I didn't check, but going by 'History Repeats itself', I'm wondering if Dwarf got changed too.
Freeedom
H: Victra Defile (Rad/Dark) & Hot Hits (Fire/SD)
V: Spike Cream (NW) & Crescent Wind (Nin/Storm)
Sub Hero Inc ARC: 1541
--If you don't like what I have to say, it was probably a typo you are refering to.
People should read through the Taunt Guide for the current operation of Taunt, before asking questions.
Well I have a question prehaps someone can find the answer to. If you hit with an attack, say KO Blow, does that mean your taunt also hit? Or does it work that out seprately. And if it does work it out sperately does that mean I can miss with the attack but not the taunt part?
These questions are asked so that when I do sit down to test this over the next week I have a basic understanding of how its supposed to function:
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Defense will now apply to all Taunt powers in Player versus Player combat (Ranged, or AoE, where appropriate). This replaces the previous 50% chance to work. Players now have more control over how their taunt affects targets.
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This is fairly straightforward. I do wonder if this makes specific Taunt Resistance redundant, but I guess there is room now for people to have Taunt Resistance where appropriate, when they do not otherwise have appropriate DEF.
My major concern is that DEF vs this will be relegated to Super Reflexes, Force Field, Ninjitsu, and Pool powers. For example, no Tanker sets provide Ranged or AoE DEF.
Also does this mean that Taunt (the power, not the effect) is AoE in PvP (5 Target), whereas it wasn't before? Otherwise I couldn't see how AoE works against Taunt the Power, only ranged. This needs clarification.
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Increased chance to Taunt for Pool/Manipulation/Challenge in PvP.
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If I understand this correctly, it means that Challenge still has a % chance to work as well as being able to be defended against. As opposed to Taunt which is 100% chance to work, if it hits.
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Tanker, Scrapper and Brute Taunt powers will now accept Accuracy Enhancements. Note that these enhancements will have no effect in PvE, as the powers automatically hit PvE targets. The change is made strictly for PvP purposes.
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A bit annoying, my guess is most people won't bother to slot for Accuracy in Taunt, but you never know. It does raise some questions with the next section...
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Tanker Inherent Gauntlet now works in PvP. Single target powers have a chance of Taunting the target hit, while Area of Effect powers have a much smaller chance of Taunting all targets in the radius.
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So, instead of being 5-target, Gauntlet is single Target in PvP?
What about Taunt itself?
Instead of Taunting what's hit, AoE powers now have a separate AoE Taunt in PvP that is an all or nothing vs all Targets? This seems wrong. Right now powers like Icicles, Blazing Aura, and Mudpots all Taunt what they hit.
Or, are they trying to say, when an AoE hits a target, it has a chance to Taunt its targets as well?
If so, does the Taunt from an AoE require a separate to-hit roll per target?
Or do AoEs just work like in PvE, what is hit, is Taunted?
How about auto-hit powers like Chilling Embrace, Energy Absorption, and Invincibility? Do these auto-hit and then have a chance to Taunt what they hit? Or do they not Taunt at all?
If you slot an Accuracy into a power like Icicles or Blazing Aura, does it help the Taunt? (presuming the Taunt is a separate attack roll in PvP)
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These questions are asked so that when I do sit down to test this over the next week I have a basic understanding of how its supposed to function:
[ QUOTE ]
Defense will now apply to all Taunt powers in Player versus Player combat (Ranged, or AoE, where appropriate). This replaces the previous 50% chance to work. Players now have more control over how their taunt affects targets.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is fairly straightforward. I do wonder if this makes specific Taunt Resistance redundant, but I guess there is room now for people to have Taunt Resistance where appropriate, when they do not otherwise have appropriate DEF.
My major concern is that DEF vs this will be relegated to Super Reflexes, Force Field, Ninjitsu, and Pool powers. For example, no Tanker sets provide Ranged or AoE DEF.
Also does this mean that Taunt (the power, not the effect) is AoE in PvP (5 Target), whereas it wasn't before? Otherwise I couldn't see how AoE works against Taunt the Power, only ranged. This needs clarification.
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Increased chance to Taunt for Pool/Manipulation/Challenge in PvP.
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If I understand this correctly, it means that Challenge still has a % chance to work as well as being able to be defended against. As opposed to Taunt which is 100% chance to work, if it hits.
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Tanker, Scrapper and Brute Taunt powers will now accept Accuracy Enhancements. Note that these enhancements will have no effect in PvE, as the powers automatically hit PvE targets. The change is made strictly for PvP purposes.
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A bit annoying, my guess is most people won't bother to slot for Accuracy in Taunt, but you never know. It does raise some questions with the next section...
[ QUOTE ]
Tanker Inherent Gauntlet now works in PvP. Single target powers have a chance of Taunting the target hit, while Area of Effect powers have a much smaller chance of Taunting all targets in the radius.
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So, instead of being 5-target, Gauntlet is single Target in PvP?
What about Taunt itself?
Instead of Taunting what's hit, AoE powers now have a separate AoE Taunt in PvP that is an all or nothing vs all Targets? This seems wrong. Right now powers like Icicles, Blazing Aura, and Mudpots all Taunt what they hit.
Or, are they trying to say, when an AoE hits a target, it has a chance to Taunt its targets as well?
If so, does the Taunt from an AoE require a separate to-hit roll per target?
Or do AoEs just work like in PvE, what is hit, is Taunted?
How about auto-hit powers like Chilling Embrace, Energy Absorption, and Invincibility? Do these auto-hit and then have a chance to Taunt what they hit? Or do they not Taunt at all?
If you slot an Accuracy into a power like Icicles or Blazing Aura, does it help the Taunt? (presuming the Taunt is a separate attack roll in PvP)
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You know...I understood the Patch notes when I read them the first time. Not anymore.
How did you do that?
I think in the patch notes where it refers to a "chance to work" .... replace that with a "chance to hit". That may help you with your confusion. 
Thus ranged/AE defense will apply against the initial accuracy check for the Taunt to land. AE for AE Taunts, such as Tanker Taunt and Provoke, Ranged for ST Taunts, like Scrapper Taunt and Challenge.
I believe Taunt resistance shortens the duration of Taunt, like other mez resistance (not protection).
In the case of gauntlet, defense will not apply against punchvoke, because defense already applies against the attack in the first place. If the attack already landed, then defense can't do anything. From there, it's just a chance that you'll get taunted as a result of being hit, with Taunt Resistance applying normally.
Virtue Server
Red Fox Bravo - DM/Invul Scrapper
Tsynth - DB/WP Stalker
Stalker Dual Blades/Willpower Guide
The Quick and Dirty Guide to Dual Pistols
Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
Formerly "Back Alley Brawler"
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I do wonder if this makes specific Taunt Resistance redundant, but I guess there is room now for people to have Taunt Resistance where appropriate, when they do not otherwise have appropriate DEF.
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Taunt resistance is available to more people, as you noted, and also shortens the duration of taunt effects, as opposed to allowing you to avoid some of them. As Taunt Resistance remains uncounterable (while DEF can be countered by inspirations), I doubt Resistance to the power will become redundant.
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Also does this mean that Taunt (the power, not the effect) is AoE in PvP (5 Target), whereas it wasn't before? Otherwise I couldn't see how AoE works against Taunt the Power, only ranged. This needs clarification.
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At least when Kali tested her Ice Tanker against my Scrapper, taunt was an area of effect power, although the area was short and the chance to work kinda crippled it. Was that changed?
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Or, are they trying to say, when an AoE hits a target, it has a chance to Taunt its targets as well?
If so, does the Taunt from an AoE require a separate to-hit roll per target?
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From some very short testing yesterday, this seems to be the case.
When the area of effect power hits a target, the target has a chance - independent of yellow inspirations or Build Up = to be hit by the Taunt effect. Each target rolls for him or herself. At least, it was possible to taunt one Brute but not the Brute next to him/her, when neither had a toggle active.
Of course, it may be affected by +acc or +tohit and the streakbreaker's just broken, but I hope that isn't the case.
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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Yeah, I'm on board with this 10,000%. I don't even have a Tanker as my main, unlike the majority of respondants here so far, and I would never, ever consider doing that. PvP just isn't that important to me.
What that describes to me is another potential gulf that will dissuade casual PvP-ers from bothering, because dedicated PvP-ers will do things like this glady if it gives them advantage.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Taunt resistance is available to more people, as you noted, and also shortens the duration of taunt effects, as opposed to allowing you to avoid some of them. As Taunt Resistance remains uncounterable (while DEF can be countered by inspirations), I doubt Resistance to the power will become redundant.
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I meant conceptually, not technically. There is a fine line I understand, but using DEF is more elegant and in line with the game, and not YAM (Yet Another Mechanic) - this game has too many mehcanics.
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At least when Kali tested her Ice Tanker against my Scrapper, taunt was an area of effect power, although the area was short and the chance to work kinda crippled it. Was that changed?
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1v1? How can you test multiple targets in that case? Or are you specifically discussing that AoE DEF worked against it? That would require a few thousand to-hit rolls to be certain. Do you have that data?
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When the area of effect power hits a target, the target has a chance - independent of yellow inspirations or Build Up = to be hit by the Taunt effect. Each target rolls for him or herself. At least, it was possible to taunt one Brute but not the Brute next to him/her, when neither had a toggle active.
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Okay, but is that because its a single target, or multiple target? Was this Taunt the power? Or an AoE attach, like Whirling Hands or Tremor?
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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/signed.
Is this a first? Is there any other power in the game which takes enhancements that only work in PvP?
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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/signed.
Is this a first? Is there any other power in the game which takes enhancements that only work in PvP?
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Yes, although Stealth stacking with Hide is comparable. It does nothing in PvE. Anything in PvE that can see through Hide can see through Hide+Stealth at any range that would aggro it (possible exception: snipers). That makes stacking the two powers totally pointless in PvE, but of course it's known to be very useful in PvP.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Tanker, Scrapper and Brute Taunt powers will now accept Accuracy Enhancements. Note that these enhancements will have no effect in PvE, as the powers automatically hit PvE targets. The change is made strictly for PvP purposes.
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Wow. So now, with builds as tight as they are, we have to decide if our build is pvp or pve even moreso than before! 
Very bad idea. I urge you to go back to the drawing board on this one.
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I meant conceptually, not technically. There is a fine line I understand, but using DEF is more elegant and in line with the game, and not YAM (Yet Another Mechanic) - this game has too many mehcanics.
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Seems firmly in line with the power's description and concept, and given that no other mechanic exists which allows a player to have some degree of freedom from taunt, I don't think it's going to go away.
The change to make it more reliant on Defense seems more like a fix for sets who give up resistance in order, partly, to be protected from status effects - before this change, only Taunt ignored such defense. Without giving all ATs a lot of access to AoE defense, you're going to need a seperate mechanic.
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1v1? How can you test multiple targets in that case? Or are you specifically discussing that AoE DEF worked against it? That would require a few thousand to-hit rolls to be certain. Do you have that data?
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Regen scrappers don't have AoE defense. I don't believe it can even be found in power pools, although I haven't tested that.
We had a Fire/Storm Controller named Tribal Boogie (I hope I got the name right) in with us, and when Kali's Ice Tanker tried to taunt me, she had a chance to get him as long as he was nearby.
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Okay, but is that because its a single target, or multiple target? Was this Taunt the power? Or an AoE attach, like Whirling Hands or Tremor?
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Was with Fault, I believe. One of the Earth Melee AoE knockdown powers, I can never get the animations straight.
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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Agree here. Would prefer that PvE builds are as viable for PvP as much as possible. Plus, it will confuse the casual gamer who thinks that Taunt in PvE is autohit but still accepts accuracy enh. Taunt enh that increase acc and dur in PvP should avoid that. Ppl also have a way to reduce Taunt duration in PvP (running away/breaking LOS).
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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Agree here. Would prefer that PvE builds are as viable for PvP as much as possible. Plus, it will confuse the casual gamer who thinks that Taunt in PvE is autohit but still accepts accuracy enh. Taunt enh that increase acc and dur in PvP should avoid that. Ppl also have a way to reduce Taunt duration in PvP (running away/breaking LOS).
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QFT is the new 'me too'
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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Agree here. Would prefer that PvE builds are as viable for PvP as much as possible. Plus, it will confuse the casual gamer who thinks that Taunt in PvE is autohit but still accepts accuracy enh. Taunt enh that increase acc and dur in PvP should avoid that. Ppl also have a way to reduce Taunt duration in PvP (running away/breaking LOS).
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QFT is the new 'me too'
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Yes, this is a great solution; having a power accept enhancements that will do NOTHING in PVE, which, btw, is where the vast majority will play leads to very poor slotting choices. Joe Average Player rolling his tanker will see that taunt takes ACC and assume it requires a to-hit roll, thus wasting slots. Slotting is confusing enough without deliberately allowing slotting of completely useless enhancements.
Remember when Wet Ice got it's def gutted but would still take def enhancements? The Dev's realized that mistake and changed it so people wouldn't waste slots enhancing 20% of a 0.5% buff.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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/signed.
Is this a first? Is there any other power in the game which takes enhancements that only work in PvP?
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Yes, although Stealth stacking with Hide is comparable. It does nothing in PvE. Anything in PvE that can see through Hide can see through Hide+Stealth at any range that would aggro it (possible exception: snipers). That makes stacking the two powers totally pointless in PvE, but of course it's known to be very useful in PvP.
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100% on this? Reason I ask is that my Stalk has managed to A/S those Rikti drones without them seeing him and gets seen with only Hide on. Same with another mob, but can't seem to remember what it was. Stopped running missions with just Hide on so don't know about any others. Besides you get the Def of both, yes?
Sorry was off subject. 
That being as may be; I find the concept of any Enhancement working only in PvP rather disturbing. As a possible suggestion make the Acc Enhancements increase the number affected in PvE. 
This change seems great and i think more team based tanks will find PvP more enjoyable. One thing, however, it seems all taunt powers can do the same, which means tanker's taunt won't really be anymore effective than scrapper taunt. I'm i wrong to say that this change should be exclusive to Tanks? Since it is essentially our primary function.
I just spent some time with my ice tank and my stalker logged on in RV.
I put barrage on auto against my stalker. At first I thought punchvoke was bugged with barrage but it finally taunted my stalker after 19 hits. It then took 9 hits. The next time I went 35 hits of Barrage with no punchvoke and had to rest for health. When I restarted it took 5 hits. Then it took 3 hits. I did one final test with Barrage and it took 22 hits. The taunt lasted around 6 seconds when it happened.
I couldn't test the other attacks on my stalker since he is SR and took the damage too fast with his defense down (I don't have EP and it only took a few hits from Bone Smasher to take him down too low in health).
Hopefully they taunt with a little more frequency. 
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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.
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With the growing number of powers that take different pvP/PvE slotting (Taunt, Confront?, Git Feet, Smokle, Blinding Arrow) this is becoming a serious problem and raising the barrier for PvE folks wishing to try out PvP.
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I just spent some time with my ice tank and my stalker logged on in RV.
I put barrage on auto against my stalker. At first I thought punchvoke was bugged with barrage but it finally taunted my stalker after 19 hits. It then took 9 hits. The next time I went 35 hits of Barrage with no punchvoke and had to rest for health. When I restarted it took 5 hits. Then it took 3 hits. I did one final test with Barrage and it took 22 hits. The taunt lasted around 6 seconds when it happened.
I couldn't test the other attacks on my stalker since he is SR and took the damage too fast with his defense down (I don't have EP and it only took a few hits from Bone Smasher to take him down too low in health).
Hopefully they taunt with a little more frequency.
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I just did the same test yesterday against my brother's dom. After a combination of 25 barrage/energy punches, gauntlet didn't do any taunting. I started using the big attacks (ET/TF) and still nothing (other than mezz). Same result as the quoted poster. Used build up+energy transfer twice, and both times he was taunted. Was it build up or just plain luck? (according to other poster, acc/BU don't influence in the result, but...... )
Is this taunt thing really "working as intended"?....When the dom was finally taunted, the duration was incredibly short. Sorry to say this, but if this is the way gauntlet/taunt will work, it adds nothing to my tanker in pvp 
On a positive note, the toggle dropping has decreased. Makes for more frantic, longer fights 
I took my 50 inv/ss into an arena fight against a 50 bs/regen and played "protect the squishy" with a lev 30-ish MM. Through 15 minutes, I was able to keep the bs/regen perma-taunted through a combination of taunt and gauntlet. The power "taunt" was definitely much more reliable, but I was getting respectable taunt times out of the attacks when they did trigger.
My taunt is well slotted (3 taunt enhancers) and I have 1 taunt enhancer in each primary attack. I had no accuracy in taunt, which I though would be a problem at first, but I didn't notice any problems. I also only had 1 acc on each attack, but was running perma-rage and FA (except for a few periods where I got low on endurance).
In 15-20 minutes, he managed to kill the MM once by breaking LOS, then coming back in with BU+headsplitter and a follow up before I could get taunt back on.
Interestingly, I was able to keep him taunted even when he "accidentally" MoG'ed, suggesting that while taunt isn't auto-hit it perhaps isn't paying any attention to defense. I think I also taunted a stalker in RV who was eluding, but he wasn't a guildy so I can't verify that.
Incidentally, this is my PvE build - I'm not at all optimized for PvP.
This thread is solely for discussions regarding taunt changes. Please read the Issue 7 Training Room Patch Notes for details.
All off topic posts will be removed. Please do not post bugs/feedback/balance issues before testing this content.