Initiating battle: a guide for the large team tank

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1. About this guide
2. Why this guide?
3. Leading a lare group
3.1 The group experience
3.2 Be a leader
3.2.1 Form the group
3.2.2 Be the team leader
3.2.3 Be the highest member
3.3 But... my experience??
4. Technics
4.1 Charging
4.2 Herding
4.3 Pulling
4.3.1 Out-of-view pulling
5. Ranged Tanking
6. Conclusion


1. About this guide:
This guide is in fact a few technics and tactics that will help a tanker develop a good safe strategy to initiate attacks. It is build for the tanker that plays in large groups, so 6 to 8 player teams.
I myself have a lvl 50 tank, and leveled in large groups using these methods. It's based on my personal experience, so feel free to add your own.

2. Why this guide?
The role of a tanker. A controversial subject. But in my eye, the tanker does one of the most important thing in CoH: he starts the fight.
Oh sure, when there is 3 minions, it's not really hard to attack. Anyone can take on little groups of bad guy. But when you face something like this:
Ruularu Cave
you better have a plan.

3. Leading a large group
3.1 The group experience
Why play in 6+ teams? Well, CoH is a very different game solo, in small teams, or in large teams. Once you are in a large team, the game dynamic really changes. The controller shines, the tanker has a role. Ever felt dumb as a defender in a duo where you kill spawns of 4 minions and no one needs healing? Try the large team experience. It really puts the edge back in the game.
Of course, getting a group is not always easy, but by following these steps, you will make groups fast. Also, get in a SG that offers a large pool of people that group. Access to a pool of player is pretty much the only use right now for SGs, so make use of it!

3.2 Be a leader:
6+ teams NEED a leader. A guy in front, if you will. Many players, not used to large teams, will try to pull, walk ahead, etc...
Now, to apply the battle-starting technics in this guide, the team must follow you. No trigger happy blaster, no over-confidant controller, no super-speed phaser scout. A wrong aggro can mean death to all!!
Should you, the tank, lead? Of course! You can take the heat, you can survive a retreat, an ambush, you got the most HPs. I have alts, of all ATs, and it always amaze me to see tankers with no initiative. They walk behind blaster, and expect defenders to pull. Get a grip man, you are a tank!
Here are tips to assess your autority:

3.2.1 Form the group
A no-brainer. If you make the group, and make the invites, well, people get the idea that it's your group. They are in because of YOU, and tend to listen up. Also gets you the leader spot.

3.2.2 Be the team leader
If you didn't form the group, suggest to get the leadership. Why? Because the leader appears as a star on the navigator. It will help your team follow you around large missions like open outdoors.

3.2.3 Be the highest member
Always be the highest level. I know some are wincing already: if you are highest, you get bad exp, right?
Well, yes, of course, you don't get as much as the guy that fight +5 mobs. But overall, it helps a lot, and prevent many many deaths, including yours. Never forget: not having debts is still the best XP around.
How does it help? Well, first of all, it helps form the group. If, at lvl 35, you invite some lvl 33, you have a LOT more chance of finding members then if you invite 37s... People like exp, and the prospect of grouping with a higher level is always welcomed.
So, at 35, you get a 34, 2 x 33, and a 32. Then eveyone gets a SK, so you have a nice, quick 8 men team of 35,34 (sk), 34, 33 (sk), 33, 33, 32(sk), 32.
From then, you are guaranteed to be leader. Why? Because mobs in your mission will be 36, so yellow minions. Meanwhile, most of the group sees an ocean of reds with purple bosses. They won't feel like pulling at all and will be very very glad to have you in front.
Finaly, beeing the highest level possible VS mobs means more success at landing attacks and taunts, insuring a better aggro on you.
So, you made the team, you are leader, and you are the big guy. You are set.

3.3 But, my experience?
Will beeing always highest nerf your XP? No.
Oh, sure, tankers can tank grape mobs. But by tanking very large amount of white-yellow minions, with tons of LTs and Boss, you stay rather SAFE. Tanking yellows is easy for a tank. So you don't die. So no debt. And, you also kill fast.

It's great XP. In my 40s, an 8-man mission gave me between 0.5 to 1.5 bubbles. That means you won't run out of missions.
Also, you can even do lower people's missions. I remember when i was 48, we did a mission for my 46 friend. Because we were 8, mobs were 47 and 48 (blue and white). But lord, was there a lot of them. It was crazy. Crazy but safe, since they were blue. We completly trashed the place, and i ended up with 0.75 bubbles. Not bad at all for a lower level mission.

4. Technics
These are technics i use depending on spawns. I like to have macros that say "chargin", "pulling" or "herding" so my group knows what i'm about to do.

4.1 Charging
The no-brainer. You go in and charge. Good when mobs are all together, in closed space. It is easy to hold aggro. Make sure you controller is quick to follow behind, cause after the initial wave, you want him to lay the hold.

4.2 Herding
Charging won't always work. Here is an exemple:
Circle of many many thorns
You will notice, in that pic, that there is a second wave of Behemoths behind the first one. If you run in, that second group will aggro. Now, provoke or AoEs only cover one group. If your group charges after you, some people are gona get aggro.
So you need time to gather mobs up, herd them. So, you ask the group to stay back. Attack the first group, then the second, etc..., and once you have all aggro, then they can come and kill.

But getting aggro is not everything in herding. If you just go around getting aggro, you will end up in a situation like this:
Freaks blasting from range

That is, even if you have aggro, mobs will still use their ranged attacks, thus making it hard for you to KEEP that aggro.
The trick is to run out of view. After initially provoking/damaging the mobs, run out of their attack line. This way, they will have to close the gap to attack you, ending bunched up in a little package, like this:
Small Herd

You can thus turn this:
PP room
into this:
PP herd

Now, make sure you team is hidden while you herd, or they will get some aggro!

4.3 Pulling
Now, some mobs can't be herd. Maybe they hold. Maybe they slow you with caltrops. Maybe they sap all your end.
Look at this spawn of Malta Operatives...
Too many Sappers to shake a stick at
They are all too close for a charge, because then the others in the back will attack. Herding is really not an option with Maltas, not with all the sappers in this shot.

Pulling is the answer. Using Taunt, pick a mob, taunt it, and then HIDE, behind a rock, a wall, a tree, whatever. The result is simple, the spawn will gather to you, away from the adds. Consider it a small herd.
The hiding is very important. If you don't hide, then they will just range attack. Taunt, hide, and once they come, get aggro. Simple.

4.3.1 Out-of-view Pulling
This is a special technic using the queued attack system to pull. Basically, you jump, taunt in mid air, and land out-of view. Result? You will perform your taunt from out of view, landing the perfect pull, since you get no reply.

Take this room:
Nemesis Festival
Let's say you want to pull it. Because you think the group in the back will follow, or maybe you anticipate mobs dropping from the second floor.
You can target a Nemesis, and jump, aiming for the little corner in the wall. While in the air, TAUNT! You will attack as you land, out of view, get aggro, and have all the nemesis come in a small little package to you.

5. Ranged Tanking A special technic for weaker tanks (fire, ice) or if you group is scrapper heavy, to tank Archevillains. Some archevillain have really nasty melee attacks. Or deadly AoEs. I've seen so many scrappers die to Nova, for exemple.
To keep the group safe, stay at range, and spam taunt. Taunt makes no accuracy check, so it's a guaranteed aggro. Most of the time, the AV will reply with a ranged attack, usually a lot weaker (like Battlemaiden's crossbow instead of her deadly-cornhole-drilling-pike). Using this technic, you kinda "lock-down" the AV in range, on YOU, letting all scrapper/blasters kill in peace, without fear of melee AoEs.

Remeber, the ranged attacks are often also AoEs, so the team must stay away from you. Scappers can stay behind the AV, to avoid cone attacks.
Here is a setting exemple:
Ranged Tanking
As you see, i got aggro and the Av attacks me, while 2 scrappers are safely kicking it's butt.

6. Conclusion
The tanker is a fun AT, specially in large team. You can be a rock that people will follow, that unkillable hero. Using these technics, you can control how battles start, which is a big step toward wining them.

Feel free to add new technics, comments, critics or anything really.
English is not my first language, please, point-out mistakes and typos so i can edit them!

Super-Hero, lvl 50 fire/ice tanker, Justice.

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Great guide, Venarr! Makes me want to rush home and play my tank! Now that I know a lot more about getting out of Line of Sight for a pull or herd, I feel like my INV tanker might be fun to play again!

Excellent guide. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Minor nitpick:

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3. Leading a lare group


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Oh well, post too old to be edited, hehe.
Thanks for pointing that out still.

Excellent Ven!!! I sometimes even forget about the jump/taunt trick. Nicely stated approach that should help some of the younger tankers out there get a good feeling for their AT and expectations.

Used the go behind a wall thing to get ranged badguys to bunch up. Worked pretty well and let the Fire Fire blaster on our team really devestate them.

Venarr, terrific post, excellent work with including all the pics as examples. I have a lowly level 6 Fire / Ice tank that I just started playing here and there. I am a "root for the underdog" kinda person and always felt for tankers when they are called useless when being compared to scrappers. So I rolled up Frostfyre so I can find out for myself. So far she is fun to play, and your techniques will help a lot with the learning curve of playing a tanker properly.
When I play a tank, I really want to feel like I fill a unique roll in the group, not just be a version of a scrapper or vice versa. Looking forward to the new challenge.

Great Job!

By the way, could I get your opinion of my choice for a Fire / Ice tanker? I took those pools because I like the look of the power sets. I think they are awesome. I noted your comment on Fire and Ice tanks being weaker thaan their counterparts. How much does this effect my ability to tank? Have I made a good choice with my power sets?

Thanks again!

Another pulling technique that you can do that is even safer is to go fishing for badguys with TP foe and a high perch. Pun intended.
If you miss? no big deal. They can't get to you. Thin the herd before you attack. Fishing is handy for thinning in the early levels.
TP Foe in the later levels is ideal for INV tankers with invincibility when surrounded by a group of baddies. You won't miss because of the accuracy boost and you won't get hit much. If you are rooted with Unyielding stance you can still gather enemies from far away without risking aggro transfer to your team. The ideal team-oriented tanker would have Taunt, TP Foe, and Provoke. (And maybe invoke panic when they release issue 3)

Yes, i love teleport foe. But most tanker are strecth for power pools. But for a tanker that picks teleport for the obvious US issue, then yes, TP foe makes a good pull from safety.

I really like your guide. Particularly the parts about how to form a group and define your role in it. While my tank(fire/em) might not have the durability of some other tanks I still think it is quite workable. I also am planning on picking up teleport foe as a ranged no LOS taunt, a herd thinner, and as a perequisite to my favorite travel power. Your guide kind of makes me want to get back on my tank and get him up a few levels.

This is exactly what I do!
All you low level tanks, you should listen to what he says... this is what you should model / will become...
if you are lvl 30+ you should know this by or your gut feeling should tell you this is that thing that has eluded you and that you were about to put together... if not you are really thick.... and go get provoke people

Felicitation, bonne job!

Thanks Venaar. Very well writen. My only comment is ( Im new to CoH ) why dont Blasters Single pull with Snipe? or some such attack?

The few groups I have lead have done this. We've single pulled mobs until the enemy becomes an obviously lesser target.

Thank you in advance.

As you'll advance in the game AoE attacks become more prominant... and having the Tanker bring all the ennemies together around him will let you guys move forward allot faster since you can destroy them all at the same time...

It's also much safer since the tank is built for this type of work and since he already has the aggro... you dont really risk having the mobs come after you... He takes less damage... his provoke is more effective since it too is an AoE... it's only one person to heal so easier on the defender... even controller holds work better ...

That said... there are other ways to go about it, this is just how to make the most of having the tanker in the group... how best to use him... if you dont have one then controller holds are fine... or pulling... or traps... but not as efficient if you are a Fire or Energy blaster

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By the way, could I get your opinion of my choice for a Fire / Ice tanker? I took those pools because I like the look of the power sets. I think they are awesome. I noted your comment on Fire and Ice tanks being weaker thaan their counterparts. How much does this effect my ability to tank? Have I made a good choice with my power sets?

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I think the "weaker" comment was in terms of pure defense, and was only meant to apply to primary pools. Invulnerability tanks are (currently) the king of defense, with huge resistance and defense. Stone is next best, with some resistance and huge defense. Ice tanks get good defense, though not as good as stone, but very little in the way of resistance. Fire gets decent resistance, though not anywhere near Invuln, but little defense.

Offensive capabilities run pretty much the opposite. Fire gets Burn, hands down the best tanker primary damage power, plus Blazing Aura, with minor damage. Ice gets Icicles and Stone gets Mud Pots, both minor damage powers. And Invuln gets - no damage at all.

So as a Fire tanker, you're going to be spending a lot of time getting mobs near you, then Burning them into submission. You won't be herding huge mobs all by yourself, because your defenses won't stand up to it. But you can get smaller mobs and beat them down all by yourself, while an Invuln tank would probably need some help from a damage dealer.

TYVM I found 'Ranged Tanking' very helpful. I used to shy away from teaming with scrappers because of a heavy melee or AoE attack. Another helpful pearl is when teaming with a controller, the only aggro'r should be the tank. It helps the hold.

"Ranged Tanking" is one of my offense-heavy Invuln Tanker's main tactics. When I can't stand up to a full group of bad guys, I don't try, I just run around them, auto-Taunting, and slugging random targets as I go. The tactic should work even better for Fire and Ice Tankers, since they have field powers that can auto-attack.

As I've said before, tanking is not about taking damage, it's about drawing aggro. If you can hold aggro, whether you are a Tanker, Scrapper, Defender, or Controller, you can tank. A Tanker is the best at tanking because it has the tools to help it do that, as well as enough defense to make it easier. But a good strategy can make up for a lack of defense.

Skull Face - As your post was in November and now it's March, I'll assume you found that some mobs just don't let go when a Blaster opens up. I semi-retired my Blaster when a single shot to a Minion resulted in a Blaster-Hunt by the Lesser Devoureds and Sentries who ignored our Tankers and Scrappers...

Jade Dragon - Great Observation on Tanking w/other ATs. My Scrapper can "Tanker Light" for some groups. As SR, many of the baddies simply can't hit me. However, I have to keep a much closer eye on the numbers of bad guys, 'cause some of them will hit, even some of the time, and if there are a horde of them... Yech. Also, I can't even pretend to *hold* Aggro when the Blasters lay into them. So it's more of a controlled aggro than herding for me.

As an addition to the OP's suggestion, I'd suggest an addition to the Herding Macro he mentioned. Somethign along the line of "Please let me get at LEAST two Taunts in and into INviniclbe Range before lighting them up, cause I'm not looking much in your direction. If you don't shoot, the Mobs won't be looking in your direction either..." I have a second Macro for "Cook 'em Boys." to let them know when to deal it. I time my single AoE and a Taunt to arrive just as the waves of damage do.

Good guide!

Good guide, useful.