Combat Jumping: Immob. Resist Broken?
By
Ageis,
Posted on: 2004-09-25 14:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Its hell hunting CoT in the parking lot in PI now. Complete and utter hell. And al because of this.
Probably because it was a bug (before) that was altered to be properly handled.
What's really unfortunate is that they altered this to work (as it should work, imho. I am guilty of the Run-Gun you could do with CJ/SJ. Fire and Forget.) but what they have not done, is lowered the mob-damage-trigger timers to an appropriate point for timeouts.
I have died, 4/5ths of the way across a zone, because an attack that the mobs were "getting ready to hit me with" was pre-queued into my system while I was escaping...
and it's not just the semi logical ones. (I could , forseeably, agree with say, a Tank Swiper's Grenade or a Malta Tank having some form of "Homing Device" ...
but being punched by an Elite Security Agent 1.56 Miles away, on a top of a roof, as i'm stopping to enter Crey's Folly?
Honestly, fixing the immobilization really lessens this particular issue, but not completely. (Acrobatics, Super Jump, and Super Speed, still allow you a fairly high chance not to be immobilized and get away.)
What's worse is that they *did* fix the Player Vs Mob aspect of the "Ultimate Long-Distance Attack".
If a mob runs outside of your range, even if the power is currently in process of attacking, it'll give you that happy "Invalid Target" or "Out Of Range" unless it's Melee. Melee Characters apparently are immune to the rules of physics, and can jump into the air with Super Jump, activate a power, fall to the ground, and flurry you from 50 feet. 
It's this sort of "Timing Vs Collision Detection" issue that irritates me on *both* sides.
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
I haven't seen how it's "fixed" at all, because it flat out doesn't work. As a DA scrapper, my set is the only scrapper without immob. resist so I need this to work to do my job. It drives me nuts how many teams I'll be in and it seems like the Death Mages just know to nab me with Midnight Grasp, and I have to sit and watch the fight go by, trying to hit things if they run close enough by me.
And when I run into things with immobs, solo, they really love to chain-cast them on me. I died twice today because of that trying to do a mission in the abandoned sewers.
I swear it's almost like playing DAoC again. Everyone point and laugh at the poor [Censored] who rolled a meleer. PvP is going to be such a silly joke if this stuff is still broken on its release.
My experience doesn't mirror your own. I have a lvl 20 blaster alt with CJ in that build, and last night, I found myself held several times by stalactities against trolls, usually right after being stunned and forcing CJ toggle to drop. But I'd just tap CJ again, and be free.
Maybe you were talking about "resisting" holds in the first place? Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought CJ just gave you a way to break a hold.
-Sir Payens
lvl 50 Kin/Energy Defender
Infinity
CJ protects against immobilization, not hold.
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
[ QUOTE ]
As a DA scrapper, my set is the only scrapper without immob. resist so I need this to work to do my job. It drives me nuts how many teams I'll be in and it seems like the Death Mages just know to nab me with Midnight Grasp, and I have to sit and watch the fight go by, trying to hit things if they run close enough by me.
[/ QUOTE ]
Solo, I can't help you at all.
However, in teams, there's no reason Midnight Grasp should "stop you" unless you're in an apparently "bad" team. there are so many different ways to break the hold. Plus, getting Acrobatics also raises your ability to resist/ignore immobilizes, holds, and knockdowns (it doesn't specifically say immobilize, like CJ does. but on my scrapper with just CJ Right now (he's lower level) , i *do* get immobilized/held pretty frequently. on my blaster with SJ + Acro without CJ (since you can't use CJ and SJ at the same time.) I find that very *rarely* do things like Midnight Grasp, Stalactites, Bitter Freeze Ray, etc. hold me. The only thing that *does* get me on occasion atm, is Crey Protector "hold"... but if i pop a Discipline Insp before going into the fight, i can even resist that hold most of the time.
My point is more that I believe, personally, the resist for Immobilization was around 65-70% for CJ. meaning it gave you a really high resistance to immobilization. Now it's probably more around 35-50%. dramatically lowered (as I said, i have a scrapper who only has CJ right now. and he gets held pretty frequently.)
I dunno. I think it's more of a challenge this way.
If you haven't noticed, Poz and Geko have lately been on a witch-hunt for exploited powers, and exploits in-game. Missions no longer allow "Helpers" (High levels to sit in the zone out of team, to kill things in the event of an emergency)... You can't sideline a highlevel to power level someone.. etc. This was just another in a long list of powers that needed tweaking to remove the exploit to it.
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
[ QUOTE ]
Now, I respecced to it on my scrapper, post-Update 2, and I've found that it doesn't resist immobilizations whatsoever. Not on my blaster anymore, either. It's not fun trying to get by a group of CoT in the sewers and have their Death Mage drop Midnight Grasp on you and CJ does nothing. I'm just curious if anyone else is having this problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
Once. I was in a Malta outdoor mission when a sapper hit me. I tried to jump away (had combat jumping on) to escape before I detoggled from the end loss over time, only I couldn't, because I was webbed.
However, another time, I was detoggled and webbed, and I fixed it by turning combat jumping back on.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
[ QUOTE ]
If you haven't noticed, Poz and Geko have lately been on a witch-hunt for exploited powers, and exploits in-game. Missions no longer allow "Helpers" (High levels to sit in the zone out of team, to kill things in the event of an emergency)... You can't sideline a highlevel to power level someone.. etc. This was just another in a long list of powers that needed tweaking to remove the exploit to it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Combat Jumping had an exploit to it?
Pardon me, is this the Bizarro World?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
yeah, just like smoke grenade had an exploit to it.
it's percentages were simply incorrect, so it was abused as soon as it was realized "Hey, this is more effective than anything else in the game, and i *need* it to play."
And likewise, as it seems, any characters, in general, who rely on a *single* power to their character, instead of the character as a whole, are those people who need my tagline the most. 
look at every whining "nerf" post...
"Oh no, they nerfed smoke! oh no, they nerfed Smoke GRenade! oh no, they nerfed Combat Jumping!"
They all focus on people saying "I *need* this power to play!"
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, just like smoke grenade had an exploit to it.
it's percentages were simply incorrect, so it was abused as soon as it was realized "Hey, this is more effective than anything else in the game, and i *need* it to play."
[/ QUOTE ]
What are you talking about?
[ QUOTE ]
And likewise, as it seems, any characters, in general, who rely on a *single* power to their character, instead of the character as a whole, are those people who need my tagline the most. look at every whining "nerf" post...
"Oh no, they nerfed smoke! oh no, they nerfed Smoke GRenade! oh no, they nerfed Combat Jumping!"
They all focus on people saying "I *need* this power to play!"
[/ QUOTE ]
Er, where's the swarm of people who need combat jumping to play? Seriously? I mean, please be specific about this so-called exploit that I must otherwise assume you are manufacturing from whole cloth.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
two people here so far complaining, including OP about how they "need" CJ to play their Character.
more will follow, i'm sure, as this follows along and explodes into yet another nerf thread.
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
Still working, my scrapper used it to elude some death mages' Tenebrous Tentacles in the Abandoned Sewer Network. Thing to bear in mind is that it might be a low magnitude resistance, i.e. it might not resist multiple tentacles, just one at a time.
Acrobatics is known to resist only one hold at a time, as well. If the enemies stack holds, they'll overcome your resistance.
Ive had combat jump since the game went commercial and in absolutely no case, shape, or form has it been considered to powerful by me (its defense bonus is hardly noticeable), or anyone who doesn't have it and watches someone with it play.
What bug in association with combat jump could possibly be compared to the caliber of smoke grenades problems?
Powerbomb please elaborate?
This is news to me.
the simple fact that it used to provide (Estimated) about 75% chance to resist an immobilization...
now it provides (Estimated) about 35%-40% chance to resist an immobilization.
so without "alternative help"... you're going to get held much more frequently with CJ alone now.
Prior to CJ was all you needed.
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
what's the post-update numbers for Acro now? I'm still consdiering respec'ing Fly out, but may say screw it and keep it and just use Boost Range if it's been nubby fixed. :P
Never heard of this. Where do you get these numbers from?
JM
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
no hard numbers, just visual estimates.
Prior to Update #2, my tanker would get immobilized maybe once out of every 4 times he went up against something with an immobilization power (Stone Cages, Fire Cages, Etc.)
Now, it seems like it's closer to 2 out of 3 times. It's very frequent to get stuck. however, he's a tanker, so being stuck really isn't a big deal. the mobs always come within swinging range.
but my Scrapper (who just hit 30 tonight. yay!) runs through Crey Ice Rays, (which Immobilize and in the case of Crey Protectors, Hold) and DA Shamans, and has SJ and Acrobatics, and doesn't get immobilized or held very often. Maybe 1 in 6 times on average.
Why don't you just convince the Devs to make you Level 55, that way, you'll never have a reason to actually PLAY the game? -To The "Oh No I've Been Nerfed" Folks.
[ QUOTE ]
two people here so far complaining, including OP about how they "need" CJ to play their Character.
more will follow, i'm sure, as this follows along and explodes into yet another nerf thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's not an exploit, that's people wanting to avoid immobilization status effects. Immobilization isn't even that harsh a status effect - you lose no toggles, after all. However, immobilization is very annoying - I hate it, and prefer to have resistance to it. I really dislike getting locked in a ring of fire and zapped from a distance, as I'm sure many others do as well.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Powerbomb,
I've been immobilized once while using combat jumping since update 2. It was in an outdoor Malta Group mission set for two people.
Also, status resistance works by magnitudes, not percentages. When the stacked magnitude exceeds the resistance, the resistance is overcome. So, in my particular example, getting hit by four or five web grenades at once probably did it.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Intel my DM/DA runs both acrobatics and cj. Yesterday with the help of a good defender, I was able to fight 4 +1 death mages in the AS without being held. Whether the defender gave something in addition to the resists those 2 have or not i can't say but i know i haven't been held. I will try it with just cj when i can to see if i get the same result you did.
got it. fix on the way.
Well, I guess that answers that.
JM
@Jumpman
Ink Jet - 50 DM/SR - Virtue
Halloweed - 50 Plant/Thorn - Virtue
Awesome! Thankya, geko!
Thank you geko Sooooooooooooooo much!
This is actually happening on live right now to me, but before Update 2, when running CJ on my blaster, things would try to immob him and he'd blast through the effect and keep on trucking. He's the only toon I've had any experience with this on, but it was pretty effective for him.
Now, I respecced to it on my scrapper, post-Update 2, and I've found that it doesn't resist immobilizations whatsoever. Not on my blaster anymore, either. It's not fun trying to get by a group of CoT in the sewers and have their Death Mage drop Midnight Grasp on you and CJ does nothing. I'm just curious if anyone else is having this problem?