Statesman, issue with your position on blasters

You're doing better than most scrappers at that level.

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you can debuff all you want pal...

I've been one shotted by

Tsoo bosses
Tsoo ancient spirits
Paragon Protectors (all flavors)
Tank swipers
Tank smashers
Greater devoured
Lesser devoured
Fake Nems
Rikti Chief soldiers
Rikti Chief Mentalist
RIkti Chief mesmerist
Knives of Artemis bosses...

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In groups you've been one-shotted by those things?

The same Radiation Infection that allows me to stand in front of a Paragon Protector and remove his endurance and then kill him at my leisure provides the same protection to you. In a group where others are doing their jobs one-shotting should be an incredible rarity.

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This list goes on. And by the way If a salvo from four nemesis Lt's drops you to 0 life at once how is that any different from a one shot kill?

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It being four shots. What did you do to get aggro from four nemesis is what you should be analyzing.

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IF the salvo does 1200 pts of damage and my life point total is 900 I'm dead.

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And had Enervating Field been applied that total would have been 840 and you'd have lived long enough to attempt to run (one reason I love Super Speed) and for others to attempt to heal.

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I realize this is a major p1ssing match between Moridin and Erratic, but I wanted to mention something, or rather ask about something that doesn't make sense to me.

If a SR scrapper is on a team with 2 defenders and they hit the def cap (probably quite quickly) why is it they would live so much longer than a blaster on the team, who probably is hitting the same cap? The HP difference isn't that vast, and SR has no res. Melee hits harder, and they can be hit by range while being hit by melee. I just ask because I've been on a team with a spines/sr and a Fire/Dev, with 2 defs and a controller, and I didn't ever see the Blaster fall to a volley one shot madness, nor did either of us SR. For the *most* part the team was pretty much blazing through mobs.

Is there some mechanic I'm overlooking? It would seem that on teams SR scrappers would be almost as frail as blasters, but if this were the case, nobody would play with them as they need to be in melee.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

The other thing to remember is that most blaster builds need to come within 20 feet to cycle their 3 primary single target attacks, or use their most effective AoE’s. At this range you can be hit by a melee attack in the time it takes to finish even a short animation. Exposing them to nearly as much melee damage as the SR scrapper is. They are however far more likely to be hit in if something attacks them in most situations.

So if SR needs help for the very same reasons why I there no recognition of the fact that blasters have it even worse?

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So bud. What nerf to your damage are you talking about then?

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I'm talking about proposed changes. I'd rather air my concerns before any changes hit. Instead of trying to fet the devs to rescind changes after they're already implemented.

I have absolutely no problems with the game as it stands now. I feel no need to solo huge groups of +1 mobs. But I don't want my solo capability curtailed. If I knew that would happen I would have rolled a scrapper. I don't mind teaming. If I did I wouldn't be leader of a super group.... But I still want to be able to login any time I want to and play with or without a team. That's why I bought the game... and that's why I'm still here. As long as that dynamic dosen't stray too far away I'll be playing this game for years to come. Cripple me, force me to team instead of allowing me to team for greater reward and comraderie..... I'm out of here. Not a threat..... because threats are pointless.... a statement of fact.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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So a blaster shouldn't use any of their AoEs in a group setting either, since that draws all the aggro.

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I'm talking about proposed changes. I'd rather air my concerns before any changes hit. Instead of trying to fet the devs to rescind changes after they're already implemented.

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So why are you giving me a hard time for saying, if the devs increase mob HP, I don't want Blaster AOE's to scale with them.

It doesn't even stand in opposition to your interests.

what did I do to draw the aggro? Attack. which is what I'm supposed to do. and do you seriously expect me to wait around for a radiation defender every damn time I want to play? I think you need to take a look at player demographics. On protector I've run into maybe 2 oir 3 Rad defenders. My Super team is loaded with defenders.... not a single one of them rad defenders.

Besides like I said. semantics. I've been one shotted by all of those things and yes on teams.... where was the defender?

Busy helping other players, missing with the targeted heal effect that steals from mobs, stunned like me, mezzed like me, dead before me, out of endurance... and in some cases just plain incompetent.

You're living in a fantasy world.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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So a blaster shouldn't use any of their AoEs in a group setting either, since that draws all the aggro.

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No, that is not true:

(1) The Scrapper is facing melee damage as opposed to the ranged replies a Blaster is going to receive. Melee damage is a lot larger.

(2) AE becomes considerably safer once aggro has been taken by others. It deals less damage than single target attacks (barring the level 32 powers) and so isn't particularly likely to steal it away from something being pounded on individually by another.

(3) In a group situation both fare better by being able to rely on the support of others.

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My Fire/Dev blaster has always had trouble staying alive. The warning in the manual about being aware of your surroundings at all times is exactly right. With those big rewards, come greater risks. If my defender takes on a group of 3 mobs (one Lt. and 2 minions), I'm pretty confident that if things go badly, I can still get out of trouble. But, when my Fire/Dev blaster takes on a group of 8-12 mobs, she better get it right, or she's dead.

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From Gemini_II. Are you kidding me? Are you blasters really that delusional?

This guy just compared the survivability of a FF defender vs 3 mobs against a blaster fighting 8-12mobs.

1)The fact that you can beat 8-12 most of the time is inconcievable to the whole Defender AT.

2)Things can still go badly against 3 mobs...even for a FF defender who specializes in defense. A blaster wouldn't even break a sweat in that match up.

3)Those 8-12 mobs used to be +2, +3 levels. Post I2 they're probably +0, +1.

4)Given you do win, you finished the fighter in under a minute. Comparatively the Defender probably spent a minimum of two minutes on 1/4 of the mobs.

How can you say we're even playing the same game. Blasters (as a whole) are so far ahead of many other AT's it's not funny. The fact that they used to not even need other AT's is an insulting.

Blasters are fun to play, and no one is out to ruin your fun. However adjustments need to be made so everyone can enjoy this game at high levels, which is not currently the case.

Edit: For blasters complaining about HP, you have the same as Controllers and Defenders, learn to control your aggro, we did. (Most of you knew how in the lower levels.)

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I'm talking about proposed changes. I'd rather air my concerns before any changes hit. Instead of trying to fet the devs to rescind changes after they're already implemented.

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So why are you giving me a hard time for saying, if the devs increase mob HP, I don't want Blaster AOE's to scale with them.

It doesn't even stand in opposition to your interests.

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I'm still waiting for you tell me where I said they should scale up.

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In practical terms the only time 2 defenders will cap you def is when you have 2 force fielders. That isn’t common. There are far more ways to cap a SR scrappers def. There is also a lot of consensus that SR needs some form of resist despite this.

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That is because the Scrapper is going into the middle of a spawn and facing all the aggro found there, something that a Blaster shouldn't generally be doing.

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So a blaster shouldn't use any of their AoEs in a group setting either, since that draws all the aggro.

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No, that is not true:

(1) The Scrapper is facing melee damage as opposed to the ranged replies a Blaster is going to receive. Melee damage is a lot larger.

(2) AE becomes considerably safer once aggro has been taken by others. It deals less damage than single target attacks (barring the level 32 powers) and so isn't particularly likely to steal it away from something being pounded on individually by another.

(3) In a group situation both fare better by being able to rely on the support of others.

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I'm really beginning to think you haven't played a high level blaster. It's true if I don't use any AoEs I don't suffer much damage. But then again I'm not outputting much either am I? What benefit do I bring the group if I don't bring half of my damage arsenal? Those ranged attacks can kill me in 1 volley. They get a return volley whther my AoE is going to kill them or not. I might as well not use my AoEs, you tell me to manage my aggro (not you but others in group when I die), fine I won't use my AoEs, let's see how much longer it takes to bring that pack down now. And now Statesman wants to raise mob hit points? No I think we are on a bad track with this. It's going to hurt the game.

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Edit: For blasters complaining about HP, you have the same as Controllers and Defenders, learn to control your aggro, we did. (Most of you knew how in the lower levels.)

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This comment is unacceptable coming from a non-damage dealing class. Don't even presume to tell us about aggro control. If we properly manage aggro, you wouldn't even want us in your group. We'd be a half-[censored] ranged scrapper.

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what did I do to draw the aggro? Attack. which is what I'm supposed to do.

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Don't be mindless. It is more than just your attack, its when you attacked and some other factors that come into play. You lead the attack on the spawn with Fireball? Or did you wait until the Tanker had run forward and Provoked?

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and do you seriously expect me to wait around for a radiation defender every damn time I want to play?

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No, I expect that in a group you will rely on other's abilities to stay alive, not mindless go charging in. Don't attempt to twist my words that way.

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I think you need to take a look at player demographics. On protector I've run into maybe 2 oir 3 Rad defenders.

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Almost any Defender other than an Empathy one can provide you protections of various sorts. Force Field is very good at keeping people from getting hit. Kinetics is flawless at keeping things from getting to melee range. Storm Summoning? Barrier to passage and reduced range keeps melee and ranged shots from being as much of a threat. And that is not all the other types than Emapthy nor all those types can do. And the abilities are duplicated by Controllers (though in a weaker way).

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My Super team is loaded with defenders.... not a single one of them rad defenders.

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Let me guess. . .a bunch of Empathy types no doubt. (*grumbles*)

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Besides like I said. semantics. I've been one shotted by all of those things and yes on teams.... where was the defender?

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Where you left him.

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Busy helping other players, missing with the targeted heal effect that steals from mobs, stunned like me, mezzed like me, dead before me, out of endurance... and in some cases just plain incompetent.

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He he is mezzed with you and dead like you then your claims of being the first one down don't stand up--you've got company that is dying just as quickly as you are.

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Or did you wait until the Tanker had run forward and Provoked?

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Do you want only group with a provoke tanker to succeed? Great, here we come EQ Tanker, Mezzer, Healer.

Statesman, how is AOE dmg still broken? After smoke nade was fixed, us popular fire/dev blasters can no longer own a whole group without a team... if I ae a group, im dead! As an experiment I went to peregrine and stood amongst some white or yellow nemesis...

I planted my turret first, actually, then teleported in the middle of them all... i planted a mine and then inferno'd and they all died, but so did i

Pre smoke nerf, i could do that all the time wihtout fear of death... I think the problem fixed itself. Without smoke nade, there is no longer a reason for us to use ae's all the time - i find im using them less now after issue 2 because I dont want to die.

If you haven't played a blaster that is 35+ since update two, you will have to put up some evidence to support your opinions. The game has drastically changed since the patch. Its not about SG. Its about game design. Let me give the current situation;

1) Blasters have no intrinsic defenses. They are all toggles, without exception.
2) Blasters have the lowest hitpoints (tied, I know).
3) Blasters are the most likely to gather aggro via aggression (irrelevent for soloers)
4) Holds have been increased across the board, insanely in some cases.
5) The number of bosses and liets/ group in missions and especially in trials has increased.
6) There are a number of bosses that can single hit you if they are above your level;
6a) Every boss can either stun you or kill you with two hits, with the occasional three hit from devoured.
7) Our major defense - fighting - is scaled down compared to others.

So, you combine these together, and you get this sentance;

When a blaster solo, he cannot take on bosses, cannot survive a single hold and he cannot find many groups that does not have one or the other. Blasters are now support units. Just like 8 defenders working together can hunt together, so can a bunch of blaster - overwhelming aggressiveness, iow - but individually, the extent of our fighting comes down to using up disciplines like candy.

Its true, there are some builds that can handle this. A max/min build of /dev can get their defense pretty high (46.3% and 33% res). That means to live, we merely have to not get hit with a stun (occuring 11% of the time with liets, 19% with bosses) which take 3 and 6 hits respectively (2 and 4 counter fires).

This gives us, respectively, a chance of living of 42.3% for bosses... even discounted for the times when we get lucky and don't get chain stunned or dead before that (that happened to me once so far, with a crey boss) and a 79% chance with a liet... though in those cases we are able to run away fairly easily, unless its a couple of them.

*Yes* if we hit the defense or resistance cap, we are good to go. We cannot do that, not even close. Any non-optimal non-dev blaster is going to have so little defense as to be paper thin. The utter maximum possible for our defense, which requires fitness (all toggles), is 55% for */Dev. This involves taking 7 powers and 30 extra slots, with no hasten. Reasonably, we can expect is 27% for Devices and 25% for non-devices, so long as we dedicate our power pools (ie: no variation in travel powers, ect).Talk about a force fed AT.

In conclusion, all numbers above are *optimal* builds. If you play a blaster in the 35+ area with a non-optimal build, you are going to be killing minions and maybe lietenants, a couple of them, maybe... Missions alone have gotten difficult for some mobs.

Here is an observation;

We did the lvl 34-44 Respec trial (freakshow). I was sidekicked up to 39. It was me and three scrappers. I was the only one to die... 4 times. Every single one of them was a 'one hit dead'. All of them were while I was stunned or otherwise immobilized (eg: Hand slap, FA). I have died multiple times to chain stuns by crey bosses (which takes a long time...) and I used up four disciplines after dying to finish him off... lucky there was only one. The next mission has three (ah, emp defenders,I love you) I have been killed multiple times going against the DE - fungoids are the bain of my existance - but they are the easy ones now, comparably. I no longer play, even single player missions, without my GF's emp defender (go clear mind!).

So, for what some of us are able to do (I can solo moderately effecitve with groups of 3-5 minions) have created a min/max character to deal with the situation. If you do not, then your chance of survival is extremely low. A 'fun blaster' is probably now on par with the good old mind controller.

Can anyone name a zone where you get spawns of only 2-3 minions at 35+? No? Alrighty then. Lets not even talk about the problems AR/Dev have with Lethal resistance...

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I'm really beginning to think you haven't played a high level blaster.

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Where have I ever claimed to?

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It's true if I don't use any AoEs I don't suffer much damage.

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Not something I suggested.

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But then again I'm not outputting much either am I?

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Does it kill you to let the Tank go forward and lock down aggro? Can you not wait the few seconds for the Controller to slap a hold on the entire lot? At NO point did I suggest not using your AEs, don't try to claim otherwise.

You want to talk about what you're beginning to think? Well I'm beginning to think you didn't read what I wrote and made up all sorts of things that you can't find a quotation for.

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Those ranged attacks can kill me in 1 volley. They get a return volley whther my AoE is going to kill them or not.

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Volleys from things that take lethal damage don't score damage on you. Several times I drop things and then their attack goes off. . .and I lose no health despite their weapon firing or their ball of fire landing.

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If we properly manage aggro, you wouldn't even want us in your group.

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Despite the repeated assertion, I can't recall ever seeing a Blaster kicked from a group for not dealing sufficient damage. For being reckless, yes. For being a jerk, yes. But for not using his AE as soon as possible? Never. For picking when it is best to take a shot? Nope.

BALANCE

When most of the player base are scrappers and they don't have any need to team. And when you have support AT's designed to SUPPORT the blaster it leaves a large chunk of the population with nothing to do

It isn't that much harder to be a baster, My friend has a 38 energy blaster and loves the new update. Blasters were the pampered favorites of the devs and still are. You are the fastest most powerful killing machines in the game, you just need to adapt your skills to the new changes and get back up there not needing any help whatsoever

I don't mean for this to be a blanket statement I know there are a lot of blasters not like that. But it aggrivates me that there are AT's that need a LOT of help and you are complaining that the game is a little harder.

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Or did you wait until the Tanker had run forward and Provoked?

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Do you want only group with a provoke tanker to succeed? Great, here we come EQ Tanker, Mezzer, Healer.

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No. I group with all sorts of people who have talents in locking down aggro or mitigating it. A Controller can drop a wide area hold and gee, you're safe to AE all you want. A Defender can do various things to increase your safety as well. Doesn't require a tanker, requires you being a team player.

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Volleys from things that take lethal damage don't score damage on you. Several times I drop things and then their attack goes off. . .and I lose no health despite their weapon firing or their ball of fire landing.

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I am specifically speaking of my ATs (AR) AoEs which are all ticks. Flamethrower, Full Auto. Long animation times and tick damage. Thus they always get a volley off on my AoE. And again you are presuming we have a tanker with an AoE taunt or a controller in my group. Do you really want to go down the path of EQ and say that every group must have 1 of each AT to suceed? If you want to go down that path fine. But I've been in that world and I don't like it.

You got the wrong guy erratdork. I never said I'm the first one down.

I said I can be one shotted.

And for your information we have a grand total of one empath.

And the truth is I die more teamed than I do alone. When I'm alone I control the pace, I choose the target, I choose the battle ground, I consider my options. The reason I love playing with my super group? it's simple. I call the shots. And when I do we survive... because I'm an excellent stratagist, who knows the limitations of my team mates. I hardly ever take pick up teams anymore unless it with people from my friends list. competent people that I'm willing to follow. You just enjoy making stupid assumptions based on your own arrogance..."if you get quick killed it's your tactics" some times when you get one shotted... it's just the nature of the beast. High damage output=greater aggro. Low defense = dead blaster. theres a synergy in that. you can argue till you're blue in the face..."laff" and it won't change a damned thing.

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If you haven't played a blaster that is 35+ since update two, you will have to put up some evidence to support your opinions.

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My evidence is that I'm out every night in a group team with Blasters who aren't dying in droves like is being portrayed here. They stay alive and I know how my group works. Hmmm, if our Blasters live and you're not. . . .

I do not disagree with much if any of what you subsequently write. The key line being:

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Blasters are now support units.

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I'd say they are no longer overwhelmingly superior units in a group and have had their soloability dropped into line with where others are, but the basic idea is the same.

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We did the lvl 34-44 Respec trial (freakshow). I was sidekicked up to 39. It was me and three scrappers. I was the only one to die... 4 times. Every single one of them was a 'one hit dead'.

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So you went sidekicked into a group situation with a lopsided group and died on a mission designed to be specifically extra hard. How is this indicative of more than questionable planning? The mission is known to be more than run of the mill and that should suggest covering all bases not just loading up with damage classes that have no ability to deal with several of the challenges that you'd normally find on a mission let alone the challenges an extra hard mission is guaranteed to bring. Sleeps are currently broken by heals, but to your group a Sleep was as good as a Hold because neither Scrappers nor Blasters are known for their abilities to heal others. An Empathy Controller/Defender can break Holds, and a Storm Summoning Controller/Defender can immunize you from Sleeps and Disorients.

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You got the wrong guy erratdork. I never said I'm the first one down.

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Oh dear me, did I give you a reply? You clearly aren't deserving. . .I'll make sure that doesn't happen again.

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*** You are ignoring this user ***


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