ah, very cool... I have some testing to do. Thanks!
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Very true. Given that the question "Is it worthwhile to slot a damage proc?" comes up a lot, how would you answer it?
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Here's my take, at least on PBAoE toggles. You can apply this to click powers, but you have to take into recharge rates, and I haven't really spent the time to take notes on how procs perform in normal attacks and whatever. BTW, I wrote this up for another thread, but thought it was more appropriate here (only slightly edited), so it may be repeating stuff others have already said.
Basically, the higher the base damage, the less worth it the proc is. The procs do fixed, player lvl-based damage, listed by Natsuki, that's independent of how much normal damage the power does. That means if the power does a lot of base damage (say, Hotfeet or Blazing Aura), normally taking/slotting for damage or slotting other powers that affect its damage (say Assault, AM, EF, FS, etc) gives you more "bang for the buck" than slotting a lower base damage power. However, this also means that slotting a constant damage proc in those high base damage powers gives you a proportionally smaller return. Of course, slotting procs in powers w/no damage is a pure win, *if* you can account for the usually high end costs (think Arctic Air).
Here's a made up example. Lets say power A does 5 points of damage per sec and power B does 10 points of damage/sec (assume 100% accuracy for simplicity's sake). A damage proc will do 50 pts on a hit, but only hits 20% of the time, and it pulses every 10 sec. So on average, that proc is only worth 1 point of damage/sec. On power A, that 1/sec damage is worth 20% of base, or less than a SO's worth. On power B, it's only worth 10% of base, or less than a DO's worth. Now you have to ask yourself, what's that slot worth to you? If you're not already ED capped for damage, you'd definitely want to do that on both powers before selecting a proc.
My observations running Herostats while running w/toons w/damage procs find is that 1 damage proc in Mud Pots, otherwise fully slotted for damage, adds around 15-18% to overall damage, or 30-35% of base damage, so about an even SO's worth of damage. Since I already have Pots ED capped for damage, that's totally worth it for me to spend another slot for an extra SO's worth of damage. Of course, Pots is capped for end redux as well and decent slow & acc bonuses to boot, though no taunt slotting. I could place a 2nd damage proc, but it would disrupt too many other things (including set bonuses).
For Hotfeet, Blazing Aura and the like, the proc only adds like 12-15% of base, or a DO's worth. That's very borderline on if it's worth it or not. I decided to keep it for my Fire/Rad to run a single damage proc in Hotfeet (again, could add a 2nd, but definitely not worth it), but not so worth it for my Fire/EM tank to run any damage procs in Blazing Aura. BTW, Both of these toons are very high DPS machines, so the extra damage from the procs are almost inconsequential, so the single proc in Hotfeet is *really* borderline, but on my Stone/Ice tank running Pots above, that one damage proc really adds to his AoE damage.
As for those non-damaging toggles that you can slot into, again, there's those other costs to consider, as well as slot bonuses. my Ice/Storm only slots 2 damage proc in Arctic Air cuz I want the 5th set bonus of Malaise's, 6.25% recharge, but many slot all 3 available damage procs in that power (slow, confuse & fear). In fact, even the 2nd damage proc in AA kills the end redux portion of that power, which is an end hog calling for capped end redux slotting, but I have other IO recovery bonuses to take care of that. If you don't, I wouldn't recommend the 2nd damage proc, or you'd just have to be willing to lose the set bonus.
Some other factors to keep in mind, of course, is the damage type. Mixing in a lethal proc w/fire damage for Hotfeet is very nice, even though lethal is far more heavily resisted. Like with investing, diversification is the key to long term success.
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Ok I read the whole thing and I still need a map drawn for me, so how does it work in Spectral Terror? Do I just get the one psy damage from the fear proc or do I get it every 10 seconds that spectral terror is out?
Also, I am not sure I can but I think their is a hold/psy damage proc I was tempted to throw in choking cloud. Would this mean this damage proc had a chance of going off every 2 seconds?
Spectral Terror has two powers to it.
One is a toggle that effects those in melee range of the Spectral Terror, every 10 seconds here.
The other is a click that is a ranged cone, every time it fires it there will be a chance with that.
For Choking Cloud, it would be every 10 seconds. It's a toggle.
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I was about to ask the same question.
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Spectral Terror has two powers to it.
One is a toggle that effects those in melee range of the Spectral Terror, every 10 seconds here.
The other is a click that is a ranged cone, every time it fires it there will be a chance with that.
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I did some testing on the trolls in Skyway, Natsuki is correct, it fires on summon//toggle, and when ST uses its cone. Effective, and scaring people to death is good times.
Thanks for the excellent guide Natsuki!
You're welcome, glad ya liked the guide. And I'm glad that theory is correct. 
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Natsuki for your outstanding work on testing Procs and writing an excellent introductory guide on Procs I think they should award you a new Forum Title.
I was thinking The Proc-tologist
What?
It was just a thought.
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Pediatric brain tumors are the #1 cause of cancer related deaths in children.
<Laughs> That'd be kinda cool really.
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One thing I've noticed that the guide doesn't address is the procs chance to actually hit the mob. I believe it has base accuracy and is effected by both accuracy buffs and defence debuffs. What I don't know is whether it gains the accuracy of an attack power if it's in one. Does anyone know whether this is the case?
Most of my procs are in toggles or click powers such as Earthquake or Quicksand that don't deal damage on their own. As such with just base accuracy they aren't very useful against bosses and higher level mobs because they tend to "miss" even if they proced. If you can get defence debuffs working ( Freezing Rain, Quicksand, Radiation Infection ) then their chance to "hit" goes up.
If anyone knows better how this actually works, I'd love to hear the numbers behind it.
It's based on if the attack the proc is slotted in hits.
If the attack misses, there is no chance for the proc to fire.
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Nice material in here.
I was thinking of slotting a knockback proc into a singularity. I can't quite work out in what circumstances the proc can trigger though. Will it trigger off the sing attacking (especially with its knockup power), or only when mobs try to melee the sing & get bounced back?
It will only trigger on the Singularities powers that can knockback.
Which would be Lift, and Repel.
In the case of Lift, it'll have a chance to fire every time it uses Lift.
For Repel, it falls under the toggle/auto rule, so, every 10 seconds (whether there is a foe in range or not) it will roll a chance to proc against all foes in range. Yes, that means if an enemy walks into the Repel area and gets KB'd out at the 5 second mark it will NOT trigger.
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Hmm.. thanks for that! Good info.
It would be self defeating to put a KB proc in repel then? The odds of foes being "in range" in any 10 second interval has to be mininal given the power is always throwing them back.
(I wondered why the KB procs were so cheap...)
I have a question about the Proc's chance to activate, specifically regarding multiple procs in the same power...
If you have more than one proc in the same power, does each proc generate it's own chance to activate at the appropriate time, or is there a single chance to activate check that is then applied to all procs on the power?
So for instance, say you put a 20% chance for smashing damage and a 10% chance for hold onto a scrapper's attack. When you attack with that power (presuming it hits) Do you generate one % check (say the check results in a 15%, causing the smash to activate and the hold to fail to activate), or do you generate two separate % checks (one for each proc)? What about the scrapper's critical chance? does this activate on the same proc % check, or does it get it's own "roll"?
In essence, if I have 2 different procs in the same power, and each has a 20% chance, if 1 activates, does that mean both activate?
I can see benefits to either system, but would like to know for certain which way it works, in order to make better decisions about how I slot my procs...
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Each proc rolls it's chance separately. They are essentially separate powers attached to the power you slot them in.
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Very important, not listed portion of your guide:
All procs, except for (iirc) the Lady Grey: Chance For Negative and Apocalypse: Chance for Negative are unresistable.
I have not tested all of them, but for certain:
Neuronic Shutdown, Ghost Widow's Embrace, Traps of the Hunter, and Unbreakable Constraint are unresistable; tested on an electric armor brute with all shields up and in powersurge; did identical damage compared to the same brute with no shields or tier 9 active.
I'm sure the value of procs just changed for some people.
I believe that's only in PvP that they are considered unresisted. At the time I wrote this guide, it was based on my testing in PvE and it wasn't until much much later that I found out that some procs are unresisted in PvP.
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Well, either way, it's not in your guide <3
That's true, I mainly wanted to hit the main points.
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Anyone happen to know, does Gloom get multiple chances to fire a proc from a single click for the DoT? or does the proc only fire once from the initial click.
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Anyone happen to know, does Gloom get multiple chances to fire a proc from a single click for the DoT? or does the proc only fire once from the initial click.
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Gloom fires one time only and thus only one chance.
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Two questions.
1) Any chance of getting one of the mods to update your OP with the newer proc additions? It would be nice to have a comprehensive list, and this seems like the ideal place for it.
2) How do procs work on powers that themselves have a % chance to activate? If I understand what I read in this thread correctly, the power a proc is slotted in has to succeed in its tohit check (if there is one) before the proc chance is rolled. However what if the effect the proc is targetting has a roll also?
I'm specifically asking about Seeker Drones. You can slot a disorient proc in them, but the disorient aspect of this power only has a 25% chance to activate. So does the proc roll every time the tohit check succeeds, or only when the tohit check *and* disorient roll succeed?
IO Procs fire separately from 'procs' in powers.
The only thing that an IO Proc checks for is "Can this power be enhanced by my type?" If it can then every time that power fires it will roll the chance for the proc itself.
This is why in the case of the Explosive Strike chance for Smashing damage Proc slotted into Enforcers for Thugs MM, it will only trigger on ONE of their powers. Because only the "Blast Clip" power is enhanceable for knockback.
So, in answer to your question there for Seeker Drones, it will roll a chance for the proc every time the tohit check succeeds whether or not the disorient roll succeeds.
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I believe that's only in PvP that they are considered unresisted. At the time I wrote this guide, it was based on my testing in PvE and it wasn't until much much later that I found out that some procs are unresisted in PvP.
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Procs are definitely resistable in PvE, I have both an energy and psi proc in Deceive and I frequently see two different numbers as energy resistance is much more common than Psi.
It's based on the attacks of the pseudo. In theory (I say this because I have NOT tested it), each of his click attacks that are enhanceable by the type of proc will have a chance to cause the damage.
So, when he uses Petrifying Gaze, a Hold Proc has a chance to fire. When he uses Tenebrous Tentacles, an Immobilize Proc has a chance to fire.
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