Official Thread for Brutes: Electric Shields
By
13th_Stranger,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 24:02 in Developers' Corner
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Why does it have to have knockback resistance? WHy does it have to have immobilize resistance? Shouldn't the set have inherent weaknesses that you could choose to cover with pools or ignore and play to the sets strength?
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Like we've said many times before, it's not the existence of holes that is really the problem here, it's the number of big holes. You have no knockback protection AND no immobilization protection AND no self heal. (I'm more than willing to overlook the lack of toxic resistance due to the psionic resistance.) I don't mind the lack of knockback protection with my Fire/Fire. I can compensate for one or two big holes.
The combination of several big holes can be tough to overcome. If I load up on pool powers to compensate, I have fewer primary and secondary powers to work with.
Actually, you will notice the idea is to change Grounded to it would look something like this:
Grounded: toggle, .27 EPS, +75% health regeneration, knock back protection, -fly, -jump.
Note, there is still a weakness to immoblization in the set (until the final power is reached). So, it still has that weakness.
If a player wants to work around that particular weakness, there would be 2 paths to take. Combat Jumping (1 power slot) or Teleport pool (2 power slots and at least the use of one additional enhancement slot). And there is still the ability to use breakfrees. There is no inspiration to help against knock back.
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Nobody said anything about -speed Pink. But it'scalled *grounded
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So, a "grounded" brute acts as a capacator, storing up the energy damage instead of being injured by it, then discharging it harmlessly into the ground.
Fly and SJ covered.
So there. 
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Yeah, nitpicking about power colors seems so...nitpicky, but the first elec brute I created was all in blue and the red charged armor just...clashed. Really now. The poor guy looked like he had no sense of style whatsoever. He ran up to a bunch of snakes and they all pointed and laughed. It was humiliating.
I had no choice but to kill him off. Sad, true, but such is the penalty for flagrant fashion faux pas.
That red just doesn't go with a lot of costume choices.
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It's true. *sniffles* The poor baby brute of mine that's been waiting to become an elec/elec for months now is all in shades of blue and white...and looks horrid in the red. She was supposed to match the lightning, but now...to do that means I have to go "generic red & black villain #3107". 
I'd like to see the second shield (I forget the name and am not at home to check) have a more translucient effect. The current solid look to the electricity coupled with the size and frequency of the armor's animation is overwhelming. It really feels like too much is going on, especially from just that one shield toggle.
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Yeah, nitpicking about power colors seems so...nitpicky, but the first elec brute I created was all in blue and the red charged armor just...clashed. Really now. The poor guy looked like he had no sense of style whatsoever. He ran up to a bunch of snakes and they all pointed and laughed. It was humiliating.
I had no choice but to kill him off. Sad, true, but such is the penalty for flagrant fashion faux pas.
That red just doesn't go with a lot of costume choices.
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It's true. *sniffles* The poor baby brute of mine that's been waiting to become an elec/elec for months now is all in shades of blue and white...and looks horrid in the red. She was supposed to match the lightning, but now...to do that means I have to go "generic red & black villain #3107".
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Alas, I was forced into one of those already by the Red Wolf Spider Helmet. And I can't use the Blood Widow Helmet at all because nothing goes with it.
You might be able to get away with purple, depending on the shade. Maybe pink, but a pink brute running around would have to be one serious concept character; it wouldn't be suited for everyone.
Cool powersets or style: the choices we're forced to make.
;grief
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You might be able to get away with purple, depending on the shade. Maybe pink, but a pink brute running around would have to be one serious concept character; it wouldn't be suited for everyone.
Cool powersets or style: the choices we're forced to make.
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My Elec/Elec Brute wears green. And plant parts. So, uh... I don't feel limited.
It's not like the only colour that goes with red is red. White, black, and grey go with anything. With this red, I'd say most of the yellows would work, the oranges would probably generally work, some of the greens would work really well, certain purples would work really well... I would even venture to suggest this particular shade of red would work well with a dark blue.
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
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You might be able to get away with purple, depending on the shade. Maybe pink, but a pink brute running around would have to be one serious concept character; it wouldn't be suited for everyone.
Cool powersets or style: the choices we're forced to make.
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My Elec/Elec Brute wears green. And plant parts. So, uh... I don't feel limited.
It's not like the only colour that goes with red is red. White, black, and grey go with anything. With this red, I'd say most of the yellows would work, the oranges would probably generally work, some of the greens would work really well, certain purples would work really well... I would even venture to suggest this particular shade of red would work well with a dark blue.
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Oh, there are plenty of colors that go with the red, true. I was rather after a 'physical embodiment of the storm' concept, however...so it's just hard to work with the red lightning. Traditional 'stormy' colors (blues, greens, blue-greens) don't seem to look right, and matching the lightning itself (which was the original idea) pretty much limits one to red, black, and white.
On the other hand, for all those folks that wanted a Mu concept, the red lightning kicks butt.
Okay, the lighter blues and blue-greens are not the greatest match, granted. But really, when I think 'storm', I think greys and green-greys anyhow. (And lightning does vary a bit in colour; I generally have associated it with yellow, myself.)
Also... Ever see lightning hit a power transformer? BLINDING SEAR OF WHITE, blue, yellow, orange. So while I agree red lightning is a little... odd... if you're going for the "lightning is hitting you now!" sort of feel, white, yellow and orange are well within real-world parameters. ^_^
Also... check out this picture for real-world red lightning with dark blue and this one for naturally occuring ball lightning of a mixed red, yellow and orange.
Lastly... how about a plasma ball look? Reds and purples, maybe.
Just tryin' to be helpful. ^_^
One drawback of the internet is how it has trained so many people to think that one day is a long time.
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I just have to say that the instant I turned my electric armor on I had a total joygasm. It is everything I could have dreamed in every way. The look, the sound...god it just makes me happy to be alive!
Elec/Elec is the reason I came back to CoH/CoV. I saw it coming in I7 and reactivated immediatly and I'm not going to be regretting that decision.
My only saddness is that my partner in crime cannot be an elec/elec corruptor with me
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Yeah, but RED lightning? C'mon...even the Crey lightning on the Voltaic Tanks isn't red. Mr. Horse what do you think?
"No sir, I didn't like it."
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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just tested the smashing/lethal resistance on my elec/elec brute:
longbow brawl, no shield: 2.42 damage
longbow brawl, w/ shield: 1.78 damage
shield base resist: 26%
shield max (3 SOs) resist: 40%
color me unimpressed. we get no immobilize protection, no knockback protection, and no self heal, and still fall about 10% short of invulnerability to the most prevalent damage types?
i'm going to go test conductive shield as soon as i get back on test (just got dc'ed).
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Agreed, it doesn't seem to stack up against other sets. Where's the unique benefit?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Mediocrity in PvE for viability in PvP. Sad, really.
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What did you expect? Cryptic took a great PvE game and then futzed with it and caused us a lot of grief just to accommodate a very small percentage of players who actually give a hoot about PvP or participate in it.
PvP needs to go away.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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I don't see any mediocrity for pve. I see a set that does outstanding in pve and pvp so long as you fill the holes.
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As much as I hate repeating myself over and over again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't a part of the last Electric Brute 'debate' thread.
You see, it's the holes that are the problem. There are too many of them. This set was balanced around power pools. You know, those "optional" things that we're not supposed to be required to take in order to "do our job."
Will an Electric Brute be able to do it's job without the three hole-filling PPs you mentioned? Sorta. Sure, I guess. Will it be [censored] annoying as all hell? Subjective, but you'll get a healthy Yes from me. I don't want to take Leaping. I don't want to take Aid Self. I really don't want to take Fighting.
I want to take Flight, SS and Stamina. That's it. Why should I be penalized so much for not filling these arbitrary and unoriginal holes?
Why are we focused on the holes? Because they don't balance with the benefits. I'm not ignoring them. I'm well aware that they're there. However, I don't think they're enough. Situational mezz protection does not a well-rounded set make.
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/agreement
Well said.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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the imm i can mostly handly (seeing that we get a tp type attack, which will bypass imm)
but seriously...NO knockback protection?
have you SERIOUSLY thought about pve into this? cause more than HALF of what we fight used KB, pvp as well for ice types and assault blaster/corruptors
let me make some points...
Circle of Thorns...Ruin Mages plant KB types 90-100% of the time
Devouring Earth, some of their pets (DE dropings) have KB
Longbow, grenaders have KB
i can go on and on about the types, what i'm pointing out is BRUTES need KB protection to do their brutish needs, we shouldn't have to rely on acrobatics, it's WEAK skill ONLY for total KB protection, it's a waste simply put, so DONT make us take something we just can simply have in a defensive toggle (in pvp can drop it, and blappers LOVE to drop toggles so just add it in!!)
in conclusion, i want a brute if it's not gonna have ANY healing power, to not be on it's rear half the time and get killed cause of it, it's on test, can change it, so PLEASE do so!
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Yah, Dark Armor may be *really* end heavy but at least it has a heal. We don't need another armor set that all you do is manage toggles all day.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
Honestly I am all in favor of ditching the resistance to Psi Damage for Immobilize and Knockback/down protection. After playing a fire tank and having been bounced by council to death I never want to be with out that protection. (And yes, I was bounced to DEATH. I never actually got to stand up and I went in with full health) I have to agree with an earlier poster about the immobilize, why bother to give us speed/recharge increases if we are just going to end up immobilized in 1 or 2 hits and unable to use them
I know it would never happen but it would be interesting to see how the set performs with the Immobilize and Knockback/down protection added to existing powers. Leave off any kind of healing.
I also saw the suggestion of adding Quick Recovery to the set in place of Conserve Power? Would certainly be nice freeing up 2 power choices with not needing Stamina. Long haul to get it at 28th though but it would be worth it.
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i'd rather swap the power drain to 28 and get something different at 35
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Second the motion!
/agree
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Why does it have to have knockback resistance? WHy does it have to have immobilize resistance? Shouldn't the set have inherent weaknesses that you could choose to cover with pools or ignore and play to the sets strength?
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You have got to be kidding. Lack of Immobilize protection, I can maybe see playing that way. But have you ever tried playing a scrapper or brute with no knockback protection up in the 30s and 40s? I have SG mates who have shelved characters until the next free respec comes along because they got sick of trying to play without knockback protection. I teamed with a L41 Dark/Dark scrapper once who didn't have Acrobatics and it was just painful watching him try to fight +1 DE. We ended up kicking him from the team because he was worthless - barely did any damage and he died whenever our Empath glanced away for more than a second.
Even in the lower levels, lack of KB protection is a major problem. I got on a team just this morning with Bolt Lass (13 Elec/Elec) and 4 MMs. It's a good thing all those pets were there to take aggro, 'cause every time I jumped into a mob group, I ended up on my back. Once I was knocked down 5 times in a row and was down to a red pulsing sliver of life before I could even use an inspiration.
It is annoying to play a melee toon without KB protection in the low levels. It's downright not fun to play a melee toon without knockback protection in the 30s and 40s. It's not fun for you, it's not fun for your team. If you're a real masochist you might be able to solo that way, but you're going to go very slowly and probably die a lot.
It just makes no sense to keep making new sets that don't have knockback protection. Take away something else if you have to, like the previous suggestions to make the KB protection a toggle with -Jump and -Fly. But give us something that doesn't require taking specific travel pools.
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they need a new power similar to dull pain like..
Defibulator - Enter your whole body in a suspended state of shock, causing you to feel numb and far less pain from injury. Your overall hit points are increased. (also a heal like Dull Pain)
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or maybe we could call it...
Defibrillator?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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You can add slow resist and -recharge resist to that list as well, as well as very above average energy resist
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slow and recharge resist...hmmm...isn't that called...
Hasten!?
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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just tested the smashing/lethal resistance on my elec/elec brute:
longbow brawl, no shield: 2.42 damage
longbow brawl, w/ shield: 1.78 damage
shield base resist: 26%
shield max (3 SOs) resist: 40%
color me unimpressed. we get no immobilize protection, no knockback protection, and no self heal, and still fall about 10% short of invulnerability to the most prevalent damage types?
i'm going to go test conductive shield as soon as i get back on test (just got dc'ed).
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Agreed, it doesn't seem to stack up against other sets. Where's the unique benefit?
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Apparently you missed my post completely then and 40% is for every resistance except negative energy is less and energy is maxed out on your resistance higher then the other sets. Hell 40% is higher then Inv tanks get for there energy and elemental resistances and twice what Inv brutes get. The big issue is having no defense or heal and since you have no defense it makes medicine not a viable option. Having no immob or knockback resistance makes SJ pretty much a must. As well as the fact that this makes the 3rd out of 5 sets without knockback resistance when knockback is not good for building up fury. The reason Ice Armor was removed from brutes in beta was because it was said to be bad for Fury buildup but they have no problem including 3 sets without knockback resistance which hurts fury buildup and also forces you to take SJ if you want it.
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the suggestion is that it only has the -jump and -fly, not the -speed
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Two things...this would affect speed as you can't jump away...even if you don't have SJ or Combat Jumping. This would also lock people more into picking up a non-leaping and non-flying travel power which...is one of the main reasons people are miffed about the set to begin with. They don't want to get locked into Leaping Pool.
It is still a clone and has been described as a clone with SA as an example AND, is completely unoriginal. Who wants to be locked into super speed and ONLY teleport as a means of travel? I am sure there are some who love SJ...maybe a majority of people even if it does lead to a cookie cutter build. I personally wouldn't mind seeing this set completely unchanged.
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I don't see anything glaring so far that seems wrong power-wise, but for the love of god, can Lightning Field's graphics get toned down?
I didn't think it was possible to make an aura that was more eye-searing and headache-inducing than Blazing Aura, but Lightning Field definitely is. It's -painful- to keep on, and that's even with a massively reduced particle count.
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Agreed about Lightning Field, in all it's AT/Powerset incarnations. Blazing Aura is tame man compared to the annoying shiny-ness that is Fortitude though...
Total Focus is a hold, right?
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Actually, you will notice the idea is to change Grounded to it would look something like this:
Grounded: toggle, .27 EPS, +75% health regeneration, knock back protection, -fly, -jump.
Note, there is still a weakness to immoblization in the set (until the final power is reached). So, it still has that weakness.
If a player wants to work around that particular weakness, there would be 2 paths to take. Combat Jumping (1 power slot) or Teleport pool (2 power slots and at least the use of one additional enhancement slot). And there is still the ability to use breakfrees. There is no inspiration to help against knock back.
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So...you think that people should take a power that would be completely useless with this version of grounded activated...aside from the immob protection and minor defense? Seems like you are reaching for what little you can get by jumping on a failing bandwagon.
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Current holes are:
- No immobilize protection
- No knockback protection
- No self-heal/or/ hp boost
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I guess if you never play anything but tanks an maybe scrappers you see these as holes...
I'm mostly Defenders an Corruptors...these are pretty normal for me. Though I could swear I saw a power listing Immob Res...
No Knockback? No problem. I PvP a fair bit nowadays and in both PvP and PvE I get hit alot since Sleet an Blizz tend to piss everything off...On my corruptor I almost never get knockback...
I think this is the perfect set for my playstyle since I'm used to keeping a few green an breaks in my trays...
And with the Quickness-esque power I might just be able to get by w/o Swift and Recharge enhancers in some of my powers...
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You can't compare Brutes/Tanks/Scrappers to Defenders/Corrupters. Apples and Oranges my friend. The former have resists and defense. The latter deal with damage by DEATH. Get real.
Total Focus is a hold, right?
the suggestion is that it only has the -jump and -fly, not the -speed