[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
* Not every level has all four pools (early levels don't have Pool D, the Trial pool)
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, in THAT case...
... why not just remove the Story Arc pool from levels 45-50, and assign all the relevant rewards to trials and TFs, since level 45-50 characters can do ANY trial or TF from anywhere in the game?
[/ QUOTE ]
very nice - simplest possible solution.
OR, another idea - make that set 45-49, and make another set that's 50 only that has just Trial/Taskforce/Enemy pools and not Story Arc pool. Equivalent in power to the 45-49s, just another one level. Or move all existing ones up slightly (30-36, 36-42, 42-49, 50 only).
That way the folks who do story arcs still get that chance for a bonus good item.
OR - turn the task force/ story arc pools into one pool and give one task force / story arc item for either completion. 3 pools still gives motivation to do the longer things.
[ QUOTE ]
Dr Brainstorm,
I happen to like the idea that story arcs will have a place in the Invention System. Since the release of Police Band radio missions, I have seen fewer and fewer PuGs running story arcs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but why would that PuG run your story arcs?
I do not ask them to run my story arc. I just find it sad that fewer and fewer people are running any story arcs.
Also, if I team with people in the same level range as me, it is fairly easy to run missions shared by multiple members of team. Each teammate has the option of choosing to accept completion of their shared missions upon completion of 1 single version of it. This is the manner in which many people have played CoV since launch. This option has been available to CoH since i8 released. Some people take advantage of the option. Some people don't.
Quite simply, if I dislike what my PuG is doing, I can always leave. I do this when it becomes perceived by me that my goals differ from the group's (IE, only running the highest level teammate's missions,only running paper/radio missions in an attempt to capitalize on easily obtained mission bonuses, etc) These are things I don't enjoy, so I don't participate.
Cooperative story arch completion is similar to running a tf/sf/trial. Form a team looking to run the Frost Fire Arc > Align the team's missions > Get a reward for everyone. It is even simpler than the standard tf/sf/trial in the fact that members may leave/join at any point without disrupting the process. Group breaks up > replace lost members with interested parties. New person wants to join > invite freely if space is available. In this way, even the unsoloable build can complete arcs.
We, the players already have the tools in place to cooperatively complete story arcs. Placing Pool B recipes as the rewards for doing so provides us with incentive.
Given how borked the City of Heroes version of mission sharing is, and how long many of the Heroes arcs are, that's not particularly surprising.
I dunno about you, but it's fairly uncommon for me to run into people who rolled the same 1/4 that I did and have the same contact, and are at the same mission in a mission string that can be more than twenty missions long. I know that, outside of Scanner missions and the Special Event missions, I've never had a chance to use Mission Completion. Even in the Hollows.
Maybe I just haven't had much luck with PuGs.
[ QUOTE ]
I do not ask them to run my story arc. I just find it sad that fewer and fewer people are running any story arcs.
Also, if I team with people in the same level range as me, it is fairly easy to run missions shared by multiple members of team. Each teammate has the option of choosing to accept completion of their shared missions upon completion of 1 single version of it. This is the manner in which many people have played CoV since launch. This option has been available to CoH since i8 released. Some people take advantage of the option. Some people don't.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope. My SG have actively been trying to do mission sharing in CoH, and its virtually impossible to do, due to:
<ul type="square">[*]Contacts giving out missions in random order. Makes synchronizing for those contacts in a team larger than three pure <hot-place-below>.[*]The order the contacts are given to you depends on your origin. E.g. after completing a SafeGuard you are given different contact options, so not all members of the team can even get the same contacts to continue with.[*]You dont stay synchronized by level. Post 30, you SK a lot if you play within a smallish SG. Which means the side-kicked character is out of luck as far as sharing and arc competions go.[*]Same with PuGs: They also SK a lot, with the same problem for the SK:ed character.[/list]
It is easier to share CoV arcs. There random order missions are simply frustrating enough to make people antsy and irritatated, and you dont have the problem recieving the same contacts. You still have to make dedicated groups that don't stray in level to play with your friends though, as sidekicking is still troublesome.
I actually have had significant luck in cooping through the Hollows, Faultline (especially Faultine), Striga, Croatoa, and other zones. But, I look for groups that share my interests and rarely accept blind invites. I have done so via PuGs and a sizable coalition and use of global chat channels.
When life and games throw new things at us, we must adapt, move on, or stagnate.
It is highly possible that the idea for Pool B is partly based on Content players complaints against Power Level players. Providing added incentive for story arc completion adds incentive for cooperative play while furthering active discouragement of PLing.
Yes, Tuft_ it can be frustrating at times. Cooperative play definitely discourages SKs. The longer the arc, the more opportunity for skewed mission order.
In this case, the next suggestion for the devs could be to redress Older story arcs. Unfortunately, the devs are learning to provide better content even as we learn to adapt to their ever changing view of the game. Posi has mentioned that he would like to rewrite the Positron TF, but he fears long term subscribers feeling cheated with a perceived cheapened badge. If it is possible to rewrite an entire TF, it is possible to rewrite some of the more tedious story arcs. It should be possible for the devs to somehow tag arcs to play in a set order, for example. These are things to ask the devs to look into. Compromise demands give and take on both ends.
I outlevel contacts just doing normal stuff, and since I tend to roleplay, I dont' care to reroll characters just to pick up some recipe I didn't have before.
I also tend to run controllers and defenders...and end up doing other people's missions rather than my own. Unless I solo a majority of the time that I play that character...
However, I dont' mind storyarcs getting a reward like this...If I can go back and get the reward, either by exemping down with friends, or with somehting like the flashback system... that seems to have been shelved. I'd like the flashback system simply because it gives me the time to explore and find all those story arcs. Some of them require unlocked contacts, that I didn't have time to find because I wasn't doing my missions. =)
Shae Firewarder
[ QUOTE ]
Random suggestion via Quick Reply: Treat Mayhem/Safeguard mission completion the same as Plot Arc completion for Recipie/Salvage drops.
- Jock Tamson, Who is full of ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Story Arcs, you can not currently exempt down do to Mayhems/Safeguards as the mission holder. If I, as a level 50, want the Taunt bonus that comes only from a level 30 IO Set and go to Bricks/St.Martial, the newspaper/scanner won't give me missions. And so, they'd have to implement Flashback for Mayhems/Safeguard... to much coding in too short a time. Not an option.
In fact, speaking of coding....
Any solution will have to be a database adjustment solution in order for the solution to be out in time for I9. Any proposal that requires game coding is off the table. So, everyone, please stop dreaming up new content or mechanics... it ain't going to happen.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
I actually have had significant luck in cooping through the Hollows, Faultline (especially Faultine), Striga, Croatoa, and other zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nature of the ZONE, not the game. Try doing the same outside those zones, in COH. It won't be as easy.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Random suggestion via Quick Reply: Treat Mayhem/Safeguard mission completion the same as Plot Arc completion for Recipie/Salvage drops.
- Jock Tamson, Who is full of ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like Story Arcs, you can not currently exempt down do to Mayhems/Safeguards as the mission holder. If I, as a level 50, want the Taunt bonus that comes only from a level 30 IO Set and go to Bricks/St.Martial, the newspaper/scanner won't give me missions. And so, they'd have to implement Flashback for Mayhems/Safeguard... to much coding in too short a time. Not an option.
In fact, speaking of coding....
Any solution will have to be a database adjustment solution in order for the solution to be out in time for I9. Any proposal that requires game coding is off the table. So, everyone, please stop dreaming up new content or mechanics... it ain't going to happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
Simple. DON'T PUT A LOWER-LEVEL LIMIT ON MAYHEM AND SAFEGUARD MISSION RECIPE DROPS.
You're level 38, doing a 35-40 Mayhem? The drop could be ANY Rare recipe in Pool B, from level 10 to 40.
Sure, the odds of gettign EXATLY what you want are lower. But the odds of getting something you have otherwise outlevelled are infinitely higher.
Even [1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000] is going to be infinitely better than no chance at all - even [0:2]. Always.
[ QUOTE ]
Random suggestion via Quick Reply: Treat Mayhem/Safeguard mission completion the same as Plot Arc completion for Recipie/Salvage drops.
- Jock Tamson, Who is full of ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
I suggest actually tying it to the safeguard/mayhem submissions, since the primary mission already gives a special reward itself. Since there are several sub missions per safeguard/mayhem I'd give each of them a reduced chance of dropping compared to story arcs (say a 1/3 chance or something).
Enjoying every AT in the game.
Remember the Golden Rule: Skill > Build
Leader of the True Blues on Liberty
[ QUOTE ]
Even [1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000] is going to be infinitely better than no chance at all - even [0:2]. Always.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that you did have a 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of getting story arc awards from bad guys, it's just that story arcs give a guaranteed drop from the rare pool.
Enjoying every AT in the game.
Remember the Golden Rule: Skill > Build
Leader of the True Blues on Liberty
My biggest concern is one other people have brought up, and that is the fact arcs can not be repeated. The hole this will create in the economy is going to greatly skew trading. Unless people make character for the sole purpose of getting and doing arcs just to give/trade the recipe then re-roll the charater. There is already a problem of people not playing much into the late 30's-40's because of the 'grind'. Putting together a complete set of recipes will be an option only for a small amount of people with enormous resources to draw on. At least, that is my fear.
Having Safegaurd/Mayhem missions have a chance on completion of dropping a Story Arc recipe would prevent, hopefully, this from happening, again as others have said.
=. .=
I would be extremely surprised if the non-repeatable nature of story arcs was not the foundation for the idea of Pool B in the first place. Non-repeatable content is highly dificult to farm. Even the work around of creating alt factories will take such a serious time sink that the "rabid PLer" will be unable to commit the time, especially since the low level IOs will be slightly more useful than a generic training enhancement.
Look at the posted sets. Can you imagine the anguish a PLer will suffer trying to rationalize having only 1 or 2 damage enhancements in a power just to pick up a 1% HP increase? Or double slot flight with end redux? The sets seem designed to entice and torment. In a world where people don't train charcters until they reach level 50 in order to have access to accolades regrdless of the level to which they exemp, this system is going to have shockwaves on PLing that reach to the moon. In order to gain access to the story arc awards, players will have to train up to a level where the contact will speak to them in order to grant the missions. I can't wait to see what brilliant strategies the PL crowd will counter with.
Allowing such an easy out as the infinitely repeatable Safeguard/Mayhem missions seems extremely unlikely to me. This hands rare loot right to the PL crowd for doing exactly what they are currently doing, which the devs have been fighting for over a year.
Yes I pointed out the easy zones to align cooperative play in b4. It can be done in just about any zone, though. I have done it in every zone that provides missions on both sides of the game. Some zones are more difficult, but challenge adds to the feeling of success. That is a mantra the devs seem to subscribe to. They don't appear to want rare items to be overly easy to obtain. It possibly cheapens them.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Random suggestion via Quick Reply: Treat Mayhem/Safeguard mission completion the same as Plot Arc completion for Recipie/Salvage drops.
- Jock Tamson, Who is full of ideas.
[/ QUOTE ]
I suggest actually tying it to the safeguard/mayhem submissions, since the primary mission already gives a special reward itself. Since there are several sub missions per safeguard/mayhem I'd give each of them a reduced chance of dropping compared to story arcs (say a 1/3 chance or something).
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought of that. In particular I thought it would be a good additon to the "save/rob the Jewlery Store" mission . . . but the run to the mission and the glowie in the rare loot side mission could be u-g-l-y, and I think it would steal too much thunder from the Bank Heist that is supposed to be the center piece of the missions.
How about mixing "Recover the $Rare_Salvage" missions into the Paper/Police Band missions at an appropriate percentage?
That would take more coding work than the original suggestion though.
- Jock Tamson, Idea Guy
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even [1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000] is going to be infinitely better than no chance at all - even [0:2]. Always.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that you did have a 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance of getting story arc awards from bad guys, it's just that story arcs give a guaranteed drop from the rare pool.
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
Current design is like this:
[*] Pool A - Defeating enemies, and by no other means[*] Pool B - Completing Story Arcs, and by no other means[*] Pool C - Completing Task Forces / Strike Forces, and by no other means[*] Pool D - Completing Trials, and by no other means
There is no overlap between any of the four pools. Pool A contains the great majority of all possible drops - so MOST things can come from just defeating enemies.
But there will be a few things that ONLY come from Story Arcs ... a few more that ONLY come from Strike Forces and Task Forces ... and a few more that ONLY come from Trials.
Pools A, C, and D are fine - it's all fully-repeatable content.
Pool B, however, is nonrepeatable. If you've already done it when I9 goes live, then you have LOST that chance to get whatyou want. If you've done ALL of the story arcs you're able to access, you will NEVER get anything from Pool B. EVER ...!
[ QUOTE ]
Pool B, however, is nonrepeatable. If you've already done it when I9 goes live, then you have LOST that chance to get whatyou want. If you've done ALL of the story arcs you're able to access, you will NEVER get anything from Pool B. EVER ...!
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you buy it at the Consignment House...
I am almost certain the Developers considered that the solution to the issue you raise.
They may be waiting to see how the Consignment House does on Test before deciding if any change is necessary here.
Personally I think that those who know the value of what they have won't take it to the Consignment House, and those that don't won't know to.
Time will tell...
- Jock Tamson, Who is nothing if not patient.
[ QUOTE ]
Look at the posted sets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, let's. I'll pick Positron's Blast, a Ranged-attack set keyed to levels 20-53. We'll go with level 50 IOs in all cases; all are Schedule A effects (except the PROC, of course), so all have a base value of 38.29% before
[*] Acc/Dam ... dual-IO modifier is 0.625, so this gives roughly +24% to eachg[*] Dam/End ... same, roughly +24% to each[*] Dam/Rech ... same, roughly +24% to each[*] Dam/Range ... same, roughly +24% to each[*] Dam/Acc/End ... triple-IO modifier is 0.500, so, roughly +19% each.[*] Chance for Energy damage ... a PROC, whose numbers are as yet unknown.
This totals to ... well, let's see ... Accuracy gets (24%, 19%) ... 43%; Damage gets (24%, 24%, 24%, 24%, 19%) ... 111%, certainly getting hit by ED, so call it 100%; Endurance is discounted by (24%, 19%) ... 43%; Range is boosted by 24%; Recharge is improved by 24%.
So, +43% accuracy, -43% Endurance cost, +100%-ish Damage, +24% range, +24% Recharge speed, and a PROC to cause extra Energy damage.
That comes to ... 1.3 SOs of Accuracy, 1.3 SOs of Endurance Reduction, 3.5 SOs worth of Damage, 0.7 SOs worth of Range, and 0.7 SOs worth of Recharge. Oh, and that PROC, still.
That's about 8.5SO's wqorth of "stuff" ... and we haven't looked at the set bonusses yet! Those will boost overall accuracy (for ALL attacks, not just that one!), Endurance recovery, and overall Recharge time (for all powers, of all sorts). Oh, also, you'll get a small amount of resistance to Fire, Cold, and Toxic damage.
Even if those set bonusses are only 10% ... heck, if the Accuracy and Recharge are each only 5%, instead ... 10% Recovery, 10% resistance to Fire/Cold/Toxic, and 5% universal boost to Accuracy and Recharge?
SIGN. ME. UP ...!!!
Put stuff like that into enough of your sets, and your Accuracy should be through the roof. Not to mention Recharge and Recovery!
[ QUOTE ]
Can you imagine the anguish a PLer will suffer trying to rationalize having only 1 or 2 damage enhancements in a power just to pick up a 1% HP increase? Or double slot flight with end redux?
[/ QUOTE ]
Let's look at those Flight Sets, next, yes? I suspect PvPers will prefer Freebird, of the two.
It's three enhancements, all single purpose. So ... ~38% Flight speed, ~38% Endurance Reduction, and Stelath - granted, only about 40 feet in PvP, but that's in addition to any stealth-producing toggles you're running. And then there's the set bonusses - more hitpoints, and faster regeneration. Throw another IO in there for Flight Speed, and you should be near the cap anyway.
Sounds fine to ME, really!
[ QUOTE ]
[...] this system is going to have shockwaves on PLing that reach to the moon.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good. PLing sucks, generally speaking. It's one thing to PL in order to skip stuff you've done a zillion times already, but to PL solely for PvP ...? Meh.
[ QUOTE ]
I can't wait to see what brilliant strategies the PL crowd will counter with.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's called Wentworths. Heroside, anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pool B, however, is nonrepeatable. If you've already done it when I9 goes live, then you have LOST that chance to get whatyou want. If you've done ALL of the story arcs you're able to access, you will NEVER get anything from Pool B. EVER ...!
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you buy it at the Consignment House...
I am almost certain the Developers considered that the solution to the issue you raise.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you assume that characters of all levels above 15-ish have an infinite supply of INF, sure, that works. But, my MM-32 has already outlevelled a Pet-specific set that I very much want for him. The whole set. And he's perpetually broke, Infamy-wise: he hasn't hit the "big money" levels quite yet.
And meanwhile, I've been compelled, yes compelled, to stop playing COH until I9 goes live - because every story arc I complete or outlevel, is yet ANOTHER draw at Pool B that I can't have.
As a result, I've unsubscribed - after all, why pay for a game you're not playing?
Now tell me how that's a good scenario for Cryptic to have designed the game to produce?
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I've read the majority of that monster thread I created titled "Drops".
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds great. I'm very excited about the system.
[ QUOTE ]
Any solution will have to be a database adjustment solution in order for the solution to be out in time for I9. Any proposal that requires game coding is off the table. So, everyone, please stop dreaming up new content or mechanics... it ain't going to happen.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahem.
If they don't get it right the first time, when are they going to find the time to fix it later?
It took less than 5 minutes after looking at the initial announcement for me to not only figure out how it worked, but how it would affect 17 of my characters (any character 14+). The fact that the development blinders that resemble Joo Janta 2000 Peril-Sensitive Chromatic Sunglasses isn't my fault. Unfortunately for Cryptic, closing their eyes, holding their hands over their ears, and singing, "lalalalalala" loudly isn't a sound development strategy.
Seeing that I've learned what the developer's style seems to be, announcements like the first one make it easy to predict that the worst possible outcome is the most likely.
If they want to get it right, they can take the time to code a proper mechanic. If they are that dedicated to the existing code, and the code isn't flexable enough to change from awarding at story arc completion to awarding for something else like mayhem/safeguard, then that is a prime example of bad code. Code that should be re-done in any event.
I think that saying "put it out as is and fix later" is a recipe for disaster.
Just copying and pasting the two announcements to my sg's forums lead to even more outrage. Given that they rarely go to the test server, I could see the group I team with quitting en masse over the announced changes if it hit the live servers. That's about 25-30 accounts (multiple accounts for some people).
So, either they come up with a new mechanic, or they get rid of Pool B entirely. Given that they want to stay with Pool B, they better start coming up with a new mechanic.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
[ QUOTE ]
Much better system but think there should be a very small chance for to get stuff from other pools. Something like
Doing Pool A stuff 97% of the time you get Pool A; 1% from Pool B; 1% from Pool C; 1% from Pool D
Doing Pool B stuff 97% of the time you get Pool B; 1% from Pool A; 1% from Pool C; 1% from Pool D
Doing Pool C stuff 97% of the time you get Pool C; 1% from Pool A; 1% from Pool B; 1% from Pool D
Doing Pool D stuff 97% of the time you get Pool D; 1% from Pool A; 1% from Pool B; 1% from Pool C
This way you could always have a small chance to get something without having you "Must do X to get Y'.
[/ QUOTE ]
Instead, how about Spreading the Story Arc into the Defeat Pool. Think about it, 95% Chance for Normal Defeat pool item, 5% Chance for Story Arc Pool. Leave the others 100%. The reasoning being that you defeat *hundreds* if not thousands of Mobs during a characters lifetime. Having that small % Chance *along* with the guranteed drop from story Arcs keeps the Flavor, but still gives 50s a reason to sweep Missions or assist others: For the 5% chance. Or if its too small raise it, to maybe 10%.
The problem is that the effectiveness of the Story Arc Invention drops were probably designed around them being non-repeatable content. Since only get one chance at each one, they are probably not one-shot recipes.
Any solution that makes them infinitely accessible will probably also get them pre-nerfed into one-shot recipes and/or toned down in power.
This thought makes giving out these drops based on souvenirs more attractive. But that still doesn't address the disparity betweeen the number of Story Arcs villains have versus Heroes.
It really sounds like we need to just wait for B drops until content can be written specifically to give them out in a way that's fair to both old-timers and new, villains and heroes alike.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
[ QUOTE ]
Please reconsider offering Recipes with GM defeats. Our cities are over run by extremely dangerous critters that are ignored by the general super powered community due to a lack of perceived reward for the high level of risk. The dev team might not wish players to farm GMs, but I doubt they want us to blatantly ignore them. As it stands, it is difficult to build a team to fight non-Croatoa GMs (Croatoans being required for a useful accolade) and almost impossible to get a team to take down Paladin (not even a badge for defeating the GM, since the badge is only for preventing his being built in the first place). I would suggest that each member of a team that receives credit for a GM should also receive a guaranteed drop of a common recipe (being from the defeat mobs pool not the story arc/tf/trial pools). This would limit the farming of "easy" rare loot but still reward players for taking the time to persuade Luska to give IP a slight break. People have been requesting some reason to actually fight GMs ever since the AV/GM regen buff. Some mad scientist made these beasties more dangerous, its about time for another mad scientist to figure out a recipe for Luska a'la mode. (tastes great and puts hair on your chest)
[/ QUOTE ]
I can get behind this, except maybe in the case of the Paladin. Sometimes it is hard to gather people to stop the construction because they are mis-informed that the badge is for a built Paladin.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters