Guide to Misconceptions of Zone PvP

Guide created by Dubya Updated in April 07

Guide to Misconceptions of zone PvP

I have been PvP’n for quite awhile, since my first controller hit 15 when I first started this game. Throughout my time in zones and reading the forums I have come across countless comments about certain things that I have come to simply find as being misconceptions IMO. This is based off of my personal experiences from Bloody Bay to Warburg. I am leaving RV and the Arena out as the majority of PvP I have done is from BB to WB. While some of my views may be vastly different for Arena battles or RV, they are all geared towards the zones mentioned and I am completely aware of the differences in the arena/RV.




Common misconceptions about powers/tactics in zone PvP from Bloody Bay to Warburg

1. Smashing/lethal is the most resisted damage type

Decent Smashing/Lethal resists in these zones:

Tankers: Invuln/fire armor/stone armor
Scrappers: Dark armor/Invuln/
Brutes: Every secondary except Energy Aura
Stalkers: Dark armor
Defenders: Sonic/Kinetics*
Controllers: Sonic/Kinetics*
Corruptors: Sonic/Kinetics*/Thermal
Peacebringers
Warshades

*From the Kinetics line, Increase Density has good smashing resistance

Granted, everyone has access to Tough out of the fighting pool, but how many ppl actually take it that don’t already have some type of s/l resist to begin with. Don’t shelve those claws or martial artists or jump on the em/ bandwagon without thinking about this first. I’ve run a claws stalker and ma/ scrapper quite successfully in pvp and have seen many do the same. S/L isn’t “as” resisted as most believe. Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers have the highest numbers available but do a few runs through a zone like SC on a busy night and count how many doms/trollers/corr’s/MM’s/def’s/stalkers/blasters are outnumbering those invuln scrappers/tanks which are not very common to begin with. Add to that /regen, which is probably the most common scrapper you will see. They can also get s/l resist in Resilience and Tough which gives some decent resistance, the majority of them though do not have this combo by SC lvl, and many still don’t in WB.


2. Flight is horrible for PvP

With all the –fly powers out there that I thought of originally and the many additions added by others here, I’ve decided to change this argument around somewhat. I still stand by my experiences with certain AT’s that I’ve used with just fly as a travel power and did so successfully, yet I will submit that it isn’t the most optimal and more than likely detrimental to certain AT’s and/or combinations having fly and fly alone. That being said, flight+teleport is a powerful travel combination for many if used correctly. That is two travel powers to take but look at how many people take super jump+super speed.

The problem with this combo is catching your target to finish them off, so it may not be viable for a melee AT like a scrapper/tank/brute, but stalkers can make very good use of this combo. Also, if any of the prevalent –fly powers do connect, teleport is a 100% sure fire way to escape outside of being held/slept/stunned. If you rely on ranged attacks like a corruptor/blaster/etc, this combo can be quite effective, and for stalkers, it makes for a fast approach/getaway.


3. TP Foe

Droning:

My views on this have changed much since I was first droned. At first my initial reactions were much the same as most of the casual pvp population in thinking this was an unfair/waste of time/weak strategy. After learning how to counter it (ie: not be there, pop oranges, get a kin), it became more of a, “well, they can do it all they want but I’m not doin it.”. After reading an article on gaming and the sense of “honor” that people bring into the gaming environment out of real life, I have come to the conclusion that outside of exploiting holes in the geometry of the environment or bugs in the game that give you the ability to attack/defeat your opponent without consequence, all is fair. Base camping is a problem on both sides that can easily be dealt with with a couple of drones. The opposition will either move out of range or continue to be droned until they do. This subject can cause much flak in broadcast and in the forums as everyone has their own opinion, however, take it for what it’s worth and don’t be afraid to use the tools available to you to better your chances at survival/victory.

TP Foe into traps:

A simple and very effective strategy employed by many /device blasters, and /traps corr’s/MM’s, I have found this to be very effective on many different AT’s. TP’n someone into a trap doesn’t necessarily mean you need caltrops and mines laid out. For instance, my ill/kin will TP into some of the same areas /dev blasters do, like Cargo containers, under bridges, fire escapes on the sides of buildings, etc. It works, it’s legit, try it out. I did the same with my brute for awhile. TP foe underneath something with stun/TF queued up for some easier fights. Control the situation and determine how best to deal with your target. Fight on your terms, where you want to fight, when you want to fight.


4. Dueling in zones

Happens all the time. Are people allowed to actually do this? Sure. Are the rules of no interruptions carved in stone for all in the zone? Not a chance. Sure, you can whine and tell them to take it to the arena, or you could just stand there and see who wins then take out the winner, or how about taking both of them out when they’re low on health. Then again, you could wait it out and leave when its over. It’s a zone, anything goes. Don’t be afraid to jump in and take out your bounty in a SC fight club, and if your in the fight, don’t be upset if someone comes out and drops you/your opponent.


5. Kill stealing

We’ve all heard the term at the low lvl’s, and we all should know by now how the xp per damage done works. This however is not true for pvp. Unless you’re on a team together, it’s whoever gets that last shot in that gets the rep/bounty. If this irritates you when you have been working that particularly annoying opponent down to almost nothing and just waiting for that finishing attack to recharge and someone hops down and takes em out before you with one shot, do it to them. Anything goes, so throw that person on follow and watch them fight, soon as their target is down enough, through out your heavy hitter and take the rep for yourself. They will either A: become fed up with it and leave/stop fighting, or B: send you nasty tells about how you’re cheating/kill stealing. To which you can simply continue or go back to your own hunting, whatever floats your boat. I have had ppl follow me around purposely using this for easy kills and the only way I have found to stop it is to just hang out for a bit and wait for them to move on to someone else or log. How you deal with it is up to you. While this may not be a bug many do not agree with how it works and neither do I. But until it changes or if at all, its not cheating, just annoying.


6. Ganking

Many people have a different definition of what constitutes a gank. The most common being a team of ppl defeating 1 person. This would probably be my definition of it, if I believed in it. First off, a well played team will usually mop solo players with ease. Many have come across the “turtle” formation of a team of villains/heroes all huddled up together and either tp foe’n or jumping the opposition as it comes in range. I have been in these and on the outside facing them on both sides many times. Extremely effective strategy and quite legit, no one ganked you. If you encounter this type of opposition and engage them or get too close, you asked to be attacked/defeated. After all, it is a pvp zone where anything goes. These formations can be countered easily with the formation of an opposing team and good organization, or simply avoiding them altogether which will usually lead some of them to boredom and subsequent logging or venturing out on their own.


7. Stalkers

Yes. They get their own section.

They are not cheaters because they are hidden. They are not cowards because they ran away and survived. They are not overpowered because you can’t see them when they stack stealth. Stalkers take skill to play effectively and the majority are easily avoided/countered. If you’re of the opinion that they are one trick ponies and take no skill to play, go roll one up and run some zones and see how difficult it is to start racking up some rep. Many of the casual stalkers or inexperienced ones can probably contribute most of their rep count to inexperienced opponents, ie: standing still, not paying attention to the surroundings, etc.


8. Brutes survivability/fury generation

Outside of a aim+build up blasters attack chain or multiple opponents, brutes in general don’t go down easy.

“But scrappers are way better, fury’s broken.” Not true. Fury generates pretty quickly, it’s the degradation of it that hurts which could use some love. Other than that, it’s easy to build up some fury in pvp, especially against other melee types. Sure, it would be nice to get up to 50% fury and move on to another opponent with minimal loss, but we’ll see if that changes.

“Well scrappers have crits and they can kite without losing damage potential.” Sure they can, but to defeat the brute they have to keep attacking which generates fury and outside of the few ranged attacks in spines and claws, they will more often than not, have to close to melee to get in more attacks which allows the brute to attack as well.

Another easy way to get some decent fury up fast is if you have some spare greens or a heal, jump into a NPC mob and take the alpha strike, jump out, heal up and engage your opponent.

9. Inspirations/Accolades/Temporary Powers

If you’ve been in the zones enough times I’m sure you’ve seen someone in chat mention the unfairness of another person for using one of these abilities/items.

Inspirations are 100% fair to use as everyone has access to them. If you don’t believe in using inspirations yourself, that’s fine, but don’t knock on someone else who does use them. Sooner or later you will use them yourself or stay at a clear disadvantage to those who make full use of theirs.

Accolades are on a 25 minute recharge timer. The person who has the accolade also had to work for it most of the time. It is a tool in their arsenal the same as any other power available to them. They earned it, they have it, they can use it. So can you. If you don’t have them and would like to find some decent ones, check the Player Guides section or ask a friend. A few of them are quite easy to obtain. They are not cheating.

Temporary powers are available to everyone much the same as inspirations. Hyper Phase stands out as a good example here as everyone can get it, hero or villain. A 30 minute temporary phase shift obtained by the Patrol mission in Warburg. This power can make for good escapes and/or tricking the opposition into using their attacks/debuffs on you while you go unaffected. It is not cheating to run from death. It is more so a natural reaction, and using this power can help you achieve this. Use them to your advantage as you would inspirations/accolades.


10. Acrobatics

You’re a squishy without mez protection. What travel set should you go with? The standard answer: Combat Jumping, Super Jump, Acrobatics. Why Acrobatics? It provides a Mag 2 hold protection (protection from very minor holds) and 100% knockback/knockdown protection. If you have the room for acrobatics in your build then by all means, take it. However, knockback, despite what many say, is not killer in pvp.

My illusion/kinetics controller has gone without acrobatics for the last 11 months. In that time frame I leveled him PvE side from 34-38, spending practically all that time in pvp. Not once was I defeated because of knockback. I have been knocked down plenty of times but always got up and continued on without fail. Knockback/down falls under suppression so you cannot be chain kb’d. It is true that some with excessive knockback/down will attempt to seek you out if they see no acrobatics but it’s rare. Now granted, Illusion has invisibility which provides some extra protection with –perception but my success here led to my eventual respec out of acrobatics on every character that had it and it is now avoided on every alt I take post-20.

The main point here is you can survive just fine without acrobatics. If you have room for it and don’t like knockback, go ahead and take it. If you’ve never attempted pvp without it, try it sometime, there may be another power out there that will aid you more that you now have a free spot for.

Conclusion

The easiest way to pvp and have fun with it is to understand that there is no consequence to you losing. Once you learn this and are able to leave out generalizations on proper conduct in zones, you will find the pvp experience much more exciting. Granted this is all IMO and you can continue with whatever works for you be it opposite of my thoughts or not, but I hope this will enlighten some as to why broadcast chat is always filled with insults, complaints, etc, and how certain powers/strategies can be quite effective and still fall under perfectly acceptable playstyles.

*Disclaimer*
This guide in it’s entirety is strictly IMO. While it is perfectly acceptable to disagree/agree with me on my views, we really do have enough threads already on some of the topics covered here and there is no need for flaming. I only ask that if you have questions/comments/suggestions about the opinions I have addressed to respond in kind and I will answer them as appropriate. Please do not turn this into a specific discussion to any particular subject though, ie: “how come the devs haven’t fixed fury yet?” as those have been addressed in other threads.

*Thanks to everyone who provided input on the -fly powers available as well*

not to critique your post, which i find thoughtful and well written, i have to point out something you forgot when discussing misconception #2, flight.
Although all of the powers you have listed do have -fly, You left out the single biggest -fly power in the game, Air superiority. Air superiority is a fast recharging melee attack with a /very/ high chance for knockdown and a -fly component to it, and is available to all AT's through the flight pool. In fact, i know quite a few other people (Brutes mostly, becuase of the speed, knockdown, and decent damage fit into an attack chain quite well) who take this power without actually taking flight for their travel power. Personally, I've not had too much trouble with the power myself becuase the only toons i have with flight are ranged toons, and I keep out of melee range whenever possible. However, even then, i once took Air superiority on my corrupter, and found it incredibly useful for escaping from flying oponents who were beating me senseless, I'd simply flight right at them, hit them with Air superiority, and fly away giggling and laughing.

But on the whole, great post

QFT

I can't believe I forgot that one

Thanks for the addition.

Also, just about everyone can buy Web Grenades from the zone store...

While Fly isn't as bad in zones as it is in the Arena, I'd still go with other forms of travel over fly any day.

Actually I'd call air superiority the second biggest -fly power in the game despites its name. He also forgot THE biggest -fly power and it exists on not 1 but 2 AT's. It's public enemy number 1...

Impale. 40' range, immob, -fly, high damage.

Of all the -fly that will make you want to delete your flying toon, impale will do it quicker than any.

IMO flight is really only a viable PvP travel power when combined with TP. I know plenty of people disagree.

I don't disagree with that 80. For certain AT's, flight+TP is a potent combo. My views on fly in pvp come from my experiences using it and seeing others who use it. I've seen stalkers (and played one this way myself) who only had fly and racked up kills easily with proper tactics/strategies with few if any deaths resulting from exposure. Most common would be flying straight up and watching all the super jumpers (which are massive in numbers) jump around like rabbits tryin to hit someone as they're continuously moving farther out of range. I ran it on my brute as well for awhile as his only form of travel and found spineys (though I forgot to mention impale) to be an annoyance. Funniest AT I've successfully ran it with was my empathy defender. No stealth and just fly. He died sometimes but it was actually quite funny how often I could escape and not once was he hit with anything -fly. I pvp'd with him for a good 3 months too. The whole point being while it may be detrimental to some AT's to have only fly, it's not as bad as people claim it is. Not everyone stops and buys temp web nades either which are easily accessable. Just my opinion

well written ; ) - some great points but -

fury is broken in pvp lol - mobs do not build it nearly as fast in pvp and fighting heroes don't still...despite the "fix" ahh the good ole days of the aoe dmg fury bug.. I could play like a hero..

Droning - ahh droning. I used to hate it and still stings when I get droned but...in some cases ganking can get so bad that you can leave the zone or make the heroes go poof! (or villians but I play freedom so it's always 6 to 1 heroes lol). Heck we got a stalker named Droney McDrone - who is EA with tp foe - all he does is drone and man the heroes get mad.

p.s. I think fire is the most resisted -

then s/l

Droney McDrone, lol.

He's the reason I turn off chat most of the time in SC on freedum. Not him specifically, but because so many ppl complain about him it gets out of control. He's easily avoided since the drones only exist around the base but ppl don't seem to realize that.

As for fury, like I said, it would be nice if it didn't decay as fast but it really is not that difficult to build it up. Blasters make fury building and your health go buhbye rather quickly but all the other kiters just contribute to its growth at a steady pace when they stick around. It's not difficult to get a half a bar of fury and TF that fly by troller or KoB a fender.

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He also forgot THE biggest -fly power and it exists on not 1 but 2 AT's. It's public enemy number 1...

Impale. 40' range, immob, -fly, high damage.

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Three ATs technically. Not that you see them all that often, but Thorny Assault Doms also get Impale, and I believe they got to keep the pre-nerf 80' range on it too. (Impale for Stalkers and Scrappers with 3x Dam/Rng HOs brings you back up to about 64'. Not as good as pre-nerf, but not terrible either.)

But yeah, I have to agree with 80, Impale alone will make you want to never fly in PvP again. Coupled with the GvE jump pack or any of the easily attainable temp jet packs, it's not hard to chase fliers down and impale them from the flight ceiling.

nope it is 40' on thier impale too

Nope. It is 80'

Actually, I think the -fly was added to pretty much every dom immobilize power(fire circle recently), and -fly on a fly only character is the easiest way to get kills.

My dom had flight originally, but impale destroyed me. With how many spines scrappers there are, you really can't afford flight as a squishy villian.

For squishies- Impale only gets countered by a break free, combat jump, or aid self and some way to get out of melee range.

One of my favorite things to do in PVP is bring down fliers and let my teammates destroy them. Flight has it's uses, but Super Jump is still the best way to go.

My Fire Blaster's -fly (he's a flier himself) is Ring of Fire. Doesn't do jack for immob in pvp, but the -fly works great. Chase a flyer into the sky, zap em with Ring of Fire, then Aim, BU and let the snipe follow them to the ground. Then I drop fly and see what's lying dead on the ground.

It's also one of only 2 powers I have taken (at 37) in the Fire secondary-- what I wouldn't give for a respec that allowed you to re-choose the secondary. So far, apart from the -fly of the mandatory Ring of Fire, the Fire secondary is useless in PvP. Heck, I wanted to take a pool power instead of Combustion, but it comes too early-- so when respeccing out of the Fire Secondary as much as I could, I actually took Flares instead. At least that's an attack that does something, as opposed to a weak PBAoE.

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nope it is 40' on thier impale too

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Never speak again until you know what you are talking about.

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Sets that have a –fly power:

Blasters: /Devices Web Grenade
Brutes: Hurl boulder from Stone melee and Hurl from Super Strength
Controllers: Earth Stone Prison/Stone Cages/Quicksand; Gravity Crushing field/Crush; Trick Arrow Entangling Arrow/Glue Arrow
Corruptors: /Cold Snow Storm; /Traps Web Grenade
Defenders: Trick Arrow Entangling/Glue
Dominators: Plant Entangle/Roots/Carrion Creepers; Gravity Crushing field/Crush; Thorny Assault Impale
Mastermind: /Trick Arrow Entangling/Glue; Traps Web Grenade
Tanker: Hurl boulder from Stone melee and Hurl from Super Strength
Peacebringer: Incandescent Strike/Radiant Strike


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Fire controllers get -Fly on Ring of Fire, Fire Cages and HotFeet

QFT, although I didnt know hot feet had a -fly component. Thx for the add-on.

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nope it is 40' on thier impale too

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Never speak again until you know what you are talking about.

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I thought impale was nerfed to 40'...

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nope it is 40' on thier impale too

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Never speak again until you know what you are talking about.

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I thought impale was nerfed to 40'...

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It was indeed.

he was refering to the Dom Impale which was left unmolested and is still 80'

:Placate:

Shhh... last time people talked about Imaple's range it got nerfed..

Soooo... back to the PvP guide...

Another -fly power is the MA scrapper's Crippling Axe Kick

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Actually I'd call air superiority the second biggest -fly power in the game despites its name. He also forgot THE biggest -fly power and it exists on not 1 but 2 AT's. It's public enemy number 1...

Impale. 40' range, immob, -fly, high damage.

Of all the -fly that will make you want to delete your flying toon, impale will do it quicker than any.

IMO flight is really only a viable PvP travel power when combined with TP. I know plenty of people disagree.

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On my brute I tried an interesting combination of superspeed and flight, and it works really well, my survivability is increased and I still have that backup power as well as superspeed and I can switch depending on the situation flight for many enemies, superspeed for fewer.

try this - ea stalker with fly - whirlwind and repel LOL flying around and double doinking everything while hidden lol

A bigger list of -fly powers, based on City of Data and patch notes.

Flight Pool (1)
Air Superiority

Blaster Primary (0)
None

Blaster Secondary (4)
Devices - Web Grenade
Fire - Ring of Fire
Fire - Hotfeet
Ice - Chilblain

Controller Primary (13)
Earth - Stone Prison
Earth - Stone Cages
Earth - Quicksand
Fire - Ring of Fire
Fire - Fire Cages
Fire - Hotfeet
Gravity - Crush
Gravity - Lift
Gravity - Gravity Distortion (per patch notes)
Gravity - Crushing Field
Gravity - Singularity (Lift/Crush)
Ice - Chilblain
Ice - Frostbite

Controller Secondary (3)
Storm - Snow Storm
Trick Arrow - Entangling Arrow
Trick Arrow - Glue Arrow

Defender Primary (4)
Dark - Tarpatch
Storm - Snow Storm
Trick Arrow - Entangling Arrow
Trick Arrow - Glue Arrow

Defender Secondary (0)
None

Scrapper Primary (2)
Martial Arts - Crippling Axe Kick
Spines - Impale

Scrapper Secondary (0)
None

Tanker Primary (0)
None

Tanker Secondary (2)
Stone - Hurl Boulder
Super Strength - Hurl

Peacebringer (3)
Radiant Strike
Incandescent Strike
White Dwarf Smite

Warshade (1)
Black Dwark Smite

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Brute Primary (2)
Stone - Hurl Boulder
Super Strength - Hurl

Brute Secondary(0)
None

Corruptor Primary (0)
None

Corruptor Secondary (3)
Cold - Snow Storm
Dark - Tarpatch
Traps - Web Grenade

Dominator Primary (14)
Fire - Ring of Fire
Fire - Fire Cages
Fire - Hotfeet
Gravity - Crush
Gravity - Lift
Gravity - Gravity Distortion (per patch notes)
Gravity - Crushing Field
Gravity - Singularity (Lift/Crush)
Ice - Chilblain
Ice - Frostbite
Plant - Entangle
Plant - Roots
Plant - Carrion Creeper
Plant - Fly Trap (Entangle)

Dominator Secondary (1)
Thorns - Impale

Mastermind Primary (3)
Ninjas - Oni (Ring of Fire - per patch notes)
Mercenaries - Spec Ops (Web Grenade)
Thugs - Bruiser (Hurl)

Mastermind Secondary (4)
Dark - Tarpatch
Traps - Web Grenade
Trick Arrow - Entangling Arrow
Trick Arrow - Glue Arrow

Stalker Primary (2)
Martial Arts - Crippling Axe Kick
Spines - Impale

Stalker Secondary (0)
None

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A grand total of 61 powers with -fly attached (and I may well have missed a few). Every archetype is represented, though warshades have the least opportunity for -fly, since they can't take AS and only get one in Dwarf form.

wow, guess i should of looked at the powersets a lil closer. thx pudds. I was actually going to change my initial fly section around a bit but i just havent gotten around to it yet.