Poison Pill's Thug/Poison Guide

Poison_Pill · 01-31-2007 09:23 AM

Faq's
Powers
<ul type="square">[*]Poison[*]Thugs[/list]Strategy
Builds
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Welcome to Poison Pill's thug/poison guide. This guide is to return the help I have received and help people not make the same mistakes I made. This guide is based on my experience from total noob to an established Level 50 thug/poison having done all of the strike forces, 6 of 7 Accolades, and over 200 badges. What I have in here is from actual experience, and not speculation from a L11 point of view and how über my build is. I will also avoid subjective observations and opinion where possible and use hard numbers to back up any statements. I will primarily cover a build that is optimized for doing the Lord Recluse Strike Force (LRSF). I'll give you some play style pointers on leveling to 50 as well as some pointers on getting your Accolades as soon as possible. Patron powers up to the individual, but for the record I did go with Black Scorpion.

Who this guide is not for:

Concept builds looking to be a pistol corrupter.
Someone looking for crowd control.
Someone looking to be the team healer.
Players who want a mastermind that does not want active participation.
Players who complain about not liking the animations.

FAQ's

First I will dispel some answers to common questions and explain the reasons for choosing this build.

Why Poison?

The Poison class is an highly offensive power set based on debuffing single targets.

What does that mean? How can you say it is offensive with no damage attacks?

Poison has the game's strongest single target debuffs. Meaning, you do not doing damage directly. A poison weakens the target so it does less damage, for less time, takes longer to recover, is easier to hit while having a harder time hitting you.

Oooooh, that is a good thing. I get that now, but I want [bots|mercs|ninjas|zombies] cause they are [cool|über] so why thugs?

I am not going to get into the "my pets are better than you pets" black hole debate. This guide is for maximizing the effectiveness of poison. The reason for choosing thugs with poison is they have the best synergy via the tier 9 power Noxious Gas and Bruiser combination.

So what, that doesn't tell me anything.

You are right, the power discussion is below, but here is the quick answer. Noxious Gas (NG) is a 30' Point Blank Area of Effect (PBAoE) attack that is applied to a pet. NG debuffs targets across the board 20-30% and has a mag 1000 four second hold (puke). Thirty feet in the game is not that far and you really, really want this power to take affect since it only lasts 45 seconds and has a long recharge. In order to get the most out of NG you need a pet that likes to melee and can survive being the middle of everything. An equal level, super strength, invulnerable brute fits that requirement perfectly and just happens to be the Bruiser.

Are talking about that stupid pet that everyone complains about?

Um, yes, that would be him. However, with proper control he is absolutely devastating. As a mastermind controlling your pets is one of your requirements. However, _CASTLE_ has publicly acknowledged the bruiser AI problems and they will be fixed sometime in the future.

Alright, I'll buy that for now, but I want to know more about the powers.

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Poison:
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As with most power sets Poison has its must-have and skippable powers. Here is the breakdown of the power set.

Alkaloid [Ally Heal, +Res(Toxic)]: When used correctly, poisons can be used to heal, as well as harm. Alkaloid consists of just the right amount of amino acids to safely heal a single targeted ally. The healed target is also left with some resistance to Toxic Damage.

Level: 1
Range: 80'
End: 16.25
Recharge: 4 seconds

This is a required power. Alkaloid is a single target auto-hit heal with a long 80 foot range. It has a pretty hefty endurance cost and starts off pretty weak. This is a power that needs to be six slotted with SO's to really shine. People will complain all day for what it does out of the box. What they have not seen is Alkaloid healing ~275 hps every 3 seconds. Think about that for a second. Now envision your bruiser surrounded by mobs with a full fury bar, and you are healing him faster than he can take damage while your 5 other thugs at range firing away. You will like alkaloid more and more as you progress.

Envenom [-RES, -DEF, -Regen, -Heal]: You Envenom your foe with a nasty poison. The toxin directly attacks the immune system, reducing the affected targets Defense, Damage Resistance and Hit Point Regeneration Rate. The poison is so potent, that the target actually responds less to Healing

Level: 2
Range: 70
End: 13
Recharge: 12 seconds

This is a must have power. You will take this at level two. Don't even thnk about pistols. Envenom is one of the signature powers of poison. Not having this can get you kicked from a team for not having a clue. Now why am I being so harsh? Envenom is one of the games biggest debuffs. It is why people look for poisons to join their team. Do I have your attention? Now let's get into the un-slotted numbers:

-22.5% Defense to Target for 30 seconds

-30.0% Resistance(Smashing) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Lethal) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Fire) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Cold) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Energy) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(negative_Energy) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Toxic) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-30.0% Resistance(Psionic) to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
15.0% Resistance(Heal) to Target for 30 seconds [Non-resistable]

-50.0% Regeneration to Target for 30 seconds if (target = critter) [Non-resistable]
-2.984 Regeneration to Target for 30 seconds if (target = player) [Non-resistable]

Soooooo that is what you meant by debuffing.

Note 1: only the -Regeneration portion is stackable by the same player. As you can see fully slotted you will be able to stop the regeneration of any target. Those */regen scrappers who think they are invincible and God's gift to PVP are in for a rude awakening the first time they run into a poison MM.

Note 2: Notice the recharge is 12 and the effect time is 30 seconds. You do not have to spam this as soon as it is recharged. Unless the target is one of those /regen players, AV's, Hero, Giant Monster or longbow wardens.
Weaken: You poison a single foe with a venom that significantly Weakens their strength. The affected targets Accuracy and Damage output is severely reduced. Additionally, the affected targets secondary power effects are all weakened. The targets power effects like Heals, Defense Buffs, Endurance Drains, Disorients, Holds, Immobilizes, Knockbacks and more, are all weakened.

Level: 4
Range: 70
End: 13
Recharge: 16 seconds

This is another must have power. You will take this at level four. Don't even look at Dual Pistols. Weaken is also a signature power of poison. Not having this can get you kicked from a team for not having a clue. Weaken is also one of the games biggest debuffs, and why people look for poisons to join their team. Am I sounding redundant? I can't stress enough that you need to take this as a poison. Where envenom attacks the target defenses Weaken attacks the target ability to attack you. Now let's get into the un-slotted numbers:

-11.25% ToHit to Target for 30 seconds

-22.50% Smashing Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Lethal Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Fire Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Cold Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Energy Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% negative_Energy Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Toxic Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
-22.50% Psionic Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]

-74.50% Stun Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Sleep Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Confused Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Terrorized Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Immobilize Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Held Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Knockback Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Knockup Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Repel Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% RunSpeed Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% FlySpeed Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Melee) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Ranged) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(AOE) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Smashing) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Lethal) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Fire) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Cold) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Energy) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Negative_Energy) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Defense(Psionic) Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Heal Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds [Non-resistable]
-74.50% ToHit Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds
-74.50% Endurance Enhancement to Target for 30 seconds

Are you serious? As you can see un-slotted you reduce the target's accuracy by 11.25%, damage output by -22.50%, and power effects are reduced by almost 75%. So if you are held normally for 12 seconds their hold goes down to 4 seconds.

Weaken and Envenom are stealth powers, and probably the reason people take thier personal attacks because there are no orange numbers flying up when used. However, the two attacks combined basically reduce a target's threat by several levels. They are the cornerstone of the poison set and make you the boss/AV/Hero killer. Your personal attacks cannot compare to the effect that these two attacks have. For the record I am guilty of taking pistols when I first started the game and before I found the guides in the forums. I did respec out of them as soon as I hit L24. I want to help people avoid that same mistake as much as possible.

Neurotoxic Breath: You can breath a cone of Neurotoxin gas that quickly start to anesthetize any nearby foes. Affected targets may choke on the gas as their movement and attack rate are severely reduced

Level: 10
Range: 60
End: 13
Recharge: 30 seconds

By level 10 you realize what is meant by poison being a single target set. Large mobs will overcome you. Neurotoxic Breath (NB) will give you some sort of crowd control. It produces a large slow cone. Enemy's can still attack but you can focus on taking them out one by one. You should take NB at level 10 it will help you out a lot. Notice the effect is 20 seconds and the recharge is 30 seconds. Perma slow will take some slotting help.

Effect -5.25 Max RunSpeed to Target for 20 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect -65% RechargeTime Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect -65% JumpHeight Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect -65% SpeedJumping to Target for 20 seconds
Effect -65% RunSpeed to Target for 20 seconds
Effect -65% FlySpeed to Target for 20 seconds

Effect 3.576 second Held (magnitude 2) to Target (25% chance) if (target = critter)
Effect 3.576 second Held (magnitude 2) to Target (25% chance) if (target = critter)

Elixir of Life: With this Elixir, you can revive a fallen ally and turn him into a killing machine. The revived target has increased damage, Accuracy, Endurance recovery, and attack speed, and gains a resistance to Toxic damage. A brew of this sort is not without its side effects. The revived target will soon become very sick and severely weak after about 90 seconds. All effects of the Elixir will eventually wear off. Elixir of Life can only be used on Players and cannot be used on your Henchmen.

Level: 15
Range: 15
End: 32.5
Recharge: 180 seconds

Elixer of Life is your combat rez for an ally. Someone goes down, and you run over and throw a gob of green goo down and they get up as a killing machine. Then after 90 seconds you can amuse yourself by watching your buddy puke. As far a rez's go this is one of the better ones. During the 90 seconds there is debt protection and very healthy buffs to the player.

100% Heal to Target for 0.5 seconds [Non-resistable]
100% Endurance to Target [Non-resistable]
200% Recovery to Target for 90 seconds [Non-resistable]
+100% RechargeTime Enhancement to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Smashing) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Lethal) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Fire) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Cold) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Energy) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(negative_Energy) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Toxic) to Target for 90 seconds
30% Damage Buff(Psionic) to Target for 90 seconds
22.5% ToHit to Target for 90 seconds
15% Resistance(Toxic) to Target for 90 seconds [Non-resistable]
XP Debt Protection for 90 seconds

What happens after the 90 seconds are up? The player pukes and is very weak and very squishy. You need to warn your teammate about the side affects so they are not in the middle of a mob when time runs out! It's your bad if you do not, and get them killed again.

1000 Held to Target for 4 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Smashing Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Lethal Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Fire Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Cold Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Energy Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% negative_Energy Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Toxic Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-30% Psionic Enhancement to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
-22.5% ToHit to Target for 45 seconds (after 90 sec delay)
Note 1: If you do not team you do not need this power it does not work on pets.
Note 2: You can wait on it though since there more desirable powers to get at this level.

Antidote: This Antidote can free an ally from any Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Slow and Immobilize effects and leaves them resistant to such effects for a good while. The Antidote also grants the target some resistance to Cold and Toxic damage. Some of the effects of this power will improve with Multiple applications and as you advance in level.

Level: 20
Range: 70
End: 6.5
Recharge: 4 seconds

-7.785 Stun to Target for 90 seconds
129.75% Resistance(Sleep) to Target for 90 seconds
-7.785 Sleep to Target for 90 seconds
-7.785 Immobilize to Target for 90 seconds
-7.785 Held to Target for 90 seconds
7.5% Resistance(Cold) to Target for 90 seconds
50% Resistance(RunSpeed) to Target for 90 seconds
50% Resistance(RechargeTime) to Target for 90 seconds
15% Resistance(Toxic) to Target for 90 seconds

You don't need it. Just skip it and take Stamina and be happy. Really, when you use weaken these hold effects don't last that long. So a teammate gets held use you pets to take the agg off of him or just kill the caster. It's a nice power but there are more important powers to take.

Paralytic Poison: This Paralytic Poison viciously attacks a foe's nervous system and can leave an affected target completely Held and defenseless.

Level: 28
Range: 70
End: 9.75
Duration: 6 seconds
Recharge: 16 seconds

9.536 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = critter) @ L50
7.152 second Held (magnitude 3) to Target if (target = player) @ L50

Now you finally have a hold. It really improves your quality of life. Being able to stop a [critter|player] cold just gives you that "hands up while I beat the snot out of you mentality". It is a mag three hold so you have to stack it to hold a boss or above. Then it only holds bosses for a short time during the overlap. You will want to slot this with one Acc, two Rchg, and three Hold. This slotting will give the ability to perma hold with a recharge = 9.09.

Poison Trap: You can build a Poison Trap on the ground. Any foes that pass near the Poison Trap will cause it to detonate and release its toxic vapors. The poison is a knock-out gas, and any foes in the affected area may be drained of much of their Endurance and quickly put it to Sleep or begin choking. The trap is almost impossible to detect, but it is fragile and may be set off by an enemy's explosion. Even if destroyed, the Trap will detonate.

Level: 35
Range: -
End: 16.25
Recharge: 60 seconds

Skip it period. Believe me now or take it to test and believe me later. You place a glob of green goo on the ground and hope something steps on it. Poison Trap is a sleep not a hold. Meaning as soon as the target is attacked it wakes up and attacks. If you take TP foe it could be useful. TP the target onto the goo and set off the cloud of poison. Too much work. Basically, if you do TP a foe into the middle of you thugs they are dead anyway. If target is not dead it is probably a boss with TP resistance that you couldn't teleport anyway. I would really like to see this turned into an AoE green gob of goo that you throw with a 70'-80' range that is a hold or slow that can be stacked.

Noxious Gas: You can infect one of your Henchmen, surrounding him with a Noxious Gas. All foes near the infected Henchmen will be overcome with the Noxious Gas. Their Defense, Accuracy, Damage and Damage resistance will all be reduced. Additionally, there is a chance than any affected humanoid enemy will become violently ill. Even the mightiest foe will stop dead in their tracks, and left helpless as he empties the contents of his stomach.

Level: 38
Range: 30
End: 22.75
Duration: 45 Seconds
Recharge: 300 seconds

This is it, this is why you take thugs and poison. Noxious Gas works when applied to a pet and creates a 30' gaseous cloud around the pet. It only lasts 45 seconds so the pet needs to be up close and personal with the target and stay there to get the biggest affect. Since the bruiser works best when he's in the middle of the action it creates the best synergy of the two powers. It may take a level or two to really get the hang of it down to maximize the effectiveness so give it a chance. Now let's look at the numbers to see why NG is such a big deal:

-10% ToHit to Target for 20 seconds

-20% Smashing Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Lethal Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Fire Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Cold Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Energy Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% negative_Energy Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Toxic Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Psionic Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds

-20% Defense to Target for 20 seconds

-30% Resistance(Smashing) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Lethal) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Fire) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Cold) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Energy) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(negative_Energy) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Toxic) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Psionic) to Target for 20 seconds

Effect 1000 Held to Target for 4 seconds (0% chance) [Non-resistible]

As you can see NG debuffs across the board and it stacks with Envenom and Weaken. Go look again I'll wait. Now note there is a multiplier depending which tier pet you apply Noxious Gas. The numbers above are based on a tier 2 which has 1.00 multiplier. The tier 1 pets have a 0.75 multiplier. Your tier three bruiser has a 1.25 multiplier. Further reinforcing that Noxious Gas and the bruiser have the best synergy. Using the bruiser your debuffs are 12.5%, 25% & 37.5%.

Now it is crystal clear Envenom, Weaken and Noxious Gas are what you use to go big game hunting. By big game I mean AV's and Hero's. For PVP I was spotting 50's 10 levels in the arena and wiping the floor with them at level 40. Noxious Gas will also detoggle granite. It is just a nasty power. The best thing about it is you can make things puke. Puking is that mag 1000 four second hold. What is better than making a player or signature heroes like Valkyrie puke?

The best way to use NG is to get you bruiser up in front of everybody just out of awareness range of the target[s]. Send the bruiser in with goto aggressive. Then immediately infect him with NG before he gets out of your range of 30'. Let him get agg then debuff with envenom/weaken and attack.

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Thugs
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Thugs are the all damage pets for masterminds. There are no force fields, web grenades, or holds it is just straight damage. The damage is mostly smashing and lethal, but "that's the most resisted damage in the game". Let see if you have been paying attention. After Weaken, Envenom and Noxious Gas do you really believe anything is going to be resisting you? Black Scorpion's armor won't resist that. Trust me, smashing & lethal resistance is nothing to worry about late game for a thug/poison. Super Arachnoids (like Biff) do take a while to cut through, but you have them debuffed so they are not that big of a threat. I am going to put out the pistol power info, but it is for reference only: do not take them. Unless your L49 and you really want dual pistols.

It took me playing bots to really get this to sink in. Do not get attached your thugs. If they die, so what, resummon some more. Yes, equipping and upgrading are a pain, but let's face facts. The arsonist is going to die often. He generates a lot of hate and pays for it. Keep your brute, and enforcers alive. If they die just resummon them. Late game the tier one thugs are for bodyguard first and damage second. If you have to just fall back and regroup. Just don't break back trying to keep all six in the green. The enforcers are what you want fully upgraded. The bruiser can hold his own without the upgrades. The arsonist is the first thug after the enforcers that need upgrading.

Call Thugs [L1]: Calls forth one to three Thugs (depending on your level) to do your bidding. The third Thug you gain will be an Arsonist. Thugs use Dual Pistols and can be taught additional pistol attacks. You may only have 3 Thugs under your control at any given time. If you attempt to call more Thugs, you can only replace the ones you have lost in battle. If you already have three, the power will fail.

Brawl
Resistance
Super Leap

Pistol - thugs
Accuracy bonus: 1.1
Range: 70 feet
Endurance: 5.2
Recharge: 2 seconds
Molotov Cocktail - Arsonist
Accuracy bonus: 1
Range: 70
Endurance: 10.4
Recharge: 6
Resistance - Arsonist
27.39% Resistance(Fire) to Self for 10.25 seconds

At levels (18-32) your arsonist is not the smartest guy in the world. He has a tendency to run off into melee. This is due to he only has two attacks Molotov Cocktail and Brawl. After the L32 upgrade he has a full ranged attack chain and his inner pyromaniac really takes over. The days of running into melee are pretty much over.

Note: the thugs have an inherent 1.1 accuracy with pistols.

Enforcers [L12]: Calls forth one (L12) to two (L24) Thug Enforcers to do your bidding. Thug Enforcers carry a Sub-machine Gun, are possess good leadership skills. Their weapon of choice is an UZI, and can be equipped to carry up to 2 at once. You may only have 2 Thug Enforcers under your control at any given time. If you attempt to call more Enforcers, you can only replace the ones you have lost in battle. If you already have two, the power will fail.

Brawl
Resistance
Effect 27.39% Resistance (Lethal) to Self for 10.25 seconds
Super Leap
Maneuvers
DefBuf: 7.174% (L12) --> 8.466% (L50)
Range: 30 feet
Burst
Accuracy bonus: 1
Range: 80
Endurance: 4.37
Recharge: 3
Heavy Burst
Accuracy bonus: 1.05
Range: 80
Endurance: 6.86
Recharge: 6

These guys are your backbone, and they hold everything together. They are mean and all business. They eventually have all three leadership powers. At L50 they have Maneuvers at 8.466% (0.034 * ( 2 + 0.01 * (50-1) ) = 0.08466). Let's get a questions out of the way now.
Numbers provided by _Castle_
Enforcer leadership affects your thugs and any teammate's thugs in range.
Their leadership radius is 30'. Which half of your supremacy and leadership (you will take leadership) range of 60'.
Total possible Maneuvers: (8.466 * 1.6) * 2 = ~27%.
Realistic Maneuvers value: (8.466 * 1.4) * 2 = ~23.7%.
Most of the time you will want your enforcers and thugs all grouped together.
Do I need to go into spreading your pets out when there are a lot of incoming AoE's?
Pistol: Quickly fires a round from one of your heavy automatic pistols. Damage is average, but the fire rate is very fast.

Damage: 30.59 Lethal Damage
Recharge: 1.2 Seconds
Range: 80 feet
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Recharge: 3s
Endurance: 6.5

Dual Wield: Fires both pistols at once at a time target. Firing both pistols at once is slower than a single shot, but deals more damage, and the target may get knocked down by the force of the impact.

Damage: 2 x 20.19 Lethal Damage over 0.30 seconds
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Recharge: 6 Seconds
Range: 80 feet
Activation: 1.2s
Endurance: 8.58
Knock back: 1.063 (25% chance)

Most useful of the pistol attacks. If you have a spare slot at L49 and want pistols take this one.

Equip Thugs [L6]: Equip your Thug Henchmen with better ammo, weapons and training. This power permanently bestows new weapons and abilities to one Thug Henchman. The powers gained are unique and dependent upon the target Thug Henchman. This power only works on your Thug Henchmen and you can only Equip any given Thug Henchman once.

Thugs:
Dual Wield
Accuracy 1.1
Range 70 feet
Cast Time 1.2 seconds
Recharge Time 6 seconds
Endurance Cost 6.86
Effect 2 * 29.36 Lethal Damage over 0.30 seconds
Effect 1.329 Knock back to Target (25% chance)

Arsonist:
Spit Fire (flame thrower)
Accuracy 1.2
Range 40 feet
Cast Time 2.83 seconds
Recharge Time 16 seconds
Endurance Cost 15.18

Enforcer:
Tactics - 3% ToHit
UZI Burst
Accuracy 1.1
Range 80 feet
Cast Time 1.53 seconds
Recharge Time 4 seconds
Endurance Cost 5.2
Effect 3 * 14.68 Lethal Damage over 0.70 seconds
Effect -5% Defense to Target for 5 seconds

UZI Cone Blast
Accuracy 1.1
Range 60 feet
Cast Time 3.03 seconds
Recharge Time 10 seconds
Endurance Cost 10.4
Effect Area Cone Arc 20 degrees
Max Targets Hit 10
Effect 6 * 12.01 Lethal Damage over 1.60 seconds
Effect -5% Defense to Target for 7 seconds

UZI Heavy Burst
Accuracy 1.1
Range 80 feet
Cast Time 2.1 seconds
Recharge Time 8 seconds
Endurance Cost 8.53
Effect 6 * 12.01 Lethal Damage over 1.60 seconds
Effect -5% Defense to Target for 5 seconds

Bruiser:
Haymaker
Accuracy 1
Range 5 feet
Cast Time 1.5 seconds
Recharge Time 8 seconds
Endurance Cost 8.53
Effects Source Level 50 Pet
Effect 91.2 Smashing Damage
Effect 0.67 Knockback to Target (60% chance) if (target = critter)
Effect 0.67 Knockback to Target (60% chance) if (target = player)

Hand Clap
Accuracy: 0.8
Cast time: 1.23 seconds
Recharge time: 30 seconds
Endurance Cost: 13
Effect Area: Sphere
Radius: 15 feet
max Targets Hit: 10
Effects Source Level 50 Pet
Effect 11.92 second Stun (magnitude 2) to Target if (target = critter)
Effect 11.92 second Stun (magnitude 1) to Target (50% chance) if (target = critter)
Effect 7.957 second Stun (magnitude 2) to Target if (target = player)
Effect 4.154 Knockback to Target if (target = critter)
Effect 4.154 Knockback to Target if (target = player)

Empty Clips [L8]: You empty the clips of both your pistols in an arc of suppression fire. This attack can blast multiple foes in the affected cone area, and has a small chance of knocking some foes down.

Damage: 3 x 12.23 Lethal Damage over 0.70 seconds
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Max Targets: 10
Angle: 30°
Radius: 40 feet
Range: 50 feet
Activation: 1.83 seconds
Recharge: 8 seconds
Endurance: 18.98
Knock back: 1.063 (10% chance)

Very cool looking animation, and that's about it.

Call Enforcer [L12]: Calls forth one (L12) to two (L24) Thug Enforcers to do your bidding. Thug Enforcers carry a Sub-machine Gun, and possess good leadership skills. Their weapon of choice is an UZI, and can be equipped to carry up to 2 at once. You may only have 2 Thug Enforcers under your control at any given time.

Range: 60 feet
Cast Time: 1.67 seconds
Recharge Time: 90 seconds
Endurance: 19.5

Gang War [L18]: Calls a gang of 10 or so Thug Posse to come to your aid for a brief while. Posse are not like your true Henchman. They cannot be given direct commands, nor will they appear in your pet window. You must select an enemy target to attack first before calling these Thugs. Posse are many, but they are very weak, and are only equipped with the most basic weapons. Although they will follow you, they are not as loyal as your Henchmen, and they will only stick around for a few minutes before taking off.

Range: 60 feet
Cast Time: 1.67 seconds
Recharge Time: 10 Minutes (Note: 5 min with 2 Recharge SO's and Hasten)
Endurance: 13

Gang War is a fun and useful power (can be a lag bomb though). This is great when you want to overwhelm a target, lay down a meat shield, freak out a hero player, and/or use their taunt to divert attention from you and your thugs. Slotting for accuracy is more important than damage. They are -3 to you! So fighting a +3 boss they are -6 to the boss. You want them to hit so they draw attention away from players and pets.

I didn't see this until L48, but it was a sight to behold: Leaderships triple stacked with vengeance going. They just overwhelmed everything in the area. Also, my usual LRSF team has seven players with assault and tactics, with a couple of maneuvers thrown in for good measure. They don't last long on the final fight, but they are very effective while they are alive.

Call Bruiser [L26]: Calls one massive Bruiser. He is strong, tough and has a mean temper. As a Brute, he will generate Fury and deal more damage the longer the combat lasts. His Super Strength powers means he favors hand-to-hand combat. He has resistance to Lethal and Smashing Damage and some resistance to Fire and Cold Damage. You may only have 1 Bruiser under your control at any given time. If you attempt to summon another Bruiser, the power will fail.

Range: 60 feet
Cast Time: 1.67 seconds
Recharge Time: 120 seconds
Endurance: 19.5

This is your typical game changing power. Now you have a full set of pets with your massive damage dealer. Go ahead and switch your reputation to Relentless.

Upgrade Equipment [L32]: Permanently Upgrade the most advanced ammo, weapons and training to one Thug Henchman. The Upgraded Thug will gain new powers, weapons and abilities. The powers gained are unique and dependent upon the target Thug Henchman that is Upgraded. This power only works on your Thug Henchmen and you can only Upgrade the Equipment of any given Thug Henchman once.

Range: 30 feet
Cast Time: 1.67 seconds
Recharge Time: 10 seconds
Endurance: 22.75

Thugs:
Empty Clips:
Damage: 3 * 17.8 Lethal Damage over 0.70 seconds
Max Targets: 10
Angle: 30°
Radius: 40 feet
Range: 50 feet
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Activation: 1.83 seconds
Recharge: 10 seconds
Endurance: 15.18
Knock back: 1.329 (10% chance)

Arsonist:
Fire Bomb
Damage: 44.49 Fire Damage
11 * 2.67 Fire Damage over 5.25 seconds
Max Targets: 10
Range: 70 feet
Radius: 15 foot sphere
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Cast Time: 1.37 seconds
Recharge: 16 seconds
Endurance: 7.8
Knock back: 1.329 (10% chance)

Enforcer:
Assault: +5% damage with 30 foot radius

Blast_Clip:
Accuacy: 1.05
Damage: 40.04 Lethal Damage, AOE Attack
Max Targets: 16
Radius: 15 foot sphere
Range: 70 feet
Cast Time: 2.5 seconds
Recharge: 20 seconds
Endurance: 15.18

Dual_UZIs:
Damage: 17 * 7.12 Lethal Damage over 5.00 seconds
-5% Defense to Target for 7 seconds
Accuracy Bonus: 1.1
Max Targets: 10
Range: 50 feet
Angle: 35°
Cast Time: 3.03 seconds
Recharge: 20 seconds
Endurance: 15.18
Knock back: 1.329 (10% chance)
UZI_Burst:
UZI_Heavy_Burst:

Bruiser:
Knockout_Blow:
Damage: 197.97 Smashing Damage
Accuracy: 1.2
Range: 13 feet
Cast Time: 2.23 seconds
Recharge: 25 seconds
Endurance: 18.51
Held: 14.9 second Held (mag 3) if (target = critter)
Held: 9.938 second Held (mag 3) if (target = player)
Knockup: 6.231

Hurl:
Damage: 91.2 Smashing
Accuracy: 1
Range: 80 feet
Cast Time: 3.83 seconds
Recharge Time: 8 seconds
Endurance: 9.36
Knock back: 6.231 (50% chance)
-Fly: mag 1 to Target for 15 seconds

Foot Stomp:
Damage: 78.97 PBAoE Smashing
Accuracy: 1
Max Targets Hit 10
Cast Time: 2.1 seconds
Recharge: 20 seconds
Endurance: 18.51
Attack Types AOE Attack, Smashing Attack
Radius 15 foot Sphere
Knock back: 0.67 (80% chance)

The long road to L32 just paid off and well worth the ride. You are now a damage machine. You have no reason now not to change your reputation to Relentless. Remember those demolitionist that gave you fits in Sharkhead you now have one on your side with the Arsonist and his fire bombs. The Enforcers will be auditioning for the next Matrix movie with how many shells they leave on the ground. You will not get tired of the constant sound of Uzi's buzzing away. As for eye candy who doesn't like the trench coats, chains, sun glasses and dew rags. Everyone knows you mean business now.

Please note, as of this writing, the bruiser's AI is [bugged|flawed|needs adjusting] so he will prefer rock throw over other attacks, and he may wait for slow attack to recharge instead of using a lesser damage attack. This can be over come by using the goto command to force him near the target. Personally, I have a bind on my left mouse button for this: [/bind shift+lbutton petcom_name Cyanide goto aggressive]. This will be fixed sometime in the future:
<ul type="square">[/i]
Re: Official Thread: Pet AI issues
#7338180 - Tue Jan 02 2007 06:15 PM

Mastermind 'Bruiser' upgrade issues:
It's true -- the Bruiser becomes more difficult to use as you upgrade him due to AI idiosyncrasies. I have an idea on how to work around this, partially, that I'll be putting in once I can find time to test it thoroughly to make sure it doesn't blow up things.

_Castle_[/i][/list]---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Play Style
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before you leave breakout or take your first mission: right click on the follow button (in your power tray) with the arrow. Click edit and change it from follow aggressive to follow defensive. This gives you a single click to body guard mode.

Bodyguard mode is when any pet is within your supremacy range (60', grey buff icon on pets), and in defensive/follow. Now any attack will be equally distributed to all pets and you will take two shares. Example you have three pets in body guard, and you get hit with 100 points of damage. Divide that by five (3 pets + your 2 shares). Each pet takes 20 points damage and you take 40 points damage. The MM has the lowest hit points in the game with a .75 multiplier so you want to be in body guard most of the time. With six pets you can out tank a tank due to the distribution of damage. However, if you get caught out of bodyguard by either letting you pets get too far away, not in defensive/follow, or TP'd away from you pets in PVP you will die with a head spinning quickness. Bodyguard is the MM's greatest asset learn to use it all of the time. If your pets are getting wiped get those tier 1 pets back so they can take your damage while you get your enforcers and brute back.

As a poison your strength is in attacking single targets. Early on learn to pull with weaken and envenom. Weaken first so the chance of getting hit by the alpha drops dramatically. Make sure you pull in bodyguard mode. Nothing like taking the alpha and getting blown back 40 feet with just a minor dent your health.

Levels 1-11

Get used to pulling, debuffing and controlling your thugs. Try not to buy any enhancements except maybe DefDeBuff and ToHit DeBuff which do not drop that often. Sell as much as you can for DO's at level 12. Your basic strategy that won't change throughout the game is use envenom/weaken and let you thugs go to work. On your mayhem missions do the Arsons! Start now on getting your Force of Nature accolade requirements. You need ten Arsons as one of the requirements and they don't always show at low levels. Later on when you are doing a mayhem specifically for the Arson it is very frustrating when it does not show up.

Read your History plaques, and get you exploration badges in each zone. To find these goto http://www.vidiotmaps.com/maps.php Vidiotmaps.

Levels 12-17

Life isn't to bad now you have an equal level enforcer and two -1 thugs. Arachnos Huntsmen are your biggest problem. Venturing into Bloody Bay is exciting since you are auto-leveled to L25 and you get to see how much better things will be when you get your second Enforcer and third thug. That will last until you meet your first hero who is probably mal'd down to 25 has all of his powers fully slotted with SO's and probably with a few Hami-Os for good measure. If you can debuff them at this point you have a slim shot but expect to get you head handed to you at this level. You should wait on PVP for awhile until you can get some more slots and some SO's. Try on the off hours to have someone show you how to get Shivans.

At level 15 look for Willie Wheeler (Cap au Diablo) as a contact (L15-L20). Doing his arcs will give you the Paragon of Vice accomplishment badge. You will need this for your Marshal Accolade.

Level 17, if you have not already done so, now is the time to stick an extra Acc in the the thugs. At level 18 you will get your arsonist, and with three thugs they will drop to two levels below you, so accuracy becomes an issue.

Levels 18-23

This is you roughest patch with one enforcer and three -2 thugs. The arsonist will keep running into melee and dying. Sharkhead and it's demolitionist will give you nightmares. At level 22 SO's will give you sticker shock. However, at level 20 you picked up Stamina and endurance problems aren't so bad now. Once you hit L20 look to get Lorenz Ansaldo (Sharkhead) as a contact and do his arcs before Level 25. He will give the Strikebreaker badge as on of the requirements for your Megalomaniac Accolade later on.

Level 24

Life just got good again. You now have your second Enforcer and you can tell the difference they're leadership adds along with your assault and tactics. With five thugs now you can safely take on two targets at once. Have you enforcers attack one and the thugs attack another while you debuff them.

This is also the powers you will always have in Bloody Bay which auto-levels to 25.

Level 26

Your bruiser arrives on his motorcycle and things change. Taking on three mobs is not a big deal now. Send your bruiser and Enforcers in for Bosses while keeping your thugs in bodyguard.

Get your Lorekeeper badge and unlock Archmage Tarixus (L25-L29). You need him to get Soul Taker badge before you out level him. You need Soul Taker as part of the requirements for Demonic Shield which is an accolade power that gives you a huge defensive shield for one minute. There is no real excuse for not getting this before L30. It comes in really handy for those times when all of you pets die and you need to escape.

Levels 32 - 37

After a long six level of waiting to get to L32 you finally get your upgrade. It is everything you had hoped it would be, but does it use the endurance.

Level 38

You get Noxious Gas and I have already said everything. Slot it for three recharges when you hit L39.

Levels 30-39

While you are in Nerva beg, bribe and plead to join any team fighting Infernal. Why? because you need 100 Hero kills to get you Hero Killer badge. Every demon he summons counts towards the badge. Hero Killer and the Fire Bug badge take a lot of work and time to get. You need them for the Force of Nature (FoN) accolade. FoN is like a huge speed boost for 60 seconds. It allows you to walk into a mission door and in less than 40 seconds be completely set up and ready to roll with a full endurance bar. It is a huge deal for masterminds.

Levels 40-44

Patron time. (I think masterminds get screwed on the patron powers as none of them give you another pet. The one thing I would want is a Mu with an area heal. As of this writing it is not going to happen and all of the AT's get screwed so deal with it) I selected Black Scorpion for the Scorpion shield and -fly from the web attacks. I don't look to PVP, but when I am doing a shivan or Nuke run you want to be able to knock down any flier that get in your way. I really hate having to draw out the mace every time. Which one you pick is up to you so do you research.

Leveling now goes into high gear. I averaged less than six hours a level till 50. You really need to be careful and not out-level your 40-44 contacts.

Levels 45-50

You are now eligible to start doing Lord Recluse Strike Forces. Start collecting your Synthetic Hami-O's.

Character Build

This is my final build. This build is set up for doing LRSF's it will also do nicely in PVP but it is not optimized for a PVP build. For PVP I might go with TP Foe and TP or Combat Jumping and Super Jump with an additional accuracy in everything.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: poison_pill_50_final
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Poison
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Call Thugs==> Acc(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(3)Dmg(7)Acc(17)DefDeBuf(37)
01) --> Alkaloid==> Heal(1)EndRdx(7)Heal(15)Rechg(17)Heal(31)Rechg(36)
02) --> Envenom==> Acc(2)DefDeBuf(5)DefDeBuf(9)EndRdx(11)DefDeBuf(33)Rechg(34)
04) --> Weaken==> Acc(4)TH_DeBuf(5)TH_DeBuf(9)EndRdx(11)TH_DeBuf(33)Rechg(34)
06) --> Hover==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Equip Thugs==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Neurotoxic Breath==> Acc(10)Slow(19)Slow(31)Slow(36)EndRdx(37)Rechg(39)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Acc(12)Dmg(13)Dmg(13)Dmg(15)DefBuf(23)DefBuf(23)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)Fly(46)
16) --> Swift==> Fly(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)Heal(19)Heal(36)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Assault==> EndRdx(22)
24) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(24)TH_Buf(25)TH_Buf(25)TH_Buf(29)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Acc(26)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(29)Hold(40)EndRdx(43)
28) --> Gang War==> Acc(28)Acc(43)Rechg(43)Rechg(45)Dmg(46)
30) --> Paralytic Poison==> Acc(30)Hold(31)Hold(33)Hold(34)Rechg(37)Rechg(40)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Rechg(32)EndRdx(40)EndRdx(46)
35) --> Elixir of Life==> Rechg(35)
38) --> Noxious Gas==> Rechg(38)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)
41) --> Scorpion Shield==> EndRdx(41)DefBuf(42)DefBuf(42)DefBuf(42)EndRdx(50)
44) --> Web Envelope==> Acc(44)Range(45)Range(45)
47) --> Web Cocoon==> Acc(47)Hold(48)Hold(48)Hold(48)Rechg(50)Rechg(50)
49) --> Vengeance==> DefBuf(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Supremacy==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

Notes:

Levels 1-25 are so I have tactics and stamina available for Bloody Bay. Gang War and Paralytic Poison are interchangeable. At level 38 I had the following accolades for Warburg Nuke runs: Demonic, Invader, High Pain Threshold giving me an extra 10% HP, 5% endurance, and a tier nine shield. Almost had Headline Stealer before I leveled.

On my way to 50 I took Vengeance at L44 so I could start doing LRSF's at 45. When I hit fifty I moved back to L49 so I could get Web Cocoon six slotted.

Your Patron is your decision. The reason I choose Black Scorpion is due the Scorpion Shield, and the two -fly attacks. Web Envelope is slotted with 1 Acc and two range to knock down fliers up 116' away. It is situational and does not stack with any other power so it gets three slots. Web Cocoon on the other hand is a mag 3 hold which stacks with Paralytic Poison's hold. With three hold and two recharge you can get a perma (Recharge = 18.19, Duration = 19.72) hold on LT and below. Stack it with PP you can hold bosses (-6 hold resistance) and AV's (when the purple triangles of doom are not up).

For those who do not know you get a free respec after you selec

Selah · 01-31-2007 09:58 AM

very good guide, and great breakdown of the powers. a friend of mine pvps heavily with his thugs/poison, and his build is pretty similar to what you described in your pvp blurb. he took tp foe+tp and hasten+ss (hasten is a big help in getting thugs equipped quickly, and getting the portions of the debuffs that do stack, stacked quickly). he also skipped antidote in favor of stimulant for added fear protection, and to unlock aid self. he also has quite a few HOs from the LRSF slotted, which helps since most powers have many aspects worth slotting. something creative he did was to slot a membrane and cytoskeleton into his enforcers to lessen the end cost and reduce the rech of the power itself (which slotting a recharge isn't an option, so the membrane is extremely nice there) and also, into his thugs because of the HO bug, something that buffs tohit, will also buff a tohit debuff aspect...if that makes any sense at all.

again, great guide overall, and since you mention running the LRSF with it, you might think about adding ideal, HO slotting in the future. i hate to sound nitpicky, but there are a few gramatical mistakes as well, but all in all, 5 stars for sure, one of the better guides i've read .

Poison_Pill · 01-31-2007 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
very good guide, and great breakdown of the powers. a friend of mine pvps heavily with his thugs/poison, and his build is pretty similar to what you described in your pvp blurb. he took tp foe+tp and hasten+ss (hasten is a big help in getting thugs equipped quickly, and getting the portions of the debuffs that do stack, stacked quickly). he also skipped antidote in favor of stimulant for added fear protection, and to unlock aid self. he also has quite a few HOs from the LRSF slotted, which helps since most powers have many aspects worth slotting. something creative he did was to slot a membrane and cytoskeleton into his enforcers to lessen the end cost and reduce the rech of the power itself (which slotting a recharge isn't an option, so the membrane is extremely nice there) and also, into his thugs because of the HO bug, something that buffs tohit, will also buff a tohit debuff aspect...if that makes any sense at all.

again, great guide overall, and since you mention running the LRSF with it, you might think about adding ideal, HO slotting in the future. i hate to sound nitpicky, but there are a few gramatical mistakes as well, but all in all, 5 stars for sure, one of the better guides i've read .

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Selah.

I have two Lysosomes in my enforcers now to take advantage of the buff/debuff bugs. Was your friend able to verify that the Membranes do indeed affect the enforcer's attack rate and not the summoning rate? I also have two Peroxisomes in my bruiser which are great. Once I get some more HO's I'll add an addendum with the Holy Grail to HO slotting your thug/poison. Although I know pretty much how I am going to slot them now.

Poison Pill

Selah · 01-31-2007 12:52 PM

well, i don't think he did any testing with recharge rates of the thugs/enforcers themselves, but he was more concerned with the recharge of the summon power, in case he had to resummon mid-fight for PvP. i noticed, back in the good ol' days that slotting my fire imps with 6 recharges didn't speed up their attack rate, but just recharge of the summon power itself, so i'm guessing it's the same effect here. i know it cut down on that recharge time of the summon power itself for sure though. it's the same thing as vengence. it doesn't accept recharge reductions, but slotting a membrane in it does make it recharge faster. but the real gem here was him slotting the same exact HOs in 2 different powers that don't do the same thing, and still have them buffing something. the cytos went in both, for enforcers, to reduce the end cost, and to buff tohit, but they went into thugs to reduce end cost and debuff defense. why that works, i'll never know, but until they fix it, it's a nice little perk .

Scarlet_Phantom · 02-01-2007 11:09 AM

Great guide. Just one question is Poison Trap the same as /Traps? If so I'm planning on grabbing it. With my Merc/Traps I just set it at a corner or where I think a mob might run, then aggro the group by having each tier pet target a different foe and get out of line of sight. The group usually runs right over Poison Trap. It's also great for ambushes. You can also plant it right in melee when your pets have their attention.

Just one thing in your life at 24, you say you can safely take on two targets at once now. This can be done alot earlier. I started soloing missions on Relentless with the Baby New Year mission at lvl 12. With four man spawns I would Envenom the biggest threat and have my Thugs concentrate fire on it, Weaken the second biggest threat then try and catch all four in Neurotoxic Breath and spam Alkaloid when needed. And hit the primary taget with "Sands Of Mu" when I remembered to do it, hehe. The Tsoo have proven the biggest problem on Relentless so far. Trops and Sorcerers, meh. Just dinged 22 and finally picked up Gang War, what a fun power to add to the mix.

Way to many alts.

High Beam · 02-04-2007 12:28 PM

This is a very useful guide. Thanks for putting it up.

High Beam - 50 Blaster Energy/Ice - 1228 Badges
Munitions Mistress - 50 Mercs/Traps
Many Other 50's, Too Many Alts, All On Freedom
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should!

Alkaiser · 02-04-2007 05:04 PM

IIRC, the two Poison Traps aren't the same; Traps' version has a Hold / vomit while Poison's version has a sleep and END drain.

VoodooCompany · 02-04-2007 06:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just one question is Poison Trap the same as /Traps?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. /Traps is a hold, while the one in the Poison set is a sleep.

totally didn't see the above post before I replied......

I've already forgotten about most of you

Purge · 02-05-2007 11:49 PM

I absolutely love the guide. It's really in depth and does cover a lot of things that I had not thought about or valued as well.

How would you build for PVP?

I basically have the same power choices and same slotting, except I didn't get leadership because of detoggling reasons, and other more important pool powers, like medicine. This causes the necessity for 2 accuracies in attacks, and this makes me curious how you would slot:

Neurotoxic Breath
Thugs
Enforcers
Bruiser

Oh, and how do you feel about gang war in PVP? I have a feeling that it isn't all that useful. The recharge time is too high in my eyes.

Selah · 02-06-2007 07:11 AM

i'm no expert for the AT, much less either set, but i've pvp'd with my friend extensively, and observed several of his matches too. he has tp foe, and his major use of Gang War (aside from the dmg aspect) is to help block people in. tp foe into a corner, with GW waiting, then use a black scorpion web nade so they can't jump, debuff with NB and then wail on them. GW is basically a living, attacking, wall of people. it has it's uses, but you gotta get creative with it. he said he wouldn't dare drop it. hope this helps .

MidnightJacket · 02-09-2007 11:19 AM

One great tactic with gang war I saw the other day for PVP...

Make your character look exactly like a basic thug, summon gang war... wah lah, you have created your very own "where is waldo" search.

The_Viceroy · 02-12-2007 01:06 PM

Yeah, I did that on victory, I also have a few costume so if my cover's blown I can run away and swap to look like my enforcer or another thug and keep them guessing. Here's the thing about the "Where's Waldo" Thug MM, your name. Thus I named my guy 'Paragon of Vice' and wear the badge of the same name, set up a macro to rename all my thugs to match. Now you got 7 guys all with the same name. As long as they didn't get lucky and tab onto me, it generally buys me an extra 10-20 seconds in PvP.

MickleThePickle · 02-12-2007 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I did that on victory, I also have a few costume so if my cover's blown I can run away and swap to look like my enforcer or another thug and keep them guessing. Here's the thing about the "Where's Waldo" Thug MM, your name. Thus I named my guy 'Paragon of Vice' and wear the badge of the same name, set up a macro to rename all my thugs to match. Now you got 7 guys all with the same name. As long as they didn't get lucky and tab onto me, it generally buys me an extra 10-20 seconds in PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahaha thats brutal!

I don't know if I would go that far, but I will devote a costume slot to look like a regular thug.

Scarlet_Phantom · 02-12-2007 07:41 PM

Shame that MM Icon next to your name makes it's super easy to spot you. I've never had any real problem targeting the MM who tries to hide behind a Pet name. Takes the same amount of time to target as any other MM. Just look for the icon.

Way to many alts.

The_Viceroy · 02-13-2007 01:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shame that MM Icon next to your name makes it's super easy to spot you. I've never had any real problem targeting the MM who tries to hide behind a Pet name. Takes the same amount of time to target as any other MM. Just look for the icon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shhhh!!! Quit ruining it for the rest of us!!!

Seriously though, I know how to spot them too, but I still giggle every once in a while when a hero would broadcast "Where's the MM?"

Oh and credit to my friend Doc, he was the one who gave me the inspiration to create the "Where's Waldo" MM, and he managed to macro an choriagraphy song and dance for his thugs to do the YMCA. Now if only I wasn't so busy so I can set up a macro for my guys to do Shakespeare's MacBeth. So Doc was lucky enough to get the name Enforcer2 for his thug MM and looked like the tier 2 with a 3rd eye. Even with that people still had trouble telling him from his pets.

But yeah, to make a long story short (too late!!!) that mm icon is a dead giveaway. Then again, so is the fact I'm spitting poison at the hero, granted that can be done if I maneuver behind them and hope I'm out of their camera angle. But the biggest giveaway is the fact I have the SJ aura animation on as well. And honestly, that one in front which all the others are follow is always the mm. Perhaps we can start a training program to run around and use goto at the same time to make a decoy thug out in front posing as the leading mm?

Poison_Pill · 02-22-2007 12:08 PM

After talking to Technician Naylor he agreed to send me back in time to an alternate reality of the Justce Universe. Back to the point where I met Kalinda for the first time. Endowed with the wisdom I have already achieved I was able reach a threat level of ten in four hours.

I would highly suggest to changing your Notoriety to Vicious at or right before L6. After you complete the "Eliminate the Infected" mission you should be near L6 and you are very close to fateweaver to change your Notoriety at that point. Just do the missions and very little street sweeping is necessary. With two thugs, weaken and envenom you can now take down equal level bosses without a problem. Go to Port Oaks and start your newspaper career of defeating bosses and stealing items.

Poison Pill

SincereAgape · 03-21-2007 07:39 AM

Great guide thanks Poison!

Navix · 04-23-2007 08:44 PM

Great guide Poison, it's helped me alot on my MM.
but two Questions.
1) According to City of Data, there actually is a hold component to Poison's Poison trap, as well as an End drain. did they just make a mistake?

2) According to my friend, I9 will bring some changes to poison, and that the new Hami-raid will almost /require/ Poison MM's who have antidote for the newly added fear resistance. Any idea of how that might change the importance of getting Antidote? If so, when should i get it/ how should I slot it?

Poison_Pill · 04-24-2007 02:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Great guide Poison, it's helped me alot on my MM.
but two Questions.
1) According to City of Data, there actually is a hold component to Poison's Poison trap, as well as an End drain. did they just make a mistake?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pets> Poison_Poison_Gas > Poison Gas
Choke
You are caught within a Poison Gas Trap. The poison is making you choke.
Effect Area Sphere Radius 25 feet

Level 50 Pet Effects
11.92 second Sleep (magnitude 3) to Target (after 0.25 second delay) if (target = critter)
8.94 second Sleep (magnitude 3) to Target (after 0.25 second delay) if (target = player)

I will be trying TP Foe and Poison Trap in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]
2) According to my friend, I9 will bring some changes to poison, and that the new Hami-raid will almost /require/ Poison MM's who have antidote for the newly added fear resistance. Any idea of how that might change the importance of getting Antidote? If so, when should i get it/ how should I slot it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I will have to do a few raids, and see how it will work. Probably drop the two web attacks for a Hamidon build.
[speculate]
Sending in a speed boosted, EoE'd (Bruisers+Noxious Gas & Shivans) will be a bigger part of it.
[/speculate]

Poison Pill

Sarrate · 04-28-2007 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Noxious Gas: You can infect one of your Henchmen, surrounding him with a Noxious Gas. All foes near the infected Henchmen will be overcome with the Noxious Gas. Their Defense, Accuracy, Damage and Damage resistance will all be reduced. Additionally, there is a chance than any affected humanoid enemy will become violently ill. Even the mightiest foe will stop dead in their tracks, and left helpless as he empties the contents of his stomach.

Level: 38
Range: 30
End: 22.75
Duration: 45 Seconds
Recharge: 300 seconds

This is it, this is why you take thugs and poison. Noxious Gas works when applied to a pet and creates a 30' gaseous cloud around the pet. It only lasts 45 seconds so the pet needs to be up close and personal with the target and stay there to get the biggest affect. Since the bruiser works best when he's in the middle of the action it creates the best synergy of the two powers. It may take a level or two to really get the hang of it down to maximize the effectiveness so give it a chance. Now let's look at the numbers to see why NG is such a big deal:

-10% ToHit to Target for 20 seconds

-20% Smashing Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Lethal Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Fire Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Cold Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Energy Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% negative_Energy Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Toxic Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds
-20% Psionic Enhancement to Target for 20 seconds

-20% Defense to Target for 20 seconds

-30% Resistance(Smashing) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Lethal) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Fire) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Cold) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Energy) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(negative_Energy) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Toxic) to Target for 20 seconds
-30% Resistance(Psionic) to Target for 20 seconds

Effect 1000 Held to Target for 4 seconds ([u]0% chance[u]) [Non-resistible]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just a little curious about that last blurb. It says 0% chance, but I have no doubt it does go off. Can you make any sense of it?

lucas · 04-29-2007 11:37 PM

does everyone's bruiser start attacking the NG after its put on them? if so it would be nice if they fixed that since combined with a non melee bruiser (hand clapping and rock throwing) its not working that great. Granted its easy to move the bruiser around, just sucks to have to do that all the time.

Do all pets start attacking the NG or just the bruiser?

The Kronos has a hold n00b!

Inquizitor · 04-30-2007 04:32 AM

Thanks for the guide. It answers some questions I've had about my Thug/Poison MM

TwinBlades_01 · 06-06-2007 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At levels (18-32) your arsonist is not the smartest guy in the world. He has a tendency to run off into melee. This is due to he only has two attacks Molotov Cocktail and Brawl. After the L32 upgrade he has a full ranged attack chain and his inner pyromaniac really takes over. The days of running into melee are pretty much over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... my arsonist has a breath of fire-type attack (Edit: I am level 23 ATM), is that a new upgrade for him? And I have to worry about my other thugs getting in melee range more than him, my arsonist just dies because he does too much damage over too big of an area.

Otherwise, great guide. It helped me a lot

peacemind · 06-26-2007 03:31 PM

Gotta say, I'm loving this toon so far! Just started my thug/psn, currently lvl 9, and been sticking mostly to the build PP gives (switched equip to lvl 6, and replaced hover with Recall Friend for now). This is the first MM that I've really felt comfortable soloing relentless with at such an early level. Thanks for the great advice!

*bows*

This is not a signature.

diseased_NA · 07-08-2007 10:37 PM

Just a quick question, why the Defdebuf in call thugs? I know you can slot it but which of their powers/attacks has that secondary effect? All I see is knockback on all their stuff.