Electron Girl's guide to Kinetics scrappers.
By
Ang_Rui_Shen,
Posted on: 2006-01-27 08:50 in Player Guides
Interesting read. Thanks for putting this out.
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Just a quick suggestion. I have a feeling that /Sonic might be a better fit for this than /Dark.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Sonic would fit this type of character beautifully. Good call.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a sample Sonic version of the Kinetics Scrapper that I'll be running up during the upcoming Double Experience Weekend:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.153
http://www.onthejazz.co.uk/hu/mhd.php
Smash Traffic: Level 46 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Electricity Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Transfusion -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Heal(5), Heal(7), Heal(15), RechRdx(23)
Level 1: Shriek -- Acc(A)
Level 2: Siphon Power -- Acc(A), Acc(3), RechRdx(5), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(15)
Level 4: Howl -- Acc(A), Dmg(37), Dmg(37), Dmg(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Dmg(11), Dmg(17), Dmg(19), RechRdx(23)
Level 8: Siphon Speed -- Acc(A), Acc(9), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(11), RechRdx(13)
Level 10: Flurry -- Acc(A), Dmg(13), Dmg(17), Dmg(19), RechRdx(36)
Level 12: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(43)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Acrobatics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Shout -- Acc(A), Dmg(25), Dmg(25)
Level 26: Transference -- Acc(A), Acc(27), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(34), EndMod(40)
Level 28: Sirens Song -- Acc(A), Acc(29), Sleep(29), Sleep(31), Sleep(31), RechRdx(34)
Level 30: Speed Boost -- EndMod(A), EndMod(36)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc(A), Acc(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(34)
Level 35: Increase Density -- RechRdx(A), ResDam(36)
Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- Acc(A), Acc(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(40), RechRdx(40)
Level 41: Thunder Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(42), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- ResDam(A), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), EndRdx(45), EndRdx(46)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build.
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I am hoping this will get a response from the OP.
Been away for a bit and came back with Vet awards. Now that you can get permanent sands of mu, would this change your power choices or lotting in any way?
Or is the more attacks the better?
[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping this will get a response from the OP.
Been away for a bit and came back with Vet awards. Now that you can get permanent sands of mu, would this change your power choices or lotting in any way?
Or is the more attacks the better?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, sands of mu ignored damage buffs, so it would be pretty underwhelming for a kinetic after fulcrum shift.
Luminara,
Have you tried this build with Total Focus instead of Thunderstrike? More mezzing and it doesn't have that "my big punch knocks every back" effect of Thunderstrike.
I have a kin/dark at 50 and am thinking about re-visiting him with a build kind of like this. Thanks for a nice write up on a different idea.
What I really wish for is a defense-based armor for Defenders to help with mezzing. Controllers get ice & earth (and they get a direct mez-shield too). I don't see why defenders can't get a defense armor. It seems like it would go great with this build, especially with the -acc from dark. I bet getting mezzed is the single most annoying thing with this kind of build.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
[ QUOTE ]
I am hoping this will get a response from the OP.
Been away for a bit and came back with Vet awards. Now that you can get permanent sands of mu, would this change your power choices or lotting in any way?
Or is the more attacks the better?
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my word, I can't believe this guide is still alive. Electron Girl is, but I'm constantly surprised there are other people of questionable sanity who want to try playing a Kinetics scrapper. 
To answer the question, I lean toward keeping the basics of the build, the pool attacks in particular, right where they are. Sands of Mu is a huge improvement on Flurry, but the recharge, even with stacked Siphon Speeds, is still longer than you're going to be able to fill unless you just spam buffs/debuffs. And as I've said many times, with the defender melee damage modifier being so low (0.55), you feel every second that you're not dealing damage.
There's also the issue of accuracy, which you don't have on Sands unless you're running Tactics, eating inspirations constantly or relying heavily on IO set bonuses. With Flurry, you know you're going to be landing those punches more reliably, which gives it an advantage over Sands.
I think IO sets will make more of a difference, but I haven't finished working out a theoretical build that I'm satisfied with yet, so I can't make recommendations at this time. Once I've figured out what bonuses are going to give the most benefit, I'll set aside some time for an update.
For now, "the more attacks the better" is as good as anything to go with. You lose nothing by staying with the basic build outline and simply adding the veteran reward attacks to your chain.
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Luminara,
Have you tried this build with Total Focus instead of Thunderstrike? More mezzing and it doesn't have that "my big punch knocks every back" effect of Thunderstrike.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would consider it for a respec build, but not for a leveling build. Thunderstrike is the heavy hitter of choice simply because it's available at 41 and really, REALLY makes that last 9 levels so much more enjoyable. Waiting until 47, and not being able to fully slot until level 50, would take a lot of the fun out of a build like this. You deal with power pool melee attack damage output for 41 levels, then you get Thunderstrike and you really, finally feel like it was all worth it. You just won't get the same feeling of accomplishment, heck, JOY from waiting until level 50 to get that one big attack.
Respec build, though, it's entirely up to you. I don't think I'd do it, simply because I prefer the options in Electricity Mastery, but your build is all yours. If TF is where your heart lies, run with it.
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What I really wish for is a defense-based armor for Defenders to help with mezzing. Controllers get ice & earth (and they get a direct mez-shield too). I don't see why defenders can't get a defense armor. It seems like it would go great with this build, especially with the -acc from dark. I bet getting mezzed is the single most annoying thing with this kind of build.
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You have no idea how much it frustrated me. I typically wouldn't be in much danger of dying, because of the combination of debuffs from FS and Siphon Power, Charged Armor when that became available and the relatively short durations that allowed me to fire off a Transfusion, but having to CONSTANTLY turn my toggles back on nearly drove me mad in the mid-40s. It was the biggest downside to playing this character. It wasn't dangerous, just insanely annoying.
Some of the IOs and sets have the potential to help, though. I'm definitely looking at the -KB IOs, which would let me drop Acrobatics. That's one less toggle draining endurance and having to be turned back on later, and holds really aren't the most common mez that you face in the later part of the game, it's stuns. It might also be possible to build up enough +defense between IOs and some pool powers, like Combat Jumping, to cut much of the mez problem out. I'm still working on figuring out the best balance of set bonuses, so I can't say what's going to work well yet.
Hi, i'm quite impressed about this defender,it inspired me this template based on disorient effect, any opinion?
---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Soteira
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1)Acc(3)Heal(7)Heal(11)Heal(15)
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(1)Acc(3)Dmg(17)Dmg(17)
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(2)Acc(5)Rechg(25)
04) --> Gloom==> Acc(4)Acc(5)Dmg(19)Dmg(21)Dmg(46)
06) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(6)Acc(7)Rechg(21)
08) --> Hasten==> Rechg(8)Rechg(9)Rechg(9)
10) --> Dark Pit==> Acc(10)Acc(11)DisDur(31)DisDur(31)
12) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(12)EndMod(13)EndMod(13)
14) --> Flurry==> Acc(14)Acc(15)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(46)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(18)Jump(19)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --> Assault==> EndRdx(24)EndRdx(25)
26) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(26)EndRdx(27)TH_Buf(27)TH_Buf(29)TH_Buf(43)
28) --> Tenebrous Tentacles==> Acc(28)Acc(29)Dmg(34)Dmg(34)
30) --> Night Fall==> Acc(30)Acc(31)Dmg(34)Dmg(36)Dmg(46)
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Rechg(36)Rechg(37)Rechg(39)
35) --> Transference==> Acc(35)Acc(36)EndMod(37)EndMod(37)EndMod(39)
38) --> Blackstar==> Acc(38)Acc(39)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)Dmg(40)
41) --> Life Drain==> Acc(41)Acc(42)Dmg(42)Dmg(42)Heal(43)Heal(43)
44) --> Oppressive Gloom==> Acc(44)Acc(45)DisDur(45)DisDur(45)
47) --> Dark Embrace==> EndRdx(47)DmgRes(48)DmgRes(48)DmgRes(48)
49) --> Soul Drain==> Acc(49)Acc(50)Dmg(50)Dmg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------
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Hi, i'm quite impressed about this defender,it inspired me this template based on disorient effect, any opinion?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Dark Mastery APP will give you the stacking stuns, but you'll lose out on the final high damage melee attack in the end, and by the time you get to 41, you're really going to wish you had it if you're playing in full scrapper mode.
If you're comfortable with IOs, the following build will give you perma-Hasten (with 1 Siphon Speed active) and Dark Pit on a 20 second recharge and 20 second duration (so all minions in a fight will be taken out of the picture). Ranged attacks are slotted purely for the +recharge bonuses and not meant to be used (or used only when no other options are available).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.20
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
EG Dark Blast: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Kinetics
Secondary Power Set: Dark Blast
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Electricity Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Siphon Power -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(3), RechRdx-I:35(5), RechRdx-I:35(17)
Level 1: Dark Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:35(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:35(17), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:35(31), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:35(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:35(48)
Level 2: Transfusion -- Acc-I:35(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:35(3), Dct'dW-Heal:35(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:35(29), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:35(31), Dct'dW-Rchg:35(31)
Level 4: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:35(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:35(39), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:35(40), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:35(40)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:35(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:35(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:35(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:35(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(39)
Level 8: Flurry -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:35(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:35(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:35(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:35(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(39)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow:35(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:35(11), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow:35(11), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow:35(34), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:35(34)
Level 12: Dark Pit -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg:40(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun:40(13), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx:40(13), Stpfy-Stun/Rng:40(15), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg:40(15)
Level 14: Swift -- Run-I:35(A), Run-I:35(50)
Level 16: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:35(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(29), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:35(43)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:35(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:35(19), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:35(19), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:35(21), RedFtn-Def:35(25), RedFtn-EndRdx:35(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:35(A), EndMod-I:35(21), EndMod-I:35(46)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:45(A), RechRdx-I:45(23), RechRdx-I:45(23), RechRdx-I:45(48), RechRdx-I:45(50), RechRdx-I:45(50)
Level 24: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I:35(A)
Level 26: Transference -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(27), RechRdx-I:35(27)
Level 28: Increase Density -- ResDam-I:35(A)
Level 30: Inertial Reduction -- EndRdx-I:35(A)
Level 32: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I:35(A), Acc-I:35(33), RechRdx-I:35(33), RechRdx-I:35(33)
Level 35: Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:35(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:35(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:35(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:35(36), Posi-Dam%:35(37)
Level 38: Hurdle -- Jump-I:35(A)
Level 41: Thunder Strike -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:45(A), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:45(42), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:45(42), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:45(42), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:40(43), Sciroc-Dam%:30(43)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx:30(45), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg:30(45), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg:30(45), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(46), ImpSkn-Status:30(46)
Level 47: Power Sink -- RechRdx-I:35(A), RechRdx-I:35(48)
Level 49: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:35(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+2% DamageBuff[*]+5.4% Max Endurance[*]+32% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]+68.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+1.5% Enhancement(Slow)[*]+3% Enhancement(Stun)[*]+94.9 (7.88%) HitPoints[*]+Knockback (Mag -4)[*]+MezResist(Confused) (Mag 30%)[*]+MezResist(Held) (Mag 30%)[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 42.1%)[*]+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 32.2%)[*]+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 30%)[*]+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 32.2%)[*]+6.5% Recovery[*]+10% Regeneration[*]+4.1% Resistance(Fire)[*]+4.1% Resistance(Cold)[*]+3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]+2% Debt Protection[/list]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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</pre><hr />
If you'd prefer to stick with SOs or standard IOs, I'd recommend moving slots out of the ranged attacks, 6-slotting Dark Pit so you can have it up more frequently and the stun lasting as long as possible, and seriously consider replacing Dark Mastery with Elec or Power for Thunder Strike or Total Focus. Again, after working all the way up to the 40+ range with only pool melee attacks (and Sands of Mu if you have that veteran reward), the feeling of having a "real" melee attack in those last few levels is very rewarding.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi, i'm quite impressed about this defender,it inspired me this template based on disorient effect, any opinion?
[/ QUOTE ]
The Dark Mastery APP will give you the stacking stuns, but you'll lose out on the final high damage melee attack in the end, and by the time you get to 41, you're really going to wish you had it if you're playing in full scrapper mode.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you are right, i want to mitigate the scrapper concept with some more control given by the stacking Disorient, plus, i am fashinated by the damage output of Siphon Power+Fulcrum Shift+Soul Drain+Blackstar...
Do you think the stacking Disorient realy could work efficently?
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Hi, i'm quite impressed about this defender,it inspired me this template based on disorient effect, any opinion?
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The Dark Mastery APP will give you the stacking stuns, but you'll lose out on the final high damage melee attack in the end, and by the time you get to 41, you're really going to wish you had it if you're playing in full scrapper mode.
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Yes you are right, i want to mitigate the scrapper concept with some more control given by the stacking Disorient, plus, i am fashinated by the damage output of Siphon Power+Fulcrum Shift+Soul Drain+Blackstar...
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Fulcrum Shift alone will cap your damage in a spawn of 6 or more mobs, presuming you're in melee range when you use it, and that you have 3 Damage SOs or level 30+ IOs in Blackstar.
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Do you think the stacking Disorient realy could work efficently?
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Sure, it can. Dark Pit and Oppressive Gloom are both mag 2, so they'll stack to stun entire spawns, including bosses. Not many */Dark defenders pick up Dark Pit because of the recharge to duration ratio, but it's certainly a workable build. If you get the recharge time low enough and the duration high enough, you'll have enough control to keep most spawns completely disabled with stacked stuns.
That said, this is really much more of a classic defender question/ You might consider posting the build in the defender forum and soliciting advice from other experienced Kin/* and */Dark defenders, who could help you fine tune the build more than I could (i really don't play any of my defenders as defenders, so to speak. my Kin/Elec is a scrapper, my TA/A is an offender, and my Dark/Dark is a "dark blaster with some control").
What would be the plus and minuses of going Kin/Dark vs Kin/Sonic?
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What would be the plus and minuses of going Kin/Dark vs Kin/Sonic?
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Mostly the control. Sonic's control is on a shorter recharge, longer duration and can affect lieutenants, but it's also a Sleep, so anything that is affected will break out when taking any damage. Dark Pit affects only minions, has a long recharge and short duration, but doesn't break on damage and is available sooner. As a Kinetics scrapper, you're not going to be using the blasts or other abilities much, so all that really matters is the control.
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Wouldn't this be awesome, and possibly even more efficient as a Corrupter? I'm making two alts right now! 
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Wouldn't this be awesome, and possibly even more efficient as a Corrupter?
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No, because they don't get the final high damage melee attack.
I did start a Dark/Kin after CoV was released (Electron Girl was created, played and leveled to 50 after ED and before CoV), and Scourge was certainly a nice bonus, but I deleted the character after I saw the PPPs.
Why are your attacks slotted so late in the game? It must be hell trying to solo like that!
I've been following this guide for some time.
Like you I enjoy mixing things up a bit. So far the limit of that has been basking in my own bemusement when my Sonic / Nrg blapper runs in to melee range and bad guys start flying out of melee range at high speed.
Choruses of "are you a noob?", "blasters should be in the back!" resound and are music to my ears. As are the conversations I have with those players who "get it".
So this looks like a fun diversion.
I'd likely be more inclined to go with the Dark Epic but if I get this off the ground I'll certainly keep your words in mind as they represent more experience than do mine.
I have a 50 DDDD and I miss having that "whammo" damage but I just love how the pieces mesh together. And this char will have less damage avail than my middle build offender/defender DDDD who has most of his blasts.
I'll likely have a clearer course for Elec v Dark Epic if I get the char to 41.
Thanks for your work on this thread.
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Interesting read. Thanks for putting this out.
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same, thanks. toying with the idea of trying this, a friend mentioned it to me so I had to come find the thread!
Liberty:
proud member of the LEGION, SISTERHOOD
@Doctor Photon
I might make a kin/sonic/dark now that i13 is out to do this with.
A lot has changed since this guide was written.
Sands of Mu is now a permanant temp power (oxymoron anyone?) As is the Nem staff.
I'm going with the Dark APP for Soul Drain. If I'm not at damage cap after FS it will get me the rest of the way there. and if I slot for damage it would make a nice AoE that serves 3 purposes: Damage, Debuff, and damage buff. Oppressive Gloom will be invaluable in a melee oriented kin build. Dark Embrace is a no-brainer and I forget what the 4th power in the set is.
Also, Dreadful Wail is a PBAoE nuke that goes off instantly, no "charging" animation beforehand.
I so wish now that I hadn't deleted my kin/sonic at level 26. I regreted it almost as soon as I did it, mostly because someone came along and took my name.
Edit for LOL moment: I went to dictionary.com to look up names relating to the speed of sound and the word of the day was "kinetic"
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I have a question for anyone who has tested this... what does more DPS:
1) Flurry + AS
2) Boxing + Kick + AS
??
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I haven't tested it, but I did look over the numbers a while back, and Boxing + Kick + AS comes out slightly ahead.
Boxing/AS/Boxing/Kick = 9.33 BI over 5.5 seconds, 1.7 DPS
AS/Flurry = 5.95 BI over 4.6 seconds, 1.3 DPS
Kick, however, like Flurry, drops total DPS because of the animation time. Something that's frustrated me to no end because I wanted to use it for my brute. -_-