Fix the Blaster in the fewest possible moves
Every squishie AT believes they deserve some form of mezz protection. They each have their reasons, all arguments sound sound, but none will get it.
I'd say give everyone an inherent mag 2 resistance to mezzes, give mobs a chance to crit on holds. This will make mezzes less binary. If you see a Mage sent a mess your way and you're ok, run away and walk it off.
They're never going to give us mez resistance.
Requoting Statesman (responding to ...):
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Fix Defiance. Fix Blaster secondaries. Add more powers to primaries and secondaries. Fix ED. Adding additional powersets.
Were happy with Defiance.
We will look at Blaster secondaries; we know some need attention.
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I have a Fire/Eng, and I routinely tote around respites in an effort to see how effective Defiance is. Frankly, I really think the Devs should take a good look at how useless Defiance is -- the only time I've ever seen the Defiance bar go over the quarter mark is when I've fallen from a tall building. Any other time the Defiance bar is close to getting to the quarter mark, it means that I've just suffered the alpha strike of many enemies, and I'm about to die in one more hit.
A damage-dealing blaster should never have to "rely" on getting close to being knocked out just to get the "most" out of his powers. Defiance doesn't address the Blaster's problem of "I'm getting killed just before I defeat my enemy." The current version of Defiance says "I have to get very very hurt just before I defeat my enemy." And that's a rather idiotic way of solving the problem.
Want to fix the Blasters in as few steps as possible? I suggest just ONE step:
Extend the Blaster's range.
And if we insist on supporting the idea behind Blappers, then the second step would be
Increase our Damage when in Melee
These ideas are not unique, many blaster players have said the same over and over again. Blasters simply ask to have the ability to fulfill their role in a group: doing damage.
I wish I could disagree.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
So, what would happen if blasters got 1 extra power to choose from? Every other AT would cry and demand it about 1 minute later. Not going to happen, even though I'd like to see a few more powers added in; kinda like a khel, you just can't have all those powers, need to pick a few and go from there.
And why wouldn't defenders get access to these extra powers, if by some magic this did happen? Our damage is garbage (ok, rads and the occasional kinetic aside), we've had a nerf already just to make sure we can't come near a blaster on our best day( envenerating field..). Our controls got lessened (too controllery), and basically to be a damage causing toon that can look at a small group of even level minions and win we need to be rad,kin or have rad as a secondary.
Also, a lot of those changes would be seen as too much for the stalker community, as there goes the AS in a lot of them. Flavor of the month anyone?
I'm sorry, I just don't see blasters needing any more defense. That's the whole point of being a blaster, you blast. High damage, no defense. Add in defense, and make the scrappers ask for more. Then the tanks want more. Then etc etc, we all get the same 18 powers eventually, and what fun is that?
And defiance isn't horrible; it doesn't work out as well pve side since the whole 1-2 shotting thing, but pvp it makes you crazy tough buggers for a lot of us other toons. At least it works solo or teamed, I can't see them changing it any time soon without redoing a lot of innate powers.
Good God no way should a blaster have any mez protection! What's the reasoning behind that other than to overpower them? Defenders don't get it (ok, bubble buddies and Sonics get it, but really, they get the least of all the def sets for self protection), some controllers can take it with epics (which I strongly disagree with), and blasters don't get it either. Carry breakfrees, I have to.
Fixing some weaker powers would be great, adding new toys that no one else can get isn't imho. I think ED was also partly to make sure we teamed a bit more with various AT's to overcome our own shortcomings. Kind of a 'Hey Superman, let me get that kryptonite for you, you go smash that guy there ok?' sort of deal.
My 2 inf; I haven't played blasters much (and when I do I blap baby! ), and I see the risk as fun, not as a bad thing. Gotta keep those defenders on their toes or they get lazy...
Unfortunately I agree with your disagree.
I think the seondaries can be helped quite a lot by just swapping some powers around, buffing Targeting Drone, and giving SG a little love.
A couple of primaries can be significantly helped by increasing the range of the short range attack to 50'.
I think Archery may need a little tweaking of it's damage numbers after the end fix, but I can wait and see on that.
AR needs a little more of a mix of damage types or an Aim power. That's nothing too complicated
Ice is fine.
Elec needs the most help IMO. Especially after this end change to bosses and Lt's. I think it needs a good attack chain, and SC needs to be fixed. Either fix SC by end drain increase, or by damage and range increases.
None of these are major time consuming, new animation develpoing, core game changes. Most are adjusting numbers on a spreadsheet.
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I understand the Blaster debate. However, drastically removing and altering powers at this stage of the game with this magnitude is extreme.
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I think its been proven the devs can make 'drastic' changes, unless you do not think ED(esp in combination with I5) was such a change. This is not a good argument to not make any changes "at this stage of the game."
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So, what would happen if blasters got 1 extra power to choose from? Every other AT would cry and demand it about 1 minute later. Not going to happen, even though I'd like to see a few more powers added in; kinda like a khel, you just can't have all those powers, need to pick a few and go from there.
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I imagine they would handle it the same way they handled giving out new blast and buff sets but nt new melee and armor sets. We're putting these in first, but yours are coming.
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And why wouldn't defenders get access to these extra powers, if by some magic this did happen?
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Reread. They WOULD.
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Also, a lot of those changes would be seen as too much for the stalker community, as there goes the AS in a lot of them. Flavor of the month anyone?
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I don't understand how this would break AS.
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I'm sorry, I just don't see blasters needing any more defense. That's the whole point of being a blaster, you blast. High damage, no defense. Add in defense, and make the scrappers ask for more. Then the tanks want more. Then etc etc, we all get the same 18 powers eventually, and what fun is that?
[/ QUOTE ]
I hardly think powers like the ones mentioned will give Blasters any kind of Defense that woudl threaten defenders and scrappers. First off, Defenders would be getting the 10th power. Secondly, a fear radius, PFF or knock field would be pretty counterproductive to a melee-er.
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Fixing some weaker powers would be great, adding new toys that no one else can get isn't imho.
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How do you survive today then, when blasters have all kinds of unique to them toys in their secondaries?
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My 2 inf; I haven't played blasters much (and when I do I blap baby! ), and I see the risk as fun, not as a bad thing. Gotta keep those defenders on their toes or they get lazy...
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But, you can still build that way. This would just give Blasters who wanted to have a bit less risk a way to do so. It certainly won't eliminate blappers as the best powers remain melee ranged.
My quickest version of Blaster fixes:
PRIMARIES:
AR: change Ignite to enemy-targeted so that we don't waste time targetting the ground. Lower its duration to 5 seconds, but add a 5 second DoT effect on anyone hit by it. That allows it to do at least 60% damage when you hit someone with it even if they run out. This fixes AR by filling in its single-target attach chain and its non-Lethal damage at the same time.
Archery: raise all damages and all recharge and End costs. With the long animations, the only way to give it reasonable DPA is to raise damages, which means raising the rest. That should be quick and easy, and a reasonable boost.
Fire: Flares is too weak for the activation time. Increase its damage and recharge and endurance cost.
Ice: Ice Storm is too low damage for the End cost. Raise damage or lower cost.
Electric: Make VS target only your target so that you have some control over it.
Energy: Halve the knockback distance of the knockbacks.
Sonic: ?
SECONDARIES:
Overall, make all of the 1st level Immobilizes more effective as an attack. They should all do at least 1/2 of their damage as an up-front burst, then the rest as ticks. Power Thrust should have a 20' range (10' at the least), so that it's useful as a defensive measure that PREVENTS melee rather than one that makes you trade a melee hit for a melee hit.
Devices: Add +Dam(minor) to TD. Or, better, armor penetration to attacks when using it (if possible). Make Time Bomb able to be detonated early, and make Trip Mine a power that you set up on the floor, and then can roll it forward a short distance. Enough that you can use it from outside perception range with just Cloaking Device, rather than requiring SG+CD.
Fire: Make Burn a +Regen power and status protection as long as you're in the patch. Since it lasts just 10 seconds, that's not too uber. Change Blazing Aura to Smoky Aura, which is a PBAoE team +Stealth/+Def power, like Steamy Mist but without the resists.
That's all pretty quick. Only two power animations changed (Smoky Aura, and a movable Trip Mine).
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Pilcrow wrote:
But, hey, you blappers let me know if I missed the mark.
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For me, playing a blapper is mostly a visual thing. Ever since my first trip through the Hollows fighting Outcasts, I've loved how the punches of the Shockers were charged with electricy. So I rolled an Electric/Electric blaster. Reducing my limited selection of melee attacks (even if the replacement is technically superior) is undesirable.
Now on the other hand, making Lightning Field an enemy based AOE... That's a really good idea. Sign me up for that change.
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Telecommuter wrote:
Extend the Blaster's range.
Increase our Damage when in Melee
[/ QUOTE ]
Longer ranges? Heck yes! Even playing at low levels with my Dominator, the ability to immobilize a target then back out range to blast makes things pretty safe. Now, I know that tactic fails at higher levels (Snipers, etc.), but early on, its pretty useful.
Increase melee damage. I suppose that'd be fine. Honestly, I'm pretty happy with my melee damage (especially after taking BU and Aim). I'd actually prefer a modest reduction in recharge time.
The only blaster sets I really feel qualified to comment on are Electricity Blast/Manipulation and AR/Devices. My sugegsted changes are pretty simple and hopefully not too far out in left field:
Electrical Blast
1) Needs better range - at least bring it in line with the range of other primaries.
2) Making the endurance drain/transfer more reliable would go a long way toward making it viable. As it is, only TB and Short Circuit make any significant dent in enemy endurance. With the exception of Short Circuit, I almost never see any endurance return regardless of slotting.
3) If endurance drain is destined to be a useless secondary effect, why not replace it with something else? Some of Electrical Manipulation's power do Sleep effects, why not go that route?
4) I'd love to see Voltaic Sentinel's AI changed so it would attack enemies you're targetting. If you have nothing targetted, it would revert to it current "random" attack pattern.
Electrical Manipulation
1) I really like Pilcrow's idea for Lightning Field
AR
1) Reduce recharge times and endurance costs.
2) Allow AR's "bullet" attacks to score double damage criticals. Allow Beanbag to score critical controls. The fire attacks and M30 grenade would be unchanged.
Devices
1) I like the idea of giving targeting drone +Dmg. The buff should be about the same as Assault. Ultimately, it should be like you're running a combo Assault/Tactics, but without the +Res effects.
2) Fix Time Bomb so it doesn't break stealth to place it. The power is (almost) completely useless as is, especially in PvP.
Repulse, icicles, and burn. Those 3 powers are pretty much anti-AS powers. I know repulse needs a to-hit, but it goes off so fast that you get 2 chances to hit, and there goes AS. Burn I think has no to hit, and icicles just stops AS cold.
And as to how do I survive today? Lol, not very well! I need to spam my heal aura even with my gimp epic armors to fight as is. That's all I have for defense, if I get stunned, chain knocked around (or even just once with a blaster), or slowed I know I'm dead. Simple as that.
I have a 43ish regen scrapper, I for one would jump at pff, what a great 'uhoh' power that would be! Repel field is great for non-invincibles out there who want to play knockback games or just as a 'get offa me for a second' button. The running away fear would be pretty useless to non-ranged heroes though.
By the way, 90% of my thoughts are based on how PvP changes, and 10% from occasional falls from my bike as a kid, so I'm wrong a lot.
Even tho it doesn't make that much of a difference, both Icicles and Burn have to hit checks.
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
Blasters already have auras like this in Lightning Field and Blazing Aura. They don't do a whole lot to stop a stalker. At best, you may notice the "miss" above their heads, but by that point, you're probably getting hit with an AS anyway. More to-hit auras would not break AS. They would barely scratch it at best.
I forget where I read this idea ... maybe it's in Player Suggestions.
The concept is two-fold.
1. Increase the range of Blaster ranged attacks. Let's say make the basic "medium range" be 100 feet. Short range would be 80.
2. Increased damage from ranged attacks as we get closer to target -- and if we want to keep it simple, let's say, 50% more damage if we are within 50% of the attack's normal range (so a medium range attack does 150% x normal damage at 50 yards)
They need to rework Defiance so that it works like Vigilance: damage taken by teammates ups a Blaster's Defiance meter. Pow. Tankers have a definite role on the team and Blasters can be damage juggernauts. 90% of Blaster problems gone.
Resulting balance issues are Geko's problem....
I like your idea of allowing Aim to increase range, but I wouldn't add it to Build Up as well. In fact, I would argue that if the increased range were sufficiently large, you could eliminate the damage boost from Aim and still come out ahead. Assault Rifle would need to have the inherent range boosted somewhat, since that set does not have access to Aim.
Other than that, all that really needs to be done is to have a small number of control powers in the secondary changed from point blank to ranged, and I like the idea of making Time Bomb targetable by the player.
Candidates for increased range in the secondaries would be Freezing Touch in Ice Manipulation, which could be made identical to Freeze Ray. Some of the PBAoEs, like Burn or maybe Ice Patch, could be made location AoEs. I wouldn't change more than one power per set, however. Making Freezing Touch a ranged hold would be great for, say, a Fire blaster, but it would mean an Ice/Ice would have access to three (or even four) ranged single target holds. Yeesh. Fire manipulation might need a little more attention there than the others.
Incidentally, much as I love my Ice/Ice, I've thought for a long time that the second hold should have been put in the secondary rather than the primary. Tesla Cage in the Electric set should probably also have been put in the secondary. Too late to change something like that, though.
Tormentoso:
[ QUOTE ]
Every squishie AT believes they deserve some form of mezz protection. They each have their reasons, all arguments sound sound, but none will get it.
I'd say give everyone an inherent mag 2 resistance to mezzes, give mobs a chance to crit on holds. This will make mezzes less binary. If you see a Mage sent a mess your way and you're ok, run away and walk it off.
[/ QUOTE ]
Neutra:
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They're never going to give us mez resistance.
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Let's not talk in black-and-white absolutes. I deliberately indicated that my proposal wasn't for a mez-resist power. Even a "light" version of tanker/scrapper mez-resists would be overpowering, and would be "must-have". Further, Tormentoso seems to be missing my arguments with respect to defenders and controllers having their own means of dealing with mez.
And statements along the lines of "They're never going to give us <fill-in-the-blank>," miss the point of threads like this. Most of this thread is necessarily "Never gonna happen." The point is to throw out ideas and compare and contrast, not second-guess Dev thinking, which is a losing game since Statesman regularly (if unintentionally) contradicts himself, and things like ED stay behind the scenes for months until they spring them on us.
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I understand the Blaster debate. However, drastically removing and altering powers at this stage of the game with this magnitude is extreme.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think its been proven the devs can make 'drastic' changes, unless you do not think ED(esp in combination with I5) was such a change. This is not a good argument to not make any changes "at this stage of the game."
[/ QUOTE ]
Changing how powerful an enhanced power can be... and removing that power completely are two different things. So yes, it is a perfectly valid argument.
The only powers to ever be removed from the game were Fold Space, shortly after Issue One, and the single target Wormhole, in Issue 5 (technically, this was not removed).
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They need to rework Defiance so that it works like Vigilance: damage taken by teammates ups a Blaster's Defiance meter. Pow. Tankers have a definite role on the team and Blasters can be damage juggernauts. 90% of Blaster problems gone.
[/ QUOTE ] You know, that might actually make it fun to have.
Anyhoo. My thoughts.
Primaries:
Ice, Fire and AR are all generally percieved as doing ok. Why? Fire and AR do a considerable amount of AoE damage, Ice and to an extent Fire have speedy animations on their single target attacks, and Fire has fairly high BIs on all of its attacks.
That said, for archery I'd bump its AoE damage closer to the Fire/AR level. For the rest of the sets, being more single target oriented, I'd reduce recharges closer to that of Ice and/or increase their BIs so as to have a fairly standard level of damage output across the sets. I'd also increase the range on the short attacks to at least the same 50 as Ice's BIB.
Another thought being, give Aim a small (2%-3%) chance of letting attacks crit. The same idea could be worked into the TD with perhaps a lower percentage instead of giving it a straight damage buff ability.
I don't, off the top of my head know what I'd do about the secondary sets. I do know I don't like the target toggled AoE damage idea for blazing aura and lightning field. Too much could go horribly wrong with that for my liking. Now, if you changed them to a ground targeted effect and added in a slow component, or a chance to hold for a very short duration ... something like that, then I think they'd be nice. Heck, it'd even mirror the whole terrain controll ability /dev gets with caltrops and /ice has in Ice Patch.
I'd love to expand a bit more on this, but I have to get off to class. Hopefully I'll get back to it later.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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Let's not talk in black-and-white absolutes. I deliberately indicated that my proposal wasn't for a mez-resist power. Even a "light" version of tanker/scrapper mez-resists would be overpowering, and would be "must-have". Further, Tormentoso seems to be missing my arguments with respect to defenders and controllers having their own means of dealing with mez.
And statements along the lines of "They're never going to give us <fill-in-the-blank>," miss the point of threads like this. Most of this thread is necessarily "Never gonna happen." The point is to throw out ideas and compare and contrast, not second-guess Dev thinking, which is a losing game since Statesman regularly (if unintentionally) contradicts himself, and things like ED stay behind the scenes for months until they spring them on us.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well the only reason I said it was because I'm pretty sure I remember way back when one of the Devs commented that it just wasn't going to happen because it would break the image they have of the Blaster. If you remember at one point we DID have mez protection when they gave us Unstoppable in the Force Mastery, but that dropped after a few days (Tankers weren't exactly 'thrilled' that we got their power) We also already have some mez resistance if you want it. Health has the Sleep resistance and Acrobatics has some Hold resistance. It's not much, but it is something you can get. If you want real mez resistance, get a Defender. Our AT can't "do it all".
And I wasn't aiming my comment at anyone, I just saying what I thought about the overall "mez" issue. Nothing is to say, like you said, that if we ask for it in here we COULD get it, since the Devs do contradict themselves as you said. So by all means keep asking for it if you want it or think it would help.
Honestly, though, I don't want mez protection, I feel it would just make the AT boring. Plus, every other AT would react badly I'm sure if Blasters got even an ounce of mez protection. The only time I have problems with mez is when I myself do something stupid and rush into a situation without looking at it fully. Being a Blaster is about planning. You can bum rush the first couple of levels all you want, but come late 30s and onward, you're going to be living permadebt if you keep doing that.
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Plus, every other AT would react badly I'm sure if Blasters got even an ounce of mez protection.
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What, even the Khelds?
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Pilcrow, I see this as a good idea and easily a positive influence on blasters as a whole, but I don't think Blasters can be fixed with in only a few steps. Secondaries such as /Fire really need a much closer look than this.
Arc Salvo had a good thread in here that started as an AoE discussion, but seemed to delve into the secondaries in general. There were some good ideas in there and in a bunch of other threads throughout the last couple months. But they all hinted at a major obstacle in "fixing" blasters and more specifically, their secondaries.
Though some changes require little to no work on the Dev's side, I am willing to bet more effort will be spent on the PR side. Take the thread Toshie, I think, started. He made an interesting point how the first tier power of the secondaries in /Devices and /Energy were possibly "better" than the first tier powers in the rest of the sets. Initially, I agreed. But then others stated that they disagreed and gave pretty valid reasons for doing so. I have /energy and I was swayed by their arguments to some degree.
I guess what I am getting at here is that, as a fairly large population, we will never agree with idea of modifying individual powers to fix a set we all agree needs fixing. But that is where I see most of the improvements.
Anywho, to add to the list of short, easy fixes:
1. Reiterate the boost of range to the 20' burst style attacks for emphasis.
2. Add a +perception boost in Aim for its 10 second duration.
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Plus, every other AT would react badly I'm sure if Blasters got even an ounce of mez protection.
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What, even the Khelds?
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You mean the tank mages? Nah, I'm sure they could care less what happens to everyone else. I love my Warshade and don't care what anyone else gets, I have everything I will ever need.
And I like that idea of +perception when using Aim, makes sense.
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Plus, every other AT would react badly I'm sure if Blasters got even an ounce of mez protection.
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What, even the Khelds?
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Especially Khelds.
An AT that has THREE damage shields in its defensive set... and no mez protection to keep them up seems quite... ummm... mismatched.
My first toon, my namesake, is an elec/elec blaster. I made her so I could fly around and Zap! stuff. It worked great for a while, but less and less as I levelled up (the nerfs matched my level or something)
So my take on the whole thing: I don't want to 'blap'. I wanted a ranged toon, but right now that's the 'useless build'
I'd go one of two ways, and they're both trouble for the devs;
- make new secondaries that, like dominator assault sets, are basically compilations of pre-existing sets. A mix of (a few)melee attacks, a few defenses, a 'lil bit of control... Y'know. Actual support.
or
- I'd love to see power choices at key levels. Say(for example) at levels 3, 6 and 9 you have the choice between 2 powers that are mutually exclusive- you can't just pick the ones you missed later. This would allow people to keep their current build, but allow those who didn't take a blaster to have good melee attacks to be more versatile.
Oh, and if endurance drain is so hard to balance then give us minor disorient, or sleep, anything at all...
Pax
Zapgrrl, 45 EleEle VIRTUE
Darkgrrl, 50 DrkDrk INFINITY
Nuqular Skwirl 37 IllKin VIRTUE
Bayushi Rei, 50 KatReg CHAMPION
Corvus Corone 32 NinDrk INFINITY
...and too many others to admit
"Don't dream it- be it"
Frank'n'Furter
[ QUOTE ]
Fewest possible moves? OK.
Situational mez resist.
Postulates and reasoning:
1) People like blasters being risky. (I'm one of them.)
2) People don't like being mezzed to death. Even being one-shotted is better than being mezzed to death.
3) Individual powersets aside from devices and energy might need tweaks, but those are several "moves".
4) Defiance is a joke.
So, replace Defiance with an intrinsic that lets blasters DO something other than get mezzed to death. Come on, we're gonna faceplant quickly anyway from any of a number of other causes. The only one that annoys a risk-loving blaster is mez, cuz mez isn't so much about risk as it is about being effectively face-planted while still having nonzero health.
All other ATs have ways of handling mez. Melee ATs have their very prescious anti-mez powers. Defenders generally don't provoke mez, and have some powers that resist mez (e.g., Dispersion bubble). Controllers can employ a "mez the mezzers" attack plan, and at high levels can use their pets to take the brunt of mez attacks. Khelds can use any of the above tactics, and have the anti-mez Dwarf form to fall back on.
Blasters have none of that. At best, they have a "kill mezzers before they mez me" tactic, which is really just a variation of the primary blaster tactic, "kill them before they kill me; if in doubt, run away". Mezzing just takes the "run away" option out of the picture.
If it's an intrinsic power of some kind, then it only activates as the Devs see fit, and doesn't become a must-have, must-slot power in the primary or secondary. It kicks in when you're in trouble: you just got held, and now you're below 50% health (which is bad territory for a blaster). So every "tick" you get a -chance- to shrug off the mez. Not a certainty, but a possibility. And if you are too mezzed for the modicum of resistance provided to free you, well, you were stupid and deserve to faceplant. That's part of the risk blasters love.
It even works for PvP: the blaster is easy to take down -if- you focus on him and can absorb his damage output, but don't think you can just pin him down and kill him quickly. He'll be as risky to nail as any other AT.
And this solve a huge amount of blaster problems without adding to damage output, adding +DEF or +DR, and without adding any controversial powers to be abused. It just gets rid of the reliability of mez used vs blasters. It adds a -tension- factor in PvE fights with mezzing enemies; yeah, the blaster just got held, but -maybe- he manages to break free by virtue of his willpower, instead of giving up hope and waiting to faceplant or praying that the empath isn't too preoccupied to send a CM his way.
We're blasters. We're gonna faceplant a lot anyway. Those of us with the epic Rise of the Phoenix power even like the opportunity to use it! But give us that chance to run away or go down fighting as we choose, not frozen in that Michael Jackson "Thriller" pose, where we know we're faceplanted, but we're just awaiting the formality.
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Yes to all. In fact, I think I may like the chance per tick to break free better than just an increasing scale of resistance as health falls that I've suggested in the past.