Warkupo

Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn

Also adding: the buff amounts would likely drop because you would be applying the buff to yourself, which currently you can't do.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

It's not "opinion," it's what I'd expect to see from the dev team if they did change buffs this way, given past experience. Assumption, perhaps. Opinion is covered solely in the "no" and "it would make it less fun for me," not in the bulleted points themselves. (Yes, I know I added the "imho" at the end. That's the separator, where the opinion *starts,* with the likely rebalancing that would be done *before* it.)

In other words:
Expectation, based on observation: The strength of the buffs would probably drop for this "convenience."
Opinion, added as an aside to the mention of conveneince: I don't think the idea as a whole is all that convenient.

Edit:
Honestly, I think they'd be less likely to adjust the powers noticably downward (in either lower effectiveness or higher cost) with your "Just make them five minutes" you mentioned later.

Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn

You miss his point. If the powers are balanced as they are now, changing them to be more convenient for the players would likely mean that the powers would drop in effectiveness, in order to maintain balance. As such, his point about the powers likely being nerfed if we saw what you proposed is not that out of line.

Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill

- I'd put money down the strength of those buffs would *drop* as part of the price for the "convenience" (which, IMHO, isn't that convenient,)

Originally Posted by Elegost

Considering smoke grenade is a standard debuff (i.e. not nonresistable {like flash arrow}), and is subject to debuff resistance, this statement isn't entirely accurate.

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

Didn't mean any offense with that.. That snippet from your post made me laugh though, so I had to comment. I might even steal it and add it to my sig.

Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen

Wow, you summed up AR/Devices in one sentence! A primary with no Aim, coupled with a secondary that lacks a build-up power makes for a pretty neutered blaster.

Originally Posted by SuperSilver

On a medium hitpoint archetype, that 1.17 seconds is that much of a difference in melee range taking damage from the entire spawn.

Also, not everyone has Super Speed or Super Jump. Sprint (the only "travel" power accessible to everyone) isn't going to get you very far from the group either.

Originally Posted by DoctorWhat

I myself use hover on nearly every blaster/defender/ranged class I use. my Eng/Eng blaster soloed an Elite Boss (Forget the name, Fortuana in Faultline arc) by staying the hell out of range.

This is a LOT less useful in confined spaces, but when you can get some distance it's godly.

... Then agian, THAT'S obvious, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Rodion

I'd rather see the duration of these quick-recharge, low-endurance buffs extended to last much longer, say 20-30 minutes, or until you zone. Buffs like Fortitude and Adrenalin Boost would work as they do now. This might require that some buffs be toned down, or the stacking rules be changed to avoid unreasonably powerful multiple buffs.

In general I prefer single-target buffs because I don't like forcing the team to gather round: I'd rather target each recipient separately according to their desires. Many people don't like getting buffs such as Speed Boost, and having to dismiss dialogs constantly would be a nightmare (it's bad enough with teleport and mystic fortune). Adding potentially dozens of configuration options for the buffs you will accept seems unnecessarily complex.

One additional change that I would like to see, however, is the ability to right-click the icon of a "friendly" effect to bring up a menu that includes a command to remove the effect from the character. That would allow each player to dismiss an unwanted Speed Boost, much the same way that a controller can right-click a pet to dismiss it.

Originally Posted by StratoNexus

You are using game mechanics to decide how people would role-play react to psycho-bullet-spray.

I guess one could walk into a room where someone was spinning death and spitting out bullets and think, "Hey, that guy is 40 feet away. No way any of those bullets can travel more than 25 feet, therefore I can stand tall and take careful aim, no need for me to dodge."

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I don't see jousting a nuke to be very effective like that unless there's a corner...

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

Hmm... is there any PBAoE which goes through walls? If not, I would assume it's not possible within the current powers system. If it's not within the current powers system, then implementing this would certainly cause some frustration when someone is just 5 feet away, but the game decides that they're behind that 5" wide column.

Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper

The speed of sound in dry air is 768 mph.

The hard cap on Super Speed is 92.5 mph.

I'm not sure I'd call 12.04% "near".

Originally Posted by Warkupo

The argument that Fly has an advantage over other travel powers in that you can take short breaks while your character auto-flies to the mission is invalid due to the fact that with any other travel power I can simply *be* at the mission, use the bathroom, and return before any of the fliers on my team have arrived. I still operate under the same rules of time as the fliers do, after all. In doing this I also avoid embarrassingly returning to see my character has spent the last 2 minutes of his free-will trying desperately to move through a solid object.


The argument that Fly has the advantage of going in a straight line, thus arriving faster has yet to be true during my game-play experience. Save for perhaps Grandville or Terra Volta on a Super Speed character, I have never been beaten to a mission by a flier when we both started from the same point at the same time. I have often beaten the flier even when they had a head start. It is often not even the case for me that fliers can even travel in a straight line. Often a building gets in the way before I can reach a high enough altitude to avoid it, meaning I either have to stop going forward and travel straight up, increasing my travel time, or go around the building at a much slower speed than the others would have gone, and risk hitting another building I will have to go around as well, also increasing my travel time.

Assuming I *did* take the time to go all the way up to the ceiling, I now have to descend as well. If the area is particularly crowded I may not be able to simply descend down to the door. If I decide to just drop down by turning of flight so I can get to the ground quicker I risk taking damage, though I'll admit I do like to suicide drop and turn on hover at the last moment as a thrill so maybe you enjoy this sort of thing. I also risk hitting a spawn I might not have seen from so high up in the clouds when doing this, which, if I just plummeted to the earth like a rock, could wind up in a very embarrassing death.


The argument that Fly has superiority in certain maps is inaccurate as well. The Shard becomes far faster to navigate if you learn and use the jump points located all over the map. It does require that you map the area out a bit, but once done it is far quicker to use SS, SJ, or TP to quickly move to a jump pad and reach your destination in far less time. The only real advantage Fly has in the Shard is that it can be useful if the jump pad decides to be cute and throw you into the abyss, in which case you can activate Fly and correct your course. However, you can also just activate your temporary Fly power, which you can have indefinitely, so it's a moot point. The only zones where Fly has an advantage is Terra Volta, and Grandville, and only against Super Speeders. Teleporting and Super Jumping work just as well they normally do.


The argument that Fly is safer is due to being out of the sight of anything that could harm it is also in accurate. There are enemies in the sky, but they still travel fairly low to the ground, so I will not include them as a threat. Snipers, however, have proven deadly at times for the slower fliers who can take 2-3 shots before getting out of their range, only to clunk their way into the range of another. This is especially hazardous for squishier characters. Conversely, my Super Speeder is typically unnoticed and out of a sniper's range before the shot even goes off, assuming I am even seen at all. He also has the advantage of slotting the (admittedly expensive) stealth IO for perma-invisibility, thus escaping the attention of nearly every enemy in the game. I have also never died from landing in a bad spot with Super Jump, but then, I have adapted the amazing ability to adjust my camera downward so I can see where I am going before getting there. While on this note, every other travel power has the advantage in that it can move the camera without having to worry that it will ruin its’ path. This is not true for Fly (and teleport to some degree). Teleport has the same vertical advantage Fly does, except that it is also the fastest travel power available, so the snipers are a virtual non-issue. Additionally, a Teleporter can keep moving if it gets immobilized, and can be useful for escaping such a situation in a combat scenario.


Fly has a disadvantage in that you have to slot it to get it to an acceptable level which is, unfortunately, still very low compared to all others. Often I will leave Super Jump and Super Speed with only the initial slot until very late levels, if I slot them at all. Fly, on the other hand, forces you to devote slots to it early so that you can even comprehend getting to a mission in a realistic time, and even then, you will still probably just get teleported by someone faster than you. This problem is alleviated somewhat with IO’s such as Blessing of the Zephyr in that they add benefits from slotting a travel power, however, it isn’t as though the much faster Super Speed and Super Jump can’t also take advantage of these IO bonuses and be made even better than Fly by utilizing them, thus negating any real advantage this might have given Fly.

Fly has a disadvantage in its perquisite powers. Combat Jumping and Hasten often make it into my character builds for their min/maxing potential. Combat Jumping costs nothing, can be slotted for defense and travel, both of which offer very good set bonuses for very few slots, offers the same defense as hover, grants immobilization resistance, and does not disrupt the flow of combat. Hasten makes everything faster, thus allowing me to do everything faster, such as attacking, healing, controlling, whatever, at the cost of a moderate amount of endurance which is typically very easy to get around. It is also essential for perma-Hasten, obviously. Builds which achieve perma-hasten are typically the kinds of creatures that are running around soloing enemies designed to be a challenge for groups of eight and more. Recall Friend is useful for getting the flier to your door, and Teleport Foe is useful for dividing a dangerous spawn, after you've slotted it with some range enhancements to beat the aggro radius of the spawn, of course.

Air Superiority offers limited control for melee characters, but lacks enough power to typically stay on my builds, and becomes less useful as my defenses rise and my need for such gimmicks decreases. Hover is much better after the latest speed boost, and can be slotted similarly to Combat Jumping, however, it's endurance cost is much higher, lacks any res protection of any kind, and leads to Fly, which is still the worst travel power available. Unless your build somehow required both powers, for the interests of reaching the soft cap or fitting in another Luck of the Gambler, or concept, there's no real reason to take Hover over Combat Jumping.


Finally, everyone can Fly now with temporary powers, thus negating any vertical penalties the other travel powers may have had. Not only are they handed out like candy, but you can buy them if you do manage to run out of all the free ones somehow for next to nothing. Actual game play experience has also proven to me that despite the reduced speed of these temp powers compared to Fly, I am still capable of arriving to the mission faster than a flier even if I do have to utilize them. In fact, they made me *faster* than I was before, as I no longer have to go around, thus pretty much *ensuring* that I arrive faster than a flier, where before it might have been close. Additionally, if an enemy flies out of my range, I can just activate my temp power and attack them, thusly negating any advantage Fly or Hover had in a combat scenario as well.


I often feel that arguments against flight getting any sort of buff are based on purely on a conceptual basis, and lack any actual practical analysis. After having practically applied flight in various situations for the better part of three years, I can do nothing but conclude that Flight is the very worst travel power in the game with few, if any, redeeming qualities over other selections which are just as easily available, save, of course, for conceptual reasons.

Originally Posted by Lemur Lad

Too many people who don't want certain buffs, and I'd hate to subject them to a Yes/No popup every couple of minutes.

The only way I'd be behind a change like this is if we were given a robust system to accept/decline/delete buffs as desired.

Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint

what happens when everyone is out of range of the buffs? and the only buffs i can think of that are tedious to keep reapplying is kin buffs. and at a cost of 45.5, if you only get 1 person with it it defeats the purpose.