Mission Diffuculty & Reputation for Solo Play
By
Amberyl,
Posted on: 2005-01-22 19:16 in Player Guides
Wow this is some really really good stuff!!
Thank you for taking the time and effort. 
Only thing I've noticed is that I get the same mission bonus on Easy or Hard. Maybe this is broken or maybe I'm just plain blind.
Excellent post I can confirm that the final mission reward does not scale up which is disappointing. Watch being Invincible when your nearing the end of a story arc Invincible AV are more than a little challenging.
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Limitations of these results:
1) This does not include mission awards. I do not have data on how the slider affects the final mission award. The mission award will also affect XP/minute...for example, Rugged becomes even more inefficient.
When I finally finished the mission (for real) on Invincible, I got 2,000 XP and 2,000 INF.
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3) Please keep in mind that this only applies to solo play, AFAIK.
I'm not really sure how the slider settings interact between multiple players. The assumption is that it sets according to the leader...is this true?
If not, two people would need to do this fifteen times!!!
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Great info! The slider only affects mobs in the mission. The mission XP is the same for any difficulty, as noted by the above poster. This I have tested.
However, your comment about these results only applying to solo play appears to be a hole in the knowledge base. I did some searching last night, and couldn't find a good answer on the boards. A lot of speculation, but no testing.
To add more speculation: From my experience, it seems that the mission owner's slider determines the difficulty. THus, if you have a team with someone who is 2 levels below everyone else, they could crank up the difficulty to bring it more in line with the rest of the team.
Additionally, noone seems to know how TFs and Trials are affected by the difficulty slider. I found several posts saying they discovered the hard way that the difficulty is affected, but that doesn't provide meaningful insight into how. Is it the leader? The highest level person?
Additionally, there has been some discussion on the Victory boards that cranking up the difficulty is great for solo, duo, maybe even 3-4 players. However, most seem in agreement that once you get to 6 or higher, the debt rate takes a large jump.
I expect this is related to the general rule that anytime you had a 6+ team, missions would spawn +1 to the level they would have otherwise. Therefore, you've added difficulty with the slider, then the levels get bumped up again with 6+. +3/+4 enemies are doable in small doses. But if you have a large group (like when you have 6 people in a mission) they become deadly to most teams.
-Garrik
Taking into account my 2,000 XP mission reward:
.............................. Invincible...Unyielding...Rugged...Tenacious... Default
Total XP...................... 10367........ 8826......... 7456......... 7225......... 6405
XP Improvement....... +61.9%.... +37.8%.... +16.4%..... +12.8%
Time Taken................... 17.8.......... 16.2......... 13.9......... 11.8......... 10.8
XP/Minute w/bonus....... 581.9......... 545.5......... 536.4....... 613.1....... 592.5
XP/Min Improvement. -1.79%..... -7.94%..... -9.47%... +3.47%
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Additionally, noone seems to know how TFs and Trials are affected by the difficulty slider. I found several posts saying they discovered the hard way that the difficulty is affected, but that doesn't provide meaningful insight into how. Is it the leader? The highest level person?
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When you are in a TF if you click on the Mission tab you will see the TF set at Hard-Boiled, no matter what.
Unless there is a bug, the problem with TF's is the following:
1) People get 8 ppl and often not a good mix of AT's or experienced players
1a) With 8 ppl comes the 99.9% likelihood that all the people are not the same level
2) At 6 people the mission ramps up 1 level
3) With the current patch, bosses are already +1 level.
So you end up in a TF with bosses that are effectively deep purple to some people on the team...and with an 8-player TF, there are usually 2-4 bosses per spawn.
Even for the highest level player in the TF, the bosses will be purple (+2 colors for being a boss, then +1 for 8 players, and +1 for boss patch from Issue 3).
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I expect this is related to the general rule that anytime you had a 6+ team, missions would spawn +1 to the level they would have otherwise. Therefore, you've added difficulty with the slider, then the levels get bumped up again with 6+. +3/+4 enemies are doable in small doses. But if you have a large group (like when you have 6 people in a mission) they become deadly to most teams.
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4 is also a large bump in difficutly. 4 is when bosses become common in missions.
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When you are in a TF if you click on the Mission tab you will see the TF set at Hard-Boiled, no matter what.
Unless there is a bug, the problem with TF's is the following:
1) People get 8 ppl and often not a good mix of AT's or experienced players
1a) With 8 ppl comes the 99.9% likelihood that all the people are not the same level
2) At 6 people the mission ramps up 1 level
3) With the current patch, bosses are already +1 level.
So you end up in a TF with bosses that are effectively deep purple to some people on the team...and with an 8-player TF, there are usually 2-4 bosses per spawn.
Even for the highest level player in the TF, the bosses will be purple (+2 colors for being a boss, then +1 for 8 players, and +1 for boss patch from Issue 3).
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More excellent work. Interesting how the results look once you add in the mission XP bonus.
According to the group I was with for part ot the Striga TF last night, everyone saw their own difficulty when they looked at the mission tab during the TF. We were using Team Speak, so it was pretty easy to communicate, so I don't think there was any confusion. However, my own difficulty with that character was still at the default, so I couldn't confirm what others were seeing directly.
**edit - just confirmed this as I'm still on the TF. I changed my setting to unyielding and now my mission tab reflects that.
I do agreee with your assessment in general. In my case last night, it was 4 people from my SG, 3 random invites. So not the best assembled team. The TL, who was also the highest level, had his difficulty set to Unyielding. Doing Moonfire, with a team of 7, most of the baddies were 29-30. Most reports I've seen say the bad guys are 28-29 for this TF, so it seems to me that a team this size would generate 29-30s at the default level.
Since we were all 27 and under, however, it was pretty tough going. But I have yet to see a red name or some hard testing of slider vs. TF.
-Garrik
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When you are in a TF if you click on the Mission tab you will see the TF set at Hard-Boiled, no matter what.
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I can say that i've been on a TF on invincible. Maybe shard tf's dont count as real tf's.
Odd.. I had different results:
Maximizing you mission XP
On the other hand, you collected alot more numbers then I did
MISSION DIFFICULTY DOES AFFECT TRIALS.
I just jumped on a Respec Trial team. Our leader is set to Invincible. There are seven of us. I'm the highest level on the team at level 28, everybody else is between 24 and 27. We get to the Sgt. Clayton door mission.
It has spawned 32's and 33's. That is +4 and +5 to the highest member of the team. We died rather quickly.
-Jaguar 
Also - the mission window shows you *your* current difficulty. Not the leader's and not Hard Boiled.
Balance is not about making everybody the same. Balance is about making your strengths worth all of your weaknesses.
Just a note, for regular missions, the difficulty slider does not seem to be able to increase the levlel of certain villain groups beyond their normal regular level cap. That is, it doesnt seem to be able to make Sky Raider or Banished Pantheon missions spawn anything higher than 29, since that is their max level. I imagine the same results will occur with Tsoo, who cap at 29, and with Clockwork (cap at 18-20 aprox?)
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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When you are in a TF if you click on the Mission tab you will see the TF set at Hard-Boiled, no matter what.
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I can say that i've been on a TF on invincible. Maybe shard tf's dont count as real tf's.
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I think it shows (somewhat confusingly?) YOUR difficulty setting next to the mission.
I did the second (Freakshow) Respec the other day, after leaving the first door I noticed it said Invincible by the Mission and enquired about it. TF leader said they started it on Hard-Boiled. I run almost always at Invincible currently when doing missions with small teams/solo so it must have been my difficult level showing even though it doesn't affect the mission it's shown by.
I can also verify that the mission slider affects Trials. We were running the Freak respec and were fighting 42's the first mission. The leader was set to Hard Boiled. Leader line drops coming out of the first mission. Next guy in line heads and gets the second mission, the original leader logs back in and rejoins us but can't get the star back. We entered the mission to a sea of very pumped purple Freaks as the new leader was set on Invincibile. Surprisingly we can slowly manage the now +6 Freaks but it was an awesome pick-up team.
Needless to say we made sure the leader was set back to Hard Boiled for the reactor. 
This post would have been better if you had included no conclusions based on the character you were playing. Your opinion that Rugged is the worst, for example, is based on the specific character you are using.
Blaster fight differently than Tankers for example. Any per minute or effeciency numbers for one doesn't apply to the other.
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Just a note, for regular missions, the difficulty slider does not seem to be able to increase the levlel of certain villain groups beyond their normal regular level cap. That is, it doesnt seem to be able to make Sky Raider or Banished Pantheon missions spawn anything higher than 29, since that is their max level. I imagine the same results will occur with Tsoo, who cap at 29, and with Clockwork (cap at 18-20 aprox?)
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I can confirm this. Crey minions only scale to 45, Crey lieutenants and bosses to 44 (with some subsets having a lower cap). Occasionally with the mission on 44/Unyielding I'll see a group of three Crey agents who are still just 45 - they should be 46, but there aren't any stats for them that high.
--GF
Also, villain group plays a role. If you can drop a purple Carnie boss due to Invincible, more power to you.
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
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This post would have been better if you had included no conclusions based on the character you were playing. Your opinion that Rugged is the worst, for example, is based on the specific character you are using.
Blaster fight differently than Tankers for example. Any per minute or effeciency numbers for one doesn't apply to the other.
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Good point, could you redo this testing with your, Tanker, for example?
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This post would have been better if you had included no conclusions based on the character you were playing.
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Ignore that part, if you like. I do mention that problem to some extent in the "limitation" portion of my post.
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Your opinion that Rugged is the worst, for example, is based on the specific character you are using.
Blaster fight differently than Tankers for example. Any per minute or effeciency numbers for one doesn't apply to the other.
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Must disagree with you there. You said you just wanted numbers, not conclusions. Fair enough.
Rugged is the worst if you look at the numbers (ie., not my opinion).
Tenacious gives 5225 XP versus Rugged's 5456. That is a difference of about 4%. On the other hand, half of your Rugged mission will have +2 mobs. Tenacious will have none.
You are working much harder to gain 4% XP bonus. I don't care what your AT is--the reward is not commensurate with the risk and effort. No matter your build, AT, level of play, experience, computer quality, etc, it will take you longer to kill a mix of +2's and +1's than it will all +1's.
Rugged is the worst because every other option is better.
............... RUGGED...TENACIOUS
Total XP...... +23.9%..... +18.6%
Total Mobs... +17.4%..... same
# Spawns.... +24.1%..... -6.9%
Lone Mob..... +35.7%..... -28.6%
Two Mobs..... +23.1%..... +15.4%
Mob Level..... +0.64....... +0.44
............. Rugged...Tenacious... Default
Avg Level*..... +1.19....... +0.98....... +0.54
# of Spawns...... 36........... 27........... 29
1 Mob............... 19.......... 10.......... 14
2 Mobs............. 16.......... 15.......... 13
3 Mobs.............. 1............ 2............ 2
Total Mobs........ 54.......... 46.......... 46
Level +3........... 0............ 0............ 0
Level +2........... 20............ 0............ 0
Level +1............ 24.......... 45.......... 25
Level +0............ 0............ 4............ 21
Total XP......... 5456........ 5225........ 4405
Total INF........ 3784........ 3644........ 3076
Taking into account my 2,000 XP mission reward:
.............................. Rugged...Tenacious... Default
Total XP...................... 7456......... 7225......... 6405
XP Improvement....... +16.4%..... +12.8%
Darkness Eternal you might also want to check out Mantid's post:
Maximizing you mission XP
Tenacious, % Increase over Base: 30%
Rugged, % Increase over Base: 25%
Unyielding, % Increase over Base: 84%
Invincible, % Increase over Base: 67%
I expect that the level difference (26 v 36) is a significant factor in determining where the sweet spot is. I did some calculations the other day using data that I've found on the web, or researched, and it's fairily clear that (for minions) at levels 1-10 it's faster to go after even con opponents than it is to go after +1's, and that at level 15 it's usually faster to go after +1's than even cons. This is, not directly affected by AT but is affected by accuracy - so blasters, especially dev blasters with targetting drone, and scrappers will probably want to switch earlier than tanks or controllers with unslotted attacks.
There are, of course, mitigating factors such as the ability to actually handle +1's, potential higher efficiency on +0's (AoE anyone) and, potentially, extra defensive cost associated with fighting tougher opponents.
P.S. Regarding Methodology:
I collected HP data for MOB's of level 1 through 20, and assumed that a character can attack at an approximately constant rate. That means that to determine relative XP/minute, it's sufficient to calculate
(XP per MOb * chance to hit * damage factor)/(MOb HP)
The HP information was collected using a client during issue 3. The XP per MOb information is from a PDF file available on the web, and the to hit and damage factors are based on accsprd.xls.
Ariel - Thanks for all your effort in putting this together. I had just decided to crank up my slider, as my Hard-Boiled missions seem now excessively easy. Now I know what to set to!
Thank you for your kind words, but I don't want you dying on my account.
Please make sure you check out Mantid's thread (or my post 3 up above), too.
I'd say if you are closer to level 26, mine might be preferable, but if you are closer to 38, assume that his numbers are more applicable to your character.
Now that I'm 33, I'm having problems with Tenacious.
Check out this screenshot.
(Btw, there were 7 other mobs in the room, not pictured, as I killed them all to take that screen.)
It's not just this mission, it's every mission. I guess that means the numbers definitely shift as you move away from 26 (my data) to 38 (Mantid's data).
The info might need to be revamped due to Hard Boiled being replaced with Heroic. Heroic missions now no longer have *any* boss in them. If there is supposed to be a regular boss in the mission, it is now labeled a LT, so it has lower HP and damage then a boss, but he will retain the powers and abilities of the same boss. Elite Bosses and AVs should remain though.
In my limited experience on Heroic, I did not run into one single LT through several missions on Heroic other than the "end boss" LT.
I've already forgotten about most of you
Quick question:
Your numbers seem to indicate that the Rugged setting gives more mobs compared to the default setting? How was this tested?
Rugged is only supposed to increase the level of the mobs, not the amount. Running through level 40+ missions set at Rugged produces roughly the same amount of mobs throughout if I had been at the default setting, just at +1 or +2 to my level.
I've already forgotten about most of you
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Quick question:
Your numbers seem to indicate that the Rugged setting gives more mobs compared to the default setting? How was this tested?
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Read the OP...I ran the same mission 13 times. I logged every mob I fought.
Now, do my numbers jibe with what Cryptic says the slider does?
No, not necessarily.
Again, I was 26th level, and this was back when there were special rules at 25+ for bosses and stuff.
(Btw, my mission had no bosses on any of the settings in all 13 attempts.)
Unfortunately, the mission I picked may not have been the best for whatever reason. But it had a great looping map that you could kill everyone and end up back at the door, exit, visit hero corps guy who was only 500 yds away, reset, and reenter.
I also had maxed out my debt, so even doing the misssion 13 times only put me at half-level.
These numbers are not what I am seeing for Rugged and Tenacious at 33rd level..it is a whole other world.
I'm sorry about that. I suppose someday if you guys are nice to me, I'll run another mission 13 times for you and do all this again. I really might. I die alot with this character.
And that's why we love you!
Balance is not about making everybody the same. Balance is about making your strengths worth all of your weaknesses.
After finding myself in a couple of doomed Task Forces (but still trying!) as well as some nasty +9 purple Winter Lord battles (remember, the minions aren't treated as monsters), I found myself with over 30,000 debt.
I decided to test out the difficulty slider...extensively.
These tests were done using a 26th level Blaster in a "fresh" mission that required glowies to complete.
I defeated all the mobs in the misison 2 times "cold", then did the mission 5 times: once for each reputation level (in descending order). During these missions I took extensive notes. After reaching the bottom, I did the mission once more for general purposes.
I then did the missions in ascending order of difficulty/reputation and moved throughout the mission and attacked mobs in the fastest and most strategic manner possible. Over and over and over....
The following are the "bottom line" results, comparing slider levels to the base "hard-boiled" soon to be changed to Hero(ic?) according to Statesman.
.......... INVINCIBLE...UNYIELDING...RUGGED...TENACIOUS
Total XP...... +89.9%..... +55.0%..... +23.9%..... +18.6%
XP/minute.... +15.2%..... +3.53%.... -3.67%..... +8.80%
Total Mobs... +10.9%...... +6.5%..... +17.4%..... same
# Spawns.... +17.2%..... +6.9%..... +24.1%..... -6.9%
Lone Mob..... +35.7%..... +7.1%..... +35.7%..... -28.6%
Two Mobs..... same....... +7.7%..... +23.1%..... +15.4%
Three Mobs.... same....... same...... -50.0%..... same
Mob Level..... +1.95...... +1.38....... +0.64....... +0.44
Time........... +64.8%..... +49.7%.... +28.6%..... +9.0%
The following are a more detailed breakdown of the results:
............. Invincible...Unyielding...Rugged...Tenacious... Default
Avg Level*..... +2.49..... +1.92....... +1.19....... +0.98....... +0.54
# of Spawns...... 34.......... 31.......... 36........... 27........... 29
1 Mob............... 19.......... 15.......... 19.......... 10.......... 14
2 Mobs............. 13.......... 14.......... 16.......... 15.......... 13
3 Mobs.............. 2........... 2............ 1............ 2............ 2
Total Mobs........ 51.......... 49.......... 54.......... 46.......... 46
Level +3........... 25........... 0............ 0............ 0............ 0
Level +2........... 26.......... 45........... 20............ 0............ 0
Level +1............ 0........... 4............ 24.......... 45.......... 25
Level +0............ 0........... 0............ 0............ 4............ 21
Total XP......... 8367....... 6826........ 5456........ 5225........ 4405
Total INF........ 5823....... 4714........ 3784........ 3644........ 3076
Time Taken..... 17.83....... 16.18........ 13.90...... 11.79....... 10.81
XP/Minute....... 469.64..... 421.88..... 392.52..... 443.36..... 407.49
Inf/Minute....... 326.84..... 291.35..... 272.23..... 309.21..... 284.55
* Compared to hero.
NOTE: "Spawn" refers to a group of enemies such that if you agro one, you will agro them all.
MOB = Monster Or Beast, or Mobile (rarely), ie., one enemy. Not the same "mob" as used with mob rule, mob mentality, or mobsters
Level 26 hero.....XP.....INF
Mob Lvl 29.........187....131
Mob Lvl 28.........142.....98
Mob Lvl 27.........109.....76
Mob Lvl 26..........80......56
Thoughts/conclusions:
Tenacious: Perhaps the most efficient all-around. No one of 25th level or above, anywhere, of any AT, with any build, should be on Hard-Boiled when they could be on Tenacious, instead.
Below 25 (pre-SO) only the squishiest controllers and dedicated healers should be on Hard-Boiled...and even then, they shouldn't be soloing!
Rugged: This is obviously the worst selection possible. If you absolutely are convinced you should be at Rugged...you are wrong. Either go up one or down one step.
If you tend to do a lot of missions quickly, then drop down to Tenacious. You will do them just as quickly, but with greater reward.
If you do missions less frequently, then go for Unyielding.
Unyielding: This is the most inefficient method of improving your leveling after Rugged (go with Tenacious and do your missions fast, or go with Invincible, slow down, and rake in the XP).
The only reason you would be at this level is if you wanted more of a challenge but are not capable of killing red minions or +3 LT's.
That is because no +3's appear at this setting.
Invincible: If you have no problem with reds (+3's), this is the difficulty for you. Half of your enemies will gain 2 levels, the other half +3.
This will be impossible for several AT's and builds.
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Limitations of these results:
1) This does not include mission awards. I do not have data on how the slider affects the final mission award. The mission award will also affect XP/minute...for example, Rugged becomes even more inefficient.
When I finally finished the mission (for real) on Invincible, I got 2,000 XP and 2,000 INF.
2) I am a single-target blaster. I have no slotted AOE powers and rarely use them. When I do, it is because I am waiting on a single target recharge, most of the time.
These numbers will be great for a defender or scrapper, but if you are an AOE blaster, these results will not be in line with yours.
3) Please keep in mind that this only applies to solo play, AFAIK.
I'm not really sure how the slider settings interact between multiple players. The assumption is that it sets according to the leader...is this true?
If not, two people would need to do this fifteen times!!!
Player 1.....Player 2
Base..........Base
Base..........Tenacious
Base..........Rugged
Base..........Unyielding
Base..........Invincible
Tenacious...Tenacious
Tenacious...Rugged
Tenacious...Unyielding
Tenacious...Invincible
Rugged.......Rugged
Rugged.......Unyielding
Rugged.......Invincible
Unyielding...Unyielding
Unyielding...Invincible
Invincible....Invincible
The above could probably be done fairly quickly by doing the following:
Team a Lvl 50 with a Level 25 (full SO's and 6 slot Stamina). Get a good mission for the 25. SK the 25 up to 49. Then breeze through and record mob and spawn levels.
Unfortunately, after recording numbers of mobs, you would still need to do each of the missions again fifteen more times in order to get the XP/Minute figures.
And in order to make those numbers work, you would need the two players to be the same level...even after doing 15 missions!
Ariel