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There's nothing to get really. It's simply and idea or behavior that transmits through a culture... basically a trend. And much like trends, you're either into it or not.

Personally, I'm a bit tired of all these internet memes. I favor original, creative thought to the copy-paste nature of these things.

I agree that this could be an interesting discussion. However, we need some objective measurements to make it a worthwhile discussion. People's subjective experiences (including my own) with a powerset often lead them to a skewed perspective of what a set is capable. If we can make some objective observations of the single target, AoE, and pet capabilities, it will certainly help further the dialogue even if the value of single target damage, AoE damage, etc. are subjective.

While my testing will focus on damage (because I find it one of the most highly debatable aspects of control sets), I agree that it will not paint a complete picture; in fact, it will only address the question of damage potential when survival is a non-issue. However, that is an aspect of actual game play. As long as that is made clear to anyone examining the information, caveat lector.

As to the second issue, I welcome suggestions and feedback regarding how these tests should be conducted. I consider you my peers and acknowledge that many of you are as well, or better, versed in the particularities of controllers.

Unless Mid's and City of Data are in need of correction, Dark ranks fairly well in its activation times for both its single target hold and immobilize.

From fastest to slowest single target immobilizes:
Ring of Fire*/Chilblain (1.17 sec) > Entangle*/Shadowy Binds (1.2 sec) > Crush (1.33 sec) > Electric Fens (1.67 sec) > Stone Prison (1.93)

*Ring of Fire and Entangle both have higher base damage than Chilblain and Shadowy Binds, respectively.

From fastest to slowest single target holds:

Char ( 1.07 sec) > Dominate (1.1 sec) > Blind/Dark Grasp (1.67 sec) > Gravity Distortion (1.83 sec) > Block of Ice (1.87 sec) > Strangler*/Fossilize (2.07) >Tesla Cage (2.17 sec)

*Strangler has higher base damage than Fossilize

My opinion was similarly formed through experience with the sets and yet I've arrived at the opposite conclusion. I'm sure playstyle and secondary pairings certainly make a contribution to the difference in perception here, which is why I feel a more detailed analysis and opposing viewpoint are warranted.

Admittedly, this is a limited situation for the primarily teamed controller; however it's a valid concern for an individual wanting to solo against larger mobs. For those controllers, chipping away at the opponents health is the de facto method of defeating enemies with the AoE immobilize, a blast from the epic pools, and pets. At that point, we reach this question: Which is the greater damage contributor, Animated Stone or Gremlins and Jolting Chain? That's a difficult question to answer without collecting some data. By what margin does Animated Stone have to lead in single target damage to offset its lack of any AoE?

I wouldn't begin to suggest taking down single targets with the AoE immobilize and Jolting Chain. Like Earth or Ice, Electric will have to fall back on its single target hold and immobilize (plus epic blast) for that damage. At which point, Electric's faster activations than Earth's will contribute to a more damaging attack chain (with the added benefit that Electric's damage comes in a single tick rather than DoT). The scales for single target damage only tip in Earth's favor when Animated Stone comes into the equation.

Survivability is a factor, but it's also a factor that can be mitigated by both the primary and (usually) the secondary. Against boss rank and lower enemies it becomes much more trivial as they can be easily controlled. On the other hand, pet survivability is notoriously bad in Incarnate content, meriting extra value placed on a pets inherent sturdiness. I think it is noteworthy, however, that Fire Imps are considered the best damaging controller pet despite their lack of survivability.

At any rate, I think I may look into collecting some data on how much damage pets are contributing. I know this was done some time ago, but it seems like a topic worth revisiting given the introduction of new control sets and changes to Singularity.

Even putting aside consideration for proc damage and Interface, the damage done by Electric's powers does not differ from the majority of control sets. Its immobilizes and holds deal the same amount of damage as those found in Gravity, Earth, or Ice. However, it adds a second AoE damage option in Jolting Chain. While other sets have some down time between castings of their AoE immobilize, Electric can, with sufficient recharge, seamlessly chain Electric Cages and Jolting Chain for AoE damage. Similarly, if you look at the pets available, Animated Stone does deal better single target damage (and no AoE damage) but the Gremlins offer AoE damage via their own Jolting Chain and their damage aura. It's dubious to state that Animated Stone pushes Earth above Electric in damage.

I think there has been a long established mindset that all control sets are either low or high damage, and many fail to distinguish between high AoE damage and high single target damage. That's the crux of my argument. If we were to compare Gravity and Electric, Gravity certainly deals better single target damage but it does not have comparative AoE damage tools.

Yes, but that doesn't fall in line with the idea of Praetorians being subsumed by their Primal counterpart or vice versa.

Cole was also the embodiment of Zeus, which is why he uses the power Zeus' Lightning in the same trial. Does that mean he absorbed Statesman? No. He was simply Praetoria's incarnation of Zeus and Hades while Primal had two separate incarnations for those deities.

Um... nope. I'm not sure where this idea is coming from.

Tunnel System and the Team Mission transport would make this not so bad. No worse than Synapse, in my opinion. Someone on one of my globals finished it in an hour and a half last week.

I wanted to highlight this as well. There have been many times that I have received no warning, but been struck by Zeus' Lightning and the subsequent Flow Lightning.

Also, is it intended that the damage ticks persist after the lightning visuals have dissipated? I have encountered, and seen numerous complaints, about the damage ticks occurring where there appears to be no Flow Lightning.

Each light that goes out grants +1. Take them all out for +6. Assuming the PCs are level shifted at +3, they'll match Tyrant's 54+5.

There is concern that the level shifts granted by the light of the well is not buffing the entire league as intended. Some people have reported that it only has a target cap of 16, meaning on a full league someone is missing that buff. On a smaller league more people will be receive the shift.

The closest thing I ever saw to Lam farming on Virtue was when people clearing the streets, court yards, and turrets. Then we proceeded with the trial until completion. That used to be the standard run until speed Lams took over. I never saw anyone announce a Lam farm, in fact.

I'm color blind and I can distinguish between most shades or red and orange. Rusty reds and muddied greens are the problem colors.

They did. We're given token containment damage on trials AVs.

This is displeasing. Between this and the shaft given to Mind in Interface, Incarnate content is treating Mind control very poorly.

Quoted for emphasis. I was seeing this a great deal last night playing my Mind/Fire dom. It was suggested that I was outside of the range of the lightning flow. Unfortunately, that didn't prevent the lightning from dropping on my location. It was suggested that flying a moderate distance above the ground will help avoid them.

Additionally, there were times when some of the lightning flows were not being rendered. Other times the damage ticks continued after the lighning fonts vanished. Many times I moved to a seemingly clear location to find more damage ticking away. That could be a problem with my graphics card or settings. Overall, my frame rates plummet in the fight against Tyrant... worse than I've seen in other parts of the game.