Goumindong

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Bug. We neglected to give Stalkers and Brutes the immunity to the Range Debuff that Scrappers and Tankers get. I fixed it internally yesterday...it'll hopefully make it to you folks "Soon(tm)"

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Honestly, I have never been able to hit a player with hurricane up with a scrapper or tanker...

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That is a lie Ryko, because you have been able to hit and kill me in PvP. Storm is good VS melee, but that is about it, should storm defenders complain because they have no way to effectivly attack a blaster, or prevent being splattered by one?

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Granny Gertrudes Grammar mantra...."I can Affect the Effect."

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I love you.

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He was also wrong, "in effect" is correct, if you want to get into it, we cant take it to PM.

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Original Post edited to add "but not" - Tar Patch and Freezing Rain are classified as differently.

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You realize that "All -resistance powers, but not tar Patch and Freezing Rain have been reduced" is the same as saying "Only Envenerating Field was reduced", because Envenerating Field, Freezing Rain, and Tar Patch were the only resistance debuffers in the game as of I4?

That is similar to saying, that "all defender single target hold durations were reduced, but not Tesla Cage", instead of just saying "Petrifying Gaze was nerfed"

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We are continuing to look at the set. Being one of the new sets in the game, it is going to be scrutinized beyond just the Training Room server.

If the set continues to prove itself sub-par on the Live servers, then some adjustments will be made.

This was one of the hardest sets to define. It falls out of line with the "normal" Defender sets. It isn't a buff set, its a debuff set. Its really a different playstyle than Defenders have had before.

For those who complain that the Archetypes who have the fewest sets were overlooked... the next planned powersets are melee based.

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Wait, a debuff set? That is different from Rad/Dark/Storm whose primary defenses are debuffs?

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Circeus, there is something you (and many others) have glossed over about Statesman's numbers...they are off...WAY off.

As stated, invul passives are 7.5% (which has been tested and everyone agrees on that number) but where the error comes is in the enhancements. Statesman said that max with +3 level SO resists you would get 18.975% from the invul passives. Think that through everyone. To get 18.975% from +3 level enhancements each enhancement would need to provide 25.5% buff (((1 + (6 * .255)) * 7.5) = 18.975). This means that each defense and resist SO is gaining a 9.167% boost each level, as opposed to the accepted (and dev quoted from long ago) 5% boost each level.

Invul max on passives should be 17.85 = ((1 + (6 * (.2 * 1.15))) * 7.5)

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7.5% base * (1+ (6 Enhancements * .2 Enhancement increase)) * 1.15 for +3 Enhancements = 18.975.

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...Statesman and Circeus have just managed to nerf my brain.

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no, its ok. Statesman has had his mind nerf.

by changing the X1.15 from the +3's outside of the parenthesis, you multiply not only the enhancement (the 6 x .2) but also the base (the 1)

Its 1 + 6 enhancers and not, 1.15 x 6 enhancers.

Such Statesmen is wrong in his math.

The correct math is

Base x (1 + enhancement value) = Final

For 6 +3 def enhancers that would be

Base x ( 1 + (.2 x 1.15)+ (.2 x 1.15)+ (.2 x 1.15)+ (.2 x 1.15)+ (.2 x 1.15)+ (.2 x 1.15)) = Final

Which can be simplified to

Base x (1 + [6 x + (.2 x 1.15)])= final.

If the base is 7.5, then the final boost is 17.85


Statesman, this has been the third time that your math has been obviously wrong. Please get it right, or at least make sure your developers have it right. I am serioulsy doubting your ability to balance the game if you cannot even add up the bonuses on paper correctly. This is not difficult, but it is essential.

Adreniline boost has a rchg boost of something like 1.4-2.

It is at least twice as strong as hasten(.7).

So its just a weee bit better than a heavily slotted AM

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1. You can already do this, take the Speed Pool Power "Whirlwind" and run it before any other animation changing toggles(fly/hover) and you will no longer root when attacking. You will also knock up enemies who close to melee.

Be careful on the endo cost though

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O_O

You're joking. That would be almost worth picking up and six-slotting with endurance reduction if it didn't sound like a bug waiting to be fixed. I'll have to give it a try on Test sometime--forget about the combat benefits of non-rooting attacks, the added fun factor of being able to strafe targets like that would make it worthwhile...

Darn it, now I have to find out what the base endurance cost on Whirlwind is. Are we talking Stealth-level, Flight-level, or Instant Healing-level? What about with all endurance reduction?

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I am not joking, the endurance drain isnt too bad (half of flight, tripple stealth, 2/3 IH) until you start knocking enemies up with it, at which point it becomes very very rough

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I still maintain that, say, %80 of the aggrivation with Blasters could be dealt with by the following two changes:

1) Ranged attacks in the primary power sets no longer root while activating. Don't even need to change the actual activation times, simply make it so you can continue to dodge/run while firing. This can't be impossible to implement, as you can already do so with a proper leap-joust. And even Ice, with its fast animations, needs to hold still for the second they take to fire. With this, you'd actually be able to keep enemies at range, and thus have range be a viable defense.
2) Scale Blaster damage upwards as they level so that net effectiveness remains the same. Post SOs, Blasters actually decrease in effectiveness, as mob HP and resistances continue to rise, while there's no further way to self-improve damage. This leads to being able to obliterate yellows with a snipe at 22, but only being able to one-shot whites with a snipe at 50. Since offense=defense for blasters (more or less), this steady decrease in objective effectiveness is a big harm.

Boom. These two changes alone don't seem that hard to implement, but they'd go a long way to improving the 'feel' of the AT without (presumably) requiring drastic code rewrites.

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1. You can already do this, take the Speed Pool Power "Whirlwind" and run it before any other animation changing toggles(fly/hover) and you will no longer root when attacking. You will also knock up enemies who close to melee.

Be careful on the endo cost though

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That said, Full Auto, Total Focus and Shocking Grasp (I think that's the TF for elec), are very good power.

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Shocking Grasp is a single-target melee hold. The Ice PbAoE Sleep is probably quite good for solo play with the Ice primary - I would guess it's actually better than the nukes.

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It would be better if it slept things stronger than minions. As is, it is just terrible.

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It only sleeps Minions?

Still usefull, but less so, Sleep the minions, hold (1 sec activation) the Lt's (especialy if ice) and... Well, if it got the Lt's then you would just have to hold the bosses.

That kinda stinks, it should hit Lt's.

Imho, blaster control power should be "stonger" than defender control powers.

As blasters have no defense, they need to be out ahead of the enemy in order to survive, if it takes two applications of the sleep to get an LT, then its just not strong enough.

Again, because i like repeating myself and havent had a comment on it.

1. One second activation time on all secondary powres
2. All control powers are ranged (short) (melee attacks still melee)
3. FR tpye fear on Chilling Embrace and Hot Feet.
4. Some sort of +Def(ranged) in all or one of the APP's.

Now, a question. My ice blaster is planning on slotting up the AoE sleep in the ice APP, is that mag 3 or 2?

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Why do mobs have so much more range than my Blaster? It makes staying at range seem pretty weak.


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This where I have my beef. Every mob in the 40+ game has a ranged attack. Look at the carnies, the Attendants and Jugglers have ranged attacks that are longer than mine. The Strongmen, who I think of as tanks, can hurl rocks a very long distance AND lay down a hit that can knock me down.

How can blasters compete with everything having a ranged attack? What it looks like is blasters = minions.

I have always seen AT rolls as:

Defenders= assisting team members (buff/debuff)/dmg when able
Controllers = Enemy confusion/ assisting team members
Tanks = Keeping enemy occupied /moderate damage
Scrappers = Heavy hitter killers (lts/bosses) attacking with speed and dmg
Blasters = Big Damage/Minion Killers but not attacking with speed

As a blaster, I can one shot a white con minion with my snipe, most of the time. Any minion I can one shot with snipe, I can two shot with my other heavy hitting powers. A scrapper (without a crit) can not two shot a minion.

I also have a lvl 23 regen scrapper and I love playing him as much as I love playing my lvl 48 blaster. Here's a suggestion I have to help "level" the playing field, if that's what you feel you must do.

A critical hit to me, has always seemed like a lucky swing that knicked an artery. Theoretically, blasters have practiced their accuracy because they have ranged attack. I think blasters should have a version of the critical attack as well. Call it a "Bullseye" shot if you wish, but as ranged attackers, our accuracy should be our strength. Especially on a snipe attack when we have to concentrate that much harder and not be interrupted.

Just my thoughts.

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You know, changing minions to do 1/4 damage ranged, and LTs at 1/2 damage range and bosses to 3/4 damage ranged would go a long way to making this work.

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Maybe I make sammies faster than some, but I think I could make one before my friends old /Invuln died, as long as DP was on.

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I should point out that /Inv is significantly more powerful that /Regen except against Psi/Toxic opponents. I think it works out to something like 20 even con minions will, on a good day, match the regeneration of the /Inv if Def and Resist are both capped.

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I won't say your a liar, but that hasn't been my experience with the sets. Perhaps thats one of the things that works better on paper.

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Its becuase most people dont slot invincibility for +def, which makes it a very very very good power now that there is aparently a cap on the number of enemies.

And for fixing blasters, ill say it again...

1. All activation times on all secondary powers be set to 1
2. All control powers be set to ranged(short)
3. I4 FR type Fear be added to hot feat and Chilling Embrace
4. Some sort of +def(ranged) be added to each or at least one of the APP's

This is a whole lot of IRT's


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Heph's done the time on Fire/Fire. Give the man some respect. Even if he's crotchety in his age. :P

Seriously- at what level are you laying in melee chains with your Fire/Fire blaster? If I was killing in a crowd with that many attacks in a row, I'd expect to getting pounded if not flattened somewhere in the middle of it.

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Yes, you would, if you didnt have a tanker or a controller on your team, or were fighting huge groups of enemies.

However as it stands, Fire Sword Circle does 5.1 brawls worth of damage. That is nearly more damage than ball lightning and short circuit, that is more damage than any other single AoE that is not a final power. a mine, or fallout.

Yes, its not usefull without someone locking down mobs or taking the aggro, no, that does not mean its useless. Fire/Fire has an 11 second total activation chain that does 18 brawls worth of damage AoE, that is nothing to scoff at.

When a good controller is around the single target holds of ice/ elec/ /ice and /elec are near useless, and the AoE sleep in /ice is certianly useless.

They are much more usefull when alone, there are many powers like this, that shine when alone and are weak when in a group. Also there are powers that are weak when alone and wonderfull in groups.

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1. Notice how fire has the higest damage AoE attacks?


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This may appeal to me if I was a fire TANKER. Otherwise...you have the general opinion that its the worst of the sets.

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For soloing? yes. for pure AoE damage? no

The general opinion is that perma-hasten and 3 rchg 1 acc, 2 damage is best in most pets... and the general opinion is wrong in this case as well.

I am not saying that /fire has as much utility as the other sets, in fact i have said the opposite, many times. What i am saying is that it DOES serve a purpose, and it does have a use. However, just like saying "i chose rad as a secondary... im not as good as empathy, i cant heal as well", this is false because rad and empathy have different methods and purposes, and shine in different areas. Empathy is much better the less number of people are on your team, and rad requires aggro management more than empathy.

The same actualy can be said of the storm/rad/dark issue. Storm is a very good set, but it is difficult to control and draws aggro like mad. Now, blasters need a few "small" tweaks that will bring them back line with the rest, just as storm needs a few small tweaks to allow it to control its chaos and debuff as well as rad(FR got fixed... whoot).

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Fire Secondaries are a sorted affair... Its damage is really pathetic for something with a longer animation and no secondary effects. Even in the CoH's own Comic book you have WarWitch 1-shotting Minions and Lt's with her FireSword which really does make atleast a little more sense.

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Well, judging by her attacks, it seems Warwitch is lvl 8 (she has the first ice blast, fire sword, aim, and the low level ice hold). Assuming she slotted only Firesword (which seems evident by the way it is the only attack she really uses) and aims a lot, she might actually be able to one shot minions with it or something.

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Fire Sword does 6.28 BI of damage, so i would hope she could one shot minions with aim at lvl 8.

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One major problem I have with blasters right now is the new rule of "defenders should drain endurance better than blasters." Electricity blasters depend on one main move for endurance drain: short circuit. That power is primary power. Make it so a kinetics defender drains the same endurance as a blaster, but don't let an /elec defender drain more with their secondary powers than we can with our primary. That breaks the whole "primaries are stronger than secondaries" rule.



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This is an issue i forgot to address. Blaster elec needs to drain more than defender elec. This is also an issue with defenders/controllers (Storm primary is near identical in damage and debuffing as storm secondary). The drain increase should have gone to the blaster side(both secondary and primary) and not the defender side, defenders already have enough means to protect their team, they dont need the ehanced secondary effect.

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Do not be jealous because i know more about your secondary than you do.

You can deal that damage if you choose to, if you dont slot attacks they will do [censored] damage. Gee, wonder why...

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yeah right.

You think it... I've PLAYED IT.

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I'll actually back him up on that claim.
He's logged over a 1000 hours on one of THESE

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Me or him?

Do not be jealous because i know more about your secondary than you do.

You can deal that damage if you choose to, if you dont slot attacks they will do terrible damage. Gee, wonder why...

You can do more damage with your secondary attacks, because they do more damage...

Try Fire Sword Circle on for size, 5 brawl AoE, combined with firball and firebreath and combustion is a complete 4 attack chain that deals about 18 brawls worth of damage and activates in 11 seconds.

That means you can aim, build up and then unleash all of those. That is 2.8 brawls more than inferno, the most damaging nuke, wont drain your end, and you can use cumbustion right after it to get any endo back from the survivors.

You need a tank for that, but you can do it

Yea, fire does not have as much utility as /elec, /ice, /dev, /energy. But it has more damage, a whole hell of a lot more damage.

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2. Burn can be used to make enemies stay as far away from melee as necessary to shoot you in the head


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You had a typo. I fixed it.

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Thanks

Ranged defense is an issue, and i think ill amend my prior 3 changes to the secondaries to add something to the app pools.

1. All activation time of all secondaries should go to 1 second with no changes to the powers
2. All control powers should be range(short), this includes single, PBAoE, and loc based control
3. Hot Feet and Chilling Embrace should have an FR type fear effect
4. the APP's(or at least one APP) should probably contain (available at lvl 41) some sort of significant ranged def (as in, +def[ranged])option(and ranged def only)

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I'd like to point out two things...

1. Notice how fire was the shortest?

2. Come on about burn. It's near worthless without taunt (or a hold and infinite patience)

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1. Notice how fire has the higest damage AoE attacks?

2. Burn can be used to make enemies stay away from melee if you need to, as they run from it, that was the point of listing it.

Fire is not as good at utility as the rest, i thought i mentioned that, but it is much better in damage. Ice and Elec are not however, energy and devices, and the complaint is that anything other than energy and decives is useless, or just plain not as good, when that assertion is wrong, they are good for different things.

if you are bored, reply to my counterpoints(2-3 of my posts ago)

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So Havok has NEVER made an uppercut? He has NEVER punched another character? Cyclops has NEVER kicked or punched anyone? Green Arrow never has? No Blaster in the history of comics has EVER thrown a punch?

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That's not much justification for putting all those melee attacks in the secondary. Blasters who melee almost universally are using common normal attacks. Punches like Brawl, Boxing, or Air Superiority. Kicks like, well, Kick. Occasionally using some real skill, but never anything like the real martial arts heroes use - even allegedly normal martial artists like Batman. No, when Blasters in comic books are fighting in melee, it's pool powers they're using, almost universally.

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Because if those attacks were in the pools, and usefull enough to be used by blasters when in a melee situation, then those attacks are ALL any other at wanting attacks would take.

I mean really, Charged Brawl does 4.5 BI, Havok Punch does 8.2 BI, Frozen Fists does 4.5 BI, and hack does 4.5 BI(with slower activation and rchg and higher endo cost of CB/Frozen Fists), smite is 3.6 BI, Disembowl is 5.4 BI for braodsword and 5.0 BI for Katana, Crane Kick is 4.5, eagles claw is 5.5...

If the pool powers were good enough to be used as backup for a blaster (i.E. they must be better than the blasts), then they would be stupidly fantasitically uber for a scrapper or tanker, and they would all end up using pool attacks and be even better.

If it makes you feel better, as a storm def, i really like blasters and empaths. (empath for me, not the blaster)

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I do not choose to ignore it. it's simply laughable.

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No, it requires you to have the initiave. Blaster defences are based on being first(which is why i suggested the activation time decrease, 2 posts before this one), and then using the effects to your best benefit.

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save it for someone who hasen't played to damn near to 50 with 3 archetypes.

For the most part those secondaries are garbage. It's like playing half a freaking archetype. They're not even real secondaries. And they are definitely not equal. even the BEST of them are sorely lacking. Energy is too full of fisticuffs and devices lacks the ommph of build up. them mines are as buggy as a damned roach motel too.

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I will not save it for anyone else, as someone who has played a rad/rad defender, an inv/em tank and fire/fire blaster into the 50's, you should know the intracacies of nearly every single powerset combination in the game. You should know that /fire is not as strong for soloing as /elec and you should know that /elec doesnt offer as much extra damage in a team as /fire. You should know that sleeps are near useless in groups and wonderful when alone.

You should be able to create an effective blapper. You should be able to create an Team AoE monster(heck you should have one), that with minimal numbers of attacks can deal over nuke damage so long as you have a tank to keep the aggro off of you. You should be able to make a tank-fender out of dark/ and storm/(especaily dark), you should be able to make an SS tank deal nearly as much damage as a scrapper, you should be able to make a DA scrapper an INV/SR hybrid with three toggles, and you should be able to find a use for /elec, /fire, and /ice.

And if you cant, then it is not the fault of the powersets, though they are certianly not as intuitive, and certianly not all good for the same reasons. If you can not, then it is your fault.

Blasters do have some issues, however, these issues are not things that cannot be easily fixed.

As i have mentioned a simple fix to the blaster secondaries would be..

1. All activation times are set to 1 second
2. All controll powers are ranged(short)
3. Chilling Embrace and Hot Feet get and FR type Fear effect(as of i4, able to be countered slightly by tanker taunts).

The increases the control of blasters so that they dont need to be right next to enemies to let them off, this increases the damage done in melee, this adds melee defence to ice and fire, and this preserves and increases the ability of the blaster to be first and so survive in melee.

Support does help on a team, some not as much as others, but that applies to all AT's

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I do not choose to ignore it. it's simply laughable.

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No, it requires you to have the initiave. Blaster defences are based on being first(which is why i suggested the activation time decrease, 2 posts before this one), and then using the effects to your best benefit.

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I honestly don't know why it isn't:

Controller: Control/Buff
Defender: Buff/Ranged
Blaster: Ranged/Control

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Because ranged/control is flipping overpowered.

At the moment its ranged/utility, with some sets being utilized better.

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ranged utility?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...."wheeze" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

What utility? two sets have it. the rest are crud.

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Fire has..

Single Target Immob: good damage, short range, fast recharge.
Build up: +Acc, +DMG
Consume: AoE, +end
Burn: Short loc based AoE, fear(hey, it keeps things out of melee!)

Devices has

Single Target Immob: -fly, -rchg, fast recharge
Caltrops: Good slow, and FR type fear
Taser: Disorient
Targeting Drone: +acc
Smoke Gren: -acc, -visibility
Cloaking Dev: +stealth(invis strength), +def
Trip Mine: Triggered Knockback

Energy has

Single Target Knockback
Build up: See above
Conserve Power: halves cost of all powers
Power Boost: Double power secondary effects
Boost Rage: Doubles range
4 Single target disorients(TF, Bonesmasher, Energy Punch, Stun) of varying effectiveness

Elec has

Single target immob: decent damage, fast recharge, good -end
2 single target sleeps(havok punch/charged brawl) of varying effectiveness
Lightning Field: PBAoE -endurance
Build up
Lightning Clap: PBAoE knockdown, disorient
Thunderstrike: Disorient, knockback
Power Sink: PBAoE auto hit -end, self +end
Shocking Grasp: single target hold

Ice has

Single target immob: Good damage, fast rchg, -spd,-rchg
Chilling Embrace: PBAoE -spd, -rchg
Build Up
Ice Patch: PbAoE knockdown
Shiver: cone, -rchg,-spd
Freezing Touch: single target Hold
Frozen Aura: PBAoE sleep.

All 5 secondaries have utility, some have more than others, some have less, some work better with some builds (Frozen Aura works much better with the ice primary and doing single target damage only than it does with fire primary for instance[method is AoE Sleep group, then hold bosses with ice primary holds and ice secondary holds, then go to town, one minion at a time, while continueing to hold bosses or enemies missed by sleep, re-appling AoE sleep as nessesary])

There is utility in each of the sets, you just choose to ignore it.

IRT no one in paticular.

You know a really easy fix for most of the secondaries would be:

1. Reduce activation time of all melee attacks to 1.
2. Make all control powers ranged(short).
3. Add fear type effect to Chilling Embrace and Hot Feet(similar to Freezing Rain on test)