[ QUOTE ]
I'm of two minds about the End cost for /Icy.
Ice attacks have a recharge debuff, so are buying some control as well as damage with that end. So, it's not unreasonable for Icy attacks to cost more for the same damage.
I guess the question in my mind is - "does the End premium the Icy is paying match the cost of an equivalent control power". Can a dom with /Icy forgo using some control set usage and use that end for damage instead?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know this issue has now been tabled, but to chime in briefly - In some, laregely non-dangerous situations, /Ice's slows can act as a form of control, but this effect is severely limited and does not eliminate the need for control from the primary. The scenario that immediately came to mind is soloing a three-band of mobs; STH one, Ice-Blast and Ice-Bolt a second to slow the approach to melee, while retreating; STH the third, and then continue blasting the second, while waiting for the STH to recharge again. Essentially, the Slow aspect of Icy Assault serves as a semi-immobilize in this case.
Bear in mind however that this type of situation is more easily solved through use of AOE control. All in all, I don't think that the Slow and -Rech aspects of /Ice, as useful as they are in adding to impact on a team and general utility, can really count as an additional layer of control.
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
[ QUOTE ]
Next on the list:
[ QUOTE ]
Debuffs from control powers should not be reduced in effectiveness compared to the Controller versions, because they are not boosted by Domination. This particularly affects Ice Control, because none of its staple controls (Ice Slick, Shiver, Arctic Air) are appreciably improved by Domination. Affected control powers are all Ice Control powers with their slow debuffs, Smoke and Hot Feet with accuracy and slow debuffs, as well as the holds and immobilizes from Gravity Control with their slows.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed: this is the prime reason I decided not to make an Ice Dominator. There's very little opportunity within the primary to stack Magnitudes of effect, and Domination, it seems, does not give the boost to one's effectiveness that it would for other primaries.
This may be in part due to the nature of the primary, which offers more AOE soft control options (the three named powers above), at the expense of harder control. It's difficult to see how this can be changed without alterations to the set that may irritate established players, or require new powers to be added -- unlikely and a bad precedent to ask for.
If debuffs were raised to Controller levels, this would indeed be a help for the powers (beyond Ice/) that you've listed.
As an additional note on Ice/, these three powers also receive less from /Ice's Power Boost, which is unfortunate, since Ice/Ice is a common pairing. (Slick sees no benefit; Shiver is boosted to, I think, max -rech or -slow, which is not far beyond the unboosted Controller version*; Artctic Air's mechanics don't work terribly well with a brief uptick in -slow and % confuse, since its debatable benefits seem more of an 'over time' soft control).
(*I may be wrong here; I'm terrible about knowledge re/ caps for buffs and debuffs and such.)
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
I think the re-draw issue is largely aesthetics, since Dominators end up throwing more powers which cause a redraw than most other characters with sets that include a redraw. E.g: A ForceField/Archer doesn't have to deal with the redraw in mid-combat anywhere near as often as a Mind/Thorns would. (And while it's only a slight annoyance, it is kind of distracting when your character is in a constant cycle of draw, sheath, redraw.)
As to the debuff thing... I'm all for buffing Dominators, piecemeal or wholesale, but I only see two ways of implementing that particular buff, and neither of them seems all that plausible. The first is to simply up our Debuff modifiers, to globally pump our debuff prowess. But that becomes a problem because then we have full debuff capabilities without full buff capabilities, which puts us in something of an odd position where -Def is intrinsically more powerful in our hands than +ToHit. That may follow a certain balance logic, and it may well fit into certain design schemas, but I'm not convinced it's what's best for us, and the devs may very well say, "No, that's not what we had in mind."
The other solution would be to simply go into every power in our primaries that has debuffs which are underperforming and increase them on a case-by-case basis until they're dead-even with what the Controller versions do. And I'm not happy with that for two reasons. First, because it's a kludge. And second, because that's basically saying, "We're underperforming because Controllers do something better than we do." I'll grant you that Ice/ probably needs some work as a Dominator set, since three of its signature powers get nothing from Domination, but to say that the -slow, -recharge in Ice/ isn't good enough because Controllers get better numbers for it ties our balance to what Controllers are capable of, which I really don't think is a good idea.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
[ QUOTE ]
Another discussion, the oft bemoaned redraw on Thorns:
[ QUOTE ]
Does Thorny Assault receive something in exchange for the redraw animation?
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit that this doesn't bother me at all, in fact I don't even notice it. Do others find it to be a problem? What exactly would the issue be? How are other sets with redraws handled?
[/ QUOTE ]
Please see this post by BackAlleyBrawler. Redraw does not affect the activation time of any power. It only affects the length of the purely graphical animation played during it. Thorny Assault gains nothing in exchange for its redraw animation, but it doesn't need to since it loses nothing either.
Technically that's not true. The animation time of the power (whether or not the "redraw" plays before the power is used or not) is dictated by the time it takes to perform the redraw animation, since each power involving a redraw has to account for the possibility of a redraw each time the power is used.
Simple demonstration: roll a Broadsword Scrapper and take Hack at level 1. At level 2, take Slash. Walk up to a mob somewhere in Atlas with the sword not drawn, click Hack and queue Slash while the animation's still playing. Let both powers recharge and then click Hack and queue Slash. There's a noticeable delay in the second cycle between when Hack seems to be finished and when Slash's animation starts playing.
So, indirectly, redraw sets pay for the redraw with the casting time of each of their powers. Thorns ends up not suffering badly from that, since all of its animations are pretty quick anyway, but it's really noticeable on my Broadsword/Invuln Scrapper that keeps a constant Parry chain going.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
[ QUOTE ]
Simple demonstration: roll a Broadsword Scrapper and take Hack at level 1. At level 2, take Slash. Walk up to a mob somewhere in Atlas with the sword not drawn, click Hack and queue Slash while the animation's still playing. Let both powers recharge and then click Hack and queue Slash. There's a noticeable delay in the second cycle between when Hack seems to be finished and when Slash's animation starts playing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. I know.
But in these two cases, is there a difference between
a) when you press a hotkey to start Hack and when Slash can first begin?
b) when you press a hotkey to start Hack and when Hack's damage occurs?
A redname recently said the answer to a) is "no". If the answers to both a) and b) are actually "no", then redraw has no effect on damage output whatsoever, either burst or sustained.
If the answer to a) is "yes", then BAB is either wrong or lying, and neither I nor anyone else can meaningfully contribute to this issue without extensive personal testing of the entire Thorny Assault power set starting entirely from scratch.
To be thorough, b) is a different but no less important question, and neither BAB's post nor any thread I've seen on the issue actually addresses it.
[ QUOTE ]
Yes. I know.
But in these two cases, is there a difference between
a) when you press a hotkey to start Hack and when Slash can first begin?
b) when you press a hotkey to start Hack and when Hack's damage occurs?
A redname recently said the answer to a) is "no". If the answers to both a) and b) are actually "no", then redraw has no effect on damage output whatsoever, either burst or sustained.
If the answer to a) is "yes", then BAB is either wrong or lying, and neither I nor anyone else can meaningfully contribute to this issue without extensive personal testing of the entire Thorny Assault power set starting entirely from scratch.
[/ QUOTE ]Ok. I never said or implied that the answer to a) was "no." But the fact is that the animation time for every power in every set which includes a redraw is intrinsically tied to the fact that they have to account for the redraw, and like it or not, animation time has a very real, tangible effect on DPS, even if you're only talking about the time it takes for a power to cycle back up.
In other words, 99% of all arguments that complain about the redraw hurting the DPS of relevant sets are actually complaints about long animation times. Personally, I don't give much consideration to such complaints, but it is important to understand them for what they are.
[ QUOTE ]
To be thorough, b) is a different but no less important question, and neither BAB's post nor any thread I've seen on the issue actually addresses it.
[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, I've kind of wondered that myself, particularly with my Spines/ Scrapper, but if there is a difference, it's such a small fraction of a second that I don't see how it could be reasonably tested, given the window of human reaction time.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
[ QUOTE ]
But the fact is that the animation time for every power in every set which includes a redraw is intrinsically tied to the fact that they have to account for the redraw, and like it or not, animation time has a very real, tangible effect on DPS
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a red herring. Activation times drive DPS for non-redraw sets too.
What I mean is, if Attack A has an activation time of three seconds, and Attack B also has an activation time of three seconds, then both of them could be balanced properly, or neither of them could be, or only one could be, but in no case would it matter why either of them came to have that three-second figure in the first place. It would be utterly irrelevant if, for example, Attack A takes three seconds because your character always goes through three seconds of arm-waving, but Attack B takes three seconds because your character only waves his arms for two but requires some slack in case he needs an extra second to be shown pulling a sword out first.
...unless, of course, the devs originally designed Attack B without time for the sword-draw, then went back and lengthened activation times without adjusting any other figures. I have no evidence they did this. If they did, I'd call it a concern. But only if.
[ QUOTE ]
As to the debuff thing... I'm all for buffing Dominators, piecemeal or wholesale, but I only see two ways of implementing that particular buff, and neither of them seems all that plausible.
[/ QUOTE ]
But that's the beauty of the Issues List, we only have to point the problems out, we don't have to solve them.
[ QUOTE ]
I'll grant you that Ice/ probably needs some work as a Dominator set, since three of its signature powers get nothing from Domination
[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly my sentiment too, it's just a matter of expressing it effectively.
[ QUOTE ]
but to say that the -slow, -recharge in Ice/ isn't good enough because Controllers get better numbers for it ties our balance to what Controllers are capable of, which I really don't think is a good idea.
[/ QUOTE ]
You make a valid point, so how about wording it that the set was originally balanced for Controllers, and that that balance was upset when it was ported over to Dominators.
I've also just learned from City of Data that the -Recharge debuffs in Shiver, Frostbite and Arctic Air are unenhanceable.
Also, realize that increases in recharge debuffs are multiplicatively better. Consider Dominator Shiver's 65% debuff compared to Controller Shiver's 81.3% debuff as applied to a power that recharges in 6 seconds. Assuming I know what I'm talking about, Controller Shiver will increase that recharge to 6s / ( 1 -.813 ) = 32s, whiile Dominator Shiver will only increase it to 6s / ( 1 - 0.65 ) = 17s.
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Next on the list:
[ QUOTE ]
Losing pet in PvP when defeated is problematic due to its long recharge.
[/ QUOTE ]
Any avid PvPers care to voice an opinion on whether or not this is an issue? I tend to think it is, especially since reducing the recharge would definitely not be overpowering. For the record, the current recharge time is 240 seconds. Also, inventions have actually worsened this problem because none of the pet damage sets include recharge enhancement, and they have end reduction enhancements instead which are not nearly as useful in my estimation.
Next on the list:
[ QUOTE ]
Carrion Creepers long text is too long, and is not completely visible in character creation screen.
[/ QUOTE ]
You'll probably be surprised to learn that this item has been the most annoying to me on the entire list. Not because it bothers me in game, but because it's been there for well over a year, and not a single person has bothered to go to the character creation screen and confirm it for me! Interestingly however it has been fixed, so you're all off the hook.
This was reported a long time ago, has anyone else ever heard of similar experiences from an independent source? I tried some testing once and could not reproduce. If no one has, I'll remove it.
[ QUOTE ]
Plant effects remaining on PvP enemies after they die and respawn. (Domination101 May 2nd)
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Break Frees are easily available and significantly affect the performance of our primary sets. There is no counter-inspiration for a Break Free.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bf shouldn't be an issue when pvping. Sure its a minor anoyance, but a dom can easily run someone out of 20 bf within the 1st 6 minutes if not sooner.
MA Arc:
Red Typhoon 4912
Akhdar Blood Arc: 247198
[ QUOTE ]
and not a single person has bothered to go to the character creation screen and confirm it for me! Interestingly however it has been fixed, so you're all off the hook.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Character creation screen"?!? Whazzat? I don't remember the last time I actually read anything on it, outside of the names of the powers. It isn't like it is very helpful.
So, um, yeah. There. 
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
[ QUOTE ]
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Very nicely put.
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
[ QUOTE ]
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]I don't specifically object to that wording, but I think you should know that all -recharge debuffs are unenhanceable. (This is because of the way the enhancement system works; they don't function off of Slow enhancements, they function off of +Recharge enhancements. So, in other words, if the -recharge debuff in Shiver were enhanceable, you'd enhance it by adding Recharge Reduction SO's to it. 
)
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]I don't specifically object to that wording
[/ QUOTE ]
A ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! I'll put on my rose-coloured glasses and read that as "sounds good to me".
[ QUOTE ]
, but I think you should know that all -recharge debuffs are unenhanceable. (This is because of the way the enhancement system works; they don't function off of Slow enhancements, they function off of +Recharge enhancements. So, in other words, if the -recharge debuff in Shiver were enhanceable, you'd enhance it by adding Recharge Reduction SO's to it. )
[/ QUOTE ]
Which explains the powers that mislabel recharge reduction bonuses as recharge debuff bonuses. Of course this would be great, improving the recharge debuff and the recharge rate of the power with one enhancement!
[ QUOTE ]
A ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! I'll put on my rose-coloured glasses and read that as "sounds good to me".
[/ QUOTE ]Well, since my prescription sunglasses are, in fact, rose-colored, that's what I saw when I typed it.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! I'll put on my rose-coloured glasses and read that as "sounds good to me".
[/ QUOTE ]Well, since my prescription sunglasses are, in fact, rose-colored, that's what I saw when I typed it.
[/ QUOTE ]
The glasses, they do nothing! (Wait, actually...)
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]I don't specifically object to that wording
[/ QUOTE ]
A ringing endorsement if I ever heard one! I'll put on my rose-coloured glasses and read that as "sounds good to me".
[ QUOTE ]
, but I think you should know that all -recharge debuffs are unenhanceable. (This is because of the way the enhancement system works; they don't function off of Slow enhancements, they function off of +Recharge enhancements. So, in other words, if the -recharge debuff in Shiver were enhanceable, you'd enhance it by adding Recharge Reduction SO's to it. )
[/ QUOTE ]
Which explains the powers that mislabel recharge reduction bonuses as recharge debuff bonuses. Of course this would be great, improving the recharge debuff and the recharge rate of the power with one enhancement!
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that shiver didn't stack? They should at least do that.
[ QUOTE ]
Could people get behind this wording:
[ QUOTE ]
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that its three fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air, Shiver, and Ice Slick) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination. Secondarily, Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Finally, the recharge debuffs of these powers are unenhanceable, making it even more difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ] Ice Slick is identical for Controllers and Dominators. I'd hesitate to include it since it makes sense for that power to not be affected by Domination--it doesn't come with the sans-domination nerf of other powers built into it.
Something like...
Ice Control is lagging in AoE control effectiveness when compared to the other primaries. The primary cause for this is that two of its fast recharging AoE controls (Arctic Air and Shiver) are not boosted in an appreciable way by Domination, despite the fact that Ice Control's recharge debuffs lost significant effectiveness when they were ported over from Controller sets, thus upsetting the balance of effectiveness between the shared primaries. Since recharge debuffs are unenhanceable, this makes it difficult for Ice Control to catch up.
Would be very easy to get behind, though--the issue with Arctic Air / Shiver coming prenerfed but not being boosted by Domination is probably a significant concern.
Edit:[ QUOTE ]
The list of status effects which Domination protects against is missing knock* and repel.
[/ QUOTE ] Are you referring to a text error or saying those are not protected against? I'm assuming "text error", but I wanted to check.
[ QUOTE ]
According to CoD, Singularity still uses the old 3 second animation times for Crush and Gravity Distortion. Has this been updated yet to the new under 2s animation times?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not really sure how to verify this, Singularity is a little too subtle for that. In the absence of concrete negative effects on game-play, or even in-game verification, I can't add this to the list.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
# Disorient duration too short for Wormhole. (Lemur_Lad September 5th)
[/ QUOTE ]
i just checked in a builder (mid's hero designer) and it list wormhole as lasting only for 2.7 sec ?! O_o
(no other AoE control is under 11.9)
[/ QUOTE ]
It's definitely longer than that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
# Gravity Distortion measuring poorly against other STHs. (Natsuki September 9th)
[/ QUOTE ]
could this be explained to me? not sure i see what's the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
From memory, this refers to the activation time being longer, and the damage being either less or more resisted. Take a look at the stats in City of Data, and check out if you think it's losing out.
[ QUOTE ]
PS: no offense, but does this list actually helped to solves some issues? (traduction, are the dev listening?)
[/ QUOTE ]
Some things have been mysteriously fixed/changed after being discussed here, for instance adding -Fly to Fire Cages, and the reduction in activation time of Mental Blast. However, this list isn't just for the devs, it's for the community as well. There's a reason that there are far more "PSW FTW!" threads than "WTF power X is broken!" threads.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Break Frees are easily available and significantly affect the performance of our primary sets. There is no counter-inspiration for a Break Free.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bf shouldn't be an issue when pvping. Sure its a minor anoyance, but a dom can easily run someone out of 20 bf within the 1st 6 minutes if not sooner.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this issue made it in before the improved Domination gain in PvP. In light of that change, it definitely needs review. How do other people feel about this?
I think one disparity of the redraw (other than the increased animation time, making some players moan and groan), is that most things that have a redraw tend to have an accuracy bonus attatched to them; i.e. Assault Rifle, or Archery.
I'm not suggesting this, because we already get Aim, and have a -def attatched to the /thorn attacks, but I think this might be one of the issues people have.
Always up for teaming with good players, so hit me up: @Deceivius and @Deceivius2