible, and has a snare power called Bramble, a second pet summon called Carrion Creepers (we'll call it Carrion Creepers2 or just CC2), and a power called Vines. Interesting side-note: Even though the Carrion Patch is invisible, it still makes ripples in water. So you can summon it and go for a swim, you'll 'see' the pet following you around.

Bramble
The Bramble power is an autohit AoE snare power. It is always on, and every 0.2s it will apply -fly, -runspeed, -maxrunspeed, and -jumpheight over a 20ft area.

Carrion Creepers 2
CC2 summons Carrion Creeper Patch2 every ten seconds, at every enemy corpse in range. CCP2 is a short lived pet whose only purpose is to attack with an AoE version of Entangle and then self-destruct silently. This AoE Entangle applies a Mag4 Immob to an 8ft area, deals a decent amount of Lethal and Smashing damage, and prevents flight and knockback on the targets. Creeper Entangle has a max target cap of 5 and a base accuracy of 1.0.

Vines
The Vines power has a 50% chance of summoning a Carrion Vine every ten seconds for every living enemy (PC or NPC) in range. These are the vines we know and love and they are the most visible part of the power. Each Vine lasts for 15s and has a ranged Vine Thorns attack and a melee Vine Smash attack. Both the attacks applie a small recharge slow, a movement snare, and a -fly effect. The melee Vine Smash also has a guaranteed knockdown. Both attacks have an accuracy of 1.0.





Slotting Suggestions:
As before i14, Recharge is the most important aspect and if you can only spare three slots, three Recharge SOs is the absolute minimum you should accept in this power. Ideally, you have 6 slots in Creepers. Within those 6 slots you have a lot of freedom, and that means there are a lot of good ways to slot it.

My suggested slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
and as many damage procs as you can cram in. It no longer matters what sets you choose to use, so go for the cheapest one.





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STOP READING HERE IF YOU ARE EASILY CONFUSED!
The information after this note is all inaccurate now, and is only here for historical reference.




The following is the original i13 version of my guide. It is NOT up to date, and is preserved her in case anyone is interested about the original behavior of Carrion Creepers.


This is a version of my standard Carrion Creepers post. It explains just about everything about the complicated series of pets and psuedopets that make up one of the most unique (and convoluted) powers in the game. It also explains some quirks with the power that have a large impact on the suggested slotting.

CC's mechanics can be a bit overwhelming, so if you just want the end result read the yellow bit about halfway down. If you have questions post them here and I'll do my best to answer them.



The Carrion Creepers power summons an entity called Carrion Creeper Patch. This Patch has several powers of it's own. It is also mobile and will follow you around (though the 'bramble' graphic doesn't move). The Patch is invisible, and has a snare power called Bramble, a second pet summon called Carrion Creepers (we'll call it Carrion Creepers(2) or just CC2), and a power called Vines. Interesting side-note: Even though the Carrion Patch is invisible, it still makes ripples in water. So you can summon it and go for a swim, you'll 'see' the pet following you around.

The Bramble power is an autohit AoE snare power. It is always on, and every 0.2s it will apply -fly, -runspeed, -maxrunspeed, and -jumpheight over a 20ft area.

CC2 summons Carrion Creeper Patch(2) whenever it detects a corpse. CCP2 is a short lived pet whose only purpose is to attack with a version of Roots (an AoE Immbilize) and then self-destruct silently.

The Vines power has a 50% chance of summoning a Carrion Vine every ten seconds for every living or dead NPC in range. Supposedly it will summon Vines on dead PCs as well, but I haven't tested that. These are the vines we know and love and they are the most visible part of the power. Each Vine lasts for 15s and has a ranged Vine Thorns attack and a melee Vine Smash attack.



Now the problem with enhancers is that the Carrion Creeper Patch's powers aren't set up properly. In order for the enhancers to transfer down to the Vines and CCP2 pets, their summon power must be set to allow those enhancers.

Looking through CoD you can see that the initial summon power takes enhancers, and the Vine Smash and Vine Thorns powers are set up to take enhancers, but that the middle pet's powers (aka the first CCP) CC2 and Vines don't take any enhancements. The Brambles power does take slow enhancers so those types can transfer down at least partially.


End Result:
Damage, Knockback, Accuracy, and Immobilize enhancers have no effect. Recharge, Endredux, Range, and Slow all work. Slow Procs will also work, but they will only check every 10 seconds, rather than every time the Vines attack.

Great guide there... I've loved the power from the moment I had it, but have always had trouble explaining exactly what it did. Now, I'll just direct inquiring minds here

Thanks for this. Would have been nice to know before I bought those damage IOs...

thank you Weatherby_Goode for this info. all this time was curious why no help info would display the enhanced effects even though the power accepted the enhancements. after reading your guide i recall two other powers that work similar to this. caltrops from ninjitsu set being one. not sure if this goes for the others sets caltrops is in. the other being smoke bomb from the VEAT set. both of those powers accept the acc enhancement. but, in the power help info display there is no mention of acc being affected.

Today's patch on test supposedly fixed this issue, so I'm crossing my fingers.

Preliminary testing shows that CC is working properly now. Enhancements are being passed down the entire chain, and this seems to include procs as well.

I don't have a recommended slotting yet, as I'm still testing how good certain procs are. 95% recharge is definitely a must, along with ~40% Acc. Damage makes a big difference too, but the Impeded Swiftness proc appears to be firing very often so it might be worth slotting.

I'm still checking Posi, Crap of the Hunter, and Explosive Strike procs but I don't expect them to be nearly as good as Impeded Swiftness.

UPDATED FOR I14

This is the updated version of my guide. It takes into account the changes that Issue 14 brings to Carrion Creepers. Also, since the Carrion Creeper pets are the same for Dominators and Controllers this guide is accurate for both achetypes.


This guide attempts to explain just about everything about the complicated series of pets and psuedopets that make up one of the most unique (and convoluted) powers in the game. It also explains some quirks with the power that have a large impact on the suggested slotting.

CC's mechanics can be a bit overwhelming, so if you just want the end result read the yellow bit about halfway down. If you have questions post them here and I'll do my best to answer them.



Carrion Creeper Patch, the original summon
The power that the player uses (called Carrion Creepers) summons an entity called Carrion Creeper Patch. This Patch has several powers of it's own. It is also mobile and will follow you around (though the 'bramble' graphic doesn't move). The Patch is invisible, and has a snare power called Bramble, a second pet summon called Carrion Creepers (we'll call it Carrion Creepers2 or just CC2), and a power called Vines. Interesting side-note: Even though the Carrion Patch is invisible, it still makes ripples in water. So you can summon it and go for a swim, you'll 'see' the pet following you around.

Bramble
The Bramble power is an autohit AoE snare power. It is always on, and every 0.2s it will apply -fly, -runspeed, -maxrunspeed, and -jumpheight over a 20ft area.

Carrion Creepers 2
CC2 summons Carrion Creeper Patch2 every ten seconds, at every enemy corpse in range. CCP2 is a short lived pet whose only purpose is to attack with an AoE version of Entangle and then self-destruct silently. This AoE Entangle applies a Mag4 Immob to an 8ft area, deals a decent amount of Lethal and Smashing damage, and prevents flight and knockback on the targets. Creeper Entangle has a max target cap of 5 and a base accuracy of 1.0.

Vines
The Vines power has a 50% chance of summoning a Carrion Vine every ten seconds for every living enemy (PC or NPC) in range. These are the vines we know and love and they are the most visible part of the power. Each Vine lasts for 15s and has a ranged Vine Thorns attack and a melee Vine Smash attack. Both the attacks applie a small recharge slow, a movement snare, and a -fly effect. The melee Vine Smash also has a guaranteed knockdown. Both attacks have an accuracy of 1.0.



Procs in Carrion Creepers
Now that i14 has fixed the enhancement bug, procs will also work properly in Carrion Creepers. Like the rest of the power, though, the issue of procs is fairly complicated. The main thing to remember is that procs can only fire if the power being used is set to allow the type of enhancement set that the proc belongs to.

The following is a list of all the procs that can be slotted into CC and how they interact with it. (Note, some of this is not thouroughly tested. If you can provide me with corrections, please do.

Positron's Blast and Ragnorok: AoE Damage set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire whenever Creeper Entangle fires. Ragnorok is a poor choice since the very effect that triggers the proc prevents the Knockdown from occuring. Positron is an ok choice, with a good damage type and decent proc chances in this power.

Trap of the Hunter, Debilative Action, and Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire whenever Creeper Entangle fires. Trap of the Hunter and Gravitational Anchor are decent, though the extra control in Gravi Anchor is probably wasted. Debilative action's measly 2% chance to stun should be avoided in any power.

Impeded Swiftness and Pacing of the Turtle: Slow set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire every ten seconds against every target within the Bramble power's radius. They will also have a chance to fire every time a vine uses either it's Vine Smash or Vine Thorns attacks. If you have room for one proc, Impeded Swiftness (the Damage proc) is the one to use. Pacing of the Turtle's Chance for Recharge Slow is mostly wasted CC, since there is so much -Recharge already.

Force Feedback and Explosive Strike
These procs will have a chance to fire every time the Vines use their Vine Smash attack. Force Feeback is worthless here since pets ignore Recharge buffs, and Explosive Strike has limited proc opportunities when compared to Trap of the Hunter, Positron's Blast, or Impeded Swiftness.


Slotting Suggestions:
As before i14, Recharge is the most important aspect and if you can only spare three slots, three Recharge SOs is the absolute minimum you should accept in this power. Ideally, you have 6 slots in Creepers. Within those 6 slots you have a lot of freedom, and that means there are a lot of good ways to slot it.

Note: Currently Targeted AoE sets (like Positron's Blast) only transfer their enhancement to the Creeper Entangle power. Slotting these into the power will NOT affect the Vines, where most of the damage comes from. If Castle is reading this, please consider removing Targeted AoE sets from the allowed list and adding Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pets to the list. This would allow the enhancement to transfer down to all sub-pets of the Creepers.

Likewise, slotting Knockback sets will only enhance damage and accuracy in the Vine Smash power. Slotting Slow sets will only affect the damage and accuracy of Vine Smash and Vine Thorns. Slotting Immbo sets will only affect the accuracy of the Creeper Entangle.

TOs, DOs, SOs, Hammis, and Vanilla IOs will carry down to all the subpets. For this reason I recommend using these rather than sets.


My ideal slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing Damage

and either
Positron's Blast: Chance for Energy Damage
or
Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal Damage
if you have room.

Realistically, you will only have room for something like this:

(At Level 50)
3 level 40-50 Recharge Vanilla IOs
2 Acc/Dam Hammis
Impeded Swiftness: %Smashing.

[ QUOTE ]
My suggested slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
Debilative Action: Chance for Smashing Damage

and either
Positron's Blast: Chance for Energy Damage
or
Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal Damage
if you have room.

[/ QUOTE ]


Shouldn't that Debilitative Action be Impeded Swiftness Chance for Smashing Damage?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My suggested slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
Debilative Action: Chance for Smashing Damage

and either
Positron's Blast: Chance for Energy Damage
or
Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal Damage
if you have room.

[/ QUOTE ]


Shouldn't that Debilitative Action be Impeded Swiftness Chance for Smashing Damage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it should. Thanks for the catch!

I have mine slotted w/ 5 posi blast, 1 explosive strike proc. I'm fairly certain that either the posi blast isn't affecting the damage of the vines or the damage is just 'meh' still anyways, because I'm getting ticks of about 8'ish out of it right now.

Honestly, what I really want is the ability to slot the Recharge Intensive Pet sets in it once they work, so I can just get a bonus for four slots. :P

I'm really wondering if the enhancement is split up like other pets; Posi Blast affecting the Targeted AOE and other IO's affecting the powers that use the skills implied. Thus switching out the Explosive Strike for a common damage IO would be smart, as that common damage IO is going to affect ALL the powers that the patch has.

Note that then you get into some interesting questions RE: Enhancement Diversification; if the global power has a 98% damage bonus and the extra damage IO you threw in it is only a 5% buff on the global power, is it a 42%-ish buff to the power damage or a 5% one?

I'd love this power to be another 'awesome button' for my plant domi. As-is, though, it's not really even a 'meh' one, numerically. I think it's extremely fun, so I guess I should be satisfied with that.

Yes, like the Posi proc Damage and Accuracy from Targetted AoE sets will only effect the Targetted AoE portion of CC, namely the Creeper Entangle.

Changing it from Targetted AoE to Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pets should allow the Dam and Acc to transfer to all aspects of the pet.

Edit: I edited the guide to mention the stuff you've brought up, OfficeMan.

As for the ED question, i frankly have no idea how the game handles that. This is the only case where something like that is even possible.

[ QUOTE ]
Realistically, you will only have room for something like this:

(At Level 50)
3 level 40-50 Recharge Vanilla IOs
2 Acc/Dam Hammis
Impeded Swiftness: %Smashing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a very minor quibble with a fantastic guide... the 3 Recharge IOs put you so far into ED that I'd definitely replace one of them with a */Recharge IO. Force Feedback's Recharge/Endurance is a good choice since Creepers cost a ton to cast. It doesn't matter whether or not the enhancement values from Set IO's are passed down to individual sub-powers when you're talking about Endurance Reduction or Recharge, since pets ignore those anyway.

I was hoping to fit in two different */Recharge IOs from the same set to sneak in a tier 1 set bonus at minimal cost... unfortunately only ones that qualify have garbage bonuses.

Anyway, thank you for the excellent guide, and I am looking forward to i14. If only I'd known this info before I dropped millions worth of procs into my creepers last year...

Honestly, my recommended slotting for a domi would be different... I'd actually stick with what I've got. The proc's are nice, and the recharge is worth it. I'd definitely consider going with the damage IO instead of the KB proc, though. A 50 damage IO is 42%, which isn't shoddy at all. You just need to be wary of ED, which I'll test out tonight....

Note that if the Recharge Intensive Pet Sets are added, my recommended slotting would be 4x one of them + the explosive strike proc + the pacing of the turtle recharge slow proc....

I know you say there's already a lot of stacked -recharge here, but stacking -recharge is probably like stacking defense - cascading recharge failure is a really annoying thing. Feels like, say, playing against a stone tank without haste.

Creepers being fixed means my plant domi's gonna get nerfed, I think ;(

I'm not sure which part of the guide is current since there are two of them in the thread. Which post # should I refer to for the current version of how procs and slotting work with the Creeper?

Thanks!