Discussion: Positron and Castle on Warcry.com
By
Anti_Proton,
Posted on: 2008-04-21 14:58 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
<QR>
I would love to see some blow back for that mission in CoV where you blow up the generators. Some "villians" fail that mission on purpose to fight the system or some crap. It would be great if you go back to your contact and he says "WTF?! You failed?!! Go kill the reporter, or else." Then if you fail to go kill the reporter, or just choose not to do it he sics his goons on you, that harrass you every time you zone. It would be neat- and a little more thematic.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
Well, it will certainly added an extra element of tension to Safeguard Missions when you have six bombs to disengage and you have select the right wire. Of course the inherent Villain in me would choose the wrong wire. Not that I get off on seeing my team fail, but it can be fun 
Like pulling four mobs.
I really really hope that they apply the branching to the villain arcs where you get a different souvenier if you let the clock run out - to differentiate beween failing, and choosing to let the clock run down.
Also branches in any story arcs that currently make assumptions about what your character does (please, for the love of (diety of choice) let us beat Hardcase to a bloody pulp rather than be intimidated by him) or make them out to be an idiot.
#2409 - The Mystery of the MAGI vaults. Azuria has contacted you to help her stop the thefts from the MAGI vaults.
#68054 - Out of the gutters. Left for dead, you swore that you were through with being a victim (alt villain beginning story)
Thing I am most interested in is the branching dialog tech.
It would be great if some missions (particularly villain side) allowed you to make some choices and see it effect the mission completion and contact dialog
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
I like the branching dialogue news however I think that a lot of posters are getting more worked up about it than it warrants. I expect the uses are going to be minor at first and, based on past examples, I really doubt they are going to go back and re-work old storylines (at least not soon and not many if any).
They haven't retrofitted old stories with the "Story/Chapter" formatting and that seems like a much easier "fix" than re-writing stories to include branched paths.
I think this new feature is good but I don't think it is going to transform CoX into Fallout (which had great branching stories and dialogue).
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
Referring to VEATs, "This is largely content for level characters in the Villains half of the game only, but it balances things out between the Heroes - who've had their own Epic Archetypes for quite some time."
My sincerest hope is that this same philosophy is taken and applied to the Patron Power Pools.
~ Jonathan
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that this is a difficult format to work in. For one, you can't have interpersonal consequences except in extremely rare occasions, because between a few hundred thousand players each individual player will have their own consequences so completely subsumed by those of others as to render their individual changes completely and utterly trivial.
This destroys the notion of being a significant force in a fictional world, and as such takes out much of the enjoyment of playing a superhero game because you just aren't 'super' anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you just can't have one player or team making choices that change the game world for everyone. Barring special circumstances, this is probably always going to be a minor disappointment in the game.
On the other hand, this opens up all sorts of possibilities for each character's personal storyline.
I just finished running a couple new villains through the beginning of CoV, and I was thinking how cool it would be if you had a choice of, say, turning the Mu Codex over to Burke or telling him it was destroyed in the battle and keeping it for yourself. Your decision has no immediate effect (other than a significant infamy boost, or maybe a nifty new piece of rare salvage or something), but when you hit level 8 or so, if you turned it over to him, he gives you a special mission or two; if you didn't, he starts sending goons after you, and you have to either go make up with him or beat the tar out of him to get him to back off.
Or what if operative Burch, from Kalinda's first mission, offered you the choice to either kill him or let him go? Kill him, and Kalinda is pleased and you continue with her missions. Let him go, and you lose Kalinda as a contact but Burch becomes your new contact and offers you a different series of missions. Of course Kalinda won't let that slide, so either Burch's missions or later missions allow you the chance to square accounts one way or another with her and Arachnos.
This also raises the possibility of some genuine mystery-solving. Clues might actually get to be clues instead of just sign-posts pointing to the next mission. Like at the end of Positron's TF, instead of him figuring out the whole scheme and sending the characters on the final mission, he could say, "Okay, I see two possibilities here. Either they're doing A or they might also be doing B. You're the ones who've been in the field on this one. What do you think?" And then you get to use all the clues you have to figure out which mission to take.
So, yeah, I'm veritably gushing with the possibilities.
I just hope--really, really, really hope--they do start going back and reworking the early content. All the neat stuff they're throwing in will just make that early, legacy stuff look even weaker by comparison.
[ QUOTE ]
I like the branching dialogue news however I think that a lot of posters are getting more worked up about it than it warrants. I expect the uses are going to be minor at first and, based on past examples, I really doubt they are going to go back and re-work old storylines (at least not soon and not many if any).
They haven't retrofitted old stories with the "Story/Chapter" formatting and that seems like a much easier "fix" than re-writing stories to include branched paths.
I think this new feature is good but I don't think it is going to transform CoX into Fallout (which had great branching stories and dialogue).
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! Quit harshing my buzz, [censored].
Nah, kidding.
I hate to admit it, but you're probably right. Even if they do go back and start changing the existing content, we're probably not going to notice anything major for quite a while.
Still, a couple very significant things have changed recently: they now have sole control of the property, and they actually have a full-blown dev team to work with.
So past examples might not apply anymore.
On the other hand, there's always going to be more to do with the game then there are people available to do it, so some things will just not get done.
So best course right now is probably wait and see, cautious optimism, fingers crossed, here's hoping, but don't get those hopes up too high mister, cause you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment.
Whoo! Branching dialogue! And in the spirit of the forums, I have to complain:
"You just bring this up NOW?" This is potenially very, very cool for new missions and options. I'd like to add one where we get the option of smacking Phipps in the face, personally.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's his accredited work 
[/ QUOTE ]
So we have Castle to thank for Master of Orion 3?
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
It couldn't be his fault, look he worked on Lost Vikings.
[/ QUOTE ]
I love Lost Vikings.
In fact, of the games I remember that he's worked on, the only stinker is MOO3, and most are fondly remembered. The biggest problem on the list is his lack of accomplishments since 2005. That's the main problem with working on an MMO, I guess. It just doesn't pad your resume with games. 
YAY! Branching dialog!
I12 can't get here soon enough.
Synergy Lvl 50 Def FF/Electric/Psy - Protector
Cimarron - Protector Mascot
My DA Page
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's his accredited work
[/ QUOTE ]
So we have Castle to thank for Master of Orion 3?
[/ QUOTE ]
MOO3 ... well had so many problems from a few different sides, hard for me to blame anyone solely or specifically for it .
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, hold on just one more turn.......
I find it sad that this article was written so poorly. It was obviously not spell checked and was not reread for accuracy. In several locations there are missing words, and the Crab Spider / Bane spider descriptions.
"The Crab Spiders have some pet and stealth tools to go with their melee arsenal, while the Bane Spider takes the warrior thing to an even further degree."
They should be reversed... Article was really only informative if you have been living in a cave under a rock not playing CoX...
Very let down overall by the article.
(qr)
I'm busy at work lately, so I can't read through the entire thread, but I just want to say how the "branching dialogue" is probably my fav feature in the issue now. This is an incredible step for this game. INCREDIBLE.
Ever issue, I contact friends and tell them they should return b/c they're adding "x" and "y". Sometimes they return, sometimes they don't. Most times, it doesn't last long. It depends on the content, but, the biggest reason they explain to me that they're bored is "the 4 missions" available. Escort, Glowy, Defeat boss, or Kill all. They've all said (and by all, it's only 3 people) that the game play is just way to linier for them. It's fun for a bit, but they tend to get really bored of advancing nearly exclusively in 4 mission types. No, I've never felt this way, but my RL friends that have left all think it is.
I'm really excited that this is being added. New and creative mission objectives will nearly certainly allow me to convince my friends to return one more time.
I strongly, strongly hope that Posi and the gang are considering an Issue completely dedicated to revamping old content to include the new tech.
Annnnnd lastly, I'm getting married on Saturday, I consider this my wedding present from the Dev team. Thanks guys! This is great! Much better then the stupid Mikasa wine goblets on the registry!!
[ QUOTE ]
Thing I am most interested in is the branching dialog tech.
It would be great if some missions (particularly villain side) allowed you to make some choices and see it effect the mission completion and contact dialog
[/ QUOTE ]
I fully expect to see this for new villain content. Unfortunately I expect that existing content will take time to be redone. Hopefully not to much time though, this is one of the problems on red side. The very static nature of the missions and that the player generally doesn't have any choices they can make. I expect that this could make red side more successfulf if they can go back and redo the missions.
I would love it if they could at least revisit one contact each issue. More than that would be delightful but if even one contact and their missions per issue could be fixed this would be good.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's his accredited work
[/ QUOTE ]
So we have Castle to thank for Master of Orion 3?
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
It couldn't be his fault, look he worked on Lost Vikings.
[/ QUOTE ]
I love Lost Vikings.
In fact, of the games I remember that he's worked on, the only stinker is MOO3, and most are fondly remembered. The biggest problem on the list is his lack of accomplishments since 2005. That's the main problem with working on an MMO, I guess. It just doesn't pad your resume with games.
[/ QUOTE ]
Even MOO3 had alot of good points. I think it is more that it got redesigned one to many times and so carried far to much extra baggage. I have MOO3 and still play it occasionally but I'll admit to playing MOO2 more. Still it wasn't all bad and I don't think I would blame the dev team for it failing. They made it into a moderatly functional game from what I suspect was a disaster.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thing I am most interested in is the branching dialog tech.
It would be great if some missions (particularly villain side) allowed you to make some choices and see it effect the mission completion and contact dialog
[/ QUOTE ]
I fully expect to see this for new villain content. Unfortunately I expect that existing content will take time to be redone. Hopefully not to much time though, this is one of the problems on red side. The very static nature of the missions and that the player generally doesn't have any choices they can make. I expect that this could make red side more successfulf if they can go back and redo the missions.
I would love it if they could at least revisit one contact each issue. More than that would be delightful but if even one contact and their missions per issue could be fixed this would be good.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking this tech will be initially only implemented in the SoA story-lines. The whole "infiltrating Arachnos" element just screams for this...
Hopefully the feature will prove so popular, that they'll re-do major existing story arcs over time. Hey! How's about for I13 Posi's TF gets redone with this new tech and the villains get a brand-new TF using it?
I can't find anything to cry DOOM about from that interview!
Additional money = additional development. Fine by me.
Branching dialog trees. This could be huge. Imagine story arcs that change depending on your choices or whether you succeed in a mission.
Example of cool things branching can do: You have a story arc to stop a Giant Robot from being built. In the final mission you have 20 minutes to destory the operation.
If you shut it down you get reward and story arc reward.
If you fail a GM Robot comes steaming down the halls after you. No way most teams/soloers could handle a GM by themselves so the only option is to run for it. Once out of the mission the GM Robot spawns in the zone (just what you were trying to avoid).
Or perhaps you have a 3rd option where the GM Spawns in an enemy zone (villains point it at Paragon City, heros to Rogue Isles).
All this and lots more powersets, slots and an improved interface.
Fun stuff.
----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
[ QUOTE ]
Here's his accredited work
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey cool, I didn't even know that site existed.
I'm in there, I feel like a rockstar now
*searches for other friends*
Branching dialogue, very cool. this was one of the things I LOVED about pirates of the burning sea: there was branching dialogue with RP based missions. Hopefully, not only will this add consequence to missions, but personality to our characters (responses based on various moods, for example.) I can only see good things come of this.
[ QUOTE ]
Whoo! Branching dialogue! And in the spirit of the forums, I have to complain:
"You just bring this up NOW?" This is potenially very, very cool for new missions and options. I'd like to add one where we get the option of smacking Phipps in the face, personally.
[/ QUOTE ]
He's the only villain contact that makes me feel bad about being a vilain. : \
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
[ QUOTE ]
Heh, it's like the pot and the kettle
[/ QUOTE ]
And what exactly does that mean? If you're going to snipe me, then snipe me to my face. I take the charge of hypocrisy very seriously... it's probably the only thing I take seriously. So Explain your comment better, plz.
Interesting info there about Floyd though. I knew he'd been around a while but I didn't know he was THAT Ol... err "Veteraned". IE: early 90's console publishing. I wonder if that means he ever got to meet Morhaime, Wyatt, or Didier in person since they all touched the same game at some point. Also Ironic: Apparently Floyd was involved in a Market simulator? Yet deflects all requests for making predictions on our WW/BM markets every chance he gets... Methinks he knows a hell of a lot more than he's letting on and we should get that info out by any means necessary, it would be very Profitable.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's also excited about the addition of traditional RPG branching tree dialogue, something they didn't have in City of Heroes until this Issue and will now begin to use quite a bit.
"In this issue it's just the test bed for it, we got the tech late into the development process so we were not able to use it everywhere we wanted to," said Miller.
This allows them to put options into conversations or theoretically do things like present players with situations like which wire to cut when diffusing a bomb. It sounds simple, but it makes their options as mission designers much greater.
Miller could not - however - comment on whether they plan to go back over old content and backwards integrate this technology.
[/ QUOTE ]
ZOMG YAY
[/ QUOTE ]
What she said!
How exactly did this tidbit get buried in the back of a third-party interview? This is a serious potential paradigm shift.
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
[ QUOTE ]
Good stuff in that interview Although there's not a lot of new news, the "branching content" quip is interesting for possibilities with future missions.
Edit: I think they reversed the quips for Bane Spiders and Crab Spiders.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ditto on both points.
(I hate to be too critical, but this article is one of the most poorly written I've seen in some time.)
The "No comment" section of the article is worth mentioning. I know the devs are concentrating on the storylines and systems of upcoming expansions, but it would be an outstanding QoL adjustment to see the "branching" system applied to old content. It would make a huge impact on veterans and newcomers. I would love to see a team put together for the sole purpose of accomplishing that goal.
Devs, please consider it as a project simliar in importance and release to the issue dubbed "11.5". In other words, it can be something that gets added to the game outside of a major expansion, even though it will impact the entire game greatly, like Combat Attributes. If a team was assigned to this task exclusively, it would not get in the way of pushing the new content live as much as trying to do it alongside the newer content.
Please consider this. Thank you for all you are doing to make the game better for all of us.
Damn, I nearly missed the most significant announcement by far. Branching dialogue would be a massive development for mumorpugers in general. It may even be a first.
I don't think they'll introduce that dramatic decisions at first, and probably restrict the effects of your decisions to different missions and different souvenirs. We might see some big consequences later as they figure out how to incorporate them properly.
Keep in mind that this is a difficult format to work in. For one, you can't have interpersonal consequences except in extremely rare occasions, because between a few hundred thousand players each individual player will have their own consequences so completely subsumed by those of others as to render their individual changes completely and utterly trivial. This destroys the notion of being a significant force in a fictional world, and as such takes out much of the enjoyment of playing a superhero game because you just aren't 'super' anymore.
There are also some advantages and disadvantages for a multiplayer-format game with branching dialogue that determines future content. Unlike other games, where your significant decisions can close off some content completely to you on a specific character, you can play in teams with others to play that content. On the other hand, while multiple saves and drastically faster character advancement mean that it is relatively easy to experience the missed content in singleplayer games, the months-long periods required to do the same for online characters makes multiplayer content-borrowing a neccesity, and means players who can't work in teams are going to see much less content than everybody else.
This really does promise to be a very interesting development for gaming, regardless of whether it succeeds or fails.