Statesman, issue with your position on blasters
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Blasters do the most damage but can get hit with the least so there need to be other forms of aggro besides just damage otherwise the blasters are always the source of aggro or they are forced to use their smaller damage single target only and then what are they really providing to the group.
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Actually, single target attacks are stronger than AoE attacks on a per target basis. All things being equal. But if one has say Fire Ball 6 slotted and Blaze only 2 slotted then I see your point. However that is something that could be changed on respec or next time slots are available so that does not mean you aren't viable in a group. So using single target attacks in a group does not mean we aren't really bringing anything to the table. I use my AoE all the time in groups and the only time I get in trouble is when I use it at the wrong time. That is a mental mistake, not an issue with the AT.
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[censored] fei. you went after me then got pissed because I defended myself.
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Where, heph, did I "went" after you? Please provide a quote of me attacking you.
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you can't deal with it tough.
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Who throws the tantrums and needs to be bleeped on the boards?
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I could care less If they got rid of alpha strikes if they balanced our AT so that we weren't so damned dependant on them.
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Then why are you defending them as a necessary part of the game? Your posts would lead one to think that without alpha-strike you will be unable to solo. The only thing I've pointed out is that you (i.e. blasters in general) would be able to respec for more defenses IF the devs raised mob HP and did nothing else for blasters.
[ QUOTE ]
As for the improvement to the Other AT's I don't give two [censored] about when they happend. I was saying that the improvements came because players brought the Dev's attention to weaknesses in their power sets.
[/ QUOTE ]
Certainly. I agree. But you also were saying that these sets didn't have to re-roll or make new toons entirely, that they spoke up and were given such changes with no need to respec. Which is not true for several reasons. 1.) Many of those sets did get re-rolled or outright deleted. 2.) Respec came with the majority of those improvements. I was only asking if you though the boosts were unfair, which is a question, I wasn't telling you what you thought. And pointing out that there's no basis for being indignant and acting like somehow Blasters got/will get a raw deal.
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Blasters try to do the same and people like you flood our board saying we don't need improvements.
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Say WHAT?!?
Ok, if we're talking about the present. I will argue against Blasters getting boosts. Most changes didn't matter to blasters anyway. Besides this, just last night my Blaster was fine. Is he past 40, no, I concede that maybe the game will ruin him at that stage. But regardless, you've stated yourself you've found the changes "refreshing", that you haven't had to change any of your strategies. So don't blame shift this on me. Especially if we agree that blasters are fine now.
If we're talking about the future, I am perfectly open to ideas about how/what blasters may need to work properly. Keeping alpha-strike aoe dominance however is not one of them. So if that's your plan, I'm against it because it breaks the game. I haven't heard many theoretical ideas on this thread, most of what I've heard is complaints that don't take into account what other AT's deal with. And my defense power pool suggestions were ideas that may make Blasters viable in the solo game if there is no immediate boost to blasters when theoretical mob changes happen.
How am I keeping an AT that I play down again?
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I disagree. Our secondaries are gimped, and our AT is unbalanced.
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You just said a page back or so that you weren't gimped.
Listen, you play a scrapper, or so you say, you should realize that for how lame Blaster 2nds are to Blasters, they are amazingly good in general. Most if not all Scrappers would gladly take them in place of their primes.
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If people want us toned down we need something to balance out the other end.
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I agree with an amendment. If the toning simply puts the general AT on par with the general other AT's, something on the other end is not necessarily needed. It would depend entirely on what's changed though.
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if you want to attack someone go after the people who want your AT nerfed so that we all suck equally.
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I never attacked anyone, so I don't know what to tell you about that. What was the nasty thing I said? "Cry me a river"? Which was directed to somebody else, and not that mean. Or is it the fact that I don't agree with you about everything you write?
I play three AT's. I've no interest in seeing any of them become unplayable. Certainly the Scrapper has had the most play, but tankers pre-patch were slow as hell, now they're just slow, so he was shelved for a while.
Notice how I don't use aggressive language and insults with you, I'd like to see you rise to that in the future.
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I use my AoE all the time in groups and the only time I get in trouble is when I use it at the wrong time. That is a mental mistake, not an issue with the AT.
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When I say it, some people want to crawl up my butt for doing it with another AT or not being particularly high level on my blaster, but what are you going to do when a level 50 blaster says the same thing?
No doubt more statements about how "logic" doesn't apply. . .which when you get down to it seems to be true.
Under construction
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Interesting mythology. Dies faster than help can arrive? Most of the Defender primaries are designed to provide help before the first shot is fired. And Controllers are designed to prevent the mob from even getting a chance to strike back. This is group dynamic here and yet you continue to paint the matter as if the Blaster is the only one using his abilities. Let me suggest that you find better groups to join.
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Lol play a blaster to a meaningful level before you comment. If the tank is slow with a provoke, a controller misses a hold, a scrapper draws more aggro then they want and have to unload it, a defender uses a targeted debuff on something that isnt held by a controller and the aggro is going to go somewhere it shouldnt be. 90% of that comes down on the blasters in the group, and when it does they often die even before a heal can be activated.
The bottom line is that aggro management on a good team is everyones responsibility, but the blasters are always the first to pay the price when it goes wrong.
oh shut it fei
My secondary IS gimped....
I'm not Gimped because I didn't take any of the gimped secondary powers for my final build. That means 3 good powers and a lot of pool filler.
And for someone telling me to calm down you're surely blowing all of this way out of porportion.
Take a prozac ......
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Interesting mythology. Dies faster than help can arrive? Most of the Defender primaries are designed to provide help before the first shot is fired. And Controllers are designed to prevent the mob from even getting a chance to strike back. This is group dynamic here and yet you continue to paint the matter as if the Blaster is the only one using his abilities. Let me suggest that you find better groups to join.
[/ QUOTE ]
Lol play a blaster to a meaningful level before you comment. If the tank is slow with a provoke, a controller misses a hold, a scrapper draws more aggro then they want and have to unload it, a defender uses a targeted debuff on something that isnt held by a controller and the aggro is going to go somewhere it shouldnt be. 90% of that comes down on the blasters in the group, and when it does they often die even before a heal can be activated.
The bottom line is that aggro management on a good team is everyones responsibility, but the blasters are always the first to pay the price when it goes wrong.
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Moridin Erratic is so obviously full of it, it's pratically pouring out of his ears. He's effectively saying that no blaster has ever died on his watch.... 
. Either he avoids grouping with blasters, or he's lying. Oh wait let me guess.... any blaster that dies on his team should change their tactics. Laff....
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Interesting mythology. Dies faster than help can arrive? Most of the Defender primaries are designed to provide help before the first shot is fired. And Controllers are designed to prevent the mob from even getting a chance to strike back. This is group dynamic here and yet you continue to paint the matter as if the Blaster is the only one using his abilities. Let me suggest that you find better groups to join.
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Lol play a blaster to a meaningful level before you comment.
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LOL, try playing with competent people and not grabbing aggro by having to get in the first shot.
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If the tank is slow with a provoke, a controller misses a hold, a scrapper draws more aggro then they want and have to unload it, a defender uses a targeted debuff on something that isn’t held by a controller and the aggro is going to go somewhere it shouldn’t be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please. A goodly chunk of the time I lead off the attacks on my Defender because it is the safe thing to do and the Blasters in the group are more than happy that the mobs, who are finding themselves Accuracy debuffed (Radiation Infection), are pissed at me and not them (and working at full accuracy). Follow with a 1s activation Slow (Lingering Radiation) and it becomes pretty safe to grab aggro whoever you are as on top of trouble hitting the mobs are taking quite a bit of extra time between attempts. 1 second later Enervating Field is applied and now even when they do hit they hit for 30% less damage. Not bad for 5s work where the first 3 don't count because aggro isn't had until then. As a controller the routine might be Radiation Infection followed by Gravity Distortion Field. . .complete safety to nuke away as only Bosses are certain to be free at that point and with Crushing Field coming they won't be free long.
But if a moronic Blaster would prefer to toss a Fireball, no wonder he dies.
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90% of that comes down on the blasters in the group, and when it does they often die even before a heal can be activated.
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Clearly never played with Force Field Defenders ramping defense so high that being touched requires an act of Congress.
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The bottom line is that aggro management on a good team is everyone’s responsibility, but the blasters are always the first to pay the price when it goes wrong.
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Again, interesting mythology.
Under construction
Kid, you couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag.
But keep holding onto my 2nds are gimped, maybe it will keep you warm at night.
Here's a valium for you, take it with some booze and do us a favor.
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Kid, you couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag.
But keep holding onto my 2nds are gimped, maybe it will keep you warm at night.
Here's a valium for you, take it with some booze and do us a favor.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're funny fei..... in the idiot way.
There's nothing to debate, you don't use my secondary and are therefore clueless about it's usefulness. Ask ANY fire blaster who's attained any significant level and he'll tell you the same thing.
So go ahead. make your case for the fire secondary. Any fire manipulator post level 30 will rip your arguments to shreds.
Oh, I'm still waiting for you to point out where I attacked you.
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Oh, I'm still waiting for you to point out where I attacked you.
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That post where you picked apart every damn thing I said and insinuated that in pointing out improvements to other AT's that I was saying that such Improvements were unfair.
really a dumb ***** supposition in either case because I've never maligned ANY Archetype. In fact I feel that those changes were needed.
Now I'm arguing the merits of my secondary with someone who's never used it.... That's a sign that it's time to ditch this forum and go to work.
First, the smallest fragment of our conversation was about blaster secondaries in a thread not even about that. Why do you stick with that tiny portion?
Second, the point was that the Blasters primes are so good that they make their secondaries look bad. However, to most other AT's those seconds would not be as much of a letdown.
You're gonna argue that? There's a whole Scrapper board I'd introduce you to. Then the tankers.
Well I'm sorry if you felt like you were attacked. I was not attacking you though.
I asked you if you felt it was unfair. There was a "?" at the end.
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Now I'm arguing the merits of my secondary with someone who's never used it
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I wasn't talking about YOUR secondary. I said that Blaster secondaries are lame for them, thus they mostly ignore them, where as they are NEEDED for scrappers and the rest of the AT's. But that's not necessarily a reflection of the Blaster 2nds themselves as it is the blaster primes. e.g. Many scrappers would take blaster 2nds as 1sts. Keep it straight.
Edited for being needlessly rude
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LOL, try playing with competent people
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Ha thats a laugh. I was one of the first blasters to hit 50 on my server and I have teamed with most of the top players on my server at one time or another. Perhaps I should go tell them you think they are incompetent. Sorry to break this to you but if you played a blaster the way you are outlining how you think it should be done you would be kicked from any good team for being a leach.
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A goodly chunk of the time I lead off the attacks on my Defender because it is the safe thing to do
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Frankly it doesnt matter who leads off. I have friends who almost insist that I lead off when we play our 50s because I can get us around the maps far faster then anyone else. I am also perfectly safe leading off with an AoE because I know that by the time they pick themselves up off the ground they will be provoked and held, and if they miss I will get the heals I need. If someone is a little to slow however guess what happens?
The same thing plays out no matter who is leading, if everyone does their job everything dies fast. If someone screws up then someone will die, and the people most likely to are the blasters.
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But if a moronic Blaster would prefer to toss a Fireball, no wonder he dies.
[/ QUOTE ]
As I indicated above your grasp of teamwork is, shall we say, incomplete. 
It is becoming readily apparent what your problem is though. You think it is the job of other to watch with appreciation the wondrousness that is you, and praise you for making all things possible. Perhaps I should acquaint you with an old adage, there is no I in team. Learn it and perhaps you wont have so much trouble breaking level 40.
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Clearly never played with Force Field Defenders ramping defense so high that being touched requires an act of Congress.
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Clearly you are not familiar with the concept of streak breakers
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Again, interesting mythology.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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I'm wasn't talking about YOUR secondary. I said that Blaster secondaries are lame for them, thus they mostly ignore them, where as they are NEEDED for scrappers and the rest of the AT's.
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What he is telling you is that blasters need secondaries that work just as badly as scrappers do the only difference is that blasters dont have such a secondary. This has been hidden to some extent by AoE alpha strikes and exploitable bugs. Neither of these will be around forever, neither is a substitute for a real secondary.
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But that's not necessarily a reflection of the Blaster 2nds themselves as it is the blaster primes. e.g. Many scrappers would take blaster 2nds as 1sts.
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LOL that is still the lamest argument going. If you are going to give an AT with poor defenses a melee power it must, be far more powerful than any melee power you give an AT with strong defenses. What you are suggesting is equivalent to suggesting tankers be given access to scrapper melee powers at full effectiveness. Actually I take that back it isnt equivalent, what you are suggesting is 10X more outrageous.
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Clearly you are not familiar with the concept of streak breakers
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Streak breakers have essentially been disproven to make more than several points of a percentage diff in ACC. It's even lower the better your DEF. Because the streak breaker increase the number of misses before it activates. So at really high DEF, it might take 30 misses before something gets the streak breaker, most things don't live that long.
Sorry to butt in on your debate, but just wanted to throw that info out there.
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What he is telling you is that blasters need secondaries that work just as badly as scrappers do the only difference is that blasters dont have such a secondary. This has been hidden to some extent by AoE alpha strikes and exploitable bugs. Neither of these will be around forever, neither is a substitute for a real secondary.
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Yeah? And I've been telling him I AGREE. When supposed changes take effect. He insist on being butt hurt about some post I evidently took to much time responding to though to hear that. The only thing I don't agree with boosting blasters in is damage and AOE to keep up with the mobs, it's why the game is broken in the first place. Well, one of the reasons.
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LOL that is still the lamest argument going. If you are going to give an AT with poor defenses a melee power it must, be far more powerful than any melee power you give an AT with strong defenses. What you are suggesting is equivalent to suggesting tankers be given access to scrapper melee powers at full effectiveness. Actually I take that back it isnt equivalent, what you are suggesting is 10X more outrageous.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not suggesting Scrappers be given Blasters sets. And I think it's retarded to give Blasters the most powerful melee attacks in the game. Better to give them melee cones with crowd control and low damage. Better to give them utility powers. So I think it's one of the lamest arguements going that the low DEF class gets the most powerful ranged and melee simply because in melee they're vulnerable. They already DO impressive damage, give them something more unique.
Also note that you're response gets a better response than his [censored] attitude and the conversation can continue and points are clarified. THAT is how I'd like to talk to people.
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Ha that’s a laugh. I was one of the first blasters to hit 50 on my server and I have teamed with most of the top players on my server at one time or another. Perhaps I should go tell them you think they are incompetent.
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They are if you have to worry about dying to the extent that you're portraying. So which is it, are they incompetent or are you exaggerating?
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Sorry to break this to you but if you played a blaster the way you are outlining how you “think” it should be done you would be kicked from any good team for being a leach.
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We haven't kicked any of our Blasters from team or group.
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Frankly it doesn’t matter who leads off.
.
.
.
I am also perfectly safe leading off with an AoE because I know that by the time they pick themselves up off the ground they will be provoked and held, and if they miss I will get the heals I need.
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is it going to be Moridin_, that it is utterly unsafe and you're risking death as the Blaster or that you are perfectly safe? Allow me to remind you of your own words:
"90% of that comes down on the blasters in the group, and when it does they often die even before a heal can be activated."
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As I indicated above your grasp of teamwork is, shall we say, incomplete.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seems you're being contradictory.
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It is becoming readily apparent what your problem is though. You think it is the job of other to watch with appreciation the wondrousness that is you, and praise you for making all things possible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Make something up for a personal attack when you haven't got a solid position to stand on eh?
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Perhaps I should acquaint you with an old adage, “there is no I in team”.
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Seems you and Punisher2020 need to learn that because the portrayal you give is of you doing all the work. Sorry, don't cast your ego driven fantasies on me.
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Clearly never played with Force Field Defenders ramping defense so high that being touched requires an act of Congress.
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly you are not familiar with the concept of streak breakers…
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly you're grasping at straws.
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[ QUOTE ]
Again, interesting mythology.
[/ QUOTE ]
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
[/ QUOTE ]
Main Entry: my·thol·o·gy
Pronunciation: mi-'thä-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French mythologie, from Late Latin mythologia interpretation of myths, from Greek, legend, myth, from mythologein to relate myths, from mythos + logos speech -- more at LEGEND
1 : an allegorical narrative
2 : a body of myths : as a : the myths dealing with the gods, demigods, and legendary heroes of a particular people b : MYTHOS 2 <cold war mythology>
3 : a branch of knowledge that deals with myth
4 : a popular belief or assumption that has grown up around someone or something <defective mythologies that ignore masculine depth of feeling -- Robert Bly>
See 2 and 4.
Under construction
I realize this is a major p1ssing match between Moridin and Erratic, but I wanted to mention something, or rather ask about something that doesn't make sense to me.
If a SR scrapper is on a team with 2 defenders and they hit the def cap (probably quite quickly) why is it they would live so much longer than a blaster on the team, who probably is hitting the same cap? The HP difference isn't that vast, and SR has no res. Melee hits harder, and they can be hit by range while being hit by melee. I just ask because I've been on a team with a spines/sr and a Fire/Dev, with 2 defs and a controller, and I didn't ever see the Blaster fall to a volley one shot madness, nor did either of us SR. For the *most* part the team was pretty much blazing through mobs.
Is there some mechanic I'm overlooking? It would seem that on teams SR scrappers would be almost as frail as blasters, but if this were the case, nobody would play with them as they need to be in melee.
I've been reading most of this thread, and I think you guys all have valid oppinions, and should DISCUSS (not argue) your points.
My opinion is that though I do not know much about Blasters, I do know that other AT's have short comings also! I think to expect to tackle large groups (more than 3 or 4) of mobs is unreasonable for any AT!
I also think that each AT (especially Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers) MUST use some tact, and strategy in dealing with ANY group that is above their level or contains a boss or multiple lts.
For Blasters (and any AT) to depend on their 2ndary powers was not intended. My interpretation was that the Blaster 2ndaries were ment to be used "defensively" when their primary powers were unable to prevent mobs from getting into melee range. To use a blasters 2ndary as a first strike was not intended.
That's like me trying to use my Defender's 2ndary powers to be a blaster! That was my original intent, but it doesn't work, adn it shouldn't! If it did then why choose a Blaster when you can have a psuedo-blaster with good defense? As such Defenders cannot use their secondaries to becoms Blasters, and Blasters should not be able to use thier secondary powers to be Scrapper. And the same should go for Scrappers using their secondary powers to be Tankers, and Controllers using their secondary powers to be Defenders.
The bottom line is that ALL the AT's have some weakness, and that weakness MUST be dealt with by the players inginuity rather than the devs. Superman could beg for his weakness to kryptonite be removed or toned down! He had to deal with it by being smart! The only devs have already provided the BEST way to deal with each classes short-comings, and that is to TEAM-UP!
We may need to examine the assumption that the Blaster hits the defense cap.
The SR scrapper pretty obviously is going to get there largely on his own if not all the way. The Blaster, at least as typically built it seems, doesn't bring any powers that raise his defense value or lowers the target's accuracy. As goes having a Defender raise his defense value, the choices are limited and within those choices there are limitations on tactics that come up. For overall protection Dark Miasma (just fixed in Update 2)and Force Field are the strongest. . .but how often do you find one of those to group with? Kinectics, Radiation Emission, and Storm Summoning come next, but each with significant limitations on how you have to operate to enjoy their benefits or with limited benefits (say Kinetics doing nothing versus ranged attacks and only doing something against melee attacks so long as the Kinetic Defender stands to block access to the Blaster via Repel). For a number of reasons best skipped over you're not likely to find a wealth of Defenders currently and not a wealth of them designed to buff Defense.
If you get one, you're golden, but outside of a fixed group of people who regularly play together it will be more of a lucky break when you get one.
Under construction
No it's not ridiculous that our melee attacks are the most damaging. considering the risks that we take using them. It's ridiculous that we have them at all.
Who said we wanted a boost in AoE damage? Did I say that? Did anyone say that?
THe problem with your argument is that this thread isn't about scrappers.
It's about blasters. The survivability of Super reflex scrappers has no bearing whatsoever on the discussion. My EXPERIENCE...tells me that blasters die more often than any other AT when teaming. And as any Tanker can tell you Hit points don't matter all that much in the scheme of things. Damage Ristance/Avoidance is where the money is.
of course mob behavior dosen't change...
what's different is the classes that popped the ball lightning. The defender that pops the ball lightning has damage mitagation to help him survive the consequences.....
The blasters has the ability to make the aggroed mobs dead before things get out of hand.
That's the difference.
If you're proposing that your time as a defender and limited time as a blaster qualify you to make any definitive statements about the nature of playing a Blaster in the mid to late game you're sadly mistaken.