The REAL Statesman and Company

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Hiya..


See ya in Anaheim!

Tisirin

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Holy bajesus. Statesman and co. in Anaheim?! I MUST GO!

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Hiya..


See ya in Anaheim!

Tisirin

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Holy bajesus. Statesman and co. in Anaheim?! I MUST GO!

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So when's the bus coming to Scranton, PA?
... *looks around at the blank stares*...

Awwh C'mon!

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Hiya..


See ya in Anaheim!

Tisirin

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Holy bajesus. Statesman and co. in Anaheim?! I MUST GO!

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So when's the bus coming to Scranton, PA?
... *looks around at the blank stares*...

Awwh C'mon!

[/ QUOTE ]OK, I'll bite. Might the reference have something to to with 30,000 pounds of bananas?

Yeah, Ohio need more love.

Ok. Maybe I just need more love. But that really isn't the point now, is it?

I guess I've just become too jaded to the sort of things that have been going in this game now, but I just can't take Tisirin's statement about the devs reading the boards at face value.

I mean, c'mon. There's so many issues with the current powersets, and they're going to add 2 epics archetypes and an unknown number of epic power pools?

There's too many things that need to be addressed. Fire-type attacks need the DoT removed from them; in their place, there should be an accuracy debuff. Energy blast's knockback needs to get the same treatment as the Tankers got for their knockback. Blizzard needs an overhaul. Invulnerability as a Scrapper secondary needs something, it seems to me to be overpowered. Ice armor needs an overhaul, the stacking of armors is not going to help this set if the armors are not changed any.

Foremost, the devs need to learn to strike a balance between how much in the way of responses they give on these boards. I agree, they were responding far too much before; but now they've clammed up, only making an appearance to basically pat themselves on the back. This only makes them look even more out of touch with the game as it current stands then they do now. While they don't need to return to the level of responses they showed when the game first went live, they need to actually show that they're paying attention.

Finally, the point about the PCC is a valid one. Instead of basically throwing CuppaJo and her compatriots to the wolves as they've been doing so far, I feel a better use for these events would be to have an actual theme. One week would be balance issues within the archetypes, next week would be addressing major bugs, etc. Also, at least one dev needs to make an appearance, though not every week. Say once a month or so.

Just my two influence.

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You know, I wonder if you're a griefer in-game. Seems like you're just following me around and attacking every opinion I hold

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Heh. Imagine my surprise when I read the thread, and wondered why I was reading a PR puff piece, and saw your name! I wonder if you always accuse people of following you around when our only previous contact has been to post in one other person's thread?

And if these -- two -- opinions are 'every opinion you hold', why, you must be a sparkling conversationalist!

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If you'd read my last post... excuse me.. comprehended it...

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Fascinating: so you're the type of person that likes to bring up completely separate views into every contact you have with a person? That must come in handy in your line of work. Or is that what you meant when you said that for 21 years now, you've been a reader of people, an 'x-ray machine' I'd bet you consider yourself? (Hint: watch Cube. The cop in there makes a very interesting speech that's almost exactly like yours)

But, tell me, if you believe I hadn't read your post, how is it you think I was able to ask several questions that referenced your post?

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you'd have understood that I was making reference to criticism that is leveled without consideration

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Well, that was my first thought. But then, that's not actually what you *said*. I had to go back and re-read your post to make sure I'd read it correctly, because what you *actually* said was: "Some people have called me a fanboi. That's someone who rushes to defend without thought or justification. I met Statesman. He impressed me, and if I wasn't a fanboi before, I am now."
So you see, what you *said* was that you now *are* going to defend without thought or justification.
Since I can't believe that fanbois (and what a great use of the language that term is [note that I'm not blaming you for that]) are capable of seeing what they are, and since I've never before seen anyone admit to it, I can't quite believe that you'd be stupid enough to do this. Despite the evidence of your post that says exactly that.

So I figure you must have meant something else, despite what you said. That's why I asked for clarification of your purpose.

I'm terribly sorry if I went too fast for you there: without crowing, I've been in a line of business for 25 years that offers a unique perspective on reading (and comprehending) than most people gather in a lifetime.

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However, I do have enough ability to get a good feel. You can take that or leave it. I have a funny feeling you'll prefer to leave it.

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<grin> Challenge accepted. Hey, does that mean that you lose, since your 'funny feeling' was wrong? Let's take your statement at face value, and completely accept that you do have enough ability to get a good feel. (I'm certain that everyone here has heard plenty about the honesty, integrity, and infallibility of Texan Police Sergeants to back this up).

Are you suggesting that if you speak to someone whom you believed before you met them were doing a good job and providing you with entertainment you enjoyed, that two things must then happen: 1) that in future, they will never deviate from being the same honest, upright citizens they were when you met them, and 2) that the posts that claim a flaw, bug, balance issue, or anything that makes CoH less than 100% perfect, must be imagining a conspiracy theory?

This is what you said in your post: I do not believe that this is what you *meant*, because I do not believe that you are stupid.

All banter aside -- and I only really do this with people that amuse me, it's not malicious -- I tried to ask some genuine questions, but so far, all you've done is to shout people down that didn't previously agree with you, and claim 'hijack' when a single post that talks about one facet of your argument is made. Come on, lighten up and try to see that other people may actually have a view point that isn't yours, but is equally valid.

Sorry for the lucidity break folks: normal service now resumes.

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It's easy to be disrespectful and rude when you're on the other end of a monitor.

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Is that actually what you feel I'm doing? Does disagreeing with you really make you feel that people are being disrespectful and rude? After 21 years, your line of work must be great fun.

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I find that many people tend to be more open-minded and understanding of people that have a face.

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I'm certain you're correct. If that was the sole intent of your post, you might have done us all a favour and said that to begin with, and then we could have got back to whatever we were doing before...

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If someone proves themself unworthy of respect, then I'll typically support whatever they deserve.

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Oooh, that's a fascinating statement. I bet your analyst *loves* you. So according to that line, there *are* people that are 'unworthy' of respect, yes? Even basic, human rights respect? Who decides who it is? You? That's not scary at all...

And who decides what they 'deserve'...? You again? Dang, you'd have to be pretty near infallible to determine that.

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I just tend to think many people on this board attack simply because they're anonymous and feel safe tossing respect out the tubes.

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And I tend to think that many people simply have no concept of the words they utter, and must resort to hiding behind personal attacks.

Look, I'm sure you're a decent guy. I get a little nervous twitch when anyone -- anyone, including me -- tries to say that because they've been doing something for a long time, it means that they must be correct.

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And, no, I wasn't crowing at all. But you're welcome to see it as such.

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Oh, ok. Glad to get that clarified.

Karon

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Paranoid and defensive much, Karon?

(They should warn people about tin-foil poisoning.)

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That's what they all say about me :-)

BST, no, I was being serious. The OP made some statements that I can't possibly accept as being intentional: saying that he's been accused of being a fanboi, telling us what a fanboi does (!), and then saying that he is a fanboi now, is surely not the intended meaning, but that is what he *said*.

Having discarded that meaning as being the intent, the rest of the post seemed to be just a PR job, and I couldn't figure why anyone would post just that. So I asked.

Yes, I asked in my usual flippant manner, but really, that's not personal. That's just the way I am at the moment. I don't believe that makes the post less valid.

Karon

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blah blah some old tosh, blah blah

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The simple matter is that CoH isnt Perfect.

Claiming to be a FanBoi after being starstruck leads one to conclude that the '21 years' experience must be in dog years...

<edited to remove a very funny, but slightly harsh joke>

The first time I had met Stateman was totally unxpected. It was the E3 expo in 2002, the year prior in 2001 I had set up a meeting (Behind EA's private rooms of all places) with Richard Garriott as a player luncheon. (Back when I was more involved with mmp games, I don't have a much time now unfortunately) That was a total hit, so the next year Garriott and Jake Song invited us to go to their new digs at E3.

This was a partitioned meeting space stuck in the back of a meeting room just outside the West Hall at E3. We were sitting around waiting for Garriot, and lo and behond they said why don't you go and talk to these guys who are doing a Superhero game they have a few seats open. We walk in a few other people and press types were there, Stateman was sitting there--i don't remember much--- the game caught me so offguard I didn't know what to think at the time. And they started talking about what they were doing.

And showing some things as well. I can't remember much about it, but I do remember being infinitely impressed with Stateman (There was another with him there too, but I apologize I cannot recall who) I wound up being more impressed than anything else at the show for pure concept. But I had seen how other superhero games (single player) had tried to come along and fail miserably so I wasn't expecting much.

I was more impressed with CoH then than I was L2 (they were also showing an early version there too) and I honestly think the game is more interesting to me than Tabula Rasa too... despite the Garriott connection.

I so wanted to say to stateman at E3 this year (I was there, awesome booth, got a tshirt) and say that his game was better than the rest at the NCSoft booth. But I wanted to wait. It still is the best. They are genuine, I applied for a job at Cryptic back in August mainly because of this (I'm mainly an apps/tool/gui programmer as a full time job). '

The main posters opinion of them is seconded. The only thing that scares me is that they get too big and lose track in the noise of creating a good game.

The CoH devs are my favorite devs in any MMO I have ever played. They listen to the people and help them out when needed. Statesman says if you PM him with a problem in a couple sentances or less he will respond. I did that once and he did infact respond. Much love for the CoH devs.

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Hiya..


See ya in Anaheim!

Tisirin

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Holy bajesus. Statesman and co. in Anaheim?! I MUST GO!

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So when's the bus coming to Scranton, PA?
... *looks around at the blank stares*...

Awwh C'mon!

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Yea cmon show some love to all the heroes in PA. ;P. Anyone have a spare jetpack I can use?

Archimedes, thanks for the post. While I don't necessarily agree with all of it, your points are well made and totally without any snide or sarcastic aspersions or personal attacks against the OP (in this case, myself).

That said, I am beginning to have a much greater understanding of the phrase "No good deed goes unpunished."

Rather than continue this battle of wills between myself and a couple of others who could learn a lot from Archimedes' style, I decided to re-write my original post. Realizing that anything I said could be twisted and taken out of context against me, I made notes. On reading them, I just decided that I'd post as is. So, without further adieu...

"I've been accused by more than my share of... CoH critics... of being what they term a "Fanboi." Ack! Dump that reference immediately! Instead of seeing this as enthusiastic metaphor, they're going to use this as a means of justifying the negation of any valid point you make. Based on what I understand, that means that I'm supposedly someone that will come to the defense of Statesman and the other CoH powers that be, developers, and so on under any circumstances, without thought. A mind-numbed puppet of some kind, loyal to the game creators through thick and thin. You planted the seed, stupid. That's exactly what they'll claim you are by writing this post.

While that just isn't right, How about just telling them what you do. Maybe that'll give you some credibility. No, it's in your profile if they cared to look, and they'd probably choose to dislike your opinions even more because of it. Maybe you should use a specific where you disagreed with the fact that the developers did not respond to a thread, such as the recent Christopher Reeve mega-thread. Oh, no, wait... Don't bring that one up. You were being positive on that one, too. More fodder for the detractors there, kinda like the halloween thing. I believe I recognize the efforts and the intent behind the creation of this game and its development and I'm quite willing to give the benefit of the doubt and think the best because of that. If that makes me a Fanboi, fine by me. There's that 'fanboi' reference again, you idiot. Talk about ammo. Just say that you realize they aren't perfect, since no one but a couple of the detractors are, and that you try to think that the benefit of the doubt is in order. Wait... you've said that, half a dozen times.

That said, I just got back from the Wizard World Convention in Arlington, Texas. While there, I met "Statesman" and several of the other employees that bring us this game. I can tell you something right now. If I wasn't a Fanboi before, I am now. You fool!

Putting a face to the names would be a mind-changer for even the most die-hard critic, especially THESE faces. I spent a large part of the convention just hanging at their booth, talking, discussing, and even joining in some of the explanation to people that hadn't played the game.

These people are genuine, folks. They have nothing but the best interest of us, the CoH gamers, at heart, and they are "just good folks." They do pay attention, to us, these boards, and our thoughts, concerns and ideas. I was very surprised at just how much they knew about what's going on in these threads, and just how what some of what is said affects them. Give specifics. Mention the threads they brought up, and exactly how what they said convinced you that they were on top of things. No, why bother? The people that understand your point don't need it. The others will take sometihng else out of context or ignore it.

I've read threads where people have accused Statesman and company of lying, deceiving, misleading, or worse, and I can say with much certainty that they don't lie to us. They don't deceive us. They don't deliberately mislead us. They do try to make this the best game, for the most people that they can. They may not always please everyone, but if they don't, it's not out of some evil malice, or any kind of corporate greed. Careful here, while based on good reasoning, it's your opinion and they'll eat you up on this. Oh, and watch the terminology, they'll use it against you even when it has no valid reason except to jab.

I've given my kudos before, and I'm giving kudos again. We're I not a believer, this convention would have made me one. I just wish more of you could have been there. Keep in mind that you sound like a cheerleeder. If you'd intersperse some negative and nasty things about them in between the good stuff you probably won't be accused of being a PR plant. You know, Dal, why don't you just retract the post. If you'd wanted to be personally attacked for an honest, if overly Mary Poppinsish opinion, you could get into politics."

So there you have it. I take it all back. Those of you that see my point in context didn't need to see me type it. The rest, fortunately a minority, wouldn't want to get it if they could.

Note to self: No more original posts. Your hair is grey enough as it is.

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Note to self: No more original posts. Your hair is grey enough as it is.

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Well, I can agree with the first part, but I must admit to not wanting to know about the second part.

Looks like it's a Win / Win to me

Alright, I'm up for a neutral rephrasing.

I believe that the devs have done an excellent job with CoH.
I would be proud to have written this game myself.

Sometimes, however, I believe they make mistakes. Apart from balance issues, which are notoriously difficult to get right because the playing community don't generally have access to all the information and the devs don't generally experience the frustration of playing, the devs have, on occasion, slipped up.

For me, in my experience here and with many other MMOs not to mention having played virtually every game ever made, the worst mistake they have made is in the area of hype, a la the Halloween event, for which another thread exists. I only mention it here so you have a reference that I am talking about a specific thing, rather than a vague concept.

Is that a big mistake? No.
Is that something to ruin my game experience? No.
Will I continue to play and enjoy the game? Absolutely.

But, and this is where I came in, I think that people that blame the devs as intentionally breaking the game, are very, very few and far between. Every flame I've seen on here says that the devs have missed a facet: or that they have made the wrong choice between elements.

Hence, I think the OP was stating the obvious, and didn't really add anything new except his own personal meeting.

(Granted, this is now that we've removed any contentious phrases from both his and my posts).

Can you understand why I thought that your post had no real purpose? Or why I thought that any purpose you might have had, had nothing to back it up?

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Maybe you should use a specific where you disagreed with the fact that the developers did not respond to a thread, such as the recent Christopher Reeve mega-thread.

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Your disagreeing with the devs doesn't really add anything to whether people think the devs are breaking things deliberately though, does it? It *does* add to the evidence against you being a fanboi, but as you were the only one that said that, it still seems somewhat redundant.

As for the CR thread: well, CR was my Hero too, and while I wish the devs could have done something, I understand the complexities behind licensing, copyright, and Paramount's lawyers, should they do anything. I don't believe that anyone who has a reasonable degree of understanding can blame the devs for that one either.

Karon

I'ver only been playing CoH for about 2 months and I'm having a blast. That said, I would much rather see time and resources devoted to balancing the current game rather than adding in epic "stuff". My first character, before I knew much about the game, was a Mind/Emp controller. Now, of course, I can see that Mind, while not unplayable, is woefully underpowered compared to the other controller primaries. Once the epic At's come out, you'll see Mind even less. The reason for this is that to get to level 50 quickly, and qualify for epic characters, players will be even more inclined to cookie-cutter builds. I stopped playing ny ind controller for two reasons. One, no one would ever invite him to a team (or would kick him once the did). Two, soloing was possible, but not very (and in any case was so slow and plodding as to be practically unworkable). Forget ever using him to get to level 50.

For the most part, I think the devs do a great job and, for the most part, I'm enjoying playing the game. But making an expansion that is dependant on acheiving a certain level requires that all At's have the opportunity to get to that level equally; and right now, that just isn't the case.

Right now, some At's are hard to team and hard to solo. And that equals "no fun". Right now, my Mind/Emp is "no fun". I'm far more concerned about that that I am about epic AT's or having fog in the game.

Kudos to the devs for making a very interesting and unique game. But there are right and wrong ways to do everything. I think making epic AT's when the basic ones are wacked out is a wrong way. IMHO. YMMV.

Oh, and just to make it easier for people to flame me:

You're all....uhm....er....oafs. Yeah, that's it. And the horse you rode in on.


SlyOne

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Alright, I'm up for a neutral rephrasing...

[/ QUOTE ]And a fine job we both seem to have done, too. I had thought about addressing a couple of specifics in your latest post, but I appreciate the effort so much that I hate to risk losing mutually-gained ground.

Thanks for meeting me part of the way. I'll try not to be so Polly Annaish in the future.

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...See ya in Anaheim!

Tisirin

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Hey - when are you guys coming to NYC?

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Thanks for meeting me part of the way. I'll try not to be so Polly Annaish in the future.

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errrr...

You people make me sick !

Sick do you hear !

NEVER, have I seen two forum members agree that they have different yet equally valid opinions !

What sort of an example is this ?

I insist that we continue to flame and insult each other over minor issues and never admit to being anything other than all knowing god-like...errr...gods









does anyone have any pie ?

I love this game. Been playing it for a number of months now. I really don't see the balance issues that everyone else seems to claim exist. I think the Devs have done a great job. Just wanted to thank the OP for helping me believe that a Dev will actually read this and know that their effort is appreciated. I'm one of the many that probably read, but don't often post due to the flames and general disrespect that is so rampant on these boards. Looking forward to Epic AT's and a difficulty slider that I can crank up (missions are too easy at +1).

Thank you for making an awesome game, keep up the great work.

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I had thought about addressing a couple of specifics in your latest post

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If there is anything to be added to the thread, please do: we can always flame the other people together then :-)

If we can team up to beat the head of the Hydra, we can do this :-)

Karon

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does anyone have any pie ?

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I like pie! You're not allowed to!

Err... oaf!

Karon

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If there is anything to be added to the thread, please do: we can always flame the other people together then...

[/ QUOTE ]Um... O.K., but remember, you told me I could.

What really gets to me is the complete level of miscommunication that went on to start out with, for a variety of reasons, on both parts. Particularly after reading your last post, it really seems as if we're basically in agreement. That happens somewhat regularly around here, too. Yet another downside of electronically typed communication.

Anyway... and this will definitely get a "Huh!?" from folks since it might appear on its face to be contrary to what I've been saying... I really think that the devs should have taken at least a moment to respond - in some way - to the Reeve thread. Just in terms of sheer volume and participation, much of the argument and repetetive discussion/flaming could have been avoided with a simple reply of some kind. I'm not blaming them at all. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue wasn't dead, but just being worked on. But that was one instance where I think they may have dropped a communications ball.

Ok, now I'm arguing against myself. Or am I? I'm so confused...

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Um... O.K., but remember, you told me I could.

[/ QUOTE ]<grin> No worries, we can take it :-)

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Particularly after reading your last post, it really seems as if we're basically in agreement.

[/ QUOTE ]I think we are in agreement about the main issue, but I think it took a little while to clarify what that issue was. Not helped by our antagonistic stances :-)

But, don't misunderstand: I think you were just stating the obvious, and I don't think there was any need to do so since I don't think you added anything. So while I agree that the devs have good intentions, I still think there was no point in starting this thread to say that. I hope you understand that I don't mean that in a deragatory way: and of course, I'm happy to be disagreed with.

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That happens somewhat regularly around here, too. Yet another downside of electronically typed communication.

[/ QUOTE ]Absolutely. But wouldn't it have been worse if we'd gotten into this F2F? Since I'm not an American, and I don't live in the US, you have the advantage over me with your right to bear arms :-)

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I really think that the devs should have taken at least a moment to respond - in some way - to the Reeve thread.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, this is OT, but again, I can't say I'm surprised. What could they have said that wouldn't have brought potential legal trouble around their heads?
I'm certain that everyone in the dev team felt his loss as much as the rest of us did, but any official recognition could have been conceived by lawyers as an attempt to link to and thereby profit from, a character to whom CoH has no rights.

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In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue wasn't dead, but just being worked on.

[/ QUOTE ]<smile> It would be nice if it were being worked on.

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But that was one instance where I think they may have dropped a communications ball.

Ok, now I'm arguing against myself. Or am I? I'm so confused...

[/ QUOTE ]No, I don't think you are arguing against yourself. If your point was that the devs aren't doing this maliciously, then nothing you've said here contradicts that.

Karon

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I think we are in agreement about the main issue, but I think it took a little while to clarify what that issue was. Not helped by our antagonistic stances :-)

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I agree.

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But, don't misunderstand: I think you were just stating the obvious, and I don't think there was any need to do so since I don't think you added anything. So while I agree that the devs have good intentions, I still think there was no point in starting this thread to say that.

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What might be obvious to you and me isn't necessarily obvious to a lot of people that post on these boards. There are many people that have flamed, and probably will flame the devs when you and I are both likely to think it's out of line.

I wasn't really trying to add anything new. Like so many other issues brought up on these boards more than once, I was just trying to reinforce a point with a little personal observation.

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I hope you understand that I don't mean that in a deragatory way: and of course, I'm happy to be disagreed with.

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Yep, understood completely. I bet everyone else is happy we're happy, too.

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Absolutely. But wouldn't it have been worse if we'd gotten into this F2F? Since I'm not an American, and I don't live in the US, you have the advantage over me with your right to bear arms :-)

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I don't think it would have been worse. I hold my own when engaged in text-based banter, but I'm much better in person. I think we'd have worked through our miscommunication very easily in person, if we'd have had it at all. And, while I am an American, and as I pointed out elsewhere I don't necessarily hold to everything that our country, and our current administration, hold to. My occupation aside, I much prefer using my wit and wisdom over any physical force.

My guess is that we'd get along swimmingly.

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Alright, I'm up for a neutral rephrasing.

I believe that the devs have done an excellent job with CoH.
I would be proud to have written this game myself.

Sometimes, however, I believe they make mistakes. Apart from balance issues, which are notoriously difficult to get right because the playing community don't generally have access to all the information and the devs don't generally experience the frustration of playing, the devs have, on occasion, slipped up.

For me, in my experience here and with many other MMOs not to mention having played virtually every game ever made, the worst mistake they have made is in the area of hype, a la the Halloween event, for which another thread exists. I only mention it here so you have a reference that I am talking about a specific thing, rather than a vague concept.

Is that a big mistake? No.
Is that something to ruin my game experience? No.
Will I continue to play and enjoy the game? Absolutely.

But, and this is where I came in, I think that people that blame the devs as intentionally breaking the game, are very, very few and far between. Every flame I've seen on here says that the devs have missed a facet: or that they have made the wrong choice between elements.

Hence, I think the OP was stating the obvious, and didn't really add anything new except his own personal meeting.

(Granted, this is now that we've removed any contentious phrases from both his and my posts).

Can you understand why I thought that your post had no real purpose? Or why I thought that any purpose you might have had, had nothing to back it up?

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Maybe you should use a specific where you disagreed with the fact that the developers did not respond to a thread, such as the recent Christopher Reeve mega-thread.

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Your disagreeing with the devs doesn't really add anything to whether people think the devs are breaking things deliberately though, does it? It *does* add to the evidence against you being a fanboi, but as you were the only one that said that, it still seems somewhat redundant.

As for the CR thread: well, CR was my Hero too, and while I wish the devs could have done something, I understand the complexities behind licensing, copyright, and Paramount's lawyers, should they do anything. I don't believe that anyone who has a reasonable degree of understanding can blame the devs for that one either.

Karon

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Thank you, Karon, for toning down your responses and making some reasonable and insightful comments. My entire concern with your original post was that the OP was never looking for opinions on the job the devs were doing. He was asking if others had had the opportunity to meet them and what they thought of them after pressing the actual flesh. I think you caught him a bit off guard with your criticisms.

No surprise there. Most posters have developed a thin skin because of trolls and flamers who simply launch salvos for fun. I mistakenly took you for one of those people, for which I do apologize.

Have fun!

Capt. Impervious lvl 41 invul/ss tank

Pinnacle