that_darn_lurker
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:It will also be harder to retain players. People have been bolting to other games, like CO, TSW and others. If they find they really like those games they might not want to come back.Originally Posted by Inquizitor
It's good to know they are trying. I dont really know how petitions and such would really help but I guess I've signed the ones I've found.
My worry is that the longer we don't have a resolution the harder it is going to be to retain devs. -
Its not so much a typo as it is a website from an alternate universe. That website must be from the Prime universe where NC Soft is good and just. Unfortunately, we must be living in the bad alternate universe.
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I'd do it. I'm an altaholic myself. The only thing that would suck is not having a wealthy toon to bankroll my new toons, but I was poor once and I can be poor again.
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Quote:I understand we both like COH. We're both on the same side here. I'm just saying others don't perceive the same value that we do. It should be obvious. NC Soft just told us how much they value COH. It's zero. How can you hope to dominate a market with a property that has zero perceived value?Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Oh, and don't forget that Nexon tried to buy EA. Yeah, Nexon take over EA. If anything, they'd want to keep CoH around as America is a market they're not already dominate in.
Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense at all. -
Quote:I'm not trying to be rude here. Help me understand. I'm really not sure what you're arguing about now. First you claim killing COH will help clean up their books RIGHT NOW. Then you bring up this which is a perfectly valid point, but it doesn't follow from your first statement. They don't have a product line, right now, to replace COH using COHs money. You can't claim GW2 is that product line because everything was lined up and paid for before Paragon Studios was axed. Its out and generating revenue, right now, and is completely capable of supporting itself. The only way your line of reasoning might work is if they were going to invest that money into beefing up their other games' cash shops, and they could somehow pull this off and get an immediate and substantial return within a short time period.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
The problem isn't they were about to go bankrupt.
Also, you can make money from killing off a profitable product line if it's replaced by one with a higher return on investment (or has better long term sustainability). You (whether 'you' is an individual or a corporation) always have a limited amount of money to allocate to things, so you're always make a choice not just of what to put it towards, but what not to put it towards.
They could be allergic to super hero MMOs with little perceived growth potential. Its already been established that COH didn't receive very well in Korea, NC Soft's primary market. Super heroes are very much a western cultural fixture that doesn't seem to resonate well with Koreans. There could be other reason's too, who knows. This is the squishier part of my theory. Killing off COH, or not, could go either way towards making NC Soft a more attractive buy.Quote:But none of that is expedited by killing CoH. Besides, Nexon already has a presence in America, including America-only games, so you can't really claim their allergic to western-only demographics. -
Goddamnit. What is that I'm feeling. Is it....is it...HOPE? Now I must be crazy.
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Quote:No, not really. NC Soft is motivated to sell because the execs and shareholders will personally make a lot of money from the deal. Nexon wants to grow their business by acquiring the games in NC Soft's portfolio.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
You're lacking a motivation.
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Quote:Nope. They made about $13 mill in Q1, so they're still profitable for the year. There's no need to make up for anything, even if you subscribe to the theory that killing off a profitable product line somehow makes money.Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
The financial reason (they were $6 million in the red last quarter, and killing CoH can help them make that up on their books, while long term GW2 will solve their money troubles) is far more logical. NCSoft could have killed CoH at virtually any time without impacting their bottom line much at all (it's tied with GW 1 as their smallest source).
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We know:
1) City of Heroes still made money
2) It is a flop in the Asian market
3) The PWE/Cryptic engine license rumor is false.
3) GW2 came out and is making money hand-over-fist. (I advanced a theory that this gives NC SOft the cover they need to shut down COH)
4) Nexon recently purchased ~%15 of NC Soft.
Upon further reflection, dumping COH and the subsequent "refocusing" looks like preparations for a buy out. Dumping COH makes sense because it cleans up their portfolio. Why have this pesky, albeit profitable, gad-fly game that only a few Americans play? And when the buyout goes through and NC Soft execs get their golden parachutes, they're not going to care about any ill will caused by killing COH. That will be some else's problem to deal with.
Besides, most people won't make this connection I've made so all the ill will generated towards NC Soft won't carry over to Nexon. People will give Nexon a pass.
And then Nexon will release a COH farmville game for facebook, developed in some software sweat shop in China.
Hvae a nice day. -
[QUOTE=DarkBlaster_NA;4380366]Quote:I'm pretty sure you and I won't paly it, but there are lots of people not exposed to the City of Heroes IP that would consider playing a super hero type farmville game. (Doesn't that give you the willies?)Originally Posted by that_darn_lurker
Don't be so sure. Brillig might be right, unfortunately. COH is still a valuable IP. They could create some simple facebook app or iPhone game. Don't think they wouldn't consider it either.
It would fail on release >_>
Nobody would download it, -
Quote:Don't be so sure. Brillig might be right, unfortunately. COH is still a valuable IP. They could create some simple facebook app or iPhone game. Don't think they wouldn't consider it either.Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA
They won't. Seriously.
For example, EA loves to trot out the long dead corpse of Origin Systems and the Ultima franchise - weekend at Bernies style - when they think it will make them a buck, even though it makes long time Ultima and Richard Garriott fans cringe. They don't care one bit. Just prepare yourself for NC Soft to do the same. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could. -
I didn't want to have to post something like this here because the wound is still pretty fresh for some, but here goes...
Hope is the other face of denial. Even if it were possible to get NC Soft to backtrack on their decision, they've already disbanded Paragon Studios and those former employees are already looking for other jobs. Plus, there's no guarantee any of them would want to work for NC Soft anyway. In other words, Humpty Dumpty has fallen off the wall!!!!
The very best you can hope for is a COH server emulator. I don't want to discourage you from doing that. In fact, I think it would be pretty cool myself.
You guys are going through the grieving process. I understand that. I'm grieving too. Everyone is. Some of us were more invested in this game than others. It will take some people more time to work through this.
Everyone take care of yourselves. -
Thanks for posting this. In the wake of the news, and given that emotions were running high, it seemed like a plausible rumor. Cooler heads should have prevailed, but we're only human. I hope Cryptic/PWE wasn't hurt by this and that people give their games a chance if this rumor was holding them back.
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Quote:Brandflakes over on the STO forum said the rumor was absolutely false. It seems like some ppl at Cryptic are taking this hard too.Originally Posted by UberGuy
For what it's worth, Zwil, Posi and BaBs have all said they don't think this is the case. Notably, BaBs works for Cryptic. While the conspiracy theorist in us might claim that makes him untrustworthy, I think it's worth considering that two Paragon Studio peeps agree with him.
It's not impossible, but right now, it doesn't seem particularly reasonable that Cryptic had anything to do with it. -
I'd just be happy if Jay (of Jay and Silent Bob fame) went on a NC Soft tirade.
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Was briefly considering going back to CO, and I started my "skeptical" thread over there. I'm completely underwhelmed by how that game has progressed in 3 years. As someone mentioned either on this forum or over at CO (I can't remember which, I've been playing forum tag all day), its like CO came out first and then they made COH later after they learned from their earlier mistakes. Its one of the most surreal things in MMOs.
But then I realized I already have a sub with The Secret World I haven't touched in a few weeks. I had to take a break from TSW because they are going through a drama bomb of their own, albeit not quite like this one. But the BS with COH has given me fresh perspective. TSW is a good game, and the disappointments they are experiencing now look minor by comparison. In time I think it will be a great game like COH is today. The game has a lot of great things going for it that they will build off of. I wish there was some way for ex-Paragon Studios employees to get involved with that franchise. -
I know he is listed as an Executive Producer for this game at launch, but what exactly did he contribute to the project? Are there any amusing stories or quirky anecdotes out there? Was there anything controversial about his involvement or particularly helpful? Was he involved with design decisions, or did you just help with the day to day operations and project management?
Any tidbit of information (or long winded story) would be most appreciated.
Thanks! -
Years ago, I ran across Knockback Man on Freedom. On this particular day, I think I was some kind of scrapper. It was a random PUG, and I proceeded to look over everyone's powersets and BIO. I look up Knockback Man and saw he was an NRG/NRG blaster. I thought something like "Oh great, this is going to suck. Enemies will be flying everywhere," but then I proceeded to read his bio:
Quote:Pretty hilarious, right? I forget how long we PUGed on this team, but this player was really good. Despite his bio, he didn't scatter mobs. He used his knockback to actually keep mobs bunched up, and we steam rolled mob after mob after mob. Afterwards, I sent Knockback Man a tell, letting him know that he was the NRG blaster I had ever teamed with. His reply was gracious, if not a little surprised.Backstory: I hate Blasters. I don't see the point of them and I don't see why anyone would want to play one when you can be almost as big a hitter with an archetype that can take more than one shot before croaking (Scrapper) or has a little more finesse than simply relying on brute force to defeat foes (Defender).
I hate Blasters for dreaming up daft strategies, causing team wipes and running away from their teammates yelling "healz plz" then complaining when they die. Above all I hate Blasters for knocking back enemies when you're trying to engage them in melee.
My goal with Knockback Man, therefore, is to embrace my inner Blaster by creating my most hated archetype with my most hated powersets, slotted for knockback distance of course.
I fully expect to be passed over for team invites and probably kicked from a few. But that's OK because before you judge a man you should walk a mile in his shoes. After that it doesn't matter; you're a mile away ... and you have his shoes.
Thank you Knockback Man, where ever you are, for giving me a great memory in this game.
*salutes* -
OMG I bet you were going to let us play on the moon, or better. Its so not fair that this had to happen to us.
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I probably goes without saying that NCSoft is going to have a great 3rd quarter because of GW2, and that shutting down Paragon Studios may even end up costing them money in terms of severance packages and lost revenue. But because of GW2 being so successful, any cost associated with shutting down Paragon Studios will be easily absorbed.
I think NC Soft just stopped caring about COH, Paragon Studios and its players, and saw a perfect opportunity to finally get rid of us. I think people are making the wrong inferences from the Q2 statements. I think the real story is that GW2 is giving them the cover they need to go forward with this move. -
I'm not trying to start any rumors about Cryptic, but the similarities to their situation are there for everyone to see. Maybe all it takes is just one bad quarter at PWI for Cryptic to get the ax too. However, they might be OK as long as Neverwinter Nights is in development. But if history is any indication of the future, NWN will fail to meet expectations, once again drawing the ire of the American MMO community, leading to bad things possibly.
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The real answer is always more complicated, I suppose. Maybe the financials justified keeping COH around, but they just wanted to move on from this game. COH didn't fit into their vision of the future so it was best cut ties now while the game is still in the black, I guess.
It makes me wonder about this whole genre. 5 years ago NC Soft made a bet with the COH franchise, and while it was a success on many levels, it wasn't a run-away success like we'd always hope. On top of that, it gained no traction in their beloved Korean market. For a Korean company that has to raise alarm bells.
I look at a company like Perfect World International that made a similar bet with Cryptic. Several years later, the market has changed. Promise has given way to reality. The market is oversaturated. By some accounts the market is shrinking. Heck, even a very good game like The Secret World can't draw a decent sized player base. If TSW was launched 5 years ago we might be calling it the WOW killer. As for Cryptic, players didn't respond to CO and STO like they'd hoped. CO and STO are profitable now that they have a F2P model, but how long will PWI put up with the fickle American MMO market? Who wants mediocrity, albeit a profitable mediocrity, when you can place your bets in newer markets, like social media, that hasn't even hit its ceiling yet.
It makes me wonder...
At the end of the day, maybe COHs only sin was to be own by a foreign company that had an eye to the asian markets. -
Yep, but I feel like they are completely indifferent to whether we adopt one of their other games or not. I don't think they really care what happens to our dollars.
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They....live?!?!
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Quote:This actually explains CO a lot. I tried playing it when it first came out because I loved COH and thought CO was going to be 10x better. What I found with CO was a confusing ability, stat, and role system that I couldn't make heads or tales of. I quit after my free month because the whole game mechanics didn't make any sense. Also, CO insistence on making everything super solo friendly meant hardly anyone formed groups, or stayed very long in them, as there was no real incentive too. I couldn't believe that the creator of COH could turn around a make a game that took everything great about COH and turn it on its head. The mind boggles.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Jack had a lot of great ideas and was able to get a great game launched.
His problem developed after launch when he got locked into seeing CoH as just a mechanized version of a table-top roleplaying game where, he, as the GM, kept the players in the dark not only about content and lore (which was mostly appropriate, otherwise, massive spoilers would have ruined the fun for a lot of folk), but also in the dark with regard to mechanics.
Jack thought that knowing the mechanics would make the game less fun. The problem with that is that the mechanics had a lot of flaws and imbalances and just wrong numbers. And Jack (and the powers team at the time, excluding Castle) would purposely turn a deaf ear to the players. On top of that, the players would find all sorts of loopholes and exploits which became nearly impossible to fix since... the Dev team run by Jack weren't in dialogue with the players and the players didn't know what the real numbers were to test.
On top of that, the playerbase would change the focus of the gaming habits (hating streetsweeping and using just the instanced missions for level-appropriate foes, e.g.) and Jack was slow to respond (if he ever did) to how the players wanted to play. He tended to be inflexible to what the players were supposed to consider to be fun.
This is why I don't currently play CO, and now that PW is running the show and spamming lock box messages everywhere I will absolutely never play CO ever again. I also don't play STO anymore because of the lock boxes (and the fact they screwed up space travel, but that's a rant for another day).