Electron Girl's guide to Kinetics scrappers.

So... are you ready to break all of the rules and shatter the boundaries between ATs? Fed up with being a buffbot? Looking for something a little more exciting than throwing one blast after another? Longing to play a brute but don't have a copy of CoV, or haven't had the urge to play it yet?

Welcome, then, to the life of a Kinetics scrapper. From here on out, the path you travel will be frantic, frenetic, and frighteningly enjoyable.

Before I go any further, I will warn you, this is not a character for someone who wants to be "uber". You will not be making scrappers wet the bed, tankers cry themselves to sleep, or teams wishing you would just stop for a minute to let them kill ONE thing. A Kinetics scrapper is not a tank-mage. What it is, though, is a fun and exciting change from the standard AT definitions. It is a challenge, one that you may not find to be enjoyable. And it is, at times, dreadfully tedious. But if you're interested in playing something a little different and dedicated to the concept, it is quite rewarding.

Why a Kinetics defender played as a scrapper, instead of simply making a scrapper? For the challenge, first and foremost. There's an element of risk that goes deeper than what true scrappers face, but it's also a matter of throwing away the conventional views of AT definitions and moving beyond. It's also a variety of scrapper that takes a bit from several different sets and blends it all together, giving you damage resistance, healing, and defense all in the one package.

Why Kinetics? Kinetics is, by design, a melee-oriented set. The heal is targetted and fires off at melee range of the target. The same is true of the endurance recovery power. The crowning power, Fulcrum Shift, gives its greatest benefit at melee range. Melee is Kinetics' niche, where it shines the brightest, and is the foundation for this build. Kinetics is what allows a defender to become a scrapper, something that no other primary can achieve.

How does this compare with a "real" scrapper? In some ways, it doesn't and never will. When you're on a team, your scrapping teammates are generally going to be receiving the same buffs that you will be using for yourself, benefiting from the same heals that you'll be using to save your skin, etc., and as such, you will ALWAYS be second fiddle to the true scrapper in a team. Solo, however, a Kinetics scrapper can come very close to achieving the same general efficiency as a true scrapper, and as such, does very well in either type of situation.

What are the caveats? First and foremost, your damage output prior to the mid-30s will be rather unimpressive. That's not to say that it's not worth the effort, simply that it will require dedication to get to a point at which you finally feel like you've "made it". Second, the damage resistance is simulated, meaning, it's not true damage resistance even though it works in the same manner. You're decreasing enemy damage, not increasing your resistance, so every time you step into the ring with your enemies, their opening strikes will be at full strength, even if you're fully buffed for damage from the previous spawn. And third, it can feel slow to some people. You have to spend a lot of time buffing and healing to get to a point of laying waste to those before you, and some people will not have the patience to do this. AND... any melee attacks you get before the 40s are entirely smashing damage, which can be very annoying when you encounter enemies with resistance to smashing.

That said, under the right conditions and with the right combination of powers, you can become a veritable monster of melee. Your damage buff/debuff powers will serve to improve your survivability while also turning your fists into those deadly weapons you're hoping they can be. Your heal will be very good, very fast, and very close to allowing you to put Regen to shame. Under the right conditions, and with patience.

Having achieved level 50 with a Kinetic/Electrical Blast scrapper, 41+ of which was almost entirely solo, I've learned a few things along the way that will help all of you with dreams of becoming the scrappers that other scrappers look upon with surprise and a bit of respect.

The first and most important thing to know is that Electrical Blast is NOT the best secondary for a Kinetics scrapper. If I were to start anew with Electron Girl, my choice for the secondary would be Dark Blast.

Strange selection? Actually, no. The original reasoning for opting into Electrical Blast was Tesla Cage and Voltaic Sentinal. This turned out to be a mistake, one that I attempted to rectify through numerous respecs and changing the focus of Electron Girl's defensive abilities and attacks, but in the end, the conclusion that Dark Blast would've been the proper choice was the only answer that remained.

Why Dark Blast? Simply put, stuns. The absolute living horror of your existance as a Kinetics scrapper is being stunned over and over again. Even if you manage to avoid being perma-stunned (it has not been removed from the game, simply toned down on most, not all, enemies), the continual detoggling will drive you utterly mad. Nothing in the Electrical Blast set, or Kinetics, or any of the pools, gives any reasonable and practical protection from stuns. Dark Blast, however, has a single power to offer that can turn the game around for the Kinetics Scrapper... Dark Pit. Yes, Dark Pit, the AoE stun. With one power, you turn your greatest weakness into your most effective and worthwhile defense. Since you have no status protection, you have to do unto the enemy before he does unto you, and since, in nearly all cases, he has no status protection (note: this is NOT true of PvP, do NOT go into a PvP zone with this kind of build and expect to "pwnz0r nubs")...

Dark Blast also offers a few other powers of utility to the Kinetics scrapper. Tenebrous Tentacles can be used in concert with Dark Pit to both prevent the enemies from wandering away, as they typically do when stunned, and soften up the spawn for later destruction. Life Drain, while rather weak in both damage and healing, makes a nice compliment to your regular attacks (especially when you factor in that it is not smashing damage) as well as supplimenting Transfusion. Torrent is another very utilitarian power, giving you both a small bonus to your defense (via the accuracy debuff) and knockback that you can use to get something off of you, chain knockdowns, or move enemies to your preferred fighting location (such as a wall or corner). With practically all of Dark Blast's powers having an accuracy debuff as a secondary effect, there's really not much that won't be of some use in this set.

But, wait, Dark Pit is only a Mag 1 stun, it doesn't affect lieutanants or bosses! This is true, but it still removes any and all minions it hits from the battle, allowing you to focus your attention on the lieutenants and/or bosses, and if some or most of the enemies aren't hitting you, you have more time and flexibility in taking care of the ones that are. Additionally, the stun in Dark Pit stacks with any other stun, and as you'll see later, you'll have enough stuns to take even bosses out of the fight.

Lastly, you will rely heavily on pool powers to make this build work like a proper scrapper. Scrappers use one or two ranged attacks, but they do their work in melee, and you will, too. Air Superiority is required, and you'll need at least one other melee attack, Flurry being the recommended choice. That's two of your pool selections done, leaving you with only two remaining. The Leaping pool is highly recommended, unless you enjoy being knocked flat on your back on a regular basis and/or immobilized/held at other times. Your fourth pool is up to you, and some, such as Fighting or Medicine may fit your style of play better, but I recommend the Fitness pool. Despite having the option to do without Stamina, due to getting Transferance at level 26, you will most likely be running 2 or more toggles at almost all times, as well as using most of your buffs in an almost continuous sequence, will be a very heavy drain on your endurance. Stamina will allow you to spend at least a little less time "working" and a little more time "playing". We'll cover the other options in the pools you'll be taking later in the guide.

Hang on a second... Flurry? Yes, Flurry. When you finally get SOs and have grown accustomed to stacking Siphon Speed on yourself, you'll find that Flurry's animation time perfectly compliments Air Superiority's recharge time with a single recharge SO. Flurry also has the highest damage index in the pools (3.18 versus Boxing's 2.1111 and Kick's 2.3333 or Jump Kick's 2.778), as well as DoT. Though much maligned, DoT can be a significant help when facing enemies such as Life Mages or Crey who rez or heal, who will often attempt to activate an interruptable power in the middle of your attack. The DoT will prevent that power from successfully going off. Flurry's small chance to stun also stacks with the stun from Dark Pit, allowing you to affect lieutenants. If you absolutely can't stand to be rooted in one spot for the few seconds it takes for Flurry's animation to complete, though, feel free to work in Boxing or Kick, or both, as replacements.

Jump Kick, however, is NOT recommended under any circumstances. The knock* bug and longer-than-Flurry animation make it extremely dangerous to use and barely worth the endurance cost due to the comparatively low damage.

So let's get on with the build, shall we? This outline will be from the perspective of taking the Fitness and Speed pools. Other options will be covered afterward.

The basic outline will be to take and slot your primaries, but focus on the powers that will buff you or debuff enemies, and leave the team buffs for later. Transfusion, Siphon Power, and Siphon Speed are essential, take them and slot them heavily as early as possible to prepare for DOs and SOs (strongest emphasis on Siphon Speed for stacking recharge, which will make ALL of your powers available more often). Air Superiority and Flurry are your primary attacks, take them and slowly slot them (Siphon Power will allow you to go without heavy slotting for a while).

You want to get most of your basics in by level 22, so you'll be working in Combat Jumping (immob protection), Swift (combat maneuverability), Health (improved recovery), Stamina (toggle and buff chain mitigation), Super Jump (to build up to Acrobatics), and Acrobatics. This will give you a solid foundation to build upon for the later levels.

After level 22, the remaining powers can be taken in whatever order you're most comfortable with, but getting Dark Pit before the 30s is very strongly recommended (when you'll start to face off against enemies with lots of stunning attacks, such as Crey). Dark Pit is your strongest defense, get it and slot it fully and use it as your alpha in every encounter. If you have Stamina, you may find Transferance to be optional, but it can definitely save you a great deal of hassle, and it's very handy on teams. Fulcrum Shift should be taken IMMEDIATELY and slotted as soon as you hit 33 and 34.

If you stick with your Kinetics scrapper long enough to hit the 40s, the payoff is huge. The Electric Mastery APP is THE APP for you. You get a very good attack available at level 41, Thunder Strike, which has a stun component that also stacks with that of Dark Pit and/or Flurry, finally allowing you to really lock down bosses alone, and Charged Armor is absolutely wonderful. The other two powers, Electric Fence and Power Sink, are nice extras, but not vital (unless you skipped Transferance, in which case, Power Sink is a very good choice). Other APP options would be Dark Mastery, for Oppressive Gloom, or Power Mastery for Total Focus. However, I would point out that this type of scrapper falls short without a "big" attack, which is lacking in Dark Mastery and unavailable until level 47 in Power Mastery. Oppressive Gloom will definitely enhance your defensive capabilities to an impressive level, but it will require much more work in the long run, since you'll be limited to the few pool attacks and a blast to deal damage with. Total Focus is slightly more deadly than Thunder Strike, but this attack is much better suited to a respec build due to the extremely late portion of the game when it becomes available. By the time you have Total Focus slotted and fully usable, you're basically finished. Recommended APP, therefore, is Electric Mastery, for Thunder Strike, your final and best scrapper attack.

Also, you get two VERY NICE temporary powers that will significantly help later in the game. Iron Blade, from one of the Croatoa arcs, is a wonderful attack that you can keep for 3 days. With Siphon Power and Siphon Speed, it can turn you from an average scrapper into a death machine of the most amazing kind. Similarly, the Sands of Mu, also available for 3 days, will leave your jaw on the floor when you one-shot two or three minions at once with it (after buffing up with Siphon Power). Space these two powers out, don't take them both at once, so you'll have 6 seperate days of glorious scraptasticism. Plan on soloing while you have these powers so you can get the full benefit out of them (you'll find that you generally won't have time to use them while teaming, and you WILL miss them when they're gone. take the time to enjoy them). The Nemesis Staff is a great third temp power, and works very well when you're buffed, but since your focus is on scrapping, I'm putting less emphasis on this one.

Here is one proposed build that takes it up to level 44. The final powers are left to up to you to pick, as you'll have a better idea of what you need or want at that point.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name:
Level: 47
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Dark Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1)Acc(3)Heal(5)Heal(7)Heal(15)Rechg(23)
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(1)
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(2)Acc(3)Rechg(5)Rechg(7)Rechg(15)
04) --> Gloom==> Acc(4)Dmg(36)Dmg(36)Dmg(37)Rechg(37)
06) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(6)Dmg(11)Dmg(17)Dmg(19)Rechg(23)
08) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(8)Acc(9)Rechg(9)Rechg(11)Rechg(13)
10) --> Flurry==> Acc(10)Dmg(13)Dmg(17)Dmg(19)Rechg(39)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)Run(40)Run(46)
14) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(14)Rechg(42)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)Heal(40)Heal(46)
18) --> Super Jump==> Jump(18)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(22)EndRdx(37)
24) --> Dark Pit==> Acc(24)Acc(25)DisDur(25)DisDur(29)DisDur(31)Rechg(31)
26) --> Transference==> Acc(26)Acc(27)Rechg(27)Rechg(29)Rechg(31)
28) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(28)EndMod(34)
30) --> Increase Density==> Rechg(30)DmgRes(34)
32) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(32)Acc(33)Rechg(33)Rechg(33)Rechg(34)
35) --> Tenebrous Tentacles==> Acc(35)Acc(36)TH_DeBuf(39)
38) --> Torrent==> Acc(38)Acc(39)TH_DeBuf(40)
41) --> Thunder Strike==> Acc(41)Acc(42)Rechg(42)Rechg(43)Rechg(43)EndRdx(43)
44) --> Charged Armor==> DmgRes(44)DmgRes(45)DmgRes(45)EndRdx(45)EndRdx(46)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------


A few explanations of slotting choices -

<ul type="square">[*]Dark Pit: Short duration, long recharge. Three disorient SOs will increase the duration to 20 seconds, which should be more than enough time for you to sufficiently debuff everything enough to ignore them when the stun wears off. Tossing Tenebrous Tentacles on after this will allow you to lock everything in place, and thus avoid them coming to you with their own melee stuns, and if used just before Dark Pit wears off, may be enough to immobilize them long enough to get a second Dark Pit off if necessary. Again, though, 20 seconds should be plenty of time for you to get your debuffs/buffs going and start working on the task of defeating them, in relative safety.
[*]2 Accuracy in Primaries/Critical Powers: Missing when you're on a team is usually not much of a problem. Missing when you're solo and facing a horde of angry foes tends to be bad. 2 accuracy SOs in Transfusion, Siphon Power, Siphon Speed, Transfusion, Fulcrum Shift, Dark Pit, and Thunder Strike (missing with your best attack is just painful). Tenebrous Tentacles and Torrent slotting is optional, but you have the slots to spare by then and they're powers you really want to hit as many enemies with as possible.
[*]Slotting Swift and Health: You'll find that combat maneuverability and speed will be helpful, and running one more toggle (Sprint) can seriously task your endurance bar at times. Health's recovery buff acts in concert with your heal(s) to give you improved survivability, so it's also worth slotting. These, like Tenebrous Tentacles and Torrent, are optional, but reasonable places to put the slots when available.
[*]Slotting Gloom: Even true scrappers get options for ranged attacks, and yours is worth slotting and using. It also helps fill out your attack chain for those rare moments when you have nothing else to throw at an enemy, as well as give you something other than smashing damage to work with.
[*]Speed Boost and Increase Density: Sooner or later, you'll end up on teams, either out of boredom or necessity. Teams like SB. Teams like ID when they can find a kin to use it. Swap in IR for ID, if you like, or take IR as one of your final selections, it's another power that people appreciate and will make you popular at parties (or Hami raids). One additional slot in each, which gives you two endmod SOs in SB for teams with almost unlimited endurance, and fast recharge and a fair resistance buff in ID, are nice extras to put in when you have the available slots.
[*]No damage in Thunder Strike: The biggest problem that you face isn't low hit points, or lack of defenses, it's poor damage. Slotting TS for damage would make it more powerful, but so will FS and Siphon Power. Slot it for recharge so you can use it frequently and rely on your buffs to make up for the missing damage SOs.
[*]Heavy reliance on recharge SOs: This build is all about speed. Speed lets you stack more buffs, heal faster, attack more often, etc. Speed, speed, speed. If you think Hasten would serve you better, by all means, work it in, but slotting heavily for recharge and stacking Siphon Speed buffs on top has proven to be very sufficient. As it is, without Hasten, there's almost no time after level 32 when you DON'T have something useful and desirable recharged and ready to use. Hasten would have some of your powers with the longest recharge times available a bit sooner, but there's only so much time you can spend buffing. Buff, fight, be happy.
[*]Damage Mitigation: Regardless of how well you build, you're still going to be taking damage at some point. Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift will reduce that significantly, as will your APP resistance power, and Transfusion should be capable of healing whatever damage you can't avoid or decrease, but if you find yourself in need of something more, Repel may suit your need, provided you have a solid vertical surface to push your enemies up against. Having tested Repel, and Whirlwind, I found them to be counter to the basic nature of scrapping, as well as costly from an endurance standpoint, but they do serve their purposes, damage mitigation, well enough, so if you need one, Repel would be the recommended selection.[/list]
Other pool selections: <ul type="square">[*]Flurry could reasonably be replaced with Boxing/Kick from the fighting pool, which would give you more attacks, albeit at lower damage, but you may be able to make up for the lower damage with a higher attack rate. This also open up Tough. The resistance is minimal, but it may be useful at the lower levels. Be prepared to pay the toggle cost, though. Weave is not on the list of recommended powers, due to the fact that it is, in reality, Combat Jumping sans jump buff plus significantly higher endurance cost. Do not waste a power selection on Weave.
[*]Fitness pool may be discarded with a respec, or you can work up to 26 without it, but toggles and chains of buffs aren't endurance-free, so be prepared to deal with that.
[*]You may find that, if you're skilled enough, you have no need for Combat Jumping or Acrobatics. If you consistantly get your alphas fired off and the enemies debuffed sufficiently, feel free to leave the Leaping pool out of your build. I personally found knockback to be far, far too irritating and dangerous (every second you're lying on your back is a second you're not defeating something that's attacking you, or reducing/healing incoming damage) to skip Acrobatics.
[*]If you do have a remaining pool selection available, one option could be to take Medicine. Stimulant is a suitable replacement for Increase Density, and will open up Aid Self and, if you want a rez, Resuscitate. While I personally feel that Transfusion does the job of healing well enough, Aid Self is certainly a reasonable choice if you wish to play a Regen-style scrapper. Slotting for Aid Self in this case should include a minimum of 2 interrupt reduction enhancements, as you will likely be in combat in most situations when a need for it would arise.
[*]The Presence pool could, possibly, be used to suppliment Dark Pit for soft control. The recharge times on Intimidate and Invoke Panic, as well as the endurance costs, are very prohibitive, and both powers require heavy slotting to be efficient. With enough slots, though, either or both can fill out the time when Dark Pit has not yet recharged and the stun has worn off.
[*]Since you're already invested in the Flight pool, Hover and Fly are both options if you have a free power selection and want another method of travel. Siphon Speed does improve the speed of both, and Inertial Reduction causes Fly to behave like max-speed Hover.[/list]

Nifty.

I know I've always envied those Tsoo with Katana/Kinetics. That combo looks like fun.

In CoV they came up with a Blast/Support in the corruptor, and some melee/control with the Dominator, but no Melee/Support.

I'd love a melee Defender secondary....

Minor correction, Dark Pit appears to be Mag 2. I've been told that Mag 1 doesn't stun anything, but regardless of the mag, the guide itself doesn't change because it still does what it's intended to for this build, stun minions.

Yes I can now know what my amazing Defender Kin/Dark finallly slots! I may bend the pool powers cause of play style but so far I am slotted right Thank You Thank You Sooooooo Much!

I decided to create an alt to try this build.

So far I really enjoy it. Good ideas.

As a lover of kinetics, I am now drooling over this concept. Ready to try it. Curious..... are you a Healer?LOL

This is a very cool Idea. I actually have seen a ill/kin troller who went this way kinda but relied on pets as semi defense (pets hold argo you kill). I really think this is a great idea but I have a few questions about slotting/power choices

Now I know very little about dark blast so I’m not going to mention that at all.

Slotting:

Combat Jumping with a recharge? I didn’t even know this was possible. I though combat jumping was one of the only toggles which has 0 recharge… The buff to defense is minimal but that’s the usual base slotting.

Acrobatics: With stamina and transference I have never found that acrobatics was endurance heavy.

Speed Boost: Meh I would three slot but if your really tight on slots I can see not doing this *cough* combat jumping *cough*

Increase Density: Again recharge time? What is it like 1 sec? I have never seen anyone but recharge reduction in this power…

With the new endurance drain nerfs this may not be possible but if you are going for electric Ancillary you can grab power sink, and slot both transference and powersink with endmods. This way you can use these powers as soft holds. Drain someones end down to zero and they can't attack.


Power Choices:
*note: these are post 50 comments I have always believed that you should break down your builds into lv1-30ish and lv 30-50 (or lv 30-41, and lv41-50)builds.

Hasten: IMHO every kinetic needs hasten. Stacking siphon speed with hasten cuts your recharge way down (.6+.7). Since you already recommend going with speed power pool you could cut out ID and pick up hasten instead. This is more game play style.

Fitness: You don’t really need swift, if your landing siphon speeds and stacking them then swift is pretty much wasted. You already have access unsuppressed super speed and super jump these should be enough for combat mobility. Combat jumping stacks nicely with hurdle.

You may not need fitness altogether if you have two end draining abilities. This is personal play style but I enjoy (on my ice/kin) presences power pools PBAoE fear as a fulcrum afterthought. This could be used after dark pit wears off if you need it.

Siphon Power: Great power early on but you can drop it in later levels if you build gets tight. With hasten and siphons speeds fulcrum will be ready about ever 15 seconds.

Just one mans opinion

Good God, man - where do I start?

First off, you are relying on Dark Pit? WOW. Have you used this lemon? Unless you enjoy fighting -2 to -3 level mobs, don't bank on it AT ALL. It sucks beyond words.

Second, you want MELEE attack? OK, but Flurry is going to root you to the spot for 2-3 seconds, hit or miss. No thanks. Being a Kinetics means being MOBILE. In and Out.

I have a Dark / Kinetics Corrupter, and found it's better to be a blaster than a scrapper. Combine Tentacles with Night Fall and enjoy the numbers. Plus, you throw in a accuracy debuff or two in them (I have 3 in tentacles, in lieu of damages) and you instantly have some of the best defense in the game from the effected mobs.

For the hero side, I have many Kinetics; my favorite right now is Kin/Rad. Radiation Blast is awesome with Kinetics, in that HITTING is *vital* to kinetics (as you've explained with the 2 acc in each power thing); AoE's are your friend. Irradiate + Cosmic burst is simply sick.

Siphon Speed &amp; Siphon Power (do NOT get rid of these ever) then run in, FS, irradiate, transfusion / transference, cosmic burst. repeat.

Then you get Atomic Blast. Need I go on? Of course, any nice big-bang is great as a kinetics, but you will always be at your cap in big mobs.

Dark is a VERY NICE secondary to Kinetics (or vice-versa for Corrupters); however, I feel that Radiation is also very nice. Plus, Irradiate has an added benefit that no dark power (or any other) has: put 3 acc's in it, and use it to "crack `em open" - i.e. when you're in a big team doing +3's and +4's, pop irradiate (which has the longest defense-debuff of the rad set) and THEN FS and transference/transfusion.

It is a tough call, dark vs. rad, but those are the two to take. I deleted my kin/electric around level 16 as it was just painful to play.

Final note: to the guy who said drop siphon power: ARE YOU NUTS? ;-) I can see where it's just going to not help *IF* you FS a big enough mob and hit your cap, but remember this: IT IS A DEBUFF, TOO . It's like hitting your heal on a mob when no one needs it (i.e. during an AV fight): it slows/turns off their regen! Hello?

Anyway, the example build above kinda stinks, so I'll get out my builds and post them so some other random guy can pick it apart! ;-)

-FB

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: disgust
Level: 39
Archetype: Corruptor
Primary: Dark Blast
Secondary: Kinetics
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Dark Blast==&gt; Acc(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(7)Dmg(11)TH_DeBuf(25)TH_DeBuf(37)
01) --&gt; Transfusion==&gt; Acc(1)Heal(5)Heal(9)Heal(15)Rechg(25)
02) --&gt; Gloom==&gt; Acc(2)Dmg(3)Dmg(7)Dmg(9)TH_DeBuf(21)TH_DeBuf(31)
04) --&gt; Siphon Power==&gt; Acc(4)Rechg(5)
06) --&gt; Combat Jumping==&gt; DefBuf(6)
08) --&gt; Hurdle==&gt; Jump(8)
10) --&gt; Siphon Speed==&gt; Acc(10)Rechg(11)
12) --&gt; Night Fall==&gt; Acc(12)Dmg(13)Dmg(13)Dmg(15)Range(19)TH_DeBuf(31)
14) --&gt; Super Jump==&gt; Jump(14)
16) --&gt; Tenebrous Tentacles==&gt; Acc(16)Dmg(17)Dmg(17)Dmg(19)Range(21)TH_DeBuf(31)
18) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(18)
20) --&gt; Speed Boost==&gt; EndMod(20)EndMod(40)EndMod(40)
22) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --&gt; Acrobatics==&gt; EndRdx(24)
26) --&gt; Moonbeam==&gt; Acc(26)Dmg(27)Dmg(27)Dmg(29)IntRdx(29)IntRdx(34)
28) --&gt; Inertial Reduction==&gt; Rechg(28)
30) --&gt; Stealth==&gt; DefBuf(30)
32) --&gt; Blackstar==&gt; Acc(32)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)TH_DeBuf(34)Rechg(34)
35) --&gt; Transference==&gt; Acc(35)EndMod(36)EndMod(36)EndMod(36)Rechg(37)Acc(37)
38) --&gt; Fulcrum Shift==&gt; Acc(38)Acc(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(39)Rechg(40)
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Sprint==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Brawl==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Scourge==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Rest==&gt; Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Radical Roy
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Kinetics
Secondary: Radiation Blast
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Transfusion==&gt; Acc(1)Heal(3)Heal(13)Heal(17)Rechg(37)Rechg(46)
01) --&gt; Neutrino Bolt==&gt; Acc(1)Dmg(5)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)DefDeBuf(46)DefDeBuf(46)
02) --&gt; Siphon Power==&gt; Acc(2)Rechg(3)Rechg(17)Rechg(36)Acc(43)
04) --&gt; Irradiate==&gt; Acc(4)Dmg(5)Dmg(7)Dmg(13)Rechg(21)Rechg(21)
06) --&gt; Siphon Speed==&gt; Acc(6)Rechg(7)Rechg(9)Rechg(36)Acc(40)
08) --&gt; X-Ray Beam==&gt; Acc(8)Dmg(9)Dmg(11)Dmg(15)Rechg(37)Rechg(45)
10) --&gt; Hurdle==&gt; Jump(10)Jump(50)
12) --&gt; Combat Jumping==&gt; DefBuf(12)
14) --&gt; Super Jump==&gt; Jump(14)
16) --&gt; Assault==&gt; EndRdx(16)
18) --&gt; Speed Boost==&gt; EndMod(18)EndMod(19)EndMod(19)
20) --&gt; Health==&gt; Heal(20)
22) --&gt; Stamina==&gt; EndMod(22)EndMod(23)EndMod(23)
24) --&gt; Tactics==&gt; TH_Buf(24)TH_Buf(25)TH_Buf(25)
26) --&gt; Transference==&gt; Acc(26)Acc(27)EndMod(27)EndMod(31)EndMod(31)Rechg(34)
28) --&gt; Cosmic Burst==&gt; Acc(28)Dmg(29)Dmg(29)Dmg(31)Rechg(36)Rechg(37)
30) --&gt; Repel==&gt; EndRdx(30)
32) --&gt; Fulcrum Shift==&gt; Acc(32)Acc(33)Acc(33)Rechg(33)Rechg(34)Rechg(34)
35) --&gt; Stealth==&gt; DefBuf(35)
38) --&gt; Atomic Blast==&gt; Acc(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Rechg(40)Rechg(40)
41) --&gt; Power Build Up==&gt; Rechg(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)TH_Buf(42)TH_Buf(43)TH_Buf(43)
44) --&gt; Temp Invulnerability==&gt; DmgRes(44)DmgRes(45)DmgRes(45)
47) --&gt; Total Focus==&gt; Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)Rechg(50)
49) --&gt; Inertial Reduction==&gt; Jump(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --&gt; Sprint==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Brawl==&gt; Empty(1)
01) --&gt; Vigilance==&gt; Empty(1)
02) --&gt; Rest==&gt; Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

*rubs eyes*
I’m not really sure where your coming from one this. I’m not going to comment on your kintices defender because I only have experience with /kin (troller and corruptor).

Ok so this toon isn’t speced pvp from what I can tell there just isn’t enough accuracy involved but I really don’t get what your trying to do.

Hasten: I know it’s not perma anymore but it’s pretty close and if you stack three siphon speeds (.6) and add in hasten (.7) your recharge times are nil. This is a major advantage of kinetics it’s speed.

Siphon speed: Only one acc and one recharge? Two acc and three recharge IMHO

Inertial Reduction: Why two travel powers? Seems like a waste to me. I know you wanted to get acrobatics but you don’t need IR also then. Also it’s perma without a recharge so I have a jump in mine.

Transference: With the knew changes to endurance draining this is actually on my list of “things to test when I7 hits test” so I’ll get back to you but 3

As far as dropping siphon power with stacked siphon speeds and hasten my fulcrum shift is up so often that I simply never used it and I found frost breath (ice/kin corruptor) to have decent damage with fulcrum and the added slow to really help. Do I occasionally fight a hero/AV and miss it? Sure but with my toon I found myself using my other powers so much at 40 that I dropped it and haven’t missed it since.

[ QUOTE ]
*rubs eyes*
I'm not really sure where your coming from one this. I'm not going to comment on your kintices defender because I only have experience with /kin (troller and corruptor).

[/ QUOTE ]
This is my corrupter build... stop rubbing your eyes ;-)

[ QUOTE ]
Ok so this toon isn't speced pvp from what I can tell there just isn't enough accuracy involved but I really don't get what your trying to do.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, this is NOT for PvP - so what I am "trying to do" is level up at a reasonable speed, both solo and team-support. There is more to the game than PvP, believe it or not.

[ QUOTE ]
Hasten: I know it's not perma anymore but it's pretty close and if you stack three siphon speeds (.6) and add in hasten (.7) your recharge times are nil. This is a major advantage of kinetics it's speed.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, and many of my kinetics (defenders, controllers) have Hasten. I just did not have room for it in this build. I wanted / needed stealth, as CoV is more hazardous than CoH typically. My recharge times are still quite good, as I often stack 2 siphon speeds continuously.

[ QUOTE ]
Siphon speed: Only one acc and one recharge? Two acc and three recharge IMHO

[/ QUOTE ]
I normally do 2+3 as you mention, but again: with this build (dark as a primary is awesome) there were simply too many things to slot. Also note: as a corrupter build, I only have 40 levels to work with, so the number of slots is much less than the typical level 50 builds you might be used to. It's an easy issue to overlook.

[ QUOTE ]
Inertial Reduction: Why two travel powers? Seems like a waste to me. I know you wanted to get acrobatics but you don't need IR also then. Also it's perma without a recharge so I have a jump in mine.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because nothing is more annoying than to have to refresh one's travel power every 60 seconds. Period. Besides, IR is vital to helping teammates and lowbies (that are MK'd) get around safely and efficiently (especially in CoV where being vertically challenged sucks). In CoH, I am 50/50 on keeping IR. Often it goes (like ID).

[ QUOTE ]
Transference: With the knew changes to endurance draining this is actually on my list of "things to test when I7 hits test" so I'll get back to you but 3

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean by this... but 3 end mods? Yeah, that's all I wanted/needed.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as dropping siphon power with stacked siphon speeds and hasten my fulcrum shift is up so often that I simply never used it and I found frost breath (ice/kin corruptor) to have decent damage with fulcrum and the added slow to really help. Do I occasionally fight a hero/AV and miss it? Sure but with my toon I found myself using my other powers so much at 40 that I dropped it and haven't missed it since.

[/ QUOTE ]
Different strokes for different folks. I like the debuff effect of Siphon Power. I can't tell you how many times a mob gets HELD or MEZZ'd after a siphon power because I or a teammate stacked some on previously. I just cannot see going without this simple bread &amp; butter power (like siphon speed is).

My fulcrum shift is up often, but I and my teammates usually move through mobs quite rapidly (more than any pickup team seems to, from my experiences), so it's not up as often as we'd like, besides, when there is just 1 mob, SP is more efficient than FS. Still, I have and use both, so it's even more effective. Again, different strokes for different folks.

Did you see my Fire/Kinetics controller build (posted right after the Corrupter Build you commented on)? It's not PvP, either (as there was no PvP when I took that toon to the mid/low 40's). It's w/o leadership pool, and I'd drop IR, in all likliness now, as I don't team (or even play) with that toon anymore.

-FyreBlast

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Inertial Reduction: Why two travel powers? Seems like a waste to me. I know you wanted to get acrobatics but you don't need IR also then. Also it's perma without a recharge so I have a jump in mine.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because nothing is more annoying than to have to refresh one's travel power every 60 seconds. Period. Besides, IR is vital to helping teammates and lowbies (that are MK'd) get around safely and efficiently (especially in CoV where being vertically challenged sucks). In CoH, I am 50/50 on keeping IR. Often it goes (like ID).

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I mentioned IR was if your build is so tight that you can’t pick up hasten this seemed like a reasonable power to drop. On my corruptor I took IR as my only travel power and just created a macro which would cast IR on auto and jump forward. I find that most zones (pretty much all but nevra) only require two castings at most. As far as lowbies you already can grant them super speed but why not get recall friend, wait too many pools. Dunno I don’t usually team with many below 14 when I’m 40.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Transference: With the knew changes to endurance draining this is actually on my list of "things to test when I7 hits test" so I'll get back to you but 3

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean by this... but 3 end mods? Yeah, that's all I wanted/needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I was getting at is that there has been a recent change to mobs endurance levels and resistance to endurance drains. I find it more useful to slot two acc, 3 recharge and one end mod and reapply but like I said I have no hard data to back up which is more effective at 1) Supplying you with greater end/sec 2)Draining mobs. Testing will occur once I7 hits test

[ QUOTE ]

Did you see my Fire/Kinetics controller build (posted right after the Corrupter Build you commented on)? It's not PvP, either (as there was no PvP when I took that toon to the mid/low 40's). It's w/o leadership pool, and I'd drop IR, in all likliness now, as I don't team (or even play) with that toon anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually no I saw a kinetic defender thus my first comment originally. You didn’t post any controller build.

[ QUOTE ]
Different strokes for different folks. I like the debuff effect of Siphon Power. I can't tell you how many times a mob gets HELD or MEZZ'd after a siphon power because I or a teammate stacked some on previously. I just cannot see going without this simple bread &amp; butter power (like siphon speed is).

My fulcrum shift is up often, but I and my teammates usually move through mobs quite rapidly (more than any pickup team seems to, from my experiences), so it's not up as often as we'd like, besides, when there is just 1 mob, SP is more efficient than FS. Still, I have and use both, so it's even more effective. Again, different strokes for different folks.



[/ QUOTE ]

Mind you, I can see the value of, and promote, Siphon Power for single-target debuffing - against AVs, SP + FS can leave them ... well, some of them... weak as kittens. Nothing like having a blaster survive Nightstar's nuke with barely a scratch, and then a nice Transfusion to top them off...

... but what does the mob getting mezzed have to do with anything?

Siphon Power's purely a -dmg power. In terms of a debuff, if your have mezzes... well... if the mob is held, they are doing 0 damage to you as it is...

Mind you, if it WAS like, say, RI, which includes a -def effect, I could see it... but...

... I don't think it does what you seem to think it does here.

Stacking siphon power doesn't contribute in any way to help you or your teammates mez land.

And - Dark Pit sucks rocks one-slotted.

It's quite nice 6-slotted... 2 acc, 2 diso, 2 recharge.

And if you happen to have Vanguard or Power Buildup it's quite helpful against minions.

I'm not a Kin/Dark or Kin/Rad, so please excuse this if it's an ignorant statement: I fail to see how either of FyreBlast's proposed builds fall under the topic of this thread. This is supposed to be a scrapper build. Where are the melee attacks?

If you're simply posting builds for standard kinetics/ defenders, that deserves (and rightly so.. I love kinetics) its own thread. So how about some builds based on melee? We'd love to see them!

Thanks! And thanks to Electron Girl for such an interesting idea!

Having played with EG a few times, I think some of the last few posters have missed the point of this idea.

Perhaps it would have been better stated as a Kinetics "scrapper".

The idea is a Kinetics/Dark Blast defender who plays constantly in Melee range, using Melee attacks (like a scrapper), supplementing with a few blasts.

If you wanted to go totally amalgamated, it would be termed a "Defscraptroller". Debuffs/buffs, melee attacks, and soft control. "Offender" is not right, "Deftroller" is not right, it's a completely unique concept.

Trust me, if you play with someone who understands and utilizes this build to maximum efficiency, it's a sight to behold.

Made my claws/regen look like a psych ward reject.


-AG

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

i use my kin/daRK to do what i call "the kinetic rundown" on tanks, scrappers, stalkers, brutes, etc... and use my range, debuffs, and slows to stop blappers. if she had more hp she would be more of a best than she already is. it's flattering that at lvl 34 she has to be triple teamed in warburg or siren's to be killed. the power of kinetics is incredible, and have really no counter but another kin. my baby is spec'd for pvp, but i skipped dark pit, im thinking about grabbing it again..but not sure. i use the aoe debuffs to lock down and murder groups with ease. she lacks on the damage side, but has a constant stream of attacks to stack debuffs. which in the long run is more important. i use my guaranteed immobs to lock players down and sap end while my teammates come to help kill. if anyone is contemplating running the kin set..i STRONGLY suggest running tactics. it will help you manage your slots better.

I'd actually forgotten that I posted this, I've been so caught up in making pincushions out of pooheads. O_O

[ QUOTE ]
Combat Jumping with a recharge? I didn’t even know this was possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't, and I don't know how it got there. I've seen at least one other posted build (nothing related, just a random build i was looking at) that also had a Recharge Reduction listed for a power that didn't allow for recharge slotting. So I'm going to blame it on a planner glitch.

[ QUOTE ]
Acrobatics: With stamina and transference I have never found that acrobatics was endurance heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

With Transferance, it's not even remotely necessary. However, slotting an extra Endurance Reduction here and there allows us to fight without having to use Transferance as often, which can get a bit dull at times. By the time that SO is slotted, the buff/debuff string is already lengthy - Fulcrum Shift, Siphon Speed, Siphon Power, Transfusion - and cutting one out is going to make the character just a little less tedious. Smooshing good. Smooshing fun. More smooshing = more good fun!

[ QUOTE ]
Speed Boost: Meh I would three slot but if your really tight on slots I can see not doing this *cough* combat jumping *cough*

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't slot it at all, or I'd slot it with 3 Run Speeds, after all the SBPLZ! and MORSBKTHX! I've heard.

[ QUOTE ]
Increase Density: Again recharge time? What is it like 1 sec? I have never seen anyone but recharge reduction in this power…

[/ QUOTE ]

The recharge is to help get the buff-bot portion of being a Kin out of the way a little sooner. The default recharge doesn't mesh well with hitting teammates with a SB/ID combo, forcing you to wait for ID to recharge.

If it's going to be used reactively, skip the recharge. If it's used pro-actively, keep the recharge in so you can get your "buffing responsibilities" over with sooner.

[ QUOTE ]
With the new endurance drain nerfs this may not be possible but if you are going for electric Ancillary you can grab power sink, and slot both transference and powersink with endmods. This way you can use these powers as soft holds. Drain someones end down to zero and they can't attack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that this would require replacing some of the Recharge Reduction SOs, which would mean the powers aren't available as quickly. The build revolves around doing everything as quickly as possible, not doing the best at any one thing. Also, after Fulcrum Shift and Siphon Power, then Transfusion to heal up any damage taken, a single critter isn't enough of a threat to really worry about, even if it keeps attacking.

[ QUOTE ]
First off, you are relying on Dark Pit? WOW. Have you used this lemon? Unless you enjoy fighting -2 to -3 level mobs, don't bank on it AT ALL. It sucks beyond words.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a one-shot status effect mitigator to set you up for safer melee combat. As there are no other methods of dealing with Disorients or Sleeps available to a lone Kinetic, this option has to suffice.

To more fully address your commentary, I haven't used Dark Pit, but I have used Pulsar, and that power has the same basic function. Pulsar works admirably for status effect mitigation and self-defense, so I see no reason why a ranged Disorient AoE wouldn't offer the same functionality. Especially since Warshades also get a ranged Disorient (cone) and do quite well with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Second, you want MELEE attack? OK, but Flurry is going to root you to the spot for 2-3 seconds, hit or miss. No thanks. Being a Kinetics means being MOBILE. In and Out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please re-read my comments on Flurry. This has been addressed. And having taken my Kinetics scrapper to 50 and done it with Flurry, I consider my opinion to hold slightly more merit and weight than that of someone who hasn't.

Not a single word of the remainder of your commentary had anything at all to do with Kinetics scrappers, so it won't be addressed. Keep the corrupter/normal defender discussion in other threads, please.

[ QUOTE ]
Having played with EG a few times, I think some of the last few posters have missed the point of this idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. The Clue Bunny must've jumped over this thread when he was laying eggs. -_-

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me, if you play with someone who understands and utilizes this build to maximum efficiency, it's a sight to behold.

[/ QUOTE ]

SMOOSH!

*runs off to find a Giant Monster to fight to a standstill again*

Well I recently made a kin/dark def and came looking for a few pointers and found this. Well right now I was wandering why noone has said or pointed to staking darkpit and opressive gloom to keeps things a littel for dizzy from the darkmastery set togather and how high of a buff would fulcrum shift and soul drain put the def dmg at?

Just a quick suggestion. I have a feeling that /Sonic might be a better fit for this than /Dark.

Sonic has an AoE sleep with a duration much longer than Dark Pit. Which will thus allow you to fight mobs one on one. Sonic's hardest hitting single target attack is very close range and thus fits with the theme of the build. And Sonic's secondary effect improves the overall damage of the build. Kinetics buffs your damage, Sonics debuffs enemy damage resistance.

I have a question for anyone who has tested this... what does more DPS:

1) Flurry + AS
2) Boxing + Kick + AS
??

[ QUOTE ]
Just a quick suggestion. I have a feeling that /Sonic might be a better fit for this than /Dark.

[/ QUOTE ]

/Sonic would fit this type of character beautifully. Good call.

[ QUOTE ]
Well I recently made a kin/dark def and came looking for a few pointers and found this. Well right now I was wandering why noone has said or pointed to staking darkpit and opressive gloom to keeps things a littel for dizzy from the darkmastery set togather and how high of a buff would fulcrum shift and soul drain put the def dmg at?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer isn't really simple. Each buff is dependant on the number of critters available. 8 critters allows you to almost cap your damage with Fulcrum Shift, presuming you have 3 Damage SOs in your attacks (base 100%, 95% from enhancements, 25% from each critter, total 395%, 5% under the cap).

That's one of the two reasons I didn't take or recommend Dark Mastery. Fulcrum Shift does the +damage perfectly well by itself. For soloing and facing smaller spawns, using both FS and SD would be useful to get you to the cap, but as noted in the original guide, that's more time you're spending buffing, less time you're spending smooshing, and the amount of +damage you get may not be worth that trade-off.

Also, again, Thunder Strike is important to the basic build. With only pool melee attacks to deal your damage, you eventually come to appreciate having at least 1 high damage melee attack, something that Dark Mastery lacks completely.

As for the control options, there's "enough to do the job" and there's "I'm not scrapping, I'm controlling". For this type of character, you need the former, not the latter. Kinetics gives enough -damage to make extra control unnecessary, especially when you add Charged Armor or Tough to the equation. If the character is capable of tanking, there isn't nearly as much need for control. And a well built Kinetics scrapper can definitely tank.