Comprehensive Fire/Fire Brute Guide (I6)

Fire_Storm · 02-06-2006 08:31 PM

Hey,

For those interested in the post ED I6 version of a fire/fire brute, thanks for reading this. I will gab for a bit, and then get to the build. This is the revised version of an earlier post and much more comprehensive.

After the powers and build, there are the reasons for why the build is what it is. If you are new to game, all that at the beginning is too much. Some of the fire/fire tank stuff is like 4 pages long, no kidding. I posted this once and redid it. I will see if I can get the first one deleted. I wanted it to be thorough. The numbers are there for you consider what the slotting has done for them. If you are new, just ignore them and go with the slotting recs. I wish you could post pics of the powers too. Pictures would be amazing at teaching you what the villains are using AGAINST you.

The build, well this is post 24 respec on the brute and currently at level 32. Now when I build a toon, I look into it, and then play my toon, with plans to respec at 24, and 34. I dont need to respect this toon at 34, I learned from the tank and this one. For example I had all attacks at lower lvls to increase damage as I lvled, then respect into much better defensive build for survival. This way, I can change my slotting as I lvl and slot things at first and then change them if needed. I am preparing a Fire/Fire tanker guide as well, so I feel pretty confident of this build and its slotting.

You will have no problems getting the fury bar up and staying there with this build. This is true for TEAMS too. Before, well i couldn't keep my fury bar up in teams. Oh my ED and losing your fury bar....lol...Keeping the Fury bar up is what does your damage. The attack chain uses all the single target attacks with BA for aggro management. I use primarily Boxing, Scorch, Fire Sword, Cremate, Incinerate, and plan on Greater Fire Sword. You really have to watch the power tray to see which power is coming up next, and smooth continuous play is what works for a brute. Not jabbing the same key again, and again and again, waiting for the power to recharge.

Hasten is also on Auto.

I run FS, PS, Tough, CJ, Acro, Weave as defense. End is a major issue with tanks and brutes.

This is proposed to lvl 40. I am currently 32 on the brute, and 35ish on my fire/fire tank. I figure that damage enhancements will come in the 40s. Or maybe not, look at the numbers with Build up and Fiery Embrace, then think ADD the fury to to that number.hmmmm..

I don't know what to expect out the CoV epic power or what ever they are called.

On to the guide partin simple dummy captain terms. Ignore the numbers if you want, look at the slotting.

Fiery Aura Powers:

Fire Shield (FS):
This is your first shield and it is a good one. Now, the most important thing about this shield is there is a second one in the power pools that helps it. Together, they add to significant protection against smashing and lethal damage. This one also has some cold protection, and disorient protection. If you skip the second one, they your resistance is markedly decreased. Take this puppy at the first chance you get and start slotting it.
Slotting: 3 Resist, 1 EndReduc
As Slotted: Resist Lethal, Smash Fire: 35.1%
Cold 11.7%
End .24 End per sec
w/ 1 EndRedu .18 EPS

Blazing Aura (BA):
You spontaneously pulse fire from your body and pulses every 2 seconds. I personally think this is a must have power that basically defines you as a fire brute and the first step to the AOE damage that later will melt minions while you smash away. This is an awkward power though as you can use it a number of ways. It deals some damage depending on fury bar. To effectively use this power, you need to turn into Muhammad Ali, and dance around to grab aggro and keep aggor using. I have played with the slotting on this to see what happens when you change the enhancements. Using 3 end redux does the best for your end management which you have to use in your late 20s and early 30s. Taunt duration doesnt seem to do much to it. It is a source of AOE damage at an expensive price. But it also works and damage goes up with fury.
Slotting: 2Acc, 2 Endured, 1 Damage
As Slotted: Damage .81 Fire
End: 1.04 End Per Sec
w/ 1 EndReduc .62 EPS

Healing Flames (HF):
This is an excellent power. This your self heal which you will do all the time if you solo. You will this power during all levels. The heal helps increase your tanking potential both at low levels when your shields are not up to snuff. Early slotted to 5 seems to work first, with 2 recharge and 3 heals works well until you mid 30s. I put the last recharge in it in the 30s, as now you start herding more. Sometimes it is smart to use this at the beginning of a fight so it will recharge in synch with you fight. That is something you figure out in the mid 20s.
Slotting: 2 recharge, 3 Health
As Slotted: Heal 48%
Resist Toxic: 15%
Recharge Base 60 sec
w/ 2 Recharges: 36 sec w/ haste 25 sec
End: 10

Temperature protection (TF):
The fire protection is only useful when both your fire and plasma shields are down because with those shields you have capped fire resistance. The 10% cold resistance would be nice if a larger percentage of mobs did cold damage. None of the guides have recommended it, and quite frankly neither my 35 tank nor my 32 brute has missed it. Skip this power. I can see taking it for pvp builds but that is not something I do all the time.
Baseline: Resist Fire 12%
Resist Cold 5.6%

Plasma shield (PS):
The other set defining shield for the fiery Aura Set. You surround yourself with plasma which protects you for fire, energy and dark energy; this shield will protect against Hold and sleep effects. But, this is the important part, there is no protection from Knockback or Immobilization. You will go bouncing all over the place with out Knockback protection. With this shield, you can be immobilized too, not held. You unfortunately will have to dip into the power pool for this protection. It is unfortunate that you have to waste two power slots for needed protection, but it has been this way and I dont see it changing much. Hopefully this will change.
Slotting: 3 Resist, 1 EndReduc
As Slotted: Resist Eng/Neg Energy 35%
Resist Fire 23%
End: .22 End per sec
w/ 1 EndReduc .16 EPS

Consume:
You send out a blast that draws blue flames for the surrounding opponents that refills your endurance bar. Without any endurance increasers in this power, hitting 3 or 4 even con mobs will refill your entire endurance bar. I use end mod first in this power, because if you need it, you need it, and you may not face a lot of the good ole boys when you need it. An End melt down means all your toggles drop and your entire defense go with it. Not good. The end mod will pull more endurance from fewer targets. The only downside to this power is the long recharge time. This power is not a replacement of stamina, but more a supplement to it. You will use end quickly being a brute.
Slotting: 2 acc, 1 EndMod, Recharges as you see fit
As Slotted: Damage 1.1 Fire
End: .52
Recharge 180 sec w/ Haste 105
With 3 Recharges 92 sec
With 3 Recharges w/haste 68 sec

Burn
Burn.. wow burn. It is the set defining power for fiery aura. And now totally skip-able. You lay down a patch that burns and deals damage over time. Now the recharge is longer, and the major thing that changed with this power is the fear. Once you lay this down, the good guys will scatter and run away. This is the last thing a brute needs to have happen, chasing the good guys while you fury bar drops? No thank you. I plan on picking this up at 50 with my fire/fire tank just for kicks. This power has a use if using it on held or immob foes.
Baseline: Damage 5.55 over 10 tics
Status Fear and Repel

Fiery Embrace (FE)
A buildup like power that fits better with the fire set especially for brutes. Most of the fire attacks have fire damage. This power has no effect on Burn, which Burn is now not needed as much. I have yet to put this in my tanker build but that will be at 40s. I just cant find a place for it right now, since you are currently capped at 40 in CoV.
Slotting: Ideally 3 recharges.
As Slotted: Damage Fire 100% 30 sec
Damage All other types: 10 sec
End: 8
Recharge: 180 sec
w/ 3 Recharge 92 sec
w/ 3 Recharge w/ haste 68 sec

Rise of the Phoenix (RotP):
Awakens are easy to come by and dont cost a precious power slot. And if you team, more than likely someone will be able to res you. The animation is nice on this power for a few seconds after you use it you are immune to all damage for a short time. Enough time to turn on your toggles and get debt again from the things that just killed you. It will knock back and disorients foes around you.
Slots: If you slot this power you must know something nobody else knows about it.
You can put heal all sorts of things. I can see maybe slotting health and end recovery if you are using this a Corruptor.
Numbers: no

Fire melee powers

Scorch:
Scorch is not a bad starting power, and for any other primary it would be good to slot it up. I am disappointed by it in the tanker set but here it is fine. It is a two handed thrust with burning hands. It has a brawl index and a fire index. But minor/moderate damage single target attacks that recharge quickly is what we want for a brute.
Slotting: 2 Acc, 1 Recharge
As Slotted: Damage: 3.2 w/o fury
Recharge: 3 sec
w/ 1 Recharge 2.2 sec
w/ 1 Recharge and haste 1.48 sec
End: 4.4

Fire sword:
This power is fine for a brute. In the early levels of the fire/fire brute, it has a relatively long recharge and not the greatest damage. But a very usable power all along with fury. I got it at first then repsec it out in the 20s to take better defenses. I picked this back up at 32 and am happy with it. Once the fury builds, this will do some damage.
Slotting: 2 Acc, 1 Recharge, 1 EndReduc
As Slotted: Damage: 4.4 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and FE 12.2 w/o Fury )
Recharge: 6 sec
w/ 1 Recharge: 4.6 sec
w/ 1 Recharge w/haste: 3.0
End: 7
w/ 1 EndRec 5

Cremate:
Now this is a smashing attack power for a brute. You raise your hands and smash down on your foe leaving them on fire. The animation is not bad, and it has benefits from FB. This is an endurance hog power. I find it needs two end reductions and a recharge, and then it can work nicely into your attack chain. Without the two end reduces, it recharges nicely and you use it so much, that you wipe out your endurance. At almost 10 a pop on top of BA and defense toggles, that just doesnt work for long.
Slotting: 2 Acc, 2 EndReduc, 1 Recharge
As Slotted: Damage: 5.2 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and Fe 16 w/o Fury)
Recharge: 8 sec
w/ 1 Recharge: 6 sec
w/ 1 Recharge w/haste: 4 sec
End: 8.5
w/ 2 EndReduc 5.1

Build Up (BU)
A nice power, too bad you I cant work it in to a build yet since CoV is capped at 40. I use this all the time on my blaster and love it. Increased Accuracy 50% and Increase Damage by 80% for 10 seconds. Its a nice power to increase 1 or 2 powers and then you wait until the next mob to take em down. Alternating with FE, or using them on a boss together. Then look at those number and add Fury.
Slotting: 3 Recharges
As Slotted: Recharge: 90 sec
w/ 3 Recharges 46 sec
w/ 3 Recharges w/haste: 33 sec
End: 5.2

Incinerate:
I like this power. It is another two handed attack from overhead. It is quite smashing too. It does DoT, which is not obviously that useful for a brute. But this another nice single target attack. The Dot is nice for things other than minions. The DoT does work, but you will probably not notice it. This works well in the attack chain. I need to look at the server, I may have not slotted this as I have in the game. This is planned tho.
Slotting: 2 Acc, 1 Recharge 1 End
As Slotted: Damage: Damage: 6.9 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and Fe 24 w/o Fury)
Recharge:
w/ 1 Recharge:
End:
w/ 1 EndReduc:

Taunt:
Now, do you need a taunt if you are a brute and Fiery Aura? No, the blazing aura will do just fine for drawing aggor and keeping it. I have skipped this power as a brute, and recently respected it out to lvl 35 on my tank. For a tanker, this is an important power especially in the lower levels. I respec-ed it out to start slotting weave on the tank. For a brute, not needed as you will want to be attacking or being attacked for the fury bar. Taunt has a long animation time, so I skipped it.

Breath of Fire (BoF)
Well, I have seen a lot of tankers and blasters with this power. I dont have it, tried it once or twice on test. What do I think of it? Well, I am not too fond of it. It is a narrow cone so you will need to put a cone extension in it.
Baseline: Damage: 4.6 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and Fe 12.9 w/o Fury)
Recharge: 10
End: 10

Fire sword circle (FSC):
I have this on the tanker and really like this power, whether it is good for a brute, I dont know yet To use this power somewhat frequently, you have to reduce the end cost. It does have a high end cost but slotted with 3 damage; this is a nice power that hits a lot at once. There is one thing about this, is there is a long delay at the end of the animation which would not be good for the fury bar. I suspect once your fury bar is up, then one blow with this will do some serious damage to a lot of the good ol' boys in one smashing move. You want to reserve it as a finisher in order to keep the fury bar up and keep. Once slotted, this is a nice opening strike, or a nice ending blow for a group. This is slotting for the tank, and think you would have to have the same for the brute.
Slotting: 2 Acc, 2 EndReduc I Recharge.
As Slotted Damage: 5.7 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and Fe 16 w/o Fury)
Recharge: 20 sec
w/ 1 Recharges: 15
w/ 1 Recharges w/haste: 9.8 sec
End: 18.5
w/ 2 EndReduc: 11

Greater Fire Sword (GFS)
Neither of my toons have this power yet. So this is based on numbers and experience of playing. I am still debating on which one would be better for the brute, I am inclined to think this one, as it is a single attack with better activation times and better end cost. This is the end of the Fire secondary, and at lvl 38. You could go for this or FSC. If you solo, you are much more efficient with the DOT powers and end reduction. You can hit one, then switch to others attacks as the DoT happens. Just like incinerate this is a good power for bosses/AVs/Monsters
Slotting: 2 Acc, 2 EndRed, 1 Recharge
As Slotted: Damage: 9.6 w/o Fury, BU or FE (w/BU and Fe 35? w/o Fury)
Recharge: 20 sec
w/ 1 Recharges: 9
w/ 1 Recharges w/haste: 5.9
End: 12.7
w/ 2 EndReduc: 7.6

Power Pools and Choices

Leaping:

Combat jumping:
This is a decent power that doesnt look like much, but there is more to it. First, it is immobilization protection. Most people slot if for end reduction and forget it. Well, you can do that, but if you start slotting it with SO defense buffs, it gets really interesting. I have this slotted on my Fire/fire tank, but not fully yet. But it is a noticeable difference in damage taken and healing flames usage, especially used with weave. I have this three slotted, one end reduction and 2 defense buffs and plan on adding the third defense enhancement. But using CJ, and weave with enhancements, I was able to handle a small group of foes, up to 4 levels above me. There was no way to do that before. And they are not both fully slotted yet. Interesting. Another thing with CJ and SJ, in a panic situation, when you switch off Combat jumping to turn on SJ to get away, and you can get immobilized because the CJ is off.
Slotting: 1 EndReduc 3 Defense
As Slotted: Resist: Defense 3.9% to all Smash, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Eng, Neg Eng,
End: .07
w/ 1 EndReduc: .06 (cheap.i dont know why)

Super Jump:
Like or not, this is going to be your travel power. You need combat jumping for immobilization protections and you need acrobatics for Knockback protection. You can try hover with combat jumping, but you spin in the air, unable to attack, unable to do anything as a tank, and so when continuous action is needed to build fury, spinning is a waste of time and fury. I hope you like jumping.

Acrobatics: Well finally this is need for the Knockback protection, available at lvl 20 and I would take it as soon as you can get it. I just put one end reduction in it, and leave it at that.
Slotting: 1 EndReduc
As Slotted: End

Fighting:

Boxing/Kick:
Well you have to have one of these, your choice. I usually take boxing. But you can look at and decide which one you want.

Tough:
Now this is important. It is your second shield for smashing and lethal damage. I dont see a lot of brutes with this power but it seems to me to be mandatory. If you werent a CoH veteran, then you dont know about Tough. I have seen other tankers with out it, but think they needed a lot more healing. Some people wait to take this later in builds, personally the first respect I did, I put it in early and it turned out to be a positive change immediately. I suggest you get this one, and slot it ASAP.
Slotting: 3 Resist Damage, 1 EndReduc
As Slotted: Resist Smashing Lethal: 18% (yes, that stacks with FS, Tanker is better yet)
End: .33
w/ 1 End Reduc: .25 (note the high end cost)

Weave:
Now under a lot of scrutiny on the forums, but with i7 affecting defense powers, this will be a nice power again. But that is speculation. It was out of vogue when I started, but after extensive playing in Hero Planner, this becomes a needed power. I just started slotting this one at 35 on my tanker, and quite frankly, this with combat jumping made a significant impact. The forums were negative on this power and I initially skipped it. Boy was that a mistake. I have put it into both builds but later. Later in the game, you get bigger mobs and defense helps with more on the size of the mob as I understand it.
Slotting: 1 EndReduc 3 Defense
As Slotted: Resist: Defense 5.0%
End: .34 End Per Sec
w/ 1 EndReduc: .26 EPS (note what a high end cost)

Speed:
Hasten
This is the reason we dip into this pool at all. Haste is not perma anymore but it significantly affect the recharge of Consume and all the recharges of you attacks when it is up. Quicker recharges mean more fury. I think this is a no brainer, especially since I tried to not put it in the build. You pretty much got to have this one too. Look at the numbers above for Consume alone w/wo haste, and you will see why. If that boosted recharge rate is present for a good part of the time, it has got to help.

Fitness:

Swift/Hurdle:
Well, you can choose, but hurdle does one thing that Swift doesnt. It affects Super Jump. So you boost your own travel power.

Health:
You need this one and need to slot 3 healths in it. I tried to put this off in the first build and it was a long haul to respect. Once I respect-ed into this earlier, it was much nicer.

Stamina:
This is pretty much required. If you run all the toggles for BA, PS, FS Tough, CJ and Weave, you will have a negative endurance regeneration. You can't fight for long that way. Consume is not enough and if you dont get it, you will be out of end all the time and turning things on and off all the time. As A brute, you will be using fury and the more end you have the better You will still run out of end, but it will take longer. Consume will be up at times to supplement your end needs.

here is the build: I hope you enjoy it. I have. You can also choose alittle different order of things if you like, say choosing Plasma Shield earlier, and boxing/tough later. Or build the toon till 24 and then respec into better slotting. But this build and the slots.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: DaBruttepost
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Scorch==> Acc(1)Acc(13)Rechg(13)
01) --> Fire Shield==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)EndRdx(5)
02) --> Blazing Aura==> Acc(2)Acc(9)EndRdx(11)EndRdx(11)Dmg(31)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Heal(4)Heal(5)Heal(7)Rechg(15)Rechg(15)Rechg(34)
06) --> Hasten==> Rechg(6)Rechg(7)Rechg(34)
08) --> Cremate==> Acc(8)Acc(9)Rechg(23)EndRdx(23)EndRdx(31)Empty(42)
10) --> Boxing==> Empty(10)
12) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(12)DefBuf(33)DefBuf(33)DefBuf(34)
14) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Tough==> DmgRes(16)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(17)EndRdx(19)
18) --> Plasma Shield==> DmgRes(18)DmgRes(19)DmgRes(21)EndRdx(21)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20)
22) --> Hurdle==> Jump(22)
24) --> Health==> Heal(24)Heal(25)Heal(25)
26) --> Stamina==> EndMod(26)EndMod(27)EndMod(27)
28) --> Consume==> Acc(28)Acc(29)EndMod(29)Rechg(37)Rechg(40)Rechg(40)
30) --> Incinerate==> Acc(30)Acc(31)EndRdx(37)Rechg(42)
32) --> Fire Sword==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Rechg(37)EndRdx(40)
35) --> Weave==> EndRdx(35)DefBuf(36)DefBuf(36)DefBuf(36)
38) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(38)Acc(39)EndRdx(39)EndRdx(39)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

History and background:

I started tanking (or playing the Fire/Fire set) after i6 and ED, because there were no tankers anymore. Everyone was mad at i5 and Ed, so finding a tanker became hard. The Fire/fire set was quite popular, but with nerfs, pretty much disappeared. Then CoV came out, and the Brute subtype with ED built in. My understanding comes from playing both the tanker pre/post ED and i6 and the brute, the slotting for a tanker and brute are totally different. As is the play style. So I took to the forums and did some searching and did some tinkering with SherkSilver hero planner. And a lot of the doom players had jaded the forums, so it took some time to find a good build and powers. Most of it has been from trial and error compiled from the forums and playing, there is a lot of good information out there, some outdated and jaded. So this is an attempt to put all that info in one place in an updated guide and make it applicable for a brute. Today I played my brute with a CoH veteran, who though my build was perfect. She has 44 Fire/Fire tank that she retired after i4what did I tell ya. She just kept on about how it was.

Hero Planner:

If you don't know what SherkSilver hero planner is, do an internet search and then check it out, the hero planner is also found under the guides area. It is really helpful and seems accurate to me. If the numbers in hero planner are even close, it is helpful; you can see numbers which helps a lot. Another thing you can do in hero planner is plan slotting, which easily shows you, you can only slot a number of powers to the maximum. You will run out of slots before you can slot all of them. Even at 50. And it makes slotting choices clearer. You can see an estimate of end cost, so you can think about all the aspects of the power. I will post the rounded values from the planner. For the damage numbers, it can get complicated. I will post what the total damage number. A base number and I will put some comparison below, so you can get a basic barometer. I am not putting FE or BU info on the numbers but you can then decide if you want them. Both Build up and FE may add to your damage, thus arresting quicker, and probably be used only in thick battles. You arrest to fast and run out of things that make furybummer, the smashing stops.

Accuracy and power slotting.

This next few paragraph are important. I am sure some people will disagree.

Now everyone knows there are types of enhancements, like training origin (TO), dual origin (DO), and Single origin (SO) And everyone knows that SOs are better than DOs which are better than TOs. New players dont know this. The equation to land a successful hit has to hit in it as well as the power accuracy, and is complicated. So a simply way to look at it is this way. I put 2 SO Acc enhancement in any power I use repetitively. But 2 SO accuracy is important for several reasons:

1 you do hit most of the time and boy missing is really the pits
2. You end up wasting less endurance if you hit most of the time
3. You seem to do better against 3+ baddies.

Yes, with two SO acc, I can fight 4 lvls up. One SO acc doesnt cut it. You will miss all day long. Two helps that. Period. If you want the xp, then higher difficulty levels and more xp is the way to go. Here is an example of the inherent accuracy of one power, and you can see exactly what I have been looking at, and since playing with 2 Acc, seeing in the game.

Here is an example for the the planner, and yes this seem to hold true from game play. The numbers stop at + 2, so I trended them down for lvl 3 and 4s which may not be correct.

Fire Sword Circle:

This is not posting well. So here we go. The First number is Base Acc, the second is for 1 SO Acc Enhanc, and the third is 2 SO Accs Enhance

Foes are Even or 0 Lvl: 75% 100% 125%

Foes are +1 Lvl: 68% 92% 118%

Foes are +2 Lvl: 51% 86% 110%

Foes are ? +3 Lvl: 40s? 60s? 90s?

Foes are? +4 Lvl: 20? 40? 70s?

Combat Jumping and Weave:

Understanding Damage and Resistance is complicated and I dont have it down. I do know one of the Ice tanker sets has Defense instead of Resists, and it maxes at 26%. When you add Weave and Combat jumping together, that is almost 9 % WITH your resists of FS, PS and Tough. Hmmmm..I had a respect from a trial, I do them for xp. My fire/fire tank at 34 (with cj not slotted for defense and no weave) went from groups of 34s and 35s to small groups of 37s, 38s and 39s with partial slotting on both weave and cj at 35. The amoun t of damage I took was decreased noticably and my use of Healing Flames went down. My mouth fell open as i went from small groups of 2-4 35s, then to 36s, to 37, to 38 and to 39s. I would miss frequently on the 39s, and it took a longer time to arrest them. Surrounded by 20 goons is another story and your lvl drops down as the number of opponents goes up.

I will see if i can lvl the brute today and test this in live, and report back to you what the CJ slotting does for mob lvls. So soloing 4-5 even con mobs with yellows and oranges is fine with one slot in CJ for defense buffs. I did try a group of 5 Red Spider Crab Longhorns (35s) with purple boss, and put a serious dent in the group at lvl 32. Had to run, but they were all red and purple. Not bad for a brute and not fully slotted either.

Thanks for reading and have fun playing your brute. If anyone has any suggestions or other suggestion would be appreciated.

TT

Fire_Storm · 02-06-2006 09:37 PM

Okay, its official at this point. I lvled in my mission tonight. I went out and leveled, putting all the slots in Combat Jumping. So that is 3 SO's for defense and one for end reduction. I had bought the defense buff before. After re-entering the mission, there was a noticable decrease in damage, my health stayed much higher and my healing flames...

Lets say i use them now when i need them which is less frequent. Say in the middle of 4 or more even cons. Quite a bit less used in oranges. And almost didn't use healing flames on a Red boss with an yellow or orange minion (I didn't look) but the boss was hurtin a lot more than i was at the time. I also used no inspiration on anything when I came back in. The minion 'was arrested' by BA only and Fury. Nice. I did notice that before the boss.

I am now 33. Just did a small pack (6) of red Freaks, 36s, had to use insp and Healing flames and Consume. It was close. As the TV theme goes...."Moving on up..."

An improvement.

Next weave.

TT

Fire_Storm · 02-10-2006 07:29 AM

Alright, finally 35. and picked up weave.

I still am testing this and how well it works. Last night, soloing I did manage a purple liet with 5 reds around him. Wailers. 38s, I think. Again solo, 4 oranges np, 3 reds np. 5 reds, well a fight. Solo, five reds and purple, well it was a SMASHING fight now. Have managed 2 39s mins for 1k a pop of xp on Thorn Island, but three is too many.

I stumbled across a post in the forums about damage enhancements in attacks??? That was one of the reasons this is a respec build, as i had damage enhancements before, but no fury. Well, with this build, generally you will be SMASHING your way to damage.

All damage is thru fury. Just like the brute was designed to be.

What does that mean? Cremate with 2 Accs, Two ENDs and 1 Damage is ALMOST enought to one hit a white with enough fury. YEP. Almost one shoting things now in the middle of a fight. But BA seems to build with Fury, so sometimes it is hard to tell things because of the escalating damage from BA.

Fury in this build, in general, well ateast 50% most of the time. I have no problems staying at 70% or above in a well chosen fight. I prefer to stay in the 70% or above range.

This is really a FIRE/FIRE guide to SMASH!

I will test more today on weave.

Thanks

TT

ATRAtwo · 02-10-2006 02:57 PM

Good Guide.

I haven't rolled a Brute yet, but you have good observations on the best ways
to obtain Fury, which agree with what I've observed Brutes in teams doing.

However, some perspective on endurance:

with no stamina, you recover 1.67 endurance/second.
(technically 5.00 every 3 seconds)

So, over a 3-second period, combat jumping eats:

(0.07 * 3) out of 5.00 endurance. That is 21 out of 500 points, so to speak.

And you used a slot on end reduction, reducing that 7 to 6, and thus the
21 to 18.

I posit that saving 0.01 endurance/second was a waste of a slot for you.

Not that you need to respec anytime soon, but my thoughts on slotting CJ are
either

A) default slot, +defense

or

B) 3 slots, all +defense

In contrast, 1 end reduction on Tough or Weave pretty much saves the entire
cost of CJ. :-)

I look forward to your expanded guide post-Ish 7. Keep up the good work!

Fire_Storm · 02-10-2006 05:43 PM

The final post on the build until (I7) for now.

Thanks for the thoughts on CJ, I never even looked at the numbers, because that was derived from play and the tanker. I am always open to input and alternative ways to do things.

I had to have CJ with EndReduc to even fight as the tank, but the brutes end cost are different and again from play and pre-respec. I only looked End on Cremate now, the end cost is 8, but with hasten the recharge is about 4-5 second. So it will only take 20 seconds to reduce your total end by 1/4 and that is not counting toggles and other attacks. By playing you had to have two ends to keep in Cremate, just to use it to build fury. I never thought about about the CJ End, as most recs come from play and not the guide. I use the guide for numbers and stuff. The defenses are the same for the tank and the brute it seems.

I have been doing some thinking, and the last power for the Fire/Fire Brute should be:

Fire Sword Circle.

Fire Sword Circle FSC, well slotted this way 2 Acc, 1 end and 3 dam (all SO, of course)
FSC will with one application: (depending on your target and their resistances)

Take a mob even con minions to half to almost half health.
Take a mob of yellows to about 60% health
Take a mob of oranges to 70%-80 health
Take a red of reds to 80-90% health.

I just did some number checking in hero planner, and here is the damage for

Nova (yes Nova, which has similar numbers as all the nukes) = 24 3 SO Dams

FSC = 11 w/out Fury, with FE and BU is 21.4

Fury, the hallmark of the Brute, I don't think anyone realizes that you can take a red almost down to about half health, while you fight the purple next to him. The red, next to you that you never attacked, down to almost half health just using BA and Fury? That is just awesome!

I am thinking about adding FSC slotted correctly, to an almost full fury bar in combat. Now how does that Fury multiply damage again? 80% should be about 240% damage increase.

let's make FSC clear,
Nova = 24 SO Dams
FSC w/out Fury 11
FSC with Fury at 80%=26
FSC with Fury at 80% and FE and BU= 51 I think that is one giant BOOM!

Just add a fulcrum Shift in there....the game might not let you do damage this high.

Now add the recharge times in therebut wait there is no need...lol

At almost full fury, you would literally "explode" and WILL kill everything around you maybe even the boss.

Once you get access to the next power pool, you can consider you choices because, you can always go back and pick up Build Up and Fiery Embrace as you make you way to 50.

So at 50, you can be the ULTIMATE king or queen of the most damaging set up in the whole game.

A trump for the Fire/Fire Set.
People complain that it is gimped due to the lack of Knockback and Immob protection. lol. You have to spend those extra powers and look at what you could have at 50.

I think I am in love with the Devs.

I find this Fire/Fire Brute, just the epitome of a brute. I hope this guide helped.
I wont know for sure until well after I7.

Good Luck and have fun.

TT

Vort · 02-16-2006 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For those interested in the post ED I6 version of a fire/fire brute, thanks for reading this. I will gab for a bit, and then get to the build.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm very interested as to WHERE you got your info for a PRE-ED brute of any kind.

Also, WEAVE? On a BRUTE? No wonder you're having end problems.

And taking Fire Sword at level 32 instead of Fire Sword Circle? Stamina only at 26? NO Fiery Embrace OR Build Up? And....no damage enhs AT ALL IN ANY ATTACK WHATSOEVER?

Jeez, I'd hate to team with you.

MagicFlyingHippy · 02-16-2006 07:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fire Sword Circle.

Fire Sword Circle FSC, well slotted this way 2 Acc, 1 end and 3 dam (all SO, of course)
FSC will with one application: (depending on your target and their resistances)

Take a mob even con minions to half to almost half health.
Take a mob of yellows to about 60% health
Take a mob of oranges to 70%-80 health
Take a red of reds to 80-90% health.

I just did some number checking in hero planner, and here is the damage for

Nova (yes Nova, which has similar numbers as all the nukes) = 24 3 SO Dams

FSC = 11 w/out Fury, with FE and BU is 21.4

Fury, the hallmark of the Brute, I don't think anyone realizes that you can take a red almost down to about half health, while you fight the purple next to him. The red, next to you that you never attacked, down to almost half health just using BA and Fury? That is just awesome!

I am thinking about adding FSC slotted correctly, to an almost full fury bar in combat. Now how does that Fury multiply damage again? 80% should be about 240% damage increase.

let's make FSC clear,
Nova = 24 SO Dams
FSC w/out Fury 11
FSC with Fury at 80%=26
FSC with Fury at 80% and FE and BU= 51 I think that is one giant BOOM!

Just add a fulcrum Shift in there....the game might not let you do damage this high.

Now add the recharge times in therebut wait there is no need...lol

At almost full fury, you would literally "explode" and WILL kill everything around you maybe even the boss.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, your math is completely wrong, ignoring or contradicting a number of fundamental rules of the game's calculations.

First up, damage boosts are additive, not multiplicative. Which you'd notice if you actually tried this insanity. FSC with full fury and FE and BU and 3 damage SOs is actually 32.7 brawls, not 51. So, that's a lot less damage.

Technically, this is more than a 3-slotted Nova, in pure brawl numbers. But thing about the Brawl Index scale is that it isn't constant across archetypes. It measures damage in terms of how much it does compared to an unslotted unboosted Brawl from that character. Brawl doing very different amounts across archetypes, due to the different ATs having different damage scalers. For example, a Brute's Brawl, without any boosts, is about 70% of the damage of an equally-levelled Blaster's Brawl.

So, 70%. Suddenly, in terms of Blaster-scale BI, that Fire Sword Circle is doing 22.9 Brawls, to Nova's 24.4.

Now, don't get me wrong, that's good damage, but it's under fantastically rare conditions, and the Blaster's numbers are skewed rather low. Nova with 3 SOs, if under Aim and Build Up like your Brute is, actually does 40.6 brawls. Wow, look at that, very nearly twice the Brute's FSC.

Or, let's try it without those boosts. Just the SOs, and let's even be so nice as to give the Brute full Fury. In Blaster brawl terms, that's 15.7 vs 24.4. Wow, still only about 64% of the damage.

Jerk 4 Life
In brightest day, in blackest night/No evil shall escape my sight/Let those who worship evil's might/Beware my power ... Green Lantern's light!/(Meowth, that's right!)

My Arcs: #4827: Earth For Humans. #6391: Young Love.

Mirai · 02-16-2006 08:20 PM

Personally I think Blazing Aura is way overrated. I didn't take it. The AoE damage is offset by the high endurance cost. It's nice to have if you want to go heavy on AoE damage, but I prefer a single target approach (which is quite possible given the five single target attacks).

And being a little bit of a rebel, I went with Fly instead of Super Jump, with Hover used for knockback protection instead of Acrobatics. Hover isn't quite as good for that as Acrobatics, but it's available earlier, and I much prefer to fly.

LordSparky · 02-20-2006 01:44 AM

Hey,

First up I just wanted to say thanks for the guide. Regardless of agree/disagree I really appreciate it when people go to so much effort to help out a fellow hero/villain.

Anyway, I have the lvl 50 Fire/Mace tank on CoH & a lvl 30 Fire/Fire Brute in CoV so your post is really interesting.

I had a couple of questions/observations:

1. Hasten - is it really needed? Just dont know whay I would need it given you have almost always got something to attack with & I hope to not need HF & consume that often. If you always have an attack, then quicker recharges does NOT mean more fury?

2. I know you said this is a respec build so I guess that explains Stamina at lvl 26. Word of warning to people using this guide to build from scratch: you WILL need/want stamina at lvl 20 & slotted at lvl 21. Its no fun to watch the fury bar drop while you suck wind for end.

3. Is it worth waiting a bit for consume? Again with the view that I am building from scratch I am thinking that if you can manage End issues early on you can fit in a bit more offense/defense a bit earlier. I was going to take consume at lvl 30 but decided to pick up the fighting pool instead after reading your guide.

4. Just that point on CJ - so just 3 slots needed all with DefBuff? No need to slot EndReds? Is it worth slotting if I am not going to get Weave?

5. Tough - am thinking that the slot I saved from CJ can be placed as a Endred slot here to much greater effect yeh?

6. Acrobatics - Any ideas what the end stats are for this?

Otherwise I got some really useful stuff out of this guide - nice job.

Mirai · 02-20-2006 06:45 AM

Hmm, the OP did say Hasten was needed too. I disagree on that. It's easy to fill up on attack powers. The only real reason to have Hasten is to get Consume to recycle more often, which is only important if you're blowing through endurance quickly. Personally I don't have a problem managing endurance, but then I don't have Blazing Aura.

Mafalin · 02-20-2006 09:00 AM

IIRC combat jumping was changed to cost as much as hover in a patch a while ago, couldn't find the notes though.

Fire_Storm · 02-23-2006 01:00 PM

hey,

I don't play the brute that much anymore, because quite frankly, he levels too quickly, and there is nothing to do with him when he hits 40. Levels too quickly? yep, and with MINIMAL damage enhancements.

What was the name of that guy who said he didn't want to team. I need to remember his toon names so i avoid him at all cost. VORT, check out all the links below, i personally think these people and their links below know more than you ever will. You will find what I am saying about the fire/fire set is clearly right in line with the tanker guides from previous issues. I did beta test CoV for a bit too. There is not alot difference in the two types. All the defense powers are the same, and you have a different attacks (tanks have combust, brutes have cremate) Since my guide is so similar to those tanker guides, lets face it, me and all those other people must just be idiots....lol

You can build toons for different purposes. This is just my take on the brute. You may have had a different play history. Needless to say, my brute completely correlates to the guides below from trial and error. They take stamina at 26 and hasten 32 sometimes. Read the posts noting the differences in defensive and offensive builds. You have all the liabilites of the fire defense sets. Weave is currently up in the air but Statesman already said that defense will now scale? and weave may turn out to good again. It got a big nerf in 5 and ed.

I did say this was a respec build. I found them quite useful as I have build my toon.

And you should be thinking about sustained prolonged fight with AV or heroes in CoV. Infurno guide is great as well, but long. Mephe's guide has a scanker and defensive versions. I have built a tankerish brute with serious damage output due to fury.

Just to spell things out for people who don't get this, I had fs, inc, creamte and scorch and boxing until I respec OUT all the damage enhancements and attack for defense at 24. Well he just killed too fast with damage enhancements, and there really wasn't any fury. I got compliments on him when he was build that way (with the defense and tough with damage ehancments) but, NO fury. His fury was limp and needed some CoX viagra. So I started playing. By all means, that was a nice toon, the plain build with tought and stamina and more damage. I went defensive build and then went into CJ and weave. A dead toon does no damage at all. If you built him straight up. I see lots of both tankers and brutes with out my build, and they seem to be fine but I don't play that toon so I don't know what they play like. I think that is the whole point of the brute is to generate fury. A strong defense ALLOWS you to withstand more, to fight longer and build more fury. All damage now, well is from fury. And that is what this toon does barring the MM and Dom heavy teams. Basically, as he is now, well, he warms up on the first few and the purples, and then turns into killing machine as the fury builds. While soloing, I personally think it is amusing, to have taken on a pruple and red or two, building fury on the purple, and when the purple goes down, the reds are about at half health and i never attacked them. So as far a I can tell, the red at 60% health with out an attack, has to be from fury and BA. Then I SMASH them down quite quickly. As i move through the 40s, I add damage ehancaments while filling out the rest of the attack chain. I am curious to see how this build will stack up against the lvl 50s Arch Heroes. He slugs his way through mission without a problem. I quasi tank with the toon, not near like my tank.

I pick up things like BU and FE in the 40s. Why wait? you don't have to, but i pick them up later more along the lines of 44, 47, and 50. You only get three enahncemnt slots once you get up there. So I am fully rounded out, and quite skilled at my toon in all situations when i pick them up. Just my preference. I am defense geared as well for the AV or AH fight to come. And if you don't know, check out Mephe's guide that talks about picking up attacks at 35. And Mephe picks up FE and BU late too. So did Infurno, as I did that from the planner alone and playing with slotting powers. If you pick things up too early, sometime you have to put slots in things you don't want to. I really think we all need to praise Vort for his insight especially after reading Infurno, and Mephe.

I am still mixed on the weave thing, because no one knows what the change in defense with mean in game play. I am thinking weave can be skipped or taken quite late (late 40s).

Consider this the history of the whole set and the game and my play time with the tank and brute really really do synch well with all this stuff below.

But if you have questions, you should check out these other posts for the fire/fire tanks, which has the same defense, just a couple of different attack powers quite literally.

Mephe's guide to fire tankers and here is a link
Mephe's guide

and then Infurnos updated guide to the fire/fire build with a links.
Instruction
lecture 1
Lectue 2
lecture 3
Lecture 4

And then this one, in the updated recs for fire tankers for i6 posted at the end of the guides in the tankers forums on page 4.
Tanker forums

Now for the FSC, my guide give me a base number of 11.2

How you add fury in, I am just not clear. Check out this.
Brute=SMASH

What you consider base, the brawls and the fire tics, and how FE and BU affect things, if BU and FE make it 21. 4, then do yo double that for Fury if 200% making it 42. Or do you use thr base 11 and then the enhancements, and then add fury and BU? Or does the Fury work after FU and BU? well i will leave that up to other more knowlegedable people. I wondered if numbers were a mistake in my calcs. You can look at this and go with the base number and figure it out. I just look at it this way. That has FSC has some serious damage potential with fury. And that just rocks since it is AOE. I stated i didn't know if the numbers were correct, but they just give you something to think about andgive you something to consider even if they are wrong and decide how you play.

Lord Sparky,

I would be interested in seeing what you did with your tanker and brute. I would love to team up some time either in heroes or villians. I think your tank would love my 45 grav/kin troller who has made it to the top 10 healing boards and is a troller..lol. I play on triumph. I think i managed a whole team, as the only healer doing an enitre AV Map and AV one day. It was ugly at times, but i think I did about 8-10 avs that day. I lost count. lol

The fire/fire set mature late as you know from your tanker and brute. Meaning late 30s and 40s. I also plan and play my toons that way especially with the double SO acc. I every now and then will ask a 50 something here and there (when buffing 2 tankers on the Dreck Map set for 8, with my kin troller). These are hard to build and a tight build at that. Look at Infurno and Mephe' guides and stuff. Hasten at 32 i saw once. You can chose which way to go. I built straight up to respec and then left stamina for tough in the respec, opting to pick back up stamina again later in the 20s. in my late 20s, once i had tough, i then really needed stamina. It was tricky and I have no right answer, just that you need both. Pre-respec build was more balance, more offense with damage enhancements, less defense, overall a nice toon that did well but no fury. I almost gave up on fury all together. Stamina did improve things but is is still an end heave toon, or mine was. That may be my play style tho(My new toon is kin/rad, which is intense to play too, it is almost as challenging as this toon) So I chose to go for stamina and then respec it out for defense and then back to stamina. After picking up tough I really needed stamina. It is a tricky build.

Hasten, well, after playing it, when hasten is off, i notice more on the tanker than the brute, but i find that it helps. I actually started this toon trying not to get hasten and stamina, it just didn't work. I put them off as long as i could. Hasten is not like it was. So that is your choise. I just prefer it primarily for Consume. Being slick on the keyboard and really timing things works best due to the acitvation times of the attacks. Even with hasten, there is period of time when hasten is not active and yo need an attack. I have dispensed with boxing all together now. It is not even in my tray. I did use that as an attack after the first respec.

Tough/Combat jumping and Weave.
Tough, yep 3 dam resists and one end, CJ 3 defense, As i move farther with thte tank, Weave and Acro are seriously end hogs and more toggles. The tank has 3 defens in Weave and two ends. I am moving adding a slot Aco for a second end reduction. Acro really looks bad at end cost now. In the planner, changing weave to two endreduc and acro to two, with one end on fs,ps and tough, yeilds the best end regeneration rate out of all the combinations. No one said my planner was right. I see that happening on the brute for now and leaving weave and CJ to see what i7 will do to defense. hindsight says that weave should go with things like BU and FE, very late in the build giving you more offense earlier and then more defense more toward 50.

Good luck and I am always open to input.

Thnx

Fire_Storm · 02-23-2006 09:24 PM

If you do take the time to look at the fire tanker information, please remember that brute defenses are quite a bit lower than the tankers.

And it becomes quite evident, when you look at the Infurno's fourth lecture, the conundrum of weave. Even in play, the use of weave may be so slight, that my results are from chance. Again tho, I chose weave because defense is gettiing an overhaul for i7.

And believe me, there is such a difference between the two when you play them, it is unreal. Now it takes me two or three mission of cautious play to move back to the brute after the tanker.

PowerLeveler · 02-23-2006 11:36 PM

A few points, speaking as a lvl 40 fire/fire brute:

1. According to SherkSilver's hero planner, Combat Jumping offers only 2.5% defense. Defense enhancements work differently than most enhancements, in that even con SO offers only a 20% bonus to the defense of the ability. So, even with three SOs, you'd still only be getting (2.5 * (1.0+.6)=) 4% defense. Compare this with a /kin brute's dampening field, which, un-slotted offers 12.5%. CJ is not in the game as a defensive power. It's there to provide immobilization protection and mobility.

2. I also have a lvl 50 fire/ice tank, so I'm rather well versed in the difference between the two archetypes. Brutes are NOT tanks. ESPECIALLY not /fire brutes. The firey aura set exists, even in the character description, as a high damage set, not one with strong defenses. Even with tough and fire shield three slotted for resists, you're looking at 54% damage resist vs smashing/lethal. Fire damage is 60%, but cold (11.31), toxic (none, save for when you just used healing flames), and psionic (none, ever) will rip you apart. Also, you're only reducing incoming damage. You're still taking all of the negative effects those powers that are hitting you. Effects like holds (which stack), defense debuffs, resist debuffs (ever fought wailers?), slows, etc etc and so on. You're not built for taking heavy fire, even min/maxed out for it. It really goes against everything that /fire is there for. You said, "You will find what I am saying about the fire/fire set is clearly right in line with the tanker guides from previous issues." Well, you're not building a TANK. What you're doing here would be like trying to build a corrupter with blaster guides. You're totally ignoring the ACTUAL strengths of the character in favor of what you would like to crowbar them into doing.

3. /fire is already very heavy on toggles. The one passive we get, temperature protection, is a joke of a power. Two shields, combat jump, and acrobatics are all needed to stay alive and status free. If you run blazing aura, that's number 5, and tough and weave bring the total to SEVEN toggles running. This, on top of a solid attack chain for fury fun, leaves you pretty much out of end. Especially if hasten wears off at a bad time.

4. The best tool a fire/fire brute HAS for defense is the killing speed that you opt out of. Quick side note: Fury exists as a means to an end, namely the killing of things. It is not and end unto itself. You don't get xp just for running a full fury bar. You get it for USING that fury to kill things. If you're killing things ungodly quick, even with half a fury bar, you're still killing things ungodly quick. Anyway. Fire/* brutes don't have the damage mitigation attacks that other powersets do, like disorients from energy, or knockdown/up from super strength and stone. All they have is damage, and if you don't capitalize on that, you're really making a gimped fire/fire brute.

5. There are two kinds of attacks for a brute: Fury builders and fury users. In the beginning game, the builders are key. Especially in fire/* since we don't get the really early massive damage attacks (cremate only kinda counts). Fire Sword Circle and Greater Fire Sword are the two best fury users you'll have. Taking them at 38, in the case of GFS, or not at all, in the case of FCS as you've opted, leaves you, again, ignoring the strengths of the powersets. Fire/fire already blooms late, don't make it worse by passing up a true SMASH attack in favor of what should be a fury builder (fire sword).

6. Basically, the biggest problem I see with your build is you really wish you were a /stone brute, or even a fire tank. I've seen those guys in action, they really can build up to be a damage sponge, because that's what they were designed for. You even said it: "Well he just killed too fast with damage enhancements, and there really wasn't any fury." Why does fury exist? To make things die. So...if you're making things die...you still win, even if fury plays a smaller role than normal. Do the math! You don't get xp for soaking up damage! You get it for dishing it out.

In closing, focus on the strengths of the powersets you pick. Not the imaginary strengths you'd like them to have.

BlackSun17 · 02-24-2006 08:59 AM

Mirror,

I like your points, esp. about playing to this AT's strengths.

I just hit 30 on my fire/fire brute yesterday, and added tough. It already seems to be making a difference, and it appears that my def. build is similar to yours.

Interested in seeing your build - would you be able to post it here?

Go Team Venture!

PowerLeveler · 02-24-2006 11:33 AM

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: GoPL
Level: 41
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Fiery Melee
Secondary: Fiery Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Scorch==> Acc(1)Acc(11)Rechg(15)Dmg(19)Dmg(31)Dmg(31)
01) --> Fire Shield==> EndRdx(1)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(3)DmgRes(5)
02) --> Cremate==> Acc(2)Acc(13)Rechg(13)Dmg(31)Dmg(37)Dmg(39)
04) --> Healing Flames==> Rechg(4)Rechg(5)Rechg(7)Heal(7)Heal(9)Heal(9)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Hurdle==> Jump(8)
10) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(10)Acc(11)Rechg(15)Dmg(36)Dmg(37)Dmg(37)
12) --> Build Up==> Rechg(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Plasma Shield==> EndRdx(16)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(19)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18)
20) --> Consume==> Acc(20)Acc(21)Rechg(21)Rechg(25)Rechg(25)EndMod(29)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(24)
26) --> Fire Sword Circle==> Acc(26)Acc(27)EndRdx(27)Dmg(34)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)
28) --> Blazing Aura==> EndRdx(28)EndRdx(29)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Acc(40)Acc(40)
30) --> Swift==> Run(30)
32) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(34)EndRdx(34)
35) --> Fiery Embrace==> Rechg(35)Rechg(40)
38) --> Rise of the Phoenix==> Heal(38)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

A few notes: Yes, I realize I took all four fitness powers. When I dinged 30 it was like 2 in the morning, and the thought of getting from mob to mob faster was appealing. I've still got the second respec saved, I'm considering taking hasten instead of swift mostly just to help consume and healing flames reload faster. Even with three recharge SOs in there, consume takes 90 seconds to charge up, which is pesky.
Also, Air Superiority is quite possibly my favorite power in the game. It helps with freaks, skyraiders, and goldbrickers, and being able to keep a boss on their butt the whole fight can be very handy, especially vs. carnies and the like.

Two accs in all attacks. Again, I made this guy to do damage. Misses are annoying.

He's not perfect, but he's fun, and he actually plays to the powerset's strengths, so I'm rather fond. I would have a bit tighter build, but I teamed with a fire/kin through most of my 30s, and I couldn't wait at all to make one myself, so I did that right after this guy hit 40, and he's proven far to fun. No time to go poke around the test server with the brute.

BlackSun17 · 02-24-2006 02:45 PM

Thanks for posting your info.

Do you see Incinerate in your post-respec build?

Go Team Venture!

PowerLeveler · 02-24-2006 10:44 PM

No on incinerate. Scorch, Air Superiority, cremate, and once in a while brawl give me a full attack chain. GFS and FCS give me the massive damage attacks, so I just don't need another attack. Plus, I really don't have the slots to spare.

Anyway, DoT attacks make it a little hard to keep track of who I need to hit with what attack next. It's pesky to fire off GFS then realize that in 5 seconds that guy would've been dead anyway from a DoT.

Fire_Storm · 03-14-2006 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mirror,

I like your points, esp. about playing to this AT's strengths.

I just hit 30 on my fire/fire brute yesterday, and added tough. It already seems to be making a difference, and it appears that my def. build is similar to yours.

Interested in seeing your build - would you be able to post it here?

[/ QUOTE ]

That just cracks me up. You added Tough and it seems to make a difference. Then you ask someone who doesn't have it in their build. Hellen, oh hellen keller where are you?

The more i read Mirror's post, the less I think about defending my guide. You really need to look at the previous stuff.Mirror's post is completely poorly laid out, and mixes and mashes things in such a way it is impossible to justify.

Here is an example:a ramble to anything about defense to guides. ???? guess what, babbage does psi damage. Done it repeatedly in CoH. Your Point? stone is the only thing with psi mitigation. Ramble, and the i made a offender once, it was kin, and energy. Oops, when CoV came out, i deleted it, it was a corruptor. No offense, you ramble and don't make solid reasoning. Want me to do his whole post this way? Oh, i know, let me explain about picking up powers in the 40s like GFS, so I can slot it. Oh, let me talk again, about slotting inth 40s and picking things up late, so you can max slot things n the 40s.on second thought, lets not.

And for those who think it is too hard to turn on all those toggles, i posted a macro in the tanker forums, that turns on 6 powers from pushing th same button 6 times. Wow that almost sounds like an Einstein thing when you listen to Mirror. All those toggles are nothing compared to a warshade (you change forms and a swap trays while attacking...so far the "double mire", to nova after eclipse and then some makes tankin and bruting look easy) But like a game of chess, there is skill in somethings. Killing fast is no challenge, making a Brute that uses fury is. Some chess players can checkmate you. Other use Brute force. My Brute guide is more like chess. If you want easy kills, pick something else. If you cann't write a macro or keybind, the maybe you should do "the math" and try something different. A gripe about the number of toggles should be some where else.

When i7 comes out, I will go thru with further on test server. Right now I am playing a WS (how funny I found Mephe's Warshade build on the forums) Yes Mephe who wrote the fire/fire tanke guide. Mine is there too. Needless to say, they are pretty similar.

after buffing dreck maps for 6 hours at a time with my Kin controller, I am much more interested in looking at the email by the fire fire tanker who has done dreck 500 times. He sent me his build. My 50 is a Kin troller. Buffed Dreck till i was blue in the face,

Too funny.

PowerLeveler · 03-16-2006 11:08 PM

To clarify, since you missed like...the ENTIRE point I was trying to make.

1. I posted the number for Combat Jumping to show that buffing Combat Jumping to take advantage of its defense buff is a fool's errand. The buff is simply too small, even with 3 SOs to make a notable difference, and those slots could be used better elsewhere. An even con minion in this game has a 50% chance-to-hit. Combat Jumping, three slotted, adds slightly less than 4% to your defense. The way defense works in this game, this means an even con minions will miss 8 attacks for every 100 that land. EIGHT. Out of ONE HUNDRED. That's not very good. Lieutenants, bosses, elite bosses and AVs have even higher chance to hit. The defense matters LESS.
2. I have absolutely no idea at all what you're talking about with regards to "a ramble to anything about defense to guides. ????"
3. If you really thought that firey aura was such a great defensive set, why did you make the same post in four different forums explaining why it's bad and needs work?
4. My talk about toggles wasn't about how hard it was to turn them on. I said "This, on top of a solid attack chain for fury fun, leaves you pretty much out of end." My point was endurance management. Which is what I SAID in the POST.
5. You're trying to build your brute to be a wall. That means no strategy. No having to consider mob size, which things have nasty secondary effects, adds, or anything. That's not chess. That's brute force. BY DEFINITION OF THE TERM. My brute requires aggro management and an awareness of the playing field. Yours requires nothing. Well, it actually requires a lot of things since /fire brutes don't have the defenses to handle that kind of damage intake. Like I pointed out above. With NUMBERS.
6. It's been said before, it'll be said again: If you build a brute like a tank, you're missing the point entirely.
7. There are no "40s" yet to take powers in. There won't even be anything higher than 40 on TEST for at the LEAST half a month, prolly closer to a full four weeks. I built this guy to be useful now, which is convienient because that's when I want to play him.

PS: Good luck doing a dreck mission with a brute. I'm sure that will be very helpful information.

BonSavant · 05-11-2006 06:13 PM

the_TT,

I don't mean you disrespect you with this post BUT I feel compelled to mention that it might be the worst FM/FA guide I've read. Ever.

The Mirror is quite correct in his points. A FM/FA Brute is NOT A TANK. In any way, shape or form. It IS a minion shredding, AoE damage dealing, kill them before they kill you AT. I think you're doing a disservice to new players who aren't fully aware of pitfalls/potention of a FM/FA build. Please consider fixing some of your "information" or remove this guide all together.

Having said that. Let me make quick mention of some of the issues I have with your guide.

1. Your build guide fails to incorporate Build Up and Firey Embrace. Brutes are about DAMAGE. Espically FM/FA's. Skimping on these two powers could GIMP a FM/FA build.

2. Slotting CJ and weave for defense is a waste of 5 slots that could go towards more useful powers with a FM/FA. I think the combined defense of those 2 powers fully slotted for defense is 5%. NOT WORTH IT!

3. Your belief that you "kill things too quickly" is an odd opinion to give for a damage centric AT like Brutes. Also, your understanding of Fury application is, in my opinion, badly flawed.

4. In your build, you take many essential powers either too late or not at all. Stating that this makes a highly effective build is just a lie.

Sorry if all this comes off as a bit harsh. Again, I applaude your attempt at a guide BUT please know what you're talking about before you actually post something like this that many new players might see.

Works Cited:

Convection: Level 50 FA/FM Tanker - Champion
Organicide: Level 40 DM/FA Brute - Champion
Pro-Payne: Level 12 FM/FA Brute - Champion

Player since 11/04.

polarpanda · 05-12-2006 10:29 AM

I don't know what I can say about the guide that won't come out sounding like a flame (I.e. differences in opinion as to efficiency/strategies, op's frequent use of 'veteran players' to justify controversial information), so I'll leave it at this:

Once you get your numbers and statistics straight (how fury and damage enhancers work, why brutes are not tanks, quoting brute powerset info and not tanks-- eg. you get G. Fire sword not at 38 but 32), revise your info as needed.

You're free to play your brute however you want to, but there are only so many ways to min/max a build. To maximize a brute, one emphasizes damage (while not ignoring defense, of course). To maximize the fire/fire sets, one emphasizes damage, since that is the secondary effect on the melee set, and what is prominent about the armor set.

Moreover, resistance is the key to fire armor's survival, not necessarily defense. As others have pointed out, weave/cj are insignificant sources for defense, and your endurance would be more efficiently used elsewhere.

Shadow_Poison · 06-04-2006 03:20 PM

No offense, but your build must SUCK.

A Brute is not a Tanker. Actually, they're more like Scrappers. But let's not compare AT's.

Brutes are all about damage. All about damage.

As soon as I saw that you had no damage SO's in your attacks, I just stopped. Seriously.

meaniebigjae · 06-15-2006 10:51 AM

You have your healing flames at 48% slotted with 3 so's? That percentage is way off! At lvl 25 and 3 white so's, I think I have like 780 hp and only heal for like 268 with healing flames. That is closer to 35%. This guide kind of reminds me on how I tried to build a tank into a damage dealer when I first started playing coh. I've found it better to play to an archetype's strengths. If you want to be a wall, build a tank. If you want to be a melee class who deals massive melee damage, be a scrapper, brute, or stalker.

Glassthegrey1980 · 08-14-2006 12:54 AM

This guide is absolute drek, /fire is not a defensive set at all, to make it a defensive set you're having to use all your end and alot of slot choices to make yourself survivable.

IMO Fire/Fire is a horrible combo unless you're on a team that can cover for the fact that all you are is a Fire Imp.