Dev's Please please Let us abandon missions

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Well no lets look at this from a hero's point of view....lets say abandoning a mission comes with a penalty, either influence or xp for ... "loss of courageousness" or something...just to balance it out and prevent folks from quitting missions for bad reasons....I'm sure a group of folks stuck because of some baddies fell into a stairwell and you can't kill them cos no one on your team has AoE would be more than willing to take a slight hit to move past or get out of the mish...but may not be so likely to do so just because the conditions are... adverse

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This is quite a good idea, and with the addition of badges, a very doable one. Make it unpleasant to abandon a mission by seriously dinging the progress to a badge (and add negative bars to a badge if you haven't progressed toward it at all). So if you finish a mission that will result in gaining X amount toward the badge, have abandonning the mission result is getting 3X removed from the progress bar.

We'll still be able to abandon the missions, but the routine practice would be discouraged.

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a) only limited to 3 active missions

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Positron answered this once - they don't want people to get too confused by having lots of open missions. Some people would be able to keep dozens of missions straight, but they're going for the lowest common denominator, and they don't want to confuse the people that can't handle it.

Personally, I don't agree with that argument, but that's what he said. I think you should scale it to level - 3 available until L10, 4 until L15, 5 until L20, 10 thereafter. The numbers are just examples, you could tweak those, but you get the idea. This would prevent complete newbs at low levels from getting all confused by the multiple missions, but still allow experienced players to handle missions how they like.

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b) can't 'abandon' them if we choose so we can move on to others

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No idea why this is true. I've posted on this every once in a while since my beta days, never seen an answer that made sense.

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I wouldn't hold my breath.

I bet the devs are thinking that if they allow cancellations, that players would just cancel out of any mission that had something they don't like. (Villain group X, More than one boss, Archvillains.) I don't like it, but I understand it.

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And this is bad for the game... why?

Let's understand this... Players might (gasp!) cancel out of missions that are NOT FUN? Well we can't have that! This is a game. What in the world do they expect it to be FUN for?

No, this is a poor reason to be unable to abort. The only reason anyone would abort a mission is if for one reason or another the mission became non-fun. Aborting sure wouldn't help you "grind" xp faster, so I can't see the powergamers doing it. And as to being able to "pick and choose" what mobs you fight, we can ALREADY do that. I already refuse to accept any missions or do any story arcs with Devouring Earth in them because either they are bugged (auto-hits vs. SR) or they just have too high an ACC bonus to make fighting them even remotely reasonable. Nothing can MAKE me take a DE mission. Heck I can even take one, group with someone who likes DE, let them solo the mission for me, and get the credit without "firing a shot." So how does letting me go "oops I did not realize this was a DE mission -- I'd like to drop it please and never do it again" harm anyone or anything at all? Because I can cherry-pick my enemies? Everyone who street levels does this already. I guarantee almost every level 50 who got there by hunting (and not PLing in the train station) got there by picking and choosing wisely which enemies to fight and which NOT to fight. I do not see how giving mission-runners the same flexibility would hurt anything at all. IMO, it can only make the game better.

F

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I submit that you just gave more support to the point you were trying to counter by pointing out various ways that folks can already do what you suggest.

As for bugged missions, well, they aren't supposed to be that way. As a software developer myself, I know that means that they won't be putting in game-changing mods to get around them.

Bugs are to be squished, not to be used as an excuse to backdoor a scope change into the game engine.

Okay..

First, I think the 3 missions cap is due to server stress. After all, the server is storing the data on the mission's map and such.. so for each person playing the game, you could theoretically hold 24 mission maps (more when you get later in the game and a mission is a "chain" -- even more if it is a TF)... Now, multiply 24 mapdata segments by... oh, let's just say 100,000 players.. that's 2,400,000 potential map segments, that all have to be retained by the server and given somewhat unique layouts. Now, that load drops significantly when it is spread out amongst the servers... But TBH, I also feel that CoH has been far more popular than 100k ppl playing as well.

Also, you guys talk about the desire to take huge influence losses or such for artificially cancelling a mission, right?

But what happens if someone finds this sweet mission that is bugged such that they can get huge amounts of XP really easily -- say, a mish like the beginning of Synapse, where one can just visit a locale and beat up on some low-level enemies.. Then they cancel out of the mission after getting some huge XP bonuses for completing the sub-segments.

So yeah... If people could do that, then it would defeat the whole point. Now, if there was a huge XP LOSS (not debt) for cancelling a mission, then yes, I'd be fine with allowing the cancel of the mission -- after all, it is a consious choice, not a mob killing you or something... Moreso, it would leave open the option for a petition to return the XP -if- the GM's know that the mission is bugged.

Although I don't advocate anything that puts more impedous and workload on the GM's.. they are doing so much already.

Athenor

Dropping missions is a good idea. We'll get around to it. Much like a Mission Difficulty slider, it's a "sooner rather than later" feature.

OMG I cant wait to drop any mission with an AV in it!!!!

Those wouldnt be so bad if you could could have more than 3 missions, but when you see your numbers of possible missions slot one by 1 drop because there is an AV in them it becomes painful.

Perhaps rather than exponentially it's based on difficulty or level of mission, if you go exponentially and get a string of un-completable missions you're gonna end up broke.

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Dropping missions is a good idea. We'll get around to it. Much like a Mission Difficulty slider, it's a "sooner rather than later" feature.

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I dunno. I can just see it creating more problems then good myself.

Remember dropping a mission affects standing with that contact and possible
future contacts or missions.

Drop all the missions you want, you just might find you don't have any in the future.
With those goes the badges that come with completing those arcs, and the accolades etc.

/won't fix bugged mission issue, but...

Here's a comic book persepctive, for what it's worth:

In the comics, if you get a mission and can't handle it, you don't give it back to the contact - you find a hero capable of tackling it and either team with him - or give it to him.

In addition to dropping missions, what's wrong with allowing missions to be traded between players? If I can't pull off a mission and I can't or don't want to team it - why can't I give it to another willing hero? How does that hurt the game - he gets the XP and influence after all.

If they implemented this you could also get some nice networking going in your SG.

"Hey I just got a mission MADE for someone with invisibility, anyone want it?"
"Sure, my controller alt just got a kill XXX mission, I log and trade with you!"

Just an idea.

I'd love to do this on one of mine, BUT it is a mission that is part of a story arc. I do NOT want the story arc disrupted.

I would MUCH prefer that QA do a pass on mob and glowie spawns within all the tilesets (particularly the Orenbega tileset as it seems to constantly be bugged - real bugs that I've had to get a GM to fix (by pulling glowies OUT of walls), not just hard ones to find.)

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Remember dropping a mission affects standing with that contact and possible
future contacts or missions.

Drop all the missions you want, you just might find you don't have any in the future.
With those goes the badges that come with completing those arcs, and the accolades etc.

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Indeed, this is why it's very important for you to be "picky" when choosing your missions...and read the description before taking it.

If they allowed ppl to abandon a mission I think it should be treated as a "failed mission". You didn't complete it, the villians got away, and your contact is now pissed at you. I don't think you should get the option to do the mission again...the moment has passed, you abandoned it so you failed.

If they implemented something like this, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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Put in an option to cancel and it just gives people a way to artificially advance a story arc.

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If the devs are really worried about that (who cares, I say, but...) why not just make it a last resort that forfeits the entire story arc? That would be frustrating, when it needs to be done, but better than being stuck with missions we can't or don't want to do, sometimes.

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In addition to dropping missions, what's wrong with allowing missions to be traded between players?

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I like. Might be hard to code, and you'd have to figure out some things related to how story arcs work. But if they could make it happen, I'd love it.

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In addition to dropping missions, what's wrong with allowing missions to be traded between players?

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I like. Might be hard to code, and you'd have to figure out some things related to how story arcs work. But if they could make it happen, I'd love it.

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Fwiw, I hate the idea, unless it goes along with forfeits, in which case, whatever.

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Drop all the missions you want, you just might find you don't have any in the future.

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This isn't true. At worst, you can't do your next 5 levels of missions. I had a character that never did any missions untill lv.20ish, and then couldn't do the 1-15 missions, but was still allowed to pick up contacts leading to my 20-25 missions, just by talking to old contacts that I had no standing with at all.

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In addition to dropping missions, what's wrong with allowing missions to be traded between players?

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I like. Might be hard to code, and you'd have to figure out some things related to how story arcs work. But if they could make it happen, I'd love it.

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Fwiw, I hate the idea, unless it goes along with forfeits, in which case, whatever.

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Yes, it goes with forfeits. Only if they complete the mission, your contact is satisfied with your performance. You can continue the arc. If you forfeit, its the same as failing.

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I submit that you just gave more support to the point you were trying to counter by pointing out various ways that folks can already do what you suggest.

As for bugged missions, well, they aren't supposed to be that way. As a software developer myself, I know that means that they won't be putting in game-changing mods to get around them.

Bugs are to be squished, not to be used as an excuse to backdoor a scope change into the game engine.

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Yes but waiting for several weeks for a bug to get squished is not fun as a player. That mission is now stuck in your "mission queue" and cannot be removed in any way (it's bugged, so you can't finish it, and it can't be deleted from the queue). This is not a wise setup. I tried to explain this in Beta... the Devs are forcing themselves to be TOO GOOD here -- no game is this perfect and now it has to be or else people's fun is ruined. In an extreme case it is (theoretically) possible to have all 3 missions be bugged, and thus impossible to successfully complete AND impossible to clear to get new ones. And this is a wise situation... how? "Well they should fix the bugs!" I assume they're trying but must someone wait for weeks to get missions cleared off their list? That's silly.

I don't see how the fact that you can street hunt whatever you want has any bearing on why missions should not be clearable/deletable/removable in some way. Street hunting (other than Hunt X missions) has nothing to do with missions. Yes you can get around *mobs* you don't like by street hunting but you can't get around *missions* you don't like in any way, shape, or form.

Great example: I said earlier I refuse to take DE missions. Well guess what? Sometimes you get multi-part missions where the enemy changes. Part 1 is against the 5th, say, so you take it. Now you finish that and you find a "sample" to take to a contact. After that the contact sends you to a cave and you fight DE. Now, you didn't know you were going to fight the DE first -- you thought it was a 5th mission. Now it's not and now you don't want to do it anymore because you don't like fighting the DE... but you can't clear it. So you're stuck with it.

The devs need to realize that there ARE bugs and there are too many missions that are bugged and frustrating to players (a friend of mine had one that was bugged and he attempted like 5 5 times before a GM finally helped him on it), and being able to just say "*bleep* this mission" and wipe it off the queue would solve the problem entirely.

Fortunately from Stateman's reply they seem to be realizing it and along with the slider they may be getting at the things that need fixing in this game. Actually I think the slider may be all that's needed here. If I hate a mission I could set it to "grey mobs" and just blow thruogh it. No XP but I can clear it from my queue. Though that doesn't solve the bug problem....

F

We've been tugging for this since beta. Even with a INF penalty I would be for it. I have selected the wrong mission several times and really hated myself for it.

My controller got a Terra Volta mission at 20 and I can't enter the zone until 23 (I didn't know what TV was when I got it). Bit of a waste, wish I could just delete it with failure.

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Dropping missions is a good idea. We'll get around to it. Much like a Mission Difficulty slider, it's a "sooner rather than later" feature.

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Goodbye Perez Park at 7th level!
Goodbye Vahz missions of death!
Goodbye high level, "Why don't you just go to Atlas Park, won't that be fun? missions!"
Goodbye "Just killed 40 xxx?" "Why don't you go kill them again?"

Goodbye TAKING MISSIONS THAT MY SIDEKICK CAN'T GET TO!!!!

Huuruuumphh!!

I had to live with a corrupt mission from level 11 to 19 until a game moderator was able to assist me. Even then I was still required to 'complete' the mission before they would teleport the missing body bags to me.

The funniest thing was that they would not acknowledge the existence of a bug nor would they apologize for the inconvenience. Very bad precedent considering that PvP is bound to have a few bugs and balance issues.

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Those wouldnt be so bad if you could could have more than 3 missions, but when you see your numbers of possible missions slot one by 1 drop because there is an AV in them it becomes painful.

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This is one of the things I LOVED in the WoW stress test. In that game, you can pick up any quests you want, dozens of them (sorted by zone for convenience), and then you can drop them if you feel like it, and even pick them back up again if you feel like it. There's no penalty for accepting quests. Any time I saw one I'd just snag it up, because who knows, it might be convenient to do at a later date.

That's how you make a game that's designed to be fun, rather than a responsibility.

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This is one of the things I LOVED in the WoW stress test. In that game, you can pick up any quests you want, dozens of them (sorted by zone for convenience), and then you can drop them if you feel like it, and even pick them back up again if you feel like it. There's no penalty for accepting quests. Any time I saw one I'd just snag it up, because who knows, it might be convenient to do at a later date.

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Yeah even NWN lets you do that (well you can't drop them but you can take 100 of them if the builder has them in there).

One of the fundamental design flaws of this game (wow there are a lot of them) is setting the mission level on acceptance of the mission rather than on mission entry. That's poor design, especially at the low levels. I've had cases where I took 3 missions... one led into an early story arc so I followed all of that... levelled 2 or 3 times... and now all the other missions have turned grey. Wow isn't this fun!

Mission level should be set at the time of mission entry, NOT at the time you get it. At high levels this won't matter much except the rare cases where you level between taking a mission and doing it... but in the level 1-20 range it is a very important issue.

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That's how you make a game that's designed to be fun, rather than a responsibility.

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I agree with this point. The way missions work ends up being more of a chore than something fun. This is agame. It should be fun -- not a chore, and not tedious.

F

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Goodbye Perez Park at 7th level!
Goodbye Vahz missions of death!
Goodbye high level, "Why don't you just go to Atlas Park, won't that be fun? missions!"
Goodbye "Just killed 40 xxx?" "Why don't you go kill them again?"

Goodbye TAKING MISSIONS THAT MY SIDEKICK CAN'T GET TO!!!!

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I'll second most of these. And add... nevermind level 7... Goodbye to Perez Park missions EVER AGAIN at any level. I utterly hate Perez Park.

F