Another issue was fixed in the recent patch, too bad it was a very obscure one.
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Carrion Creepers continues to generate damage ticks on defeated enemies.
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Thanks to Min Min for noticing it.
A long time ago we discussed changing the wording of the AoE hold issue. Let's close this off now. I won't change anything unless I get a few supportive posts, so please cut down on the implicit, silent agreement.
Here's the current wording:
The AoE holds are very disappointing, their short durations, poor accuracy and long recharge mean that they are barely useful unslotted, and at best situationally useful at the cost of 4 or 5 slots.
Here's the proposed new wording:
The AoE holds are very disappointing. They cannot be used in every fight, due to their long recharge times. Since most spawns throughout a mission are of very similar difficulty and make-up, this means that the team must be able to deal with a regular spawn without the benefit of the AoE hold, which makes it an emergency power. However, emergencies are almost always in the form of an additional spawn, and the max targets of 10 means that the AoE hold cannot deal with that for more than a medium sized team. Finally, the poor duration and accuracy mean that they need to be 5 or 6 slotted to even perform this mediocre function. The only other use for them is stacking mag in order to hold bosses in a small team, but Domination is a far superior tool for this job.
I defy you to disagree with this one!
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Bonfire animation is lame. (Liliaceae June 17th)
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All I need is one small voice of agreement. If I change it to "weaksauce" will that garner more support? You know, this might be one of the reasons for its initial unpopularity. A giant pile of burning skulls and bones would have people seething with jealousy!
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Another issue was fixed in the recent patch, too bad it was a very obscure one.
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Carrion Creepers continues to generate damage ticks on defeated enemies.
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Thanks to Min Min for noticing it.
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Actually, I'm still not convinced that this is the case. I thought it might have been fixed, but I could swear that I saw it still happening later on that night.
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Here's the current wording:
The AoE holds are very disappointing, their short durations, poor accuracy and long recharge mean that they are barely useful unslotted, and at best situationally useful at the cost of 4 or 5 slots.
Here's the proposed new wording:
The AoE holds are very disappointing. They cannot be used in every fight, due to their long recharge times. Since most spawns throughout a mission are of very similar difficulty and make-up, this means that the team must be able to deal with a regular spawn without the benefit of the AoE hold, which makes it an emergency power. However, emergencies are almost always in the form of an additional spawn, and the max targets of 10 means that the AoE hold cannot deal with that for more than a medium sized team. Finally, the poor duration and accuracy mean that they need to be 5 or 6 slotted to even perform this mediocre function. The only other use for them is stacking mag in order to hold bosses in a small team, but Domination is a far superior tool for this job.
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My problem with your new wording is the first sentence, specifically "They cannot be used in every fight".
If I were a Dev, I'd stop right there and think "Yeah, we know. We made it that way. Next issue."
Maybe a better approach would be accentuating the triple nerf (bad Acc, short duration, long recharge) as being the problem. Long recharge, but a reasonable duration would be better, or reasoable recharge and short duration, or, at worst, non-penalised accuracy.
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I defy you to disagree with this one!
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Bonfire animation is lame. (Liliaceae June 17th)
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All I need is one small voice of agreement. If I change it to "weaksauce" will that garner more support? You know, this might be one of the reasons for its initial unpopularity. A giant pile of burning skulls and bones would have people seething with jealousy!
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Just to be clear: the cast animation is kind of cool (if a bit long). It's the animation of the placed bonfire that looks poor. The fire graphic you see on burning buildings looks so much better.
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Another issue was fixed in the recent patch, too bad it was a very obscure one.
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Carrion Creepers continues to generate damage ticks on defeated enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks to Min Min for noticing it.
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Actually, I'm still not convinced that this is the case. I thought it might have been fixed, but I could swear that I saw it still happening later on that night.
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I did test it independently. Do you want to make yourself certain?
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My problem with your new wording is the first sentence, specifically "They cannot be used in every fight".
If I were a Dev, I'd stop right there and think "Yeah, we know. We made it that way. Next issue."
Maybe a better approach would be accentuating the triple nerf (bad Acc, short duration, long recharge) as being the problem. Long recharge, but a reasonable duration would be better, or reasoable recharge and short duration, or, at worst, non-penalised accuracy.
[/ QUOTE ]I concur.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
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Maybe a better approach would be accentuating the triple nerf (bad Acc, short duration, long recharge) as being the problem.
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*AHEM* Quadruple nerf, you forgot about the unexplained 10 target cap. And of the four this is the one I'd like to see fixed first.
Princess Grace - MA/Inv scrapper
Solana - Mind/Energy dominator
Lyonette - Kat/SR scrapper
Agree with Princess Grace on the target cap. It's an added problem, since it cuts down even on the panic button function of an AOE hold.
Also agree re/ the rephrasing of "can't be used every fight;" I think the issue isn't so much that the AOE Holds have a long recharge as much as that the recharge is now SO long as to make it a one-per-mission event.
And yes, it's more prone to get ignored by The Powers That Be if it's even remotely suggestive of the old "we want our I-5 AOEs back" thing.
What issue was that, anyways?
It is critical that you pay attention at this time.
Gaming in Limited Times
Guide to Plant/Ice Doms
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Another issue was fixed in the recent patch, too bad it was a very obscure one.
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Carrion Creepers continues to generate damage ticks on defeated enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks to Min Min for noticing it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I'm still not convinced that this is the case. I thought it might have been fixed, but I could swear that I saw it still happening later on that night.
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I did test it independently. Do you want to make yourself certain?
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Yeah, I've made myself certain. It's definitely not fixed.
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Another issue was fixed in the recent patch, too bad it was a very obscure one.
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Carrion Creepers continues to generate damage ticks on defeated enemies.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks to Min Min for noticing it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I'm still not convinced that this is the case. I thought it might have been fixed, but I could swear that I saw it still happening later on that night.
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I did test it independently. Do you want to make yourself certain?
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Yeah, I've made myself certain. It's definitely not fixed.
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I wonder if it's a Rikti-specific thing now. There was another bug in patch notes about Warshade powers not working on them when they were dead, and their reticles had/have a nasty habit of not falling down.
I've been thinking about exactly what is wrong with the AoE holds, it's a difficult thing to describe. Taking your advice to heart, (and avoiding the word "nerf" because nothing else says "we want our I5 AoE Holds back more than that), I've come up with this. On the one hand I think it's pretty important, on the other I wonder if we've gone too far into the wilderness with this one:
The AoE holds are very disappointing. There is nothing for which they are particularly well suited, instead there are several things they can do poorly. What's worse is that they must be heavily enhanced to achieve this mediocrity. The structure of missions, and consistency of spawn sizes means that most fights are against a single spawn, with the occasional 2 or 3 spawn fight. As an emergency power in a multi-spawn fight, they fall flat because their target cap is too low to hit a full spawn and their duration is too short to give the team time to deal with the situation. Their place is clearly not every-spawn control, since there are other powers for that purpose, and that would be overpowered. Naturally there are other possible uses, none of which are particularly impressive: they can be stacked with the single target hold to deal with bosses, but of course Domination is far superior for that; multiple Dominators can alternate them to get every spawn control, which would be an odd tactic given that there would be several other control options available.
Can anyone provide any corroboration for this one:
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Gravity Distortion, GDF and Wormhole allowing attacks before taking effect. Under what conditions does this affect these, but not other mez powers. (Gail_Sieht June 19th)
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If memory serves I tried it out, and the holds didn't seem to behave differently from other holds.
An interesting one:
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Some assault sets working better with Domination than others. (Lemur_Lad July 4th)
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Sounds like a reference to Energy Assault. Since I think Psychic Shockwave is the only other power from the secondary that is boosted by Domination.
This is probably connected to the fact that Total Focus is mag 3 instead of 4. Otherwise we could one shot disorient EBs under Domination.
My feeling is that it's generally fine. The difference is not that great, during Domination most things will be controlled anyway, and /Energy needs something.
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Telekinesis pushes enemies partly through walls rather than only against them. (The_Raz July 12th)
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Could I get a couple of agreements that this is an issue? In my experience it can make things hard to figure out.
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Can anyone provide any corroboration for this one:
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Gravity Distortion, GDF and Wormhole allowing attacks before taking effect. Under what conditions does this affect these, but not other mez powers. (Gail_Sieht June 19th)
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only WH give a "free shot" to the foe.GDF can give this impression to if you use it without any range enhancement . as the animation time is long (and that the hold takes place at the end of the animation), the foe can simply see you and act if they have quick attack.
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An interesting one:
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Some assault sets working better with Domination than others. (Lemur_Lad July 4th)
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Sounds like a reference to Energy Assault. Since I think Psychic Shockwave is the only other power from the secondary that is boosted by Domination.
This is probably connected to the fact that Total Focus is mag 3 instead of 4. Otherwise we could one shot disorient EBs under Domination.
My feeling is that it's generally fine. The difference is not that great, during Domination most things will be controlled anyway, and /Energy needs something.
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energie is the only secondary that gives you another "hold" in bonesmasher and total focus.
while in domination you actually have 3 STH(well two are stun but...) and no other dominator can argue having that.
i personnally think that energie is what all secondary should be. (it still lack damage and i would not mind to see total focus changed into a cone)
i mean controller can hold their own with few control as they have heal/debuff as back up
but for dominator i feel that we jsut lack of control.
for exemple the -def in thorn is cool. but as you have aim in it it become almost useless why not having a -res instead?.
when i face a boss or a blaster i'd rather having a will domination like effect for exemple. or a dark pit.
i think that our assault set should be rethinked tolooks like defender secondary.
we have the lowest life and no damage mitigation. in that way we are a blaster BUT blaster are balanced by the fact that they have very high burst damage potential (best defense is attack) what we obviously lack even under domination.
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An interesting one:
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Some assault sets working better with Domination than others. (Lemur_Lad July 4th)
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Sounds like a reference to Energy Assault. Since I think Psychic Shockwave is the only other power from the secondary that is boosted by Domination.
This is probably connected to the fact that Total Focus is mag 3 instead of 4. Otherwise we could one shot disorient EBs under Domination.
My feeling is that it's generally fine. The difference is not that great, during Domination most things will be controlled anyway, and /Energy needs something.
[/ QUOTE ]I'd be hesitant to speculate what Lemur meant, there, but as far as Total Focus goes, I really want that extra point of Mag. I don't mind if the Devs only want us to have Mag 6 in Domination; if that's their concern they can just make it Mag 4 out of Dom, and Mag 6 when Dom's up.
Alt-itis stole my soul!
The Annual Paragon City Gauntlet Marathon - Arc ID: 352887 (feedback appreciated)
Current Project: nothing specific, just general badge hunting right now.
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GDF can give this impression to if you use it without any range enhancement . as the animation time is long (and that the hold takes place at the end of the animation), the foe can simply see you and act if they have quick attack.
[/ QUOTE ]Since range enhancements don't affect animation time, I'd say that's a preliminary confirmation that GDF does this. If I have to slot range enhancements to avoid attacks coming after I activate a hold, then it's not the case that the power doesn't allow return fire before taking effect but instead that I'm just "slightly" out of range of my foe's shorter-ranged attacks and they don't get time to both run into range of me AND attack before they get controlled by my slowly-animating power.
(...snip speculation about Spore Burst - disproved it myself w/ some testing...)
Slightly Off-Topic, but useful for testing and comparison: What's the alert/agro range for foes, barring attacks? Do they notice you at 60'? 70'? 80'? How close do you have to get before they attack/see you?
not after but before the hold takes place.
like total focus animation time allow the mob to fight back the time you need to actually strike it.
i know range doesn't affact animation time.
but if you are not far enough then you are spotted. it's the same for any other power in the game.
ET is fast enough to be sure that the power takes effect before the mob can actually react, our hold aren't that fast.
when a consigliere launch a propel or when a Lost boss trigger dominate on me i have generally the time to trigger a power even if i know that i will be held right after.
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when a consigliere launch a propel or when a Lost boss trigger dominate on me i have generally the time to trigger a power even if i know that i will be held right after.
[/ QUOTE ]Ah! I understand, I think.
The cast time for Strangler is longer than GD, and I know I've been shot with pistols (a fairly quick attack) before the hold kicks in on several occasions. I'm not sure it's a bug if powers aren't being interrupted by holds that are triggered after they start but which have not finished animating by the time the foe's attack is computed. (At least, for powers not marked as "interruptible".)
i think you got my point ; )
I've been playing Gravity/ a bit recently, and have to say that I don't notice any significant difference between its holds and those of other sets for aggro. I regularly use GDF as an opener, and don't suffer return fire from hit enemies. It's nothing like Wormhole which is well acknowledged to have this problem.
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However, my inclination is not to include this in the list, because I don't think reducing it will really help /Energy's overall problems. I'd rather /Energy were looked at as a whole, but last time it was discussed we couldn't achieve consensus.
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But putting aside the question of AOEs, that *IS* the problem and difference between the "poor" single target damage of energy assault and the "good" single target damage of ice.
snip
Now with *ONLY* changing bolt, blast, and burst to be a 1.5 second activation (bonesmasher already is but leave TF and snipe) you get:
It evens out the DPS complaints very very nicely.
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I was thinking about just Power Bolt there, but saying all three have animations that are too long sounds good to me. Do people agree to add an issue saying all three energy blasts have animations that are too long?
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you are talking 2-4 DPS in any situation so not a big deal in any event.
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I prefer to look at it as percentages, so 3 DPS is 10%, which IMO is worth complaining over.
BTW, love your use of quotes "poor" and "good".