Sounds like the GVE Jump Pack.
thats what I was going to lean more towards with the fly+tp combo. I've had quite a few successfully run with just fly though I can see how it would be detrimental to many others.
[ QUOTE ]
A bigger list of -fly powers, based on City of Data and patch notes.
[snip]
A grand total of 61 powers with -fly attached (and I may well have missed a few). Every archetype is represented, though warshades have the least opportunity for -fly, since they can't take AS and only get one in Dwarf form.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also, Mind Control's Levitate on both sides.
EDIT: And Sonic Resonance's Liquify.
Guide to Misconceptions of zone PvP
I have been PvPn for quite awhile, since my first controller hit 15 when I first started this game. Throughout my time in zones and reading the forums I have come across countless comments about certain things that I have come to simply find as being misconceptions IMO. This is based off of my personal experiences from Bloody Bay to Warburg. I am leaving RV and the Arena out as the majority of PvP I have done is from BB to WB. While some of my views may be vastly different for Arena battles or RV, they are all geared towards the zones mentioned and I am completely aware of the differences in the arena/RV.
Common misconceptions about powers/tactics in zone PvP from Bloody Bay to Warburg
1. Smashing/lethal is the most resisted damage type
Decent Smashing/Lethal resists in these zones:
Tankers: Invuln/fire armor/stone armor
Scrappers: Dark armor/Invuln/
Brutes: Every secondary except Energy Aura
Stalkers: Dark armor
Defenders: Sonic/
Controllers: /Sonic
Corruptors: /Sonic
Peacebringers
Warshades
Granted, everyone has access to Tough out of the fighting pool, but how many ppl actually take it that dont already have some type of s/l resist to begin with. Dont shelve those claws or martial artists or jump on the em/ bandwagon without thinking about this first. Ive run a claws stalker and ma/ scrapper quite successfully in pvp and have seen many do the same. S/L isnt as resisted as most believe. Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers have the highest numbers available but do a few runs through a zone like SC on a busy night and count how many doms/trollers/corrs/MMs/defs/stalkers/blasters are outnumbering those invuln scrappers/tanks which are not very common to begin with. Add to that /regen, which is probably the most common scrapper you will see. They can also get s/l resist in Resilience and Tough which gives some decent resistance, the majority of them though do not have this combo by SC lvl, and many still dont in WB.
2. Flight is horrible for PvP
With all the fly powers out there that I thought of originally and the many additions added by others here, Ive decided to change this argument around somewhat. I still stand by my experiences with certain ATs that Ive used with just fly as a travel power and did so successfully, yet I will submit that it isnt the most optimal and more than likely detrimental to certain ATs and/or combinations having fly and fly alone. That being said, flight+teleport is a powerful travel combination for many if used correctly. That is two travel powers to take but look at how many people take super jump+super speed.
The problem with this combo is catching your target to finish them off, so it may not be viable for a melee AT like a scrapper/tank/brute, but stalkers can make very good use of this combo. Also, if any of the prevalent fly powers do connect, teleport is a 100% sure fire way to escape outside of being held/slept/stunned. If you rely on ranged attacks like a corruptor/blaster/etc, this combo can be quite effective, and for stalkers, it makes for a fast approach/getaway.
3. TP Foe
Droning:
My views on this have changed much since I was first droned. At first my initial reactions were much the same as most of the casual pvp population in thinking this was an unfair/waste of time/weak strategy. After learning how to counter it (ie: not be there, pop oranges, get a kin), it became more of a, well, they can do it all they want but Im not doin it.. After reading an article on gaming and the sense of honor that people bring into the gaming environment out of real life, I have come to the conclusion that outside of exploiting holes in the geometry of the environment or bugs in the game that give you the ability to attack/defeat your opponent without consequence, all is fair. Base camping is a problem on both sides that can easily be dealt with with a couple of drones. The opposition will either move out of range or continue to be droned until they do. This subject can cause much flak in broadcast and in the forums as everyone has their own opinion, however, take it for what its worth and dont be afraid to use the tools available to you to better your chances at survival/victory.
TP Foe into traps:
A simple and very effective strategy employed by many /device blasters, and /traps corrs/MMs, I have found this to be very effective on many different ATs. TPn someone into a trap doesnt necessarily mean you need caltrops and mines laid out. For instance, my ill/kin will TP into some of the same areas /dev blasters do, like Cargo containers, under bridges, fire escapes on the sides of buildings, etc. It works, its legit, try it out. I did the same with my brute for awhile. TP foe underneath something with stun/TF queued up for some easier fights. Control the situation and determine how best to deal with your target. Fight on your terms, where you want to fight, when you want to fight.
4. Dueling in zones
Happens all the time. Are people allowed to actually do this? Sure. Are the rules of no interruptions carved in stone for all in the zone? Not a chance. Sure, you can whine and tell them to take it to the arena, or you could just stand there and see who wins then take out the winner, or how about taking both of them out when theyre low on health. Then again, you could wait it out and leave when its over. Its a zone, anything goes. Dont be afraid to jump in and take out your bounty in a SC fight club, and if your in the fight, dont be upset if someone comes out and drops you/your opponent.
5. Kill stealing
Weve all heard the term at the low lvls, and we all should know by now how the xp per damage done works. This however is not true for pvp. Unless youre on a team together, its whoever gets that last shot in that gets the rep/bounty. If this irritates you when you have been working that particularly annoying opponent down to almost nothing and just waiting for that finishing attack to recharge and someone hops down and takes em out before you with one shot, do it to them. Anything goes, so throw that person on follow and watch them fight, soon as their target is down enough, through out your heavy hitter and take the rep for yourself. They will either A: become fed up with it and leave/stop fighting, or B: send you nasty tells about how youre cheating/kill stealing. To which you can simply continue or go back to your own hunting, whatever floats your boat. I have had ppl follow me around purposely using this for easy kills and the only way I have found to stop it is to just hang out for a bit and wait for them to move on to someone else or log. How you deal with it is up to you. While this may not be a bug many do not agree with how it works and neither do I. But until it changes or if at all, its not cheating, just annoying.
6. Ganking
Many people have a different definition of what constitutes a gank. The most common being a team of ppl defeating 1 person. This would probably be my definition of it, if I believed in it. First off, a well played team will usually mop solo players with ease. Many have come across the turtle formation of a team of villains/heroes all huddled up together and either tp foen or jumpin the opposition as it comes in range. I have been in these and on the outside facing them on both sides many times. Extremely effective strategy and quite legit, no one ganked you. If you encounter this type of opposition and engage them or get too close, you asked to be attacked/defeated. After all, it is a pvp zone where anything goes. These formations can be countered easily with the formation of an opposing team and good organization, or simply avoiding them altogether which will usually lead some of them to boredom and subsequent logging or venturing out on their own.
7. Stalkers
Yes. They get their own section.
They are not cheaters because they are hidden. They are not cowards because they ran away and survived. They are not overpowered because you cant see them when they stack stealth. Stalkers take skill to play effectively and the majority are easily avoided/countered. If youre of the opinion that they are one trick ponies and take no skill to play, go roll one up and run some zones and see how difficult it is to start racking up some rep. Many of the casual stalkers or inexperienced ones can probably contribute most of their rep count to inexperienced opponents, ie: standing still, not paying attention to the surroundings, etc.
8. Brutes survivability/fury generation
Outside of a aim+build up blasters attack chain or multiple opponents, brutes in general dont go down easy.
But scrappers are way better, furys broken. Not true. Fury generates pretty quickly, its the degradation of it that hurts which could use some love. Other than that, its easy to build up some fury in pvp, especially against other melee types. Sure, it would be nice to get up to 50% fury and move on to another opponent with minimal loss, but well see if that changes.
Well scrappers have crits and they can kite without losing damage potential. Sure they can, but to defeat the brute they have to keep attacking which generates fury and outside of the few ranged attacks in spines and claws, they will more often than not, have to close to melee to get in more attacks which allows the brute to attack as well.
Another easy way to get some decent fury up fast is if you have some spare greens or a heal, jump into a NPC mob and take the alpha strike, jump out, heal up and engage your opponent.
Conclusion
The easiest way to pvp and have fun with it is to understand that there is no consequence to you losing. Once you learn this and are able to leave out generalizations on proper conduct in zones, you will find the pvp experience much more exciting. Granted this is all IMO and you can continue with whatever works for you be it opposite of my thoughts or not, but I hope this will enlighten some as to why broadcast chat is always filled with insults, complaints, etc, and how certain powers/strategies can be quite effective and still fall under perfectly acceptable playstyles.
*Disclaimer*
This guide in its entirety is strictly IMO. While it is perfectly acceptable to disagree/agree with me on my views, we really do have enough threads already on some of the topics covered here and there is no need for flaming. I only ask that if you have questions/comments/suggestions about the opinions I have addressed to respond in kind and I will answer them as appropriate. Please do not turn this into a specific discussion to any particular subject though, ie: how come the devs havent fixed fury yet? as those have been addressed in other threads.
*Thanks to everyone who provided input on the -fly powers available as well*
[ QUOTE ]
1. good original post.
2. fly+tp is much better than fly alone. and in the fly+tp combo, tp is the more important part.
[/ QUOTE ]
And the reverse can be interesting - TP+Fly, or rather hover. Many TPers will have this "just in case" of lag, or needing to stop midair for something.
I've got a 50 Elec/Elec who's *severely* underspecced for PVP - purely PVE, hit fifty in Issue 4, never tweaked (still has Phase Shift from whens he first took it.)
Yet I've managed to TP up, attack, have someeone start flying away damaged, TP twice, hover in front and snipe them for a defeat.
Edit:
Personally, I think you should add a "It's not fair!" section... things like using inspirations and whatnot. They're there, they're meant to be used. Had a Brute complain my PB wouldn't stay in range at one point (IS, swap to dwarf, beat on him a bit, TP up, hit nova while he's down on the ground, fire away.) I told him flat out "I will use everything available to me to defeat you, and I expect you to do the same."
Does it get frustrating sometimes? Sure. So catch the person hitting a bunch of purples as they're running back to the base in BB, or as they try to reach the door in the other zones.
Guide created by Dubya Updated in April 07
Guide to Misconceptions of zone PvP
I have been PvPn for quite awhile, since my first controller hit 15 when I first started this game. Throughout my time in zones and reading the forums I have come across countless comments about certain things that I have come to simply find as being misconceptions IMO. This is based off of my personal experiences from Bloody Bay to Warburg. I am leaving RV and the Arena out as the majority of PvP I have done is from BB to WB. While some of my views may be vastly different for Arena battles or RV, they are all geared towards the zones mentioned and I am completely aware of the differences in the arena/RV.
Common misconceptions about powers/tactics in zone PvP from Bloody Bay to Warburg
1. Smashing/lethal is the most resisted damage type
Decent Smashing/Lethal resists in these zones:
Tankers: Invuln/fire armor/stone armor
Scrappers: Dark armor/Invuln/
Brutes: Every secondary except Energy Aura
Stalkers: Dark armor
Defenders: Sonic/Kinetics*
Controllers: Sonic/Kinetics*
Corruptors: Sonic/Kinetics*/Thermal
Peacebringers
Warshades
*From the Kinetics line, Increase Density has good smashing resistance
Granted, everyone has access to Tough out of the fighting pool, but how many ppl actually take it that dont already have some type of s/l resist to begin with. Dont shelve those claws or martial artists or jump on the em/ bandwagon without thinking about this first. Ive run a claws stalker and ma/ scrapper quite successfully in pvp and have seen many do the same. S/L isnt as resisted as most believe. Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers have the highest numbers available but do a few runs through a zone like SC on a busy night and count how many doms/trollers/corrs/MMs/defs/stalkers/blasters are outnumbering those invuln scrappers/tanks which are not very common to begin with. Add to that /regen, which is probably the most common scrapper you will see. They can also get s/l resist in Resilience and Tough which gives some decent resistance, the majority of them though do not have this combo by SC lvl, and many still dont in WB.
2. Flight is horrible for PvP
With all the fly powers out there that I thought of originally and the many additions added by others here, Ive decided to change this argument around somewhat. I still stand by my experiences with certain ATs that Ive used with just fly as a travel power and did so successfully, yet I will submit that it isnt the most optimal and more than likely detrimental to certain ATs and/or combinations having fly and fly alone. That being said, flight+teleport is a powerful travel combination for many if used correctly. That is two travel powers to take but look at how many people take super jump+super speed.
The problem with this combo is catching your target to finish them off, so it may not be viable for a melee AT like a scrapper/tank/brute, but stalkers can make very good use of this combo. Also, if any of the prevalent fly powers do connect, teleport is a 100% sure fire way to escape outside of being held/slept/stunned. If you rely on ranged attacks like a corruptor/blaster/etc, this combo can be quite effective, and for stalkers, it makes for a fast approach/getaway.
3. TP Foe
Droning:
My views on this have changed much since I was first droned. At first my initial reactions were much the same as most of the casual pvp population in thinking this was an unfair/waste of time/weak strategy. After learning how to counter it (ie: not be there, pop oranges, get a kin), it became more of a, well, they can do it all they want but Im not doin it.. After reading an article on gaming and the sense of honor that people bring into the gaming environment out of real life, I have come to the conclusion that outside of exploiting holes in the geometry of the environment or bugs in the game that give you the ability to attack/defeat your opponent without consequence, all is fair. Base camping is a problem on both sides that can easily be dealt with with a couple of drones. The opposition will either move out of range or continue to be droned until they do. This subject can cause much flak in broadcast and in the forums as everyone has their own opinion, however, take it for what its worth and dont be afraid to use the tools available to you to better your chances at survival/victory.
TP Foe into traps:
A simple and very effective strategy employed by many /device blasters, and /traps corrs/MMs, I have found this to be very effective on many different ATs. TPn someone into a trap doesnt necessarily mean you need caltrops and mines laid out. For instance, my ill/kin will TP into some of the same areas /dev blasters do, like Cargo containers, under bridges, fire escapes on the sides of buildings, etc. It works, its legit, try it out. I did the same with my brute for awhile. TP foe underneath something with stun/TF queued up for some easier fights. Control the situation and determine how best to deal with your target. Fight on your terms, where you want to fight, when you want to fight.
4. Dueling in zones
Happens all the time. Are people allowed to actually do this? Sure. Are the rules of no interruptions carved in stone for all in the zone? Not a chance. Sure, you can whine and tell them to take it to the arena, or you could just stand there and see who wins then take out the winner, or how about taking both of them out when theyre low on health. Then again, you could wait it out and leave when its over. Its a zone, anything goes. Dont be afraid to jump in and take out your bounty in a SC fight club, and if your in the fight, dont be upset if someone comes out and drops you/your opponent.
5. Kill stealing
Weve all heard the term at the low lvls, and we all should know by now how the xp per damage done works. This however is not true for pvp. Unless youre on a team together, its whoever gets that last shot in that gets the rep/bounty. If this irritates you when you have been working that particularly annoying opponent down to almost nothing and just waiting for that finishing attack to recharge and someone hops down and takes em out before you with one shot, do it to them. Anything goes, so throw that person on follow and watch them fight, soon as their target is down enough, through out your heavy hitter and take the rep for yourself. They will either A: become fed up with it and leave/stop fighting, or B: send you nasty tells about how youre cheating/kill stealing. To which you can simply continue or go back to your own hunting, whatever floats your boat. I have had ppl follow me around purposely using this for easy kills and the only way I have found to stop it is to just hang out for a bit and wait for them to move on to someone else or log. How you deal with it is up to you. While this may not be a bug many do not agree with how it works and neither do I. But until it changes or if at all, its not cheating, just annoying.
6. Ganking
Many people have a different definition of what constitutes a gank. The most common being a team of ppl defeating 1 person. This would probably be my definition of it, if I believed in it. First off, a well played team will usually mop solo players with ease. Many have come across the turtle formation of a team of villains/heroes all huddled up together and either tp foen or jumping the opposition as it comes in range. I have been in these and on the outside facing them on both sides many times. Extremely effective strategy and quite legit, no one ganked you. If you encounter this type of opposition and engage them or get too close, you asked to be attacked/defeated. After all, it is a pvp zone where anything goes. These formations can be countered easily with the formation of an opposing team and good organization, or simply avoiding them altogether which will usually lead some of them to boredom and subsequent logging or venturing out on their own.
7. Stalkers
Yes. They get their own section.
They are not cheaters because they are hidden. They are not cowards because they ran away and survived. They are not overpowered because you cant see them when they stack stealth. Stalkers take skill to play effectively and the majority are easily avoided/countered. If youre of the opinion that they are one trick ponies and take no skill to play, go roll one up and run some zones and see how difficult it is to start racking up some rep. Many of the casual stalkers or inexperienced ones can probably contribute most of their rep count to inexperienced opponents, ie: standing still, not paying attention to the surroundings, etc.
8. Brutes survivability/fury generation
Outside of a aim+build up blasters attack chain or multiple opponents, brutes in general dont go down easy.
But scrappers are way better, furys broken. Not true. Fury generates pretty quickly, its the degradation of it that hurts which could use some love. Other than that, its easy to build up some fury in pvp, especially against other melee types. Sure, it would be nice to get up to 50% fury and move on to another opponent with minimal loss, but well see if that changes.
Well scrappers have crits and they can kite without losing damage potential. Sure they can, but to defeat the brute they have to keep attacking which generates fury and outside of the few ranged attacks in spines and claws, they will more often than not, have to close to melee to get in more attacks which allows the brute to attack as well.
Another easy way to get some decent fury up fast is if you have some spare greens or a heal, jump into a NPC mob and take the alpha strike, jump out, heal up and engage your opponent.
9. Inspirations/Accolades/Temporary Powers
If youve been in the zones enough times Im sure youve seen someone in chat mention the unfairness of another person for using one of these abilities/items.
Inspirations are 100% fair to use as everyone has access to them. If you dont believe in using inspirations yourself, thats fine, but dont knock on someone else who does use them. Sooner or later you will use them yourself or stay at a clear disadvantage to those who make full use of theirs.
Accolades are on a 25 minute recharge timer. The person who has the accolade also had to work for it most of the time. It is a tool in their arsenal the same as any other power available to them. They earned it, they have it, they can use it. So can you. If you dont have them and would like to find some decent ones, check the Player Guides section or ask a friend. A few of them are quite easy to obtain. They are not cheating.
Temporary powers are available to everyone much the same as inspirations. Hyper Phase stands out as a good example here as everyone can get it, hero or villain. A 30 minute temporary phase shift obtained by the Patrol mission in Warburg. This power can make for good escapes and/or tricking the opposition into using their attacks/debuffs on you while you go unaffected. It is not cheating to run from death. It is more so a natural reaction, and using this power can help you achieve this. Use them to your advantage as you would inspirations/accolades.
10. Acrobatics
Youre a squishy without mez protection. What travel set should you go with? The standard answer: Combat Jumping, Super Jump, Acrobatics. Why Acrobatics? It provides a Mag 2 hold protection (protection from very minor holds) and 100% knockback/knockdown protection. If you have the room for acrobatics in your build then by all means, take it. However, knockback, despite what many say, is not killer in pvp.
My illusion/kinetics controller has gone without acrobatics for the last 11 months. In that time frame I leveled him PvE side from 34-38, spending practically all that time in pvp. Not once was I defeated because of knockback. I have been knocked down plenty of times but always got up and continued on without fail. Knockback/down falls under suppression so you cannot be chain kbd. It is true that some with excessive knockback/down will attempt to seek you out if they see no acrobatics but its rare. Now granted, Illusion has invisibility which provides some extra protection with perception but my success here led to my eventual respec out of acrobatics on every character that had it and it is now avoided on every alt I take post-20.
The main point here is you can survive just fine without acrobatics. If you have room for it and dont like knockback, go ahead and take it. If youve never attempted pvp without it, try it sometime, there may be another power out there that will aid you more that you now have a free spot for.
Conclusion
The easiest way to pvp and have fun with it is to understand that there is no consequence to you losing. Once you learn this and are able to leave out generalizations on proper conduct in zones, you will find the pvp experience much more exciting. Granted this is all IMO and you can continue with whatever works for you be it opposite of my thoughts or not, but I hope this will enlighten some as to why broadcast chat is always filled with insults, complaints, etc, and how certain powers/strategies can be quite effective and still fall under perfectly acceptable playstyles.
*Disclaimer*
This guide in its entirety is strictly IMO. While it is perfectly acceptable to disagree/agree with me on my views, we really do have enough threads already on some of the topics covered here and there is no need for flaming. I only ask that if you have questions/comments/suggestions about the opinions I have addressed to respond in kind and I will answer them as appropriate. Please do not turn this into a specific discussion to any particular subject though, ie: how come the devs havent fixed fury yet? as those have been addressed in other threads.
*Thanks to everyone who provided input on the -fly powers available as well*
1. good original post.
2. fly+tp is much better than fly alone. and in the fly+tp combo, tp is the more important part.
3. whats the deal with jumpers doing something that allows them to successively jump in midair and thereby remain indefinitely off the ground (or go as high as they want to go)? seeing more and more of that now