Yeah, if used with a good controller, or even the elec primary, /fire can be the source of most of your damage easily.
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You can do more damage with your secondary attacks, because they do more damage...
Try Fire Sword Circle on for size, 5 brawl AoE, combined with firball and firebreath and combustion is a complete 4 attack chain that deals about 18 brawls worth of damage and activates in 11 seconds.
That means you can aim, build up and then unleash all of those. That is 2.8 brawls more than inferno, the most damaging nuke, wont drain your end, and you can use cumbustion right after it to get any endo back from the survivors.
You need a tank for that, but you can do it
Yea, fire does not have as much utility as /elec, /ice, /dev, /energy. But it has more damage, a whole hell of a lot more damage.
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you my friend are freaking wrong. that assumption may be true of other sets... but there is nothing in the fire secondary that matches the sheer power of a built up aimed fire breath+fire balll combo.
It's obvious to me that you're no fire fire blaster. I am. In fact fire/fire/fire and fire sword and fire sword circle just don't do that kind of damage. try this argument elsewhere. And burn is no melee attack. neither is combustion, hot feet or the other DoT crud littering the fire secondary. They are weak back loaded powers best fitted to a tanker.
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I'd like to point out two things...
1. Notice how fire was the shortest?
2. Come on about burn. It's near worthless without taunt (or a hold and infinite patience)
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1. Notice how fire has the higest damage AoE attacks?
2. Burn can be used to make enemies stay away from melee if you need to, as they run from it, that was the point of listing it.
Fire is not as good at utility as the rest, i thought i mentioned that, but it is much better in damage. Ice and Elec are not however, energy and devices, and the complaint is that anything other than energy and decives is useless, or just plain not as good, when that assertion is wrong, they are good for different things.
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bullllllll shizzzzzzittttttteeeee.
I've used EVERY power in the fire secondary. that includes burn. it dosen't last long enough to provide any real protection. you have to ROOT yourself to use it. I'd rather be bobbing and weaving... kiting and jumping around like a mad man while lobbing attacks like a paperboy on speed lobbing the daily newspaper. I have had Nemesis walk right up to a burn patch and spear the hell out of me. leaving me dazed well after the fire dies down... then they just gun you down like the idiot you are. No thanks... no more for me sir. And the fact is you can't even slot the damn thing for fear.
burn only has a few applcations.... but honestly I can do way more damage with my PRIMARY attacks. Burn.... is a waste.
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Fire secondary powers are very useful and good, such as build up, consume and.....erm......and....."Help me here guys!!!" please contact me next week for further analisis 
As a fire/fire blaster lvl 44, I agree with hepheatus, they are worth nothing.....hot feet can be combined with rain of fire (casted on yourself) to save your pencil-neck hero, but the animation of hot feet makes sure thugs get 2 or 3 blows into your weakling body before running away......and burn etcetc are......please contact me next week for further analisis
Do not be jealous because i know more about your secondary than you do.
You can deal that damage if you choose to, if you dont slot attacks they will do terrible damage. Gee, wonder why...
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Over all, it just seemed like people are saying that blasters are being greedy by wanting to do what pretty much every other AT does anyway. I think they are just wanting what everyone else has.
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No I definitely agree that at late game they are unnecessarily handicapped. Like I posted in earlier threads, Melee Range is brought to THEM whether they like it or not and in Late game that means Status effects too. ...Keep in mind I make Scraptrollers as a hobby so I'm Well aware of how many more Status Effects you have to deal with when you run in Melee range all the time or melee range is brought to you via Mass-Aggro issues.
Anyway, like I was saying, By the Time Blasters finally get some EPPs that assist with Melee, they're already being bombarded with Status effects too. That's NOT the way it should work. The EPP's should introduce light Status Resists, and temporary melee Defenses at the same time they get mid-game Melee Powers. My Blapper for instance "flashes" the WeddingBand tempPower on and off while Meleeing. It's certainly not "Overpowered" because I only have a limited 2 hours of use for it and have to be conservative. 
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Do not be jealous because i know more about your secondary than you do.
You can deal that damage if you choose to, if you dont slot attacks they will do [censored] damage. Gee, wonder why...
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yeah right.
You think it... I've PLAYED IT.
I win. And what makes you think I DIDN'T SLOT THEM. you know what happens when you assume. of course when the epics came along I dropped those wortheless powers for Char, Bonfire, And Fire shield... Now THOSE are good powers. A ranged hold.... oh my god... the utillity of a long ranged hold. definitely worth 6 slots. Bonfire... A field of flame that does what burn was meant to do. keep mobs the hell away from me. I've been able to corner bosses with the thing then just spam attacks and char to my hearts content. boss killing ackshun at last. And of course one of the best anti nemesis tools ever. FireShield. So who the hell needs any of that crap anyways? The best thing about the fire secondary is that it's easily replaced by pools and APP's.
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You think it... I've PLAYED IT.
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I'll actually back Heph up on that claim.
He's logged over a 1000 hours on one of THESE
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Here's how you can tell blasters are generally useless. Try to think of a single team, a single situation, a single time in game where a team trying to decided between two potential teammates would say "No, lets not take the scrapper, let's take the blaster!"
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An AV with a heavy PBAoE attack.
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I counter with asking which AV? So far, my Regen hasn't had too much trouble with the straight damage of any AVs, let alone a of shoot AoE. And I'm generally smart enough to back of a second before Nightstar or Anti-Matter nukes.
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No idea. Nosferatu maybe. He just asked for a situation where a Blaster would be better and that's all I could come up with. Aside from herding.
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Do not be jealous because i know more about your secondary than you do.
You can deal that damage if you choose to, if you dont slot attacks they will do [censored] damage. Gee, wonder why...
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yeah right.
You think it... I've PLAYED IT.
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I'll actually back him up on that claim.
He's logged over a 1000 hours on one of THESE
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Me or him?
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Really, you would have been better off not even mentioning a minor-damage attack with a three minute timer. I was almost agreeing with you until that one.
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Okay, and the next time someone mention Short Circuit, Ball Lightning, Ice Storm, Buck Shot, ignite and Rain of Fire as "Good damaging AoE attacks," I'll make sure to promptly ignore everything else they said.
Someone else covered the other thing you mentioned.
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Here's something else to consider, didn't scrapper get Crits to be more helpful on a team? Why do they need Crits and a higher damage cap?
Also on the Risk thing, as obviously being in melee, reguardless of defences, is more dangerous then being at ranged, why don't tankers have a 500% damage cap? They're obviously in more danger then scrappers, they are required to draw the aggro and take melee beatings for the rest of the team, and not just themselves.
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Don't recall who said it, but someone said "ranged + Control = Overpowered," doesn't that make Controller pets over powered? The pets are ranged damage sources, and the Controller is controlling for the pets. So it's overpowered for Blasters to be able to mass hold and kill everything, but controllers are just fine being able to mass hold and kill everything? And don't give me that "31 levels of hell" crap, it's called a team, if we blasters are required to get in one 35+, you can suffer through the easy [censored] first 31 levels in one. I Have solo'd with controllers, before pets, when nothing is hurting you, it isn't that bad, especially if you slot your single target hold and Immob for damage.
Heph's done the time on Fire/Fire. Give the man some respect. Even if he's crotchety in his age. :P
Seriously- at what level are you laying in melee chains with your Fire/Fire blaster? If I was killing in a crowd with that many attacks in a row, I'd expect to getting pounded if not flattened somewhere in the middle of it.
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Really, you would have been better off not even mentioning a minor-damage attack with a three minute timer. I was almost agreeing with you until that one.
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Okay, and the next time someone mention Short Circuit, Ball Lightning, Ice Storm, Buck Shot, ignite and Rain of Fire as "Good damaging AoE attacks," I'll make sure to promptly ignore everything else they said.
Someone else covered the other thing you mentioned.
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Here's something else to consider, didn't scrapper get Crits to be more helpful on a team? Why do they need Crits and a higher damage cap?
Also on the Risk thing, as obviously being in melee, reguardless of defences, is more dangerous then being at ranged, why don't tankers have a 500% damage cap? They're obviously in more danger then scrappers, they are required to draw the aggro and take melee beatings for the rest of the team, and not just themselves.
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Don't recall who said it, but someone said "ranged + Control = Overpowered," doesn't that make Controller pets over powered? The pets are ranged damage sources, and the Controller is controlling for the pets. So it's overpowered for Blasters to be able to mass hold and kill everything, but controllers are just fine being able to mass hold and kill everything? And don't give me that "31 levels of hell" crap, it's called a team, if we blasters are required to get in one 35+, you can suffer through the easy [censored] first 31 levels in one. I Have solo'd with controllers, before pets, when nothing is hurting you, it isn't that bad, especially if you slot your single target hold and Immob for damage.
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Well, really the biggest thing that makes States look like a fool in his quote is why blasters don't have a 500% cap on their melee.
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Heph's done the time on Fire/Fire. Give the man some respect. Even if he's crotchety in his age. :P
Seriously- at what level are you laying in melee chains with your Fire/Fire blaster? If I was killing in a crowd with that many attacks in a row, I'd expect to getting pounded if not flattened somewhere in the middle of it.
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Thats why a controller or them having no end is a better time for /fire to shine then a tanker.
Warning - this is my longest post...
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Especially at lower levels, if you're a low level Controller with anything besides a ton of slots in Empathy, you're going to have bad luck finding a good Blaster. Even the Good blasters often won't settle for any less than Empath. It would seem that the General Blaster-Opinion not just here, but in game too, is that Blasters are such fragile aggro-magnets that not even most dedicated defenders can keep them alive.
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The problem with with getting not empathy for blasters is that if a blaster needs a heal, it usually needs a big one. Although I will take any combination of two...
-Kinetics-
The heal of kinetics is melee, which is dangerous for blasters, although as it is a big enough heal, it is do-able, but if the heal misses the mob we are usually dead.
-Storm-
The O2 boost just doesn't heal enough if we are hurt, same for radiation.
-Force Fields-
FF will work if slotted enough, but generally does require a heal of some sort, but heal inspirations can fill in for this, in case we do get hit.
-Dark Miasma-
Dark doesn't heal enough for the most part, and it also isn't a guaranteed heal (similar to kinetics)
I my highest blaster is only 35, so I don't know too much about the levels past that, but I am able to solo invincible well (en/en) but I do require some downtime. I am also almost never in debt (mostly due to SS, maneuvers (well slotted), and lots of acc for my main knockbacks (torrent, and en punch 
)) But I don't think anyone thinks there is anything wrong with /energy or /devices.
As for blasters needing a general boost... I don't think so, /dev and /en work very well. Devices gives you lots of ways to control your enemy and can be devestating for them if used well. Energy melee attacks do what I personally think the other melee powers need to do, minor enemy control. The knockback and disorient do some damage than allow us to stop the enemy from killing us as soon as we use them (assuming they affect the enemy)
I think the other secondaries need to do more in the way of stopping the immediate death of the blaster, through either:
1-2 sec stun/holds that will allow us to run away.
More ways to keep mobs from closing into melee, either immobilize effects, or repelling powers)
Another option that I think would work well would be to have the scrapper primaries available as secondaries. I would love to have dark as a secondary. If we are going to have melee give us melee 
Look at the scrapper primaries:
Broadsword/Katana - reduces opponent defense, and one that raises yours
Claws - knockback and one that lowers defense.
Dark - lowers acc, terrorize, self heal, end regain, immobilize
Martial Arts - disorient, knockback, immobilize
Spines - all slow, immobilize, and are mostly ranged attacks as well.
These all have more to keep your character alive than blaster secondaries except for /dev, /en, and /ice. And they all do more to have more damage output (which is a blaster's role). Obviously I don't think they should get criticals, as that is something that is unique to scrappers and justifyably so.
I can't see blasters not finding these useful, and I don't think scrappers will really think we are taking away from them, as we still won't be able to take damage, and defenders get some of the blaster primaries, controllers get the defender primaries..
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The best thing about the fire secondary is that it's easily replaced by pools and APP's.
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The best thing and maybe the only thing...outside of themes
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Me or him?
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apologies... Edited for clarity
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Warning - this is my longest post...
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Especially at lower levels, if you're a low level Controller with anything besides a ton of slots in Empathy, you're going to have bad luck finding a good Blaster. Even the Good blasters often won't settle for any less than Empath. It would seem that the General Blaster-Opinion not just here, but in game too, is that Blasters are such fragile aggro-magnets that not even most dedicated defenders can keep them alive.
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The problem with with getting not empathy for blasters is that if a blaster needs a heal, it usually needs a big one. Although I will take any combination of two...
-Kinetics-
The heal of kinetics is melee, which is dangerous for blasters, although as it is a big enough heal, it is do-able, but if the heal misses the mob we are usually dead.
-Storm-
The O2 boost just doesn't heal enough if we are hurt, same for radiation.
-Force Fields-
FF will work if slotted enough, but generally does require a heal of some sort, but heal inspirations can fill in for this, in case we do get hit.
-Dark Miasma-
Dark doesn't heal enough for the most part, and it also isn't a guaranteed heal (similar to kinetics)
I my highest blaster is only 35, so I don't know too much about the levels past that, but I am able to solo invincible well (en/en) but I do require some downtime. I am also almost never in debt (mostly due to SS, maneuvers (well slotted), and lots of acc for my main knockbacks (torrent, and en punch )) But I don't think anyone thinks there is anything wrong with /energy or /devices.
As for blasters needing a general boost... I don't think so, /dev and /en work very well. Devices gives you lots of ways to control your enemy and can be devestating for them if used well. Energy melee attacks do what I personally think the other melee powers need to do, minor enemy control. The knockback and disorient do some damage than allow us to stop the enemy from killing us as soon as we use them (assuming they affect the enemy)
I think the other secondaries need to do more in the way of stopping the immediate death of the blaster, through either:
1-2 sec stun/holds that will allow us to run away.
More ways to keep mobs from closing into melee, either immobilize effects, or repelling powers)
Another option that I think would work well would be to have the scrapper primaries available as secondaries. I would love to have dark as a secondary. If we are going to have melee give us melee
Look at the scrapper primaries:
Broadsword/Katana - reduces opponent defense, and one that raises yours
Claws - knockback and one that lowers defense.
Dark - lowers acc, terrorize, self heal, end regain, immobilize
Martial Arts - disorient, knockback, immobilize
Spines - all slow, immobilize, and are mostly ranged attacks as well.
These all have more to keep your character alive than blaster secondaries except for /dev, /en, and /ice. And they all do more to have more damage output (which is a blaster's role). Obviously I don't think they should get criticals, as that is something that is unique to scrappers and justifyably so.
I can't see blasters not finding these useful, and I don't think scrappers will really think we are taking away from them, as we still won't be able to take damage, and defenders get some of the blaster primaries, controllers get the defender primaries..
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Well, I could care less what secondary a controller I team with, as long as he is high enough to have an AoE mezz. Screw healing. I like buffs and them not fighting much more.
As for blasters being balanced as a whole, even the best of /dev and /energy lag behind pretty much every other AT in the late game. The others are even far behind. In the competion with Scrappers for damage dealer, blasters aren't far enough ahead to be worth the extra hastle to the team, at least in the eyes of many.
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Really, you would have been better off not even mentioning a minor-damage attack with a three minute timer. I was almost agreeing with you until that one.
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Okay, and the next time someone mention Short Circuit, Ball Lightning, Ice Storm, Buck Shot, ignite and Rain of Fire as "Good damaging AoE attacks," I'll make sure to promptly ignore everything else they said.
Someone else covered the other thing you mentioned.
----------------------------
Here's something else to consider, didn't scrapper get Crits to be more helpful on a team? Why do they need Crits and a higher damage cap?
Also on the Risk thing, as obviously being in melee, reguardless of defences, is more dangerous then being at ranged, why don't tankers have a 500% damage cap? They're obviously in more danger then scrappers, they are required to draw the aggro and take melee beatings for the rest of the team, and not just themselves.
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Don't recall who said it, but someone said "ranged + Control = Overpowered," doesn't that make Controller pets over powered? The pets are ranged damage sources, and the Controller is controlling for the pets. So it's overpowered for Blasters to be able to mass hold and kill everything, but controllers are just fine being able to mass hold and kill everything? And don't give me that "31 levels of hell" crap, it's called a team, if we blasters are required to get in one 35+, you can suffer through the easy [censored] first 31 levels in one. I Have solo'd with controllers, before pets, when nothing is hurting you, it isn't that bad, especially if you slot your single target hold and Immob for damage.
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orochi you don't get to have goodies because you're an evil blaster. no pie for you.
Seriously... you're right. most of those blasters can't have x arguments just fly right out the window.
Thing is I don WANT massive defense. that would ruin the flavor of blasters. I want SOME defense. and SOME utility in blaster secondaries that dosen't involve kiting with electrified fists.
Here's one thing that strikes me odd as hell. why do the put ranged holds in certain blaster primaries? Man those should be ATTACKS... damage only. with some minor after effects. Tesla cage, the Freeze rays.... Heck even Voltaic sentinel belong in SECONDARIES. That NEVER made sense to me to put both a pet
AND a hold in a slow recharging powerset like elec. Freaking ridiculous. Then they just load the elec secondary up with melee attacks. .....BOGGLE. And */Ice which is elemental is of course... just shy of craptabulous.
sorry man. I'd rather take powers that make me effective in ANY team... instead of looking around for a controller just so I can use powers that I have to slot to use situationally. Call me a value shooper. I'd rather have superspeed and stealth so I can get in the first shot. Not going to waste a single slot on backloaded damage that my primary can easily match.
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Here's one thing that strikes me odd as hell. why do the put ranged holds in certain blaster primaries?
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Maybe it's because they're -ranged- holds, and the blaster secondaries are *MELEE*?
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sorry man. I'd rather take powers that make me effective in ANY team... instead of looking around for a controller just so I can use powers that I have to slot to use situationally. Call me a value shooper. I'd rather have superspeed and stealth so I can get in the first shot. Not going to waste a single slot on backloaded damage that my primary can easily match.
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Oh, in now way did I mean that /fire is good. Just that it can be useful. If you, say, always teamed with friends or had a good SG, than it would be wise to take it, or if you were elec/fire (or to some extent ice/fire) than you'd like it more.
The thing is most people that took fire/fire as a concept thing missed out on a lot of the buffs they probably would have wanted in things like energy or dev.
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Here's one thing that strikes me odd as hell. why do the put ranged holds in certain blaster primaries?
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Maybe it's because they're -ranged- holds, and the blaster secondaries are *MELEE*?
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Technically, they should be "support". Sadly except for Smoke grenade, most of the powers are player based. DOn't forget that all but 1 also have a range imob, is it too far a stretch to range holds?
I like the option of melee attacks in the blaster secondary. I think Energy is the ideal in many ways, although I would like to see one of the boost powers be the initial one, maybe build up be the first power. It has 4 melee attacks that have specialized secondary effects. Power Thrust is a terrific power for knocking strong melee bad guys away from you. Punch & Bonesmasher have nearly Identical DPS & the same chance to stun over a minute (EP has less chance to stun per attack, but more attacks per minute, so the chance to stun is similar). Stun is situational, but can be beneficial to a blaster. & of course Total Focus, the big Kahuna. Thats 5 melee attacks that are really good situationally.
Besides that the power set has 4 effects boosts that are all valuable, Power Boost, Build Up Conserve Power & Range Boost. This is a nice versatile set, & a good one for a player that wants to make a Blapper.
I think all of the Blaster secondaries should roughly follow this example, except Devices which is a really good, but very different type of set.
If I was going to change Energy Manipulation, I would add something like Temporary Invulnerability or Force Bolt to replace probably Energy Punch.
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sorry man. I'd rather take powers that make me effective in ANY team... instead of looking around for a controller just so I can use powers that I have to slot to use situationally. Call me a value shooper. I'd rather have superspeed and stealth so I can get in the first shot. Not going to waste a single slot on backloaded damage that my primary can easily match.
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Oh, in now way did I mean that /fire is good. Just that it can be useful. If you, say, always teamed with friends or had a good SG, than it would be wise to take it, or if you were elec/fire (or to some extent ice/fire) than you'd like it more.
The thing is most people that took fire/fire as a concept thing missed out on a lot of the buffs they probably would have wanted in things like energy or dev.
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no argument there. the funny thing is... I ended up with a fairly decent build becaue I AVOIDED MY SECONDARY LIKE THE PLAGUE.
I ended up With Fire Sword circle, Cosume, Ring of fire, and build up. Left room for phase-shift and 3 of the Epp's. It would have been great to have energy or devices. (they have issues too) I think it's whack that we have just two great secondaries. the rest are really quite situational.
You can do more damage with your secondary attacks, because they do more damage...
Try Fire Sword Circle on for size, 5 brawl AoE, combined with firball and firebreath and combustion is a complete 4 attack chain that deals about 18 brawls worth of damage and activates in 11 seconds.
That means you can aim, build up and then unleash all of those. That is 2.8 brawls more than inferno, the most damaging nuke, wont drain your end, and you can use cumbustion right after it to get any endo back from the survivors.
You need a tank for that, but you can do it
Yea, fire does not have as much utility as /elec, /ice, /dev, /energy. But it has more damage, a whole hell of a lot more damage.