Maybe try to keep the discussion on the issues and suggestions about EA. (not to FrostWeaver)
[ QUOTE ]
and I keep telling people, EA is NOT BROKEN Yes, it could be improved, but that doesn't mean it's broken, there is a huge difference.
Broken is not being able to solo on heroic without inspirations or temp powers. broken is not being able to take a +1 boss without help or a +0 EB WITH inspirations and/or temps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, EA is not broken. But you've to know that people are not that strict about their wording. When people say that a powerset is broken/terrible/horrible/underperforming, you've to read the rest of the post to know what it means. Very often, a simple tuning is all it needs when people say something is broken.
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe try to keep the discussion on the issues and suggestions about EA. (not to FrostWeaver)
[ QUOTE ]
and I keep telling people, EA is NOT BROKEN Yes, it could be improved, but that doesn't mean it's broken, there is a huge difference.
Broken is not being able to solo on heroic without inspirations or temp powers. broken is not being able to take a +1 boss without help or a +0 EB WITH inspirations and/or temps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, EA is not broken. But you've to know that people are not that strict about their wording. When people say that a powerset is broken/terrible/horrible/underperforming, you've to read the rest of the post to know what it means. Very often, a simple tuning is all it needs when people say something is broken.
[/ QUOTE ]
actually there are some very specific instances that show up a 'broken' powerset. Mostly specific missions.
Some sets (cough fire armor cough) can get owned by a +0 longbow ballista unless you have exactly the right defensive inspirations or enough primary mitigation. Gravity dominators can die regularly inside NORMAL missions without a team. Certain corrupters cannot solo the 'end bosses' in a lot of mission arcs. Some masterminds get beat badly from 12-17. I would argue that even Kinetics, earth control, and a few other sets need some serious looking into, because at certain level ranges they are 'broken'
/EA starts off strong, and never gets any weaker. Therefore, in my not-so-humble opinion, there are other things that need looking into a LOT sooner than /EA does. It doesn't 'take off in strength' in the end game like some sets do, but for an early game set it works quite well... an EA brute is NOT unplayable by any means, it's just slower than most of the other defensive sets... you aren't dying frequently, you simply are getting less exp/hour (although that is mitigated by the fact that you almost never have to run back from the hospital if you play your cards right)
Like I said, I am not arguing that it could use some improvements, but there are other sets that need improvement just as much if not more.
[ QUOTE ]
/EA starts off strong, and never gets any weaker
[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose the most simple reply would be to appeal to those new /EA players, or potential players, readers who skip to the end of the thread and read this post to do themselves a favour. Read as much of the rest of the thread as they have time for and interest in.
There are some excellent reasons why the above line of reasoning should be considered... unusual. Most are detailed at some length earlier in this thread.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Frostweaver,
You can't hide from me. I saw your post in the corruptor forums where you plead with the community to help you not give up on corruptors as unplayable. Now I deleted my rad/rad corruptor as unplayable at level 30. Yet most people say that's about as solid a soloer as you will find.
Different players are going to run into different experiences. I don't think the criteria people are complaining against is that EA is unplayable. The deficiencies that you mention are the ones that are complained about. It takes a few more inspis and too much caution against too many mobs with EA.
Now I defended EA for a long time, and I to this day would not call it 'broken.' But I would like to see some slight modifications to make it a little more solid against a wider variety of mobs. It's supposed to be a great soloing toon on account of the stealth, but there are too many mobs that require team support. While there are certainly a number of 'EA needs t3h h33lz' contributions to this thread by people who won't play any set any differently than they learned in the WoW tutorial, there are a number of good complaints by people asking for sensible changes to make the set more reliable in more situations.
Would you like to see EA ported to scrappers as is? Or do you think it would need some work before that AT could handle it? It seems that right now the only AT other than brute that the devs think EA is playable for is stalker. But brutes aren't stalkers. Brutes fill something of the tanker role and something of the scrapper role. As a damage dealer, an EA brute almost has more in common with a blaster than a scrapper in a relatively large number of situations. Those situations need to be llessened.
I dusted off Steel last night when I discovered he was sitting pretty on 20 million Infamy. I used my 33 Month Vetspec and respec-ed him back to my original concept which was Super Strength, Energy Aura, Leaping Pool, Hasten, Fitness and Tp-Foe/TP Friend.
I used IO's and a few sets.
He's not that bad! I did a Roman mission with him on Ruthless. I had to use OL on the boss, who conned as an EB - Which is understandable. Then again, I ate through all my greens over the mission and used all my purples on the boss (one small, one large).
And I even PvP-ed with him in Siren's against an SS/Invuln Tanker, Fire/Fire Scrapper and some Blasters.
The PvE wasn't that bad - Not as bad as I remember. The PvP left much to be desired.
/EA gets a bad rep, I think but it could definitely use some love. A click heal like Dull Pain, or even just a heal like the Stalkers get, would go a long way towards helping the set out.
<QR>
How about giving Energy Drain a Fulcrum Shift like property- you drain their end, but also lower their recharge speed and damage output giving you a boost to your recharge and damage output. I don't know if FS is auto hit or not, but this is what I was thinking of tonight when I was playing my EM/EA.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
Give EA a 3% Unenhanceable Heal tied to however many targets you hit.
If youre character is draining their energy and youre a being that uses energy for everything wouldnt a small Heal per Target Make some sense since you can use the large Siphon to produce extra?
sounds fun, but i think it's too much of EA's goodness tied into that one power.
i'd rather change up one of the others to add a power that was either a heal or some form of hp/regen.
I still like my idea of an RttC like aura for EA that would give +regen or heals per target and also serve as a taunt aura
hell, maybe EA should get a copy of Dark Armor's Dark Regen?
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
EA/ isn't broken, alright. Still massively underperforming and no 'fun' powers to compensate.
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
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sounds fun, but i think it's too much of EA's goodness tied into that one power.
i'd rather change up one of the others to add a power that was either a heal or some form of hp/regen.
I still like my idea of an RttC like aura for EA that would give +regen or heals per target and also serve as a taunt aura
hell, maybe EA should get a copy of Dark Armor's Dark Regen?
[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with that though? Quite a few sets have their Defining Characteristics from a single power after all.
I mean, Case and point: WP and RttC
Yeah, but you're asking for something like RttC + QR in one power though. All that health regen/healing and end recovery in one power is a bit too much.
i think it's much more probable and balanced for the set to ask for two powers that do that stuff, not a single one.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
In a perfect magical kingdom, I'd also wish the buff to take place in a power available before level 28.
Yes, ok, I'll grant that such a desire is hardly the most important concern. I'd much rather take any change, even at 35, than no change. Thing is, in the later game this set does have the capacity to add quite a bit with pools and IOs. No I do not think this should be a primary balance consideration, but at least it's something.
In the early game EA does not even provide this option.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
well, there's not reason I see to preclude some power rearrangement.
for WP, they get RttC early and then shore that up with other powers. EA could get its defense early and then shore that up with other powers.
maybe I could see Cloak, Drain and CP(or another power) getting flipped around to give the set a smoother progression.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
What do you think about just going to positional defense on the shields? Basically keep everything else the same, but go positional defense? Maybe put the actual levels up to what SR has, but leave the defense debuff resistance at the levels that it currently has? So you would get somewhere between ninjitzu and SR in protection. But FF has positional defense, it could work along the same concept. But all holes would be gone. The only 'hole' left would be defense debuffing mobs, which would create a reliance on overload. Basically make the shields themselves the same value as the SR toggles, and energy cloak the same as the passives.
I'd have to spend billions to re-IO the toon, but I'd do it. What do people think about that?
yeah, it's more consistent and easier to IO but I really don't like that option. I feel like that's admitting defeat and just gutting the set.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
OK I honestly think all this other stuff is not going to happen. Check all the other buffs and nerfs they have been doing to sets over the years. It's always: change an animation, add/remove a little damage, add/remove a percentage here in there in a crit, defense, resitance, etc, add/remove some time from an activation time, recharge time, etc. I mean look at the changes they did to the stalker AT set recently. Look at the changes to the martial arts set. Heck, even all the changes in the game between I1 and I7, adding ED, etc. and the invuln set is STILL the same set of powers. Is there a historical precedent ANYWHERE for an AT or a powerset like adding a whole new dimension to its play? Where has a resistance power ever become a HP boost power? Where has a set all the sudden come up with a brand new self heal?
It just doesn't happen. Sometimes the little tweaks have had MAJOR effects on gameplay, but the set overall maintains its same look, feel, concept. Even with the burn nerf and the healing flames buff and all the many changes that the fire sets have gone through, it's STILL kept to its basic design as a set that does a little more damage and is a little squishie.
I just don't see energy drain turning into invincibility on the EA set. I just don't see conserve power becoming a self-heal. These things just aren't going to happen.
Maybe in coming up with sober and responsible and likely to really be seriously considered by the devs changes to the set, we need to be thinking about where we would like to have a couple of extra percentage points or where we would like to have a couple of a fractions of a second to play with. Such changes have the potential really make EA a much better set, but keep the concept the same. They also have the chance to really be accepted by the devs. But they are hard to find. Saying we want an extra 10% defense across the board is just going to unbalance the set. We've got to keep the set balanced while making it more satisfying to play and pretty much keep the defining features of the set the same. Not many people are doing that here. They are saying things like 'I think EA would be cooler if we switched out conserve power with granite.' or something. I think we lose the serious attention of the devs when we do that.
Positional defense is honestly too drastic to really be considered if I think about it. And if the psi hole were removed, it would be the first in the game.
So if you could only get some tweaks in the numbers, what would they be? Enhanceable defense debuff resists? Capped energy defense? Are these things too drastic? Or could they actually happen? They would be some of the most serious buffs to a set that a set has ever gotten.
I want the devs to take me seriously when I ask for stuff. So I am trying to gauge what would just be too much, and what, if we got it, would really make the set better.
I dont want EA to become just another positional defence set, typed defence has its charms and variety is always good. The problem is the devs threw away the pattern of goodness that was the typed defence set of ice with its myriad of mitigation and replaced it with a junk set. Very minor resistences and 2 endurance related powers do not equal +def coupled in ices end recovery power, capped cold resistence, -damage, slow, slow resist, a big [censored] heal and HP power. Oh and ice armour has access to conserve power if they need in the epics a mere 6 lvls after EA.
More variety and mitigation needs to be dialed into EA, my suggestions? +HPs in the passives, +defence and/or +damage to you and/or -damage to those hit by energy drain. Conserve power at lvl 35 is basically a junk power these days but there will always be some who love and use the power so theres little you can do about that.
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Is there a historical precedent ANYWHERE for an AT or a powerset like adding a whole new dimension to its play?
[/ QUOTE ]
Gravity controls Tier 9 used to be fold space which was the team recall, this was swapped out for singularity on live. Thats precendent enough for the possibility of wide reaching changes. Probable? Most likely not but there have been MASSIVE changes to many powers and sets since release, MOG was a huge change. Castle errs on the cautious side of cautious but theres always a possibility.
The suggestion to change to positional defense is in the summary(A1, the first entry), which is the first post of the thread. It's up to the dev. I believe the suggestion is not very likely to occur, because positional defense is related to dodging attacks, while typed defense is for deflecting attacks. Energy aura is more closely related to deflecting than dodging.
However, it would be nice if the problems that you and several others mentioned can be addressed: power designers can poke holes in typed-defense set easily, and the relative ease to optimize IO bonus for positional defense. As mentioned, these problems have more serious ramifications to energy aura than ice armor.
And how well is the defense debuff in this set?
50% (or a few percentages more) at level 50 if you have all your toggles running. Over 80% (I think about 84%) with overload up.
OK how about this for concept. People seem pretty convinced that the defense in EA is based on the concept of deflection, and therefore it should not have psi defense because there is nothing mental about it. What about the idea that overload sends such energy coursing through and around the character that it has an effect on him kind of like electroshock therapy or being on some kind of psychotropic drug that his brain is impervious to psi. Basically, in game terms, add 40% enhanceable psi defense to overload. Just like everything else. This would have the effect of giving into the 'complaint' that many have that EA relies too much on its godmode. But the general consensus is that overload may just be the coolest godmode in the game. It is the only one that grants +HP as far as I know and EA with its endurance management makes it the easiest godmode in the game to recover from. But this point can be argued that it is not the coolest godmode in the game because it does not offer full protection. Retzu and elude offer full protection to everything but toxic, which I don't really consider when I talk about full protection because it is so unique and so many toons have a problem with it. But back in issue 7 when I had a build with 40% defense to S/L, I felt like overload was useless because the only time I ever needed it (which was against a lot of psi), it didn't really help. Now this was kind of noob ignorance, because I was not making use of the increased defense debuff resistance or the +HP. So I was unaware that there were times where overload helps a lot, and other times where it helps a little. So I would be on a psi map and want to pop overload and be impervious and play stupid and overload would not get the job done and I thought it was useless. I hould have popped overload and played slightly less cautiously. So the point is that overload DOES protect against psi and toxic....a little. But I think adding psi defense would give the player a lot more consistancy and a feeling that his godmode truly is uber in many more situations.
Giving psi defense to overload would absolutely eliminate any and all doubt that overload is the game's best godmode and EA is the best set to play if you want to build a toon that lives in godmode and is completely tough based on it.
There would be those who still whined about the set because it needs its godmode and this makes the set a late bloomer. But EA would offer the game something unique in being the game's ultimate godmode set.
What do you guys think about that?
I think Granite already is the ultimate godmode. and that wouldn't likely displace it. Too little, too late.
plus, you can already argue the the +health in Overload acts as pseudo-psy protection.
If Elec can use Static Electricity to bolster its synaptic activity, then surely EA's entropy shield could be used to provide Psy Def of some amount. Hell, I'd settle for having the same 10.5% that Neg gets from Power Shield.
Psy Def is one of my list of 3 things EA should get without any argument from devs.
1. capped Nrg mitigation
2. Taunt in Energy Drain
3. Psy Def
hmmm...
howabout 2 new powers.
1. combine passive resists into 1 that gives 9.375% E, 7.5% to SLFCN
2. replace 2nd passive with a new one that gives +10% end, 10% HP
3. replace CP with Siphon Speed
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an example of a soft-capped /ea brute. Now, you wouldn't USE this kind of a build (at least I wouldn't) because it's light on the offense, but it is clearly POSSIBLE,..
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so everyone knows, this build uses:
hover, combat jumping, manuevers, tough, and weave on top of EA's native defenses to have 40+% defenses vs most things. This means that you have no more PP picks - no stamina for you!
Ignoring the "light on offense" part, this build is unplayable. You would have to live on blues.
Oh, and you can play that game with SR as well (and I assume ninja). Slap maneuvers, hover, combat jumping, and weave on top of SR and you get 45.7% defenses to everything, no holes, no execuses.
-Jeff