macskull

Check the PvP numbers. Even if the melee attacks do more damage (and some do) they're not worth the usually long animations and the risk of getting into melee with someone who is able to take much more of a beating than you are.

If it's still broken, you're probably right. However most of the people I know are respec'ing back into Hibernate so I guess that answer that question.

Oh yeah. 50-60% global acc is nice.

+HP, +dam, +rech. In that order, I'd say. With accolades you should be able to cap your HP fairly easily.

Figure out a way to get Flares in there even if it means you have to drop Blaze (Flares now does similar damage to Blaze, but recharges faster, animates faster, and has a longer range). You'll want to slot Forge for tohit as well as recharge, and you might be able to get away with dropping Thaw since its main draw is mez protection, which is worthless in PvP.

DB/WP will do fine against the fiteklubbers and bad zone PvPers. Against someone that knows what they're doing? No.

DB's heaviest hitters take a day and a half to animate, the combo system doesn't work well against targets you have to chase down, and RttC, which is a decent portion of your survivability as a WP, detoggles when you get mezzed.

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Since I have both a Nemesis Staff and Blackwand, I have ranged attacks. And really if you're depending on the ranged attacks on a melee toon for your bread and butter I suggest you go build something else.

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Depending on ranged attacks as a melee AT says more about the way PvP is balanced than it does your particular build. What are the top sets for melee ATs these days? Super Strength and Spines. It's not just a coincidence that those sets have at least one powerful ranged attack. It's also not coincidence that for virtually any melee AT PvP build, people will insist you pick up ranged attacks (i.e. Fossilize, Shuriken, Spirit Shark) from your APP/PPP pools. I don't really consider the Nemesis Staff and Blackwand to be reliable ranged attacks because they are completely unenhanceable which means you won't have much of a chance of hitting defense-based enemies with them.

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I'm actually suprised that the Devs haven't totally removed the ranged attacks totally from the melee ATs. Or better, why they have allowed them to have as much damage as we see. Their purpose, rather than resulting in critical hits was originally intended as taunt-loaded powers to pull or draw aggro.

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Thank $deity they haven't listened to you then. Complete removal of ranged attacks from melee ATs would make them worthless, because in a game where everyone and their mother has ranged attacks, if you don't have any, you can't compete. They did nerf the damage most of those ranged attacks do with I14 though (something like a 10-20% reduction depending on the attack) so you got part of your wish. I'm not sure you understand the purpose of ranged attacks on melee ATs though - they are there for flavor and balance, really. They all predate PvP, too.

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A melee toon's biggest weapons should always be up close, that means if you want to reach the ranged attackers you have to close the distance, but you already have the benefit of better defenses/resistances than ranged based builds, therefore you can close the distance in time to land attacks.

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*cough* A melee AT's biggest hitters are usually their melee attacks. Doesn't change the fact that in order to be competitive you need to have ranged attacks, whether they be used to finish off a runner or suppress someone so you can get in closer to actually use those melee attacks. If you're fighting a competent ranged player, odds aren't great you will be able to close that distance because - get this - they're trying to stay away from you too!

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Broadsword gives you the nice high damage you can use when you do close the distance on a target, just as it should be for Melee ATs. It's time for those spines and hurling boulders to have the proper place in combat instead of the over-used role they've had up to now.

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Over-used role? You mean getting kills on a melee AT that would have been otherwise impossible because you wouldn't've been able to kill those Blasters or Corruptors? And get this - even with the ranged attack damage nerfs, Spines and Super Strength are still the best picks. Good luck getting those kills on the runners when you have no way to attack them outside of melee range.

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That's one of the reasons I suggest MA and BS, for those who want to be true scrappers in PvP, not needing a crutch to feel Uber. A nice MA/SR in RV with Elude up is indeed a beautiful thing, able to close distances and land very nice kicks on anything in the zone. No crutches necessary!

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lol@u for suggesting ranged attacks on melee ATs are crutches. Why do you continue to post in this section of the boards when everyone has called you out on your (at best) complete lack of knowledge of PvP mechanics? Bringing a character into RV with no ranged attacks is like bringing a knife to a gunfight and expecting to compete.

Yep.

There are four or five teams getting rosters together. It's just a matter of working out times and hoping they don't try to pull any more funny PvP changes.

Most don't anymore.

Yeah, except no one uses Fire Mastery in PvP because it's pretty much garbage. Aim+BU+Fireball+Inferno should do away with the pets, then pop a blue and hit the MM as he's trying to resummon.

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Tabtabtab
jump into minion cluster.
Soul Drain.
Shadow Maul
Tune into /b

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Against a competent MM, you will be dead before Shadow Maul is done animating.

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Maybe against a fotm burst build I might, but I've seen positive results so far.

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You must not be fighting very good MMs.

What are you, DM/SR?

Yes but so does Practiced Brawler now (all melee mez protection/resistance clicks/toggles provide basic debuff resistance in PvP).

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Tabtabtab
jump into minion cluster.
Soul Drain.
Shadow Maul
Tune into /b

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Against a competent MM, you will be dead before Shadow Maul is done animating.

Yeeeeeeeah, except BS has no ranged attacks. At all. Zero. So it doesn't matter how much Big Orange Number you can crank out, because you'll still have to chase your target down. The damage nerf to melee ranged attacks isn't as severe as some people are making it out to be - on live Impale does around 160 damage, on test it does around 130.

Quickness doesn't do jack [censored] in PvP anymore other than a small recharge bonus (subject to DR, of course) because there's no such thing as unsuppressed movement.

Procs are still useful for slotting into any attack for any set, provided you can find the slots. The more procs you've got, the more chance they'll go off and the enemy will find themselves suddenly taking more damage than they should have.

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Conflict u r Full of Sh** u didnt fight me. u ust talkd to me a minute ago and ran back here to talk sh**.
Like i told Conflict this is a calout to stalkers and brutes. I dont use inspir because i dont eed to if im goin down im goin down. Man up! I feel if u have to usinspir in a 1on1 duel then u dont trust ur build so u need to leave the duel.

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I still don't get it. How could you kill someone 3 times in 2 minutes with a 15-20% chance of hitting them on every shot? Considering you'd need to hit him several times per kill, and you're only landing 2 out of 10 shots.

Did you just get more lucky than you ever have in your life or something?

That actually brings up an interesting point. There have been times when I was in PFF, but it seemingly did nothing. Don't know how to explain it, but I think Jimmay has also run into it on his bubbler, so maybe he can confirm. Like, I'm sitting there, nobody can hit me at all. Then some person comes and hits me with like 8 attacks IN A ROW. Considering the numbers, that is basically mathematically impossible. Then other times, that same person can't hit me at all. This has happened on several occasions. People that can't hit me at all suddenly landing 2 full attack chains of attacks...in a row.

Before I13, we could just assume that he popped a full tray of yellows, or FoN....but now because of DR, that's not an option. Popping 20 yellows is no different than popping 2.

I don't know....I guess this game is just a bigger bugfest than we all realize.

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I've had that happen to me on numerous occasions

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Not monitoring your hit rolls, eh? Random number generator is random.

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IMO

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I stopped reading there.

Teleport = no.
Flight = ok if you are ranged but slow and you can't really pursue.
Super Speed = still good but with the new travel suppression rules it took a hit.
Super Jump = probably best choice now, only thing to worry about is getting hit by a -jump power by a flying opponent or someone who is trying to get away from you.

lol @ arguing with people that have access to the changes before you do, gg gravix.

Well, in a fight against another player with phase, you might buy yourself a few seconds to get away. You phase, they keep attacking for a second before they realize you've phased, then they phase. Once they phase and throw an attack, un-phase, and it will take them a second to realize you've un-phased. So it won't buy you 30 seconds of immunity like it used to but it should still give you a bit of time.

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Is teleport un-[censored]?
Is there an I-12 button in the arena?

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No, and no.

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Cool.

And lol at the phase change. For years the noobs have asked for that...to have better "immersion" when they're role playing.

Sounds like the zones will become even bigger gankfests than now. Cuz that's really needed.

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Meh, Spec and I seem to agree on a few things about the phase change. We were pushing for a reduction or elimination of the "NoPhase" period now that phase isn't a "get out of jail free card" but that is (for now) unaddressed. Might add another dimension to team matches at least, where the outcome of a damage spike might depend on whether the buffers or the damagers phase first to finish or prevent the kill. It seems a bit buggy at the moment but I think it'll be interesting to see what kind of strategies evolve to work with the change. It's true that it'll piss off a lot of zone PvPers too, should be interesting.

It is fixed but I didn't mention that because 1) it happened late in beta, and 2) I consider it more a bug fix than a general PvP change - but I'll toss that in there.

If you're looking for a rundown of the changes to PvP (including arena options, new sets, and general changes), you can find my post here. It's a bit long but worth the read.

I didn't get as much chance as I'd like to test stuff during closed beta but I think it's a decent shot at getting PvP going again and I don't see anything too negative regarding PvP for this issue (in light of everything anyways).

Go look at the thread titles.